The Matrix

abeofarrell said:
...they were old posts so I wanted to start a new one.

Hi Abe. I could be wrong but I'm thinking anart's post could just as well be interpreted as an invitation to find and bump an 'old' thread if you would like to add your thoughts to a discussion of the Matrix movie.

Seems to me, doing that would just help to keep things organized (as separate threads would probably be merged by Mods/Administrators anyway) and be more efficient for searches, thus externally considerate.

My 2 cents. :)
 
Bud said:
abeofarrell said:
...they were old posts so I wanted to start a new one.

Hi Abe. I could be wrong but I'm thinking anart's post could just as well be interpreted as an invitation to find and bump an 'old' thread if you would like to add your thoughts to a discussion of the Matrix movie.

Seems to me, doing that would just help to keep things organized (as separate threads would probably be merged by Mods/Administrators anyway) and be more efficient for searches, thus externally considerate.

My 2 cents. :)

Bud, I agree. That is why I said sorry.
 
Sorry for my lazy STS attitude. The moderators can delete this topic or merge it if they like.

I was too lazy to read hundreds of posts before making a relevant reply. I will be more careful in future.

Abe
 
Thanks, Vulcan, and I apologize for the inconvenience it caused.
 
A: Invasion happens when programming is complete...

I was thinking about this last night and saw connection between this concept and Smith(symbol for ponerology) taking over the whole matrix. And afterwards happens invasion of Zion by the machines. Also, when Neo speaks to Deus ex machina, he refers to Smith as virus that is infecting the matrix.

People that weren't connected to matrix(those who were awake/aware), haven't been infected by it. But they were still vulnerable to invasion by machines and many died. Zee, who was fighting for her husband Link survived, while the girl with short hair died.(symbolism of importance of caring more for others/being useful and of service to the universe?)

Human cycle mirrors cycle of catastrophe. Earth benefits in form of periodic cleansing.

According to signs, programming is almost complete, OSIT. We can also feel it, according to C's, and as well see it for ourselves in the world at large and people being completely asleep and clueless.
And, if we are to take symbolism of Smith taking over whole matrix literally, then it seems like there is no escaping the virus(being programmed), granted that you are asleep(part of matrix). We could also say that it is inevitable, which was also Smith's favourite quote.

C's told us about quickening of the cosmos and about external forces trying to interfere with natural process. I can say from my experience how easy it is to lose oneself in the hurricane if not vigilant. Lately, one or two computer games, or any form of dissociation or self indulgence was enough to threw me of course and back asleep(taken by matrix).

And yet I can feel that something is happening at increasing rate. Is it wave I can't know for sure. But I feel that time for choosing my future, even more then ever is now, and I can't make the choice if I'm not aware of it and in control of my being. That's why it's important to keep striving, working on self, doing what 'it' doesn't like and paying full attention while doing what needs to be done in each moment. And maybe most important of all is to network, in order to not forget the aim and yourself for that matter.

I know that what I wrote is what has been said again and again on forum, but it can't hurt to repeat it and I really needed to share my thoughts with someone.

So, thank you for the opportunity :)
 
Hah, interesting thread.
I recently rewatched Matrix 1 and the first thing that really got me again was that the last human city on Earth is called "Zion".
Why a name that is already laden with all kinds of associations?
Do not get it ...

EmmeYa
 
Recently I watched Matrix 3 that kick started some thought process of who is who and what is what question.

How Neo can be OHTER SELF of Smith ?.

Oracle's comment "In one way or other , every thing will end to night"

The end dialogue of Architect( 4D orion STS) to Oracle ( 6D) "How long the truce is going to last?" The oracle's answer "It lasts as long as it lasts".

Add recent C's comments about "Cosmo's will clean the mess" . recurring pattern of the world's "Falling into illusion and struggle for illumination "

It is already hypothesised here before that psychopathy ( shutting down of emotional center or elimination of emotional center or may be introduction of it too ) might have been introduced
from trauma of some specifies , this may explain other items like "Agent going out of control of machine creators".

If Smith is pathology, Is Neo the comet's ?. I am not sure whether this is already discussed or not.

EmmeYa said:
Hah, interesting thread.
I recently rewatched Matrix 1 and the first thing that really got me again was that the last human city on Earth is called "Zion".
Why a name that is already laden with all kinds of associations?
Do not get it ...
EmmeYa

This is a interesting subject. Zion, Zionists, Jews, semites , "the one" etc. are laced with layers and layers of deceptions which "Controversy of Zion" already addressed. But in the context of Matrix, still puzzles me . As we know original meaning of Jew has little or nothing in common to current day Jew or current day pathological zionists.

Reading C's comments peaks some curiosity

970531
Q: Was Abraham a Kantekkian or a derivation?
A: Latter. But, so are you.
Q: Were the Jews that were genetically engineered and then planted in the Middle East... what year was this?
A: 130,000 years ago.
Q: Good grief! Have they managed to retain any racial purity for that long?
A: No.
Q: Cayce talks about the division in Atlantis between the "Sons of One" and the "Sons of Belial." Was this a racial division or a philosophical/ religious division?
A: It was the latter two, and before that, the former one.
Q: When it was a racial division, which group was it?
A: The Sons of Belial were the Kantekkians.
Q: Well! That is not good!
A: Subjective... you are not bodies, you are souls.
Q: You said that there is a group with whom you have been in contact since they were on Kantek. Is this group the Druids?
A: No. We will not as of yet identify.
Q: Well, I came to the conclusion that the Rosicrucians are just the new incarnation of the Druids. I mean, the Druids disappeared and the Rosicrucians appeared not too
long afterward.
A: Partially.

Q: (L) Where did the Jews come from?
A: Atlantis.

Q: (L) When the Jews were dispersed, did some of them come to America?
A: A few.

010823
Q: (L) Okay, moving on to the next question: Are Semites a mixture of Aryan genetics and Black genetics as I*** and I have theorized?
A: Partly.
Q: (L) Once before you talked about the "mission destiny profile prior encoding" of the Semitic genetic code structure. Of course, you talked about this
being done 130,000 years ago, so that's a long time. But, was that original code structure put into the genetic code of the Black peoples...
A: Yes.
Q: ... to then be spread via their mixture with Aryans - as Semites - into other races?
A: Partly.
Q: (L) What is the other part?
A: Genetic tweaking of Semites.
Q: (L) Is there something in the sub-Saharan African genes that makes one tend more toward STO?
A: Not really.
Q: (L) [Reading from list of questions.] If not, why does there seem to be a continuing effort to wipe out these groups? Is this simply karma? [To TB]
This was asked once before and the response was that it was partly karmic because, indeed, the Black peoples had a high civilization and were cruel
masters of slaves. Same deal with the Jews. They are reincarnated Atlanteans and the holocaust was part of the expunging of their guilt for the former
destruction of the global civilization. Okay, are we near to the time of seeing 4th density Nordics among us?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Have any of us here met any?
A: Good possibility.

Does the Matrix's Zion population is some thing like population irrespective of grouping ( blood lines, nationality,religion, physical grouping) are some one who has the gene's with "mission destiny profile prior encoding" ? . Just some thoughts
 
seek10 said:
This is a interesting subject. Zion, Zionists, Jews, semites , "the one" etc. are laced with layers and layers of deceptions which "Controversy of Zion" already addressed. But in the context of Matrix, still puzzles me . As we know original meaning of Jew has little or nothing in common to current day Jew or current day pathological zionists.

Maybe the filmmakers used the term Zion in a different context. Zion could mean many things, not necessarily related to Semitism or Judaism. It could just be a biblical reference, as Jersusalem was referred to as Zion, or even Solomon's Temple.

Or they could be using it in the Rastafarian context, where Zion was a utopian place that stood for unity, peace, and freedom. Or in Arab tradition where they interpreted the eschatological Zion as references to the holy site of Mecca. It seems more likely that the Zion in The Matrix was not meant to be understood in a Semitic context, but rather one of these other references which seem to fit better IMO.
 
Heimdallr said:
seek10 said:
This is a interesting subject. Zion, Zionists, Jews, semites , "the one" etc. are laced with layers and layers of deceptions which "Controversy of Zion" already addressed. But in the context of Matrix, still puzzles me . As we know original meaning of Jew has little or nothing in common to current day Jew or current day pathological zionists.

Maybe the filmmakers used the term Zion in a different context. Zion could mean many things, not necessarily related to Semitism or Judaism. It could just be a biblical reference, as Jersusalem was referred to as Zion, or even Solomon's Temple.
Or they could be using it in the Rastafarian context, where Zion was a utopian place that stood for unity, peace, and freedom. Or in Arab tradition where they interpreted the eschatological Zion as references to the holy site of Mecca. It seems more likely that the Zion in The Matrix was not meant to be understood in a Semitic context, but rather one of these other references which seem to fit better IMO.

Thank you Heimdallr for mentioning the other contexts. you may be correct. This could be completely different.
 
[quote author=seek10]
This is a interesting subject. Zion, Zionists, Jews, semites , "the one" etc. are laced with layers and layers of deceptions which "Controversy of Zion" already addressed. But in the context of Matrix, still puzzles me .[/quote]

To me, in the context of The Matrix movie, Zion was just symbolic for a resting place at the end of a journey, or perhaps just being a "safe place" for the group like that underground stronghold was supposed to be "safe".

[quote author=seek10]
If Smith is pathology, Is Neo the comet's ?[/quote]

In the language of Matrix movie symbolism, I think Smith and Neo just represent the ultimate agents of conscious evil vs conscious Good in the overall war to rid the world of awake and aware humans. Humans who can potentially rob the machines of their main power source.

IOW, both Neo and comets could represent agents of change for Creative force in their own respective contexts.

Just my thoughts.

Aside:
I think the most thrilling scene, to me, was that final fight between Neo and Smith. Neo had been unable to gain the upper hand until he stopped fighting Smith. That's right, NEO had to stop fighting Smith. When Neo went Zen-like, it signaled that he had turned himself over to Universe. At that point Creative Force had use for Neo's knowledge and abilities. Neo stood tall, steadied himself while gaining the gumption for a direct frontal assault that went to Smith's insides. Smith was destroyed from the inside out.

That was quite a thrilling scene for me and I still get goose bumps. I hope you don't mind that I just wanted to share that with you. That is, of course, just my preferred interpretation. :)
 
Heimdallr said:
Maybe the filmmakers used the term Zion in a different context. Zion could mean many things, not necessarily related to Semitism or Judaism. It could just be a biblical reference, as Jersusalem was referred to as Zion, or even Solomon's Temple.

Hello Heimdallr, I am not sure what you mean. It IS a biblical reference, drawn from the Judeo-Christian eschatological tradition. Whoever wrote the script did not use Asgard, Asphodel, Elysian Fields or Hawaiki. One could argue that it was chosen, because this is the tradition the average movie-goer grew up with and would so recognize the mythical reference easily. Same with the concept of The One that returns and saves the world for us so that we can just sit back and relax. To call the city Zion in a movie that is filmed in the 1990s takes it up a notch imho, because the word immediately takes you to the political stage (if you want it or not).

Heimdallr said:
Or they could be using it in the Rastafarian context, where Zion was a utopian place that stood for unity, peace, and freedom. Or in Arab tradition where they interpreted the eschatological Zion as references to the holy site of Mecca. It seems more likely that the Zion in The Matrix was not meant to be understood in a Semitic context, but rather one of these other references which seem to fit better IMO.

Rastafarianism has Jewish roots in the sense that the Jewish belief system was used to depict the challenges and toils of this particular group. There are others that claim that Rastafarianism is actually connected to Judaism historically, but I found the websites at least not very trustworthy. One cannot deny this though:

Numerous amounts of religious groups have started and developed from experiences which have happened to them in the past. For example, Judaism and Rastafarianism are two religious sects which have been formed from former events which created and helped start these religions. There is also a strong tie between these two religions because they are two groups which have been oppressed and persecuted in the past which helped them unite and become one. Until the nineteenth century the Jews, even though they were white, lived a life which shared the same status of the Blacks. The Jews and Blacks were both subjected to slavery because they were a little bit different. It was also said the first Israelites were black, being the first Jews. Another strong bond between these two groups is the belief of repatriation, which is to return to the country of origin or allegiance, being it Ethiopia (Africa) for the Rastas and Israel for the Jews. Rastafarianism also has and uses a lot of the same beliefs of the Jews. As you can see Judaism and Rastafarianism has strong connections, being it beliefs, events which happened to them in the past, origin, and the worship of one God.
"The Rastafarians emerge as a loosely organized inspirational group (or groups?) of men and women concerned at the plight of black people, especially the plight of those whose ancestors were forcibly removed from Africa to become the slaves of the white man on his plantations in the islands of the Caribbean"(Cashmore, 1). The English takeover of Jamaica in 1660 started the terrible beginning of the African Diaspora. Millions of Africans were stolen off of their continent and were shipped over to the Caribbean where they were fashioned to do slave labor so the Europeans could make money. Over 80 million Africans died in the process of departing to the islands. The slaves were denied any form of religion and were treated like animals. They were also denied food and were made to grow their own food so they could feed themselves. Many years went by till the slaves started to rebel. The 'Maroons' were a group of runaway slaves who started a powerful group of guerrilla warriors who lived in the most dangerous woods in Jamaica. But the Maroons gave in and signed a peace treaty in 1738 and were paid to catch the runaway slaves and became supporters of slavery. It wasn't till 1831 when a huge rebellion took place which finally led to the emancipation of slavery....
Marcus Mosiah Garvey, one of the world's most acclaimed Black leaders, contributed a large part to the beginning of Rastafarianism with his philosophy."No other Black man in history was able to understand so clearly the worldwide oppressions of Black people, and no other was in turn perceived by so many Blacks as the one person with the solutions to their problems"(Barret, 66). Blacks all around the world listened to him which resulted in a movement which started in 1914. The Universal Negro Improvement Association (UNIA) which started in Kingston, Jamaica led to world wide following of Blacks. Garvey had millions of followers but the general impact he made on Black consciousness was more important than anything else. His one simple aim was to unite Black people with there homeland, Africa. Garvey explained that all Black people in the world descended from Africans and they should return home. His"Back to Africa"campaign also explained that domination over the Black man had remained long after the shackles had been removed after liberation. Garvey preached that their minds were still affected from years of being subjected to Whites. Programs that were steered to progressive integration of Blacks into white society meant nothing to Garvey. His one goal was to break the White world and restore the dignity in Blacks. Garvey was quoted in the NY Times saying,"We shall organize the four hundred million Negroes of the world into a vast organization to plant the banner of freedom of the great continent of Africa....If Europe is for the Europeans, then Africa is for the Black peoples of the world"(Cashmore, 2). Garvey even bought a steamship line called the 'Black Star Line' to transport people back to Africa. Extreme effort was put into this but unfortunately it didn't work out. Garvey explained to his followers about their rightful place on earth as Gods creation.
The Rastafarian philosophy was created after Garvey had delivered these two quotes,
"Look to Africa when a Black king shall be crowned for the day of deliverance
near."
"Weep Not: behold the Lion that is of the Tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath overcome, to open the book and the seven seals thereof"(5:5-6) (Cashmore, 3).

After the Blacks heard that they believed that the king was Haile Selassie (Jah Rastafari), former emperor of Ethiopia, was the leader, messiah, redeemer, and the one and only God. Selassie was also titled as the"Lord of Lords-King of Kings."Jah Rastafari was said to be descended from King Solomon and the Queen of Sheeba and was also given the symbol of"The Lion Of Judah,"the powerful lion who will bring them back to their home in Africa. This theory started Rastafarianism with the three themes of: 1)Merger of African and Christian religions (Help from Sam Sharpe), 2)Marcus Garvey (Garvyism), 3)Ethiopianism-The image of where they were from, Ethiopia = Africa.
From the beginning of Rastafarianism there were many communities and groups that were formed. Leonard P. Howell is credited for starting the first branch in 1935. He also is acclaimed for writing the first Rastafarian bible. The movement never had a central organization or a single leader with any kind of authority. This was because of there philosophy that no person had any privilege, power or special religious domination. All men are totally equal in"human truths and rights."This theory gave the Rastas a saying of"I n I"meaning that all men are equal and there was no"you and I."To be a true Rastafarian you must acknowledge the following 13 theories:
"1) H.I.M. Emperor Haile Selassie I, King of Kings, Lord of Israel, Conquering Lion of The Tribe Of Judah, 225th descendent of the House of David.
2) One must know and acknowledge the Bible and the teachings of Jah Rastafari above all things.
3) One accepts and holds in reverence the person of His Majesty Haile Selassie as the living manifestation of Jah (God) in the flesh.
4) One must know that the so called death"death"is not an eternal phenomenon, one only sees"death"happening in life-a Rastaman knows not of death but of life everlasting.
5) One seeks after the world of life, Jah Life (The Kingdom of Jah) and not after the material things of this world, for they are only temporary (Kingdom of Babylon).
6) A Rastafarian is a Jew by nature, being a righteous one of principles, dignity and love for God.
7) A Rasta cannot afford to be"color blind."Jah is universal, Jah go and do as he wishes, Jah can take on any color he pleases.
8) All people are of Jah Rastafari regardless of color.
9) A Rastafarian must accept the oath of the Nazarite, such as the forefathers- Moses, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Jes-us Christ, and Ras Ta Fari.
10) A Rastafarian must be a man of peace, love and unity, living in harmony with Jah, man, and nature. Living without violence, corruption and envy towards his brothers and sisters.
11) A Rastafarian must accept and observe the laws of the Ten Commandments, which Jah left early mankind, comprising of every prerequisite for a flourishing communal life.
12) It is and should be the will of all Rastafarian to liberate and eradicate all iniquity (evil) from all the world.
13) Repatriation is a must for all Rastafarians. Repatriation from Babylon (western concepts and false teachings) to Zion land, the promised land, African Land. A physical and spiritual repatriation to the land of 'I n I' (our) fore parents, with clean hands and pureness of heart"(Wadadah, 7).
http://debate.uvm.edu/dreadlibrary/buchwald.html

Hello Buddy, but WHY call it Zion?

EmmeYa
 
EmmeYa said:
To call the city Zion in a movie that is filmed in the 1990s takes it up a notch imho, because the word immediately takes you to the political stage (if you want it or not).

I think you might be vastly over estimating the movie going public. At the time I first saw this movie, when it came out in the theatres, it didn't even cross my mind that Zion might be linked to Zionism. Of course, if I saw it today, I might think differently, but to say that the word "immediately takes you to the political stage if you want it or not" is an over statement.


[quote author=ey]

Hello Buddy, but WHY call it Zion?

[/quote]

Because it was supposed to be the "promised land" where humans were safe, which links back to the earlier uses of the word that Heimdallr mentioned?
 
anart said:
EmmeYa said:
Hello Buddy, but WHY call it Zion?

Because it was supposed to be the "promised land" where humans were safe, which links back to the earlier uses of the word that Heimdallr mentioned?

Personally, I would say yes to anart's question, EmmeYa.
 
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