The Matrix

IMHO the real value of the movie " The Matrix" is that its message that humanity lives in a false reality and does not, for the most part want to see the objective truth about their lives, is made relatively accessible to beginning seekers of truth because of its film clichés. Laura expresses the message that can be found in "The Matrix" much more articulately in her post:

The Ethics of Belief
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2007, 09:30:06 AM »
Laura: Nobody likes to "feel bad," and let's face it, facing the truth about reality very often feels very, very bad. There is a passage in Robert de Ropp's book "Self Completion" that talks about this essential thing: the stifling of doubts otherwise known as believing in LIES.


Quote from: De Ropp
"The Work involves the transformation of a muddled, delusion-ridden slave
into an enlightened, integrated master. ...

The slave has no control over his or her life, is pushed about by external
forces, is at the mercy of casual impressions, a slave to habits, most of
them bad, a prey to credulity, suggestibility, hopes and fears.

Above all, the slave is a creature of fantasy. It inhabits a world of
dreams. It is cut off from knowledge of the real world by a mechanism in its
brain, the working of which generates delusions.

It does not know that it lies. It is a slave that dreams that it is free.
It is a liar that dreams that it knows the truth.

The Master has liberated himself from the delusion-producing mechanism in
his brain.

He is a dweller in the real world.

In order to enter this world, he has had to sacrifice his dreams. He has
dared to confront the truth about himself and about his fellow men. He has
been strong enough and cunning enough to escape from the prison in which the
slaves pass their lives. He is fully awake. He has seen the truth and the
truth has set him free. But he has paid a mighty high price to attain that
freedom.

Think very carefully. Can you pay that price? Do you dare to confront
reality? Can you bear to know the truth about yourself and your fellow
humans?

That truth is not the least bit comforting. Here we have several {billion}
human beings going round like blindfolded donkeys in a treadmill, driven
from behind by the stick of fear, lured forward from in front by the carrot
of greed {I WANT}. The overseer of the Treadmill, a great and terrible
spirit, has made certain that the donkeys do not try to escape. The spirit
has done this by the very simple procedure of hypnotizing the donkeys into
thinking that they are already free.

Can the paralysing grip of the hypnosis be relaxed?

For most of the donkeys it cannot. Any well-meaning liberator who attempts
to awaken them from their state of sleep will certainly be attacked, kicked
and bitten for daring to suggest to the donkeys that they are slaves.

Such a suggestion robs them of their fondest illusion, the illusion that
they are free and masters of their fate.

The donkeys much prefer to live in their unreal world.

It is easy to dream, hard to confront reality.

Given a choice between what is easy and what is difficult, the donkeys will
inevitably follow the easy way.

How does it happen that any of these slaves manage to escape from the
Treadmill and turn themselves into masters?

The answer is that very few really do escape. The overseer of the
Treadmill, the dread spirit that some call maya, some the Devil or the
Father of Lies, has many good tricks at his disposal. He has been around a
long time and understands very well the inner weaknesses of the human race.

The Spirit of the Lie knows that his ancient adversary, the Spirit of Truth,
can sometimes influence these hypnotized donkeys. It can give them a
fleeting glimpse of reality and awaken them for a moment from the fog of
dreams in which they habitually pass their time. There is, in the human
psyche, a will to truth, but this will is weak compared with its opponent,
the will to self-deception. The Spirit of Truth works through the will to
Truth.

But the Lying Spirit knows how to counteract and neutralize the will to
truth before it enables the slaves to liberate themselves from their
delusions. It does this by cunningly preparing a counterfeit, an imitation
of the real work, a fantasy Work.

It is in this fantasy Work that so many of the slaves that try to escape
become entrapped. The fantasy Work enables them to think that they are
working on themselves when, in fact, they have merely swapped one set of
dreams for another set. [...]

The pseudo-Work consists of a series of traps. Falling into any one of
these traps will suffice to bring the real Work to a halt. Some people fall
into one trap, some into another. Some manage, after long struggles, to
escape from the traps. Others never escape for the simple reason that they
do not know that they are trapped.

Who, then, can enter the real Work?

It is open only to full, dues-paying members of the SOT club. The letters
SOT stand for Seekers of Truth. [...]

The motto of the club: "I would rather know the truth, however terrible,
than take refuge in some system of comforting delusions." [...]

Although the SOT club is open to everyone, very few people become members.
This is because they cannot afford to pay the dues. To enter the SOT club
and become a full member, one must sacrifice one's illusions, particularly
one's illusions about oneself.

This is what most people dare not do. Even those who have escaped from the
Treadmill would often rather enter the fantasy Work and keep their illusions
about themselves than enter the real Work and sacrifice them.”


Laura: And so, because it is hard, because they might have to give up some illusion about themselves that they WANT and LIKE - illusions about things that they WANT and LIKE - so many people get stuck somewhere and enter a "pseudo-work." And generally, these illusions have most to do with feeding relationships, personal, intimate relationships.
It's easy enough to see the mote in someone else's eye, but what about the beam in your own?
 
"External considering involves making a realistic evaluation of another's situation and acting in ways which take this into account in a positive sense.
External considering is however not the same thing as being socially polite or considerate, although it may be expressed in this manner.
The key concept is to be aware of and to adapt oneself to the level of being and knowledge of others. Thus, external considering involves for example not talking about things which would simply offend others' beliefs or simply not be understood. External considering relates to an idea of general good will towards the environment, then in the sense of letting the environment be as it wishes and responding to its requests in a manner that honors its right to be as it will.
External considering is rooted in objective awareness of the environment. Its opposite, internal considering, is rooted in attachment to a subjective inner state, to one's own comfort of preconceptions or desires." - Cassiopaea Glossary on External Considering

Is external considering a *sometimes* euphemism for lying?

An interesting question, if for no other reason than the enormous amount of judgment humanity has towards lying. We are to be convinced by society in general that there is a strong MORAL argument against lying. That gives me pause for concern. The truth is there is no moral argument against the act of lying. That is precisely what Gurdjeiff was relating when he described external considering. For a person of conscience and awareness, circumstances sometimes DICTATE a lie is required.

The human training programs so evident in the world around us would have us believe that lies ARE black and white and that ALL LIES ARE BAD. The training programs range from George Washington's "I never told a lie" to Christianity's "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor". Of which this second program has been innumerably paraphrased and published as "thou shalt not lie" or "do not lie". Satan, too, is the "master of beguilement" or "the great deceiver" Just follow the black and white program and everything is fine. Simple, eh? Except we do lie. We lie consciously for various reasons of expeditiousness, politeness, and service to our fellow man. We also lie unconsciously for a wide range of other reasons such as avoiding pain. This does not stop the Powers That Be from attempting to subvert us away from using critical thought to determine when we should or should not lie. No, they are quite happy with us thinking that lying itself is bad because they know we will always lie from time to time. These circumstances create an inner conflict: our lies pits us against society and our need to "be accepted". It is not the act of lying or the lie itself but the intention and purpose of the lie that is important. By the lie's fruits we shall know.

The Powers That Be have a training program for intention as well: "The road to hell is paved by good intentions". A training program that subtly undermines the power of intention and purpose. External considering, on the other hand, underlines the supreme value of melding intention, purpose, service, critical thought and awareness--these are the tools of the Shaman, the raw materials of the Alchemist. To practice this melding process is not two-dimensional being it is, at least, three-dimensional being, laying a strong foundation for fourth-dimensional being. And notice that purpose and intent is UNSEEN while the lie or fact itself is visible. As we develop the external considering melding process we automatically develop our ability to see the unseen intent behind any statement presented to us by knowing the right questions to ask. Is this not what the C's have been doing with Laura? Teaching her how to ask questions? Facts are not important, truth and lies are not important. Learning is. Learning is contextual. Facts, truth and lies are content. Human beings are beings of context, not content. Content has the potential to confuse us, context orients us. Content can be "spun" any which way, context is the antithesis and antidote to "spin". Context is the mental equivalent of visual patterns. The brain is exceedingly good at finding patterns, real or imagined.

So, let's take a look at the question "What is lying?" from a mythological, archetypal perspective using the movie "The Matrix".

Does the Oracle lie to Neo during their first meeting? And, if so, what is the fruit of the lie?

The Oracle told Neo two critical things:
1) Neo is not "the One".
2) Neo will have to choose between his life and Morpheus' life.

The first statement influences the second. If Neo knows he is not "the One", Neo must sacrifice himself for Morpheus, so Morpheus may continue his search for "the One". We know from the film that, objectively, Neo is "the One", so clearly the Oracle lied, if we assume that the Oracle knew the answer, which is evident also in the movie--she "knows everything". Also from the movie we know that statement #2 is a lie because neither Morpheus nor Neo die. There was something else the Oracle said that is interesting. She said Neo "has the gift [to be the One]" but that he "was waiting for something".

Now, what else is at play here? The journey of the hero/shaman:

1) Neo is on his way to the Oracle, obviously apprehensive about what she might or might not tell him. What might he be thinking: "Am I the one? Am I not the one? Morpheus thinks I'm the one. So I must be? But am I? No it can't be? But how can it not be? No, I'm not." And around and around the mind goes, the content rules, not context. Note too that critical thought at this point is useless because it has no information to work with. A meditative mind, however, is of very much use (ie. no anticipation, desirelessness, intuition, calmness/relaxation, etc.).

2) Neo visits the Oracle and is essentially given the two statements above. These are the two of real consequence: Neo treats these LIES as FACTS. And, of course, the Oracle KNEW he would. If we assume the Oracle is a 6th density being, 6th density beings see everything, not just what they would want to see. They know the fruits of the lie, which is, of course, the reason they lie. The Oracle also knows Neo, much better than Neo knows himself. She knows what he will DO with these lies, knowing who he is. Which is, of course, the reason she lies to Neo in this fashion with these two particular statements.

3) Neo leaves the Oracle. Morpheus tells Neo that what the Oracle told him is "for you and you alone." I have to say that is awefully prescient of Morpheus, which is acceptable considering he is so close to "the One." Their consciousnesses must be aligned more or less because of their "group effort". But not consciously aligned, necessarily. Now, note that Neo, although disappointed and deeply troubled by the Oracles words, has information to work with. Or rather the information is now in a position to begin working on him, on his consciousness. He goes back to the ship.

4) On the ship Neo has the weight of the world on his shoulders. And he can do nothing about it. More waiting. Neo is in a crucible and its beginning to get hot. He is in a double-bind: he must tell Morpheus that he is not the one, but Morpheus told him not to tell him anything about what the Oracle said. Heat. Morpheus and Neo are in mortal danger. More heat. If Morpheus dies humanity is lost. Hotter still. And around and around the merry-go-round goes. A centrifugal crucible of white-hotness. And still no action is possible, no escape from the heat and confinement. Neo is getting a visceral taste of the price of waiting, and it is bitter indeed.

5) Morpheus is captured. Neo must now act. He has no choice. He either acts, seemingly to sacrifice himself for Morpheus, or the world is lost. He doesn't believe in himself, however. And this is the beauty of the Oracle's lies. She doesn't care whether he believes in himself or not, she simply wants him to take action, to stop waiting. And it works perfectly. "There is a way out of the crucible now," Neo sees, "Sacrifice myself, save Morpheus. Simple." He doesn't think of it as waiting or taking action he simply must do what must be done [for Mother Earth]. His ego dies and, along with it, inner fragmentation. He has purpose and has surrendered to it because the alternative is simply too devastating to bear.

That is the power of the crucible and it takes no prisoners: it is either total victory or total defeat--pressurized heat is an exquisite purification, as uncomfortable as it may be. Without the Oracle's lies there is no crucible.

Note that Neo now has context for the truth/lies, he is oriented, he knows all he needs to know ABOUT EVERYTHING. If he has the will, he can fix the situation, make it right. Yes, he will die (so he thinks), but that is acceptable given the stakes. So the purification has given him the will. There is no drain of energy and all his energy is feeding his will. Neo is immune from any form of psychic attack because his will is galvanized, immutable. It is by his will that this is so. No abridgement of freewill has taken place whatsoever.

6) Neo saves Morpheus and in the process viscerally discovers himself, his true nature: he IS "the One." If he realizes the Oracle has lied to him, it is of little consequence for he also sees the wisdom behind the words: the lies have brought him to truth, to himself and the knowledge of himself. The Oracle made it abundantly clear what her ideal was when she first met Neo. What was it that was engraved up high on a plaque on the wall? "Know thyself". That is her purpose, to show people to know themselves. The lies were a tool of the trade.

Now, if archetypes, denizens of 4th density, are propagated to 3rd density in the form of characters/roles, to what in 4th density do we apply the 3rd density concept of "story" or plot. Suppose we also assume that there is an overarching archetype and that archetype is "the Hero." In other words the Hero is the summation of all the other archetypes. Hence, Joesph Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces" thus indicates the limitless forms a hero can take both in the physical realm as a character but also as an archetype in the spirit realm. An archetype is a program, but the hero is undefined in this sense: it is a program but it is also not a program. Just like Neo in the "space between" of the second film. Is he a program? Is he not a program?

So what is the concept of "story" extruded to 4th density? The summation of all stories. There is evidence of the totality of all stories in an overarching "Grand Story Archetype". The concept itself is incomprehensible. Which is a clue. We are looking for something incomprehensible, because the nature of 4th density is itself incomprehensible, according to the C's, Castenada, et al. However, we can look at story elements, story concepts and see what we can learn from these. We could also say that these "story concepts" are the archetypes of the "Grand Story Archetype". Continuing with the "Matrix" example, what are the key story concepts?

Waiting (to die)
Questions / Answers with Oracle (6th Density)
Crucible Uncertainty (facing the worst possible outcome as a reality, with no escape - vicarious not yet a reality, allowing the crucible to form like a cocoon).
Crucible Reality (Morpheus captured, worst possible outcome--now a reality). Heat beyond heat. Pressure beyond pressure.
Death of the Ego
Sacrifice
Leap
Belief
Truth


And the Crucible Story Archetype has these:
Impossible decisions often involving life and death of loved ones, the world.
No Escape.
Fire. Pressure.
Purification
Surrender
Death of the ego


This "Grand Story Archetype" also has a tie into the "Dark Sea of Awareness" that approaches as a person passes. What does the Dark Sea of Awareness come for? Experiences. Our story.
 
Xerxes said:
The Oracle told Neo two critical things:
1) Neo is not "the One".
2) Neo will have to choose between his life and Morpheus' life.
[...] We know from the film that, objectively, Neo is "the One", so clearly the Oracle lied, if we assume that the Oracle knew the answer, which is evident also in the movie--she "knows everything". Also from the movie we know that statement #2 is a lie because neither Morpheus nor Neo die. There was something else the Oracle said that is interesting. She said Neo "has the gift [to be the One]" but that he "was waiting for something".

The Oracle actually never told him that he wasn't "the One". Rather the Oracle merely said as you quoted, that Neo "has the gift" but "is waiting for something" - his "next life, maybe?"

Neo then interprets this as meaning that he is not "the One".

Furthermore, Neo does choose, as the Oracle says, and does die, as the Oracle said would happen - it is only that his death became his second birth, and that he re-emerged into life (his "next life") with abilities unlocked.

So the Oracle never lied - but she knew on the other hand how Neo would interpret it.
 
Vulcan59 said:
I merged your post here under the movie, "The Matrix". :)
Thanks. I can see now where this should have been posted.

Psalehesost said:
The Oracle actually never told him that he wasn't "the One". Rather the Oracle merely said as you quoted, that Neo "has the gift" but "is waiting for something" - his "next life, maybe?"

Neo then interprets this as meaning that he is not "the One".

Furthermore, Neo does choose, as the Oracle says, and does die, as the Oracle said would happen - it is only that his death became his second birth, and that he re-emerged into life (his "next life") with abilities unlocked.

So the Oracle never lied - but she knew on the other hand how Neo would interpret it.

Good points. Okay, she didn't lie.
 
Xerxes said:
Vulcan59 said:
I merged your post here under the movie, "The Matrix". :)
Thanks. I can see now where this should have been posted.

Psalehesost said:
The Oracle actually never told him that he wasn't "the One". Rather the Oracle merely said as you quoted, that Neo "has the gift" but "is waiting for something" - his "next life, maybe?"

Neo then interprets this as meaning that he is not "the One".

Furthermore, Neo does choose, as the Oracle says, and does die, as the Oracle said would happen - it is only that his death became his second birth, and that he re-emerged into life (his "next life") with abilities unlocked.

So the Oracle never lied - but she knew on the other hand how Neo would interpret it.

Good points. Okay, she didn't lie.

She didn't lie, but she did mislead him. She said "I'm sorry, kiddo, I really am. You have a good soul...and I hate giving good people bad news...."
Becoming "the one", death or not, could only be considered bad news to Neo's opposition. She pretended, or acted as if his death, and subsequent rebirth, was "bad news."
 
Xerxes said:
Xerxes said:
Good points. Okay, she didn't lie.

She didn't lie, but she did mislead him. She said "I'm sorry, kiddo, I really am. You have a good soul...and I hate giving good people bad news...."
Becoming "the one", death or not, could only be considered bad news to Neo's opposition. She pretended, or acted as if his death, and subsequent rebirth, was "bad news."

I'm curious about when you changed your mind from your initial response above to this latest response. Just wondering about the thought processes behind it.

It seems to me that the Oracle wasn't at all lying. She was simply telling Neo what was best for him to hear at the time. In that moment of 'time' he was not 'the one' - he hadn't learned what he needed to learn to be 'the one'. It was only after continuing on, without expectation of success, that he gained what he needed to become 'the one'. Just my take of course.
 
anart said:
It seems to me that the Oracle wasn't at all lying. She was simply telling Neo what was best for him to hear at the time. In that moment of 'time' he was not 'the one' - he hadn't learned what he needed to learn to be 'the one'. It was only after continuing on, without expectation of success, that he gained what he needed to become 'the one'. Just my take of course.

I would agree. It may seem like she misled Neo, but what I took away from their conversation was she got him to stop worrying about whether he was the one or not. Like Morpheus said after Neo saved his and Trinity's life, she told him exactly what he needed to hear. He was allowed to BE himself instead of getting caught up in the "Am I or am I not the One" analyzing.
 
SAO said:
Cyre, you're watching your life like a movie. This is what we do, as mechanical beings. We go here, go there, do this, do that... we have various likes and dislikes, and just like little ants we're just going through the motions with absolutely no rhyme or reason behind any of it, we just "feel like it" at the time. You being a "social animal" is no different than you being sexually attracted to someone, or being hungry, or liking a certain kind of music.

Do you think being "social" is any more significant than describing yourself as hungry or sleepy or thirsty or angry or sad or excited? The fact that you think your being "social" is something that can be defined as a quality of who you are, or even a virtue, means you're fooling yourself. And you DO think it is a quality otherwise you would never ever bring it up - no more than you'd bring up that you tend to scratch yourself when you have an itch.

As mechanical beings we cannot just realize this and except it and continue to be mechanical. We can only be mechanical as long as we're still not aware of what we really are. You think you're aware because you read Gurdjieff and this site, but you're not, "awareness" is different than casual acknowledgment because it makes sense. Awareness requires active and conscious SEEing, only then can you say you are aware. But SEEing forces you to DO, and this is what we're so afraid of.

We're sheep. In order to continue to be simply a sheep chewing grass, we create rationalizations (lies) that we're more than that. That is, the sheep looks at the wool on its back and says "most sheep don't have as much wool, I am unique!". Then the sheep looks at the grass it happens to be chewing at the moment and says "I have unique tastes, I prefer this kind of grass here. I am an individual!". Then the sheep notices that it is in the same fenced-in pen as other sheep, and proudly says "I'm a social sheep, because I value cooperation, I like being with others, I am a team player!". Yet another sheep will smell something curious so it will step away from the herd to follow the smell, and suddenly when it notices it is away from the others it says, "I am a self-motivator, a self-starter, an individual that can take care of himself. I don't follow a herd, I am a leader, I know where I'm going!".

All just sheep eating grass and following mechanical urges pretending that they are not sheep, that they are not just following mechanical urges, and pretending that those urges are somehow "choices" or "qualities" or "virtues".

Then there is the flip-side to delusion of being more than you really are - we are attached to our own fears and "imperfections". Self-pity is the flip-side of self-importance, and is used for the same kinds of lies and rationalizations. In your case Cyre, it would be when you use something like "I felt like an outcast" as an excuse to rationalize any of your actions. You do "stuff", you have no idea why you do any of it, so you grasp for plausible-sounding rationalizations to try to explain the stuff you do. You still have no idea why you do it - but you cling to those lies/explanations because you WANT them to be true, otherwise you'd have to admit that you have no idea what you're doing or why, that you're just following mechanical urges without any deeper meaning or reason whatsoever. And this is exactly what those sheep are doing - they cannot accept that they are a bunch of sheep eating grass and absolutely NOTHING more than that. They simply cannot, otherwise they'd be forced to change. But they don't have the will to change, they are too comfortable with the lies, the truth is much too "painful" as it requires too much of them.

You cannot SEE and not DO. If you SEE you must DO. But DOing will destroy you - will destroy everything you "think" you are. This is a very horrible proposition to your mechanical self - which at the moment is all that you are. It is extremely easy to underestimate just how bad of a proposition it is, and how much power your mechanical self has over every aspect of your being - your thoughts, feelings, actions.

I think part of the problem here is you reading the cassiopaea website and participating in this forum. It gave you a false sense of security, you think just by virtue of reading the right things your awakening and SEEing is basically a natural result of that, that it'll just happen now that you found this place with little or no conscious effort on your part, without the battle and painful destruction of everything you are that esoteric writings tell us about. But it won't just happen, not at all, remember what Gurdjieff said, "consciousness cannot evolve unconsciously".

Wow, never heard it being so brutally analyzed. Hmmm, trying to apply this to myself.

What about me, what about the way my predators mind convinces me I am awake.

Maybe because my senses do function so I feel therefore I must be awake. I experience the world. I feel, I see, I can hear, I can smell, I can think - to a degree. All in all good signs that one is awake.

Ok in the esoteric sense. Hmm, awake to the multiple layers of reality. Of the illusion. Ok, I clearly dont know the layers. I think I know some but not all. Not necessarily through my own effort but through the effort of others who try and bring other people to awareness. Like Laura for example or religion, or the media or normal everyday interactions etc.

Ok, so as a conclusion I can say, Luke, my boy, you are hmmm somewhere inbetween asleep and awake. Why does it have to be black or white? Why cant it be somewhere in between! I like somewhere inbetween! Makes me feel better. I say asleep. Hmm, makes me feel bad. Clue. Really does make me feel bad.

For the sake of feeling bad, I will say I am asleep.
 
Back to the movie:

Did the ending dissappoint anyone else?

I thought the movie was great. I loved the first one. Loved the 2nd one. I wonder what the meaning was, when in the end of the 2nd movie, Neo was able to stop the robot machine in the real world! Wow, what was that about?. In the 3rd movie he could also see the enrgy fields of the machines when him and trinity were going to machine HQ when he got blinded...

However, the 3rd movie just made me dislike the matrix. Why did evryone have to die?? I mean really? Whatever happened to happily ever after? And is it me or didnt NEO fail?

His mission was: Free everyone from the matrix. Destroy the Matrix.

All he did was, fight agent smith, free acouple of people. Then team up with the architect to kick agent smiths behind as a deal to not destroy Zion!

Ok, clearly not the one. The one was an over-exaggeration of his abilities. He was just a guy, who could do abit more than his fellow man but ultimately couldnt do it all by himself.

I was doing abit of searching and came across this interesting dialogue...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1264976

His book, Matrix Warrior: Being the One, doesn't suggest that evil computers actually pump virtual reality directly into our brains.

He explains to NPR's Rick Karr that his book is a "thought experiment" based on the notion that this reality is, in fact, a dream world.

"If we act as if it is true, does that enhance our life and our experience? And my experience is that it does — that things start to make a lot more sense when we begin to entertain the possibility that we are, in fact, living in a dream world controlled by invisible beings," he tells Karr.

Our particular dream world, he says, is created by technology, consumerism, the media and other aspects of "modern" civilization that distract humans from reaching their full potential.

This idea is not new — it mirrors the 2,000-year-old spiritual tradition of Gnosticism, an early form of Christianity. "Gnosticism maintains that the world that we’re living in is not the ultimate reality," says Frances Flannery Dailey, who teaches religion at Hendrix College in Conway, Ark. "It believes that the god who created this world is not the ultimate god — there is a higher God, a transcendent reality."

In Gnosticism, the Christ-like redeemer brings the world knowledge. In The Matrix, that myth is embodied in Keanu Reeves' character Neo — also known as "the One."

The Matrix offers up a stew of aspects from other religious traditions, particularly Buddhism. Dailey says it’s not surprising that the film combines aspects of Buddhism with Gnosticism. "They pose humanity's fundamental problem and solution in the same terms — ignorance and enlightenment," she says.

In his book The Gospel Reloaded, Greg Garrett — a professor of English at Baylor University — says the action and violence of the film series may be the most effective way to draw in the crowds and communicate a spiritual message in a media-saturated world.

"Religion and spirituality are communicated to our culture by movies much more than they are by traditional venues of synagogue or church," Garrett says. "A really good myth does more than just create a symbolic world. It articulates the feelings that a culture already feels or believes."
 
luke wilson said:
What about me, what about the way my predators mind convinces me I am awake.

Maybe because my senses do function so I feel therefore I must be awake. I experience the world. I feel, I see, I can hear, I can smell, I can think - to a degree. All in all good signs that one is awake.

Ok in the esoteric sense. Hmm, awake to the multiple layers of reality. Of the illusion. Ok, I clearly dont know the layers. I think I know some but not all. Not necessarily through my own effort but through the effort of others who try and bring other people to awareness. Like Laura for example or religion, or the media or normal everyday interactions etc.

Ok, so as a conclusion I can say, Luke, my boy, you are hmmm somewhere inbetween asleep and awake. Why does it have to be black or white? Why cant it be somewhere in between! I like somewhere inbetween! Makes me feel better. I say asleep. Hmm, makes me feel bad. Clue. Really does make me feel bad.

For the sake of feeling bad, I will say I am asleep.

It is not about simply having theoretical knowledge of the layers of reality, or the extent of one's knowledge. It is more than that - it is about quality of consciousness and awareness. Is your awareness radically different in nature now? If not, you are asleep. As am I!
 
Psalehesost said:
It is not about simply having theoretical knowledge of the layers of reality, or the extent of one's knowledge. It is more than that - it is about quality of consciousness and awareness. Is your awareness radically different in nature now? If not, you are asleep. As am I!

Thanks for this. Didnt know it was about quality of awareness. Thought it was just about awareness. Thought all awareness had the same quality - silly. No, mine is not radically different aswell. Yup, still sleeping.
 
Am I the only person who felt that the closeness of the the ideas in The Matrix to the reality of things is spooky?

Actually, a few years before the movie came out I had an idea to write a novel and the ideas in my story were so close to the movie that friends I discussed my ideas with called me and asked if I had published it and sold the rights to Holywood!

The thing I keep thinking is that the movie was a form of disinformation deliberately made into a popular movie. The concepts in the movie are so repulsive to the average person that anyone who suggested that there was anything similar to what happened in the movie actually occurring in reality then of course they would be ridiculed. The concept is so horrific (as is the real situation) that it actually is a form of reverse psychology.

But the thing is, I had those ideas because all my life I felt like I was not free, I felt that the wool had been pulled over my eyes so I could not see that there was so much more to the world we live in. But if I am to share that idea with others it is denied saying that my thoughts have been influenced by the movie.

Just like in the movie I recognise from my own life that every time I got close to waking up there were always sensual temptations and worldly lures set on me to lull me back to sleep, just like the Woman in the Red Dress. I can even clearly identify friends who came into my life (obviously OPs) who tried to convince me to forget my deeper thoughts and just "enjoy life". I can see many experiences where I had to realize the truth that "there is no spoon" in order to move ahead.

Now I know why I have watched the film at least several hundred times!
 
If you use the search function on the forum, you'll discover that this movie has been discussed quite a bit.
 
Yes Anart, I know. I did that. But they were old posts so I wanted to start a new one. Sorry if that causes trouble for anyone. :/
 
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