The Odyssey - Manual of Secret Teachings?

[Akopirnas]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

I read it in childhood and episodically last 20 years.
Lately because of interest to Helen's theme and controversial data concerning authorship.

 

[Laura]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

The study of the Odyssey by Bruce Louden is the source of the ideas I'm going to present here about the Odyssey. Book is entitled: The Odyssey: Structure, Narration, and Meaning. (Johns Hopkins, 1999)

I've got the Samuel Butler prose version which is a lovely read! Butler was an interesting guy. Check Wikipedia for a bit about his life. Anyway, as Wikipedia says:

Butler developed a theory that the Odyssey came from the pen of a young Sicilian woman, and that the scenes of the poem reflected the coast of Sicily and its nearby islands. He described the "evidence" for this theory in his The Authoress of the Odyssey (1897) and in the introduction and footnotes to his prose translation of the Odyssey (1900). Robert Graves elaborated on this hypothesis in his novel Homer's Daughter. In a lecture titled "The Humour of Homer", delivered at The Working Men's College in London, 1892, Butler argued that Homer's gods in the Iliad are like men but "without the virtue" and that the poet "must have desired his listeners not to take them seriously."

It was a pretty innovative idea at the time and there may be some truth in this in terms of the written version having been put down on paper in such a context, but I think we should keep Wilkens' map of Troy and those ancient lands in mind while reading.

I've even considered enhancing that map, printing it, and pasting it inside the cover of the book.

On to the structure.

Louden makes a few points in his intro as follows:

A good awareness of the structure aids interpretation and boy, is that the truth! It is in the structure that you find the points that the text is seeking to convey, to emphasize, to teach.

It is in studying the patterns of repetition that you discover the structure. The Odyssey incorporates all kinds of repetitive elements from repeating words that make a point, repeating whole lines, repeating dramatic scenes/scenarios, and larger unit repetition.

One scholar compared the repetitive elements in the Odyssey to a then living oral tradition in the former Yugoslavia. He then concluded that the repeated verbal and line formulas allowed the bard to improvise performances. It is thought that this accounts for the presence of the various repetitive elements - they are there so that a single bard could perform ex tempore, a work as lengthy and intricate as the Odyssey.

The Odyssey contains narrative units of considerable length that contain repeating scene types that extend over several "books" (read: chapters).

Most scholars have concentrated on small, discrete structures within the Odyssey, Louden, however, is concerned with the whole thing, how the interrelations of one part of the plot connect to another part. By this method, he shows that some passages that have been argued as being inconsistent or interpolations, are actually part of the repeating pattern - sometimes repeating exactly as many as three times - and thus argue for the authenticity of those problematical parts.

Type scenes:

Consider Odysseus address to the Phaiakians when, provoked by Euryalos, a rude athlete, the hero competes in the games winning the discus throw. He comments on his prowess in other events including archery as floowls:

I am not bad in any of the contests where men strive. I know well how to handle the polished bow, and would be first to strike my man with an arrow aimed at a company of hostile men. (Book 8)

Louden shows that this passage foreshadows the slaughter of the suitors in book 22. There are many correspondences between Odysseus situation on Skheria and the state of affairs on Ithaka. In each case, Odysseus is verbally abused by a group of young men. There is a parallel name formation for one of the men instigating the abuse: Euryalos -> Eurymakhos. The abusive bands compete in athletic events: the games on Sheria and the bow contest on Ithaka. Odysseus bests the entire band both times. Louden argues that these correspondences are too great to be coincidence.

The same correspondences occur a third time. This type of patterned correspondence is pervasive in the Odyssey.

Louden points out that many scholars insist that these correspondences are "locally motivated" and do not reflect a larger design. He then establishes quite compellingly that this is not the case: the Odyssey is a GRAND Design. Those scholars who do not accept this tend to look on the author (Homer, whoever) as "noble savages" who could not possibly have the kind of intellect needed to actually create the amazing structure of the Odyssey. Louden takes the opposite view arguing that large scale design - intentional - is the overwhelming nature of the Odyssey.

Considering that, we then can consider that there is a serious reason for this over and above just the need for a bard to have a structure that enables him to "improvise." I would even suggest that this pattern - that it is STILL THERE - argues against serious corruption of the text; the structure may be what has preserved the text relatively intact. Louden is convinced that this structure is not there just for aesthetic reasons, that the structure argues for a larger design than previously recognized by most scholars. He notes that the repetition evident in the design helps drive home the poem's central, primarily ethical points, particularly the importance of self-control and the ability to observe the gods' behests in the face of adversity.


In book 8 of the Odyssey, Odysseus himself suggests the importance of sequence in the epic narrative. After Demodokos performs two songs, Odysseus asks him to sing of the Trojan horse, promising reward "if you should narrate these things for me in good order." The Greek used here connotes "an ordered succession" that relates something "point by point." That is, a correct epic performance consists of a point-by-point narrative succession that does not fail. Here, the emphasis is on sequence as a central index of epic competence. Odysseus singles out sequence as a fundamental criterion of performance and composition.

Louden argues that a large sequence of successive type-scenes or motifs - the extended narrative pattern - underlies the bulk of the Odyssey. The FULL EXTENDED PATTERN OCCURS THREE TIMES in the text. This pattern, in its three full versions is the skeleton of 90% of the plot.

Louden proposes that the reason this has not been really noticed before is due to the fact that themes and type scenes do not always exhibit verbal - word for word - correspondences. Louden points out that the theme is not so much a grouping of words, but a grouping of ideas in a particular order.

In the three different sequences, the type-scenes occur in precisely the same order (with rare exceptions). And there is some intervening material less directly related to the pattern and its components. Some details may get more or less expansion or ornamentation in one sequence than another and this may be evidence of some improvisation. But the overall structure argues for excellent survival of the original text.

The three large sequences are interlocking ring compositions: A1 B1 C1 C2 B2 A2.

A1: Ithakan Sequence, book 1 through book 4
B1: Skherian Sequence, end of book 5 through book 8
C1: Aiaian Sequence: book 9 through book 11:332
Intermezzo: 11:333-82
C2: Aiaian Sequence: book 11.383 through book 12
B2: Skherian Sequence, book 13.1-187a
A2: Ithakan Sequence, book 13.187b through book 24

The recurrence of the narrative pattern suggests greater attention should be paid to some of the specific subgenres of myth, especially theoxeny, and key motifs, notably divine interdictions and divine wrath around which the poem has centered the sequences of this narrative pattern. The selectivity the text exercises in emphasizing one type of mythic vehicle over another is one of the best tools for extracting the meaning of the poem.

The mythic subgenre to which the Odyssey belongs is that of a local, contained apocalypse, resulting from a deity's anger at mortals' impiety, in which the "one just man" in the community survives.

I think that there is something about the Odyssey and this pattern thing that makes the poem affect people on several levels depending on the individual, of course. Obviously, knowing the structure, being able to pinpoint the line of force of the text, is the optimal way to combine heart knowledge and head knowledge that one can get from reading this epic.

This should give you enough to think about as you get started. I'll pull out some more interesting stuff tomorrow!

You don't have to race through it, either. Taking your time and thinking about what you have read and trying to "see the unseen" meaning might be useful!

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Weird ... just posted a reply, but it got lost somewhere in the bits and bytes.

I read the Odyssey as a boy in a prose version in German (Die Sagen des Klassischen Altertums by Gustav Schwab). Not sure how much this version has been condensed, but probably a lot.
Will download and read again ...

I was just wondering if the Odyssey would be amenable to the type of mathematical investigation that Fomenko has described in his Chronologies. Not sure if that is worthwhile, but if the question is, whether the Bible and the Odyssey are related to each other, then the method of Fomenko would be helpful. Unfortunately my math knowledge is not good enough to tackle this by myself, but if someone is amongst us with the necessary skills, maybe he or she could design the study and we could help with the leg-work.

Anyway, just the same idea I mentioned in the Fomenko thread.

 

[Laura]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

I've got a scanned version of Louden's later book - 2011 - Homer's Odyssey and the Near East - so it will be easier for me to include some excerpts to sharpen ya'll's perception as you go along!!!

The Odyssey’s larger plot is composed of a number of distinct genres
of myth, all of which are extant in various Near Eastern cultures
(Mesopotamian, West Semitic, Egyptian). Unexpectedly, the Near
Eastern culture with which the Odyssey has the most parallels is the
Old Testament. Consideration of how much of the Odyssey focuses
on non-heroic episodes – hosts receiving guests, a king disguised as a
beggar, recognition scenes between long-separated family members –
reaffirms the Odyssey’s parallels with the Bible. In particular this book
argues that the Odyssey is in a dialogic relationship with Genesis, which
features the same three types of myth that comprise the majority of
the Odyssey: theoxeny, romance (Joseph in Egypt), and Argonautic
myth (Jacob winning Rachel from Laban). The Odyssey also offers
intriguing parallels to the Book of Jonah, and Odysseus’ treatment by
the suitors offers close parallels to the gospels’ depiction of Christ in
Jerusalem.

Lowe, in his analysis of classical plot types
in Western literature, revises Northrop Frye’s (1976) claim for the Bible’s
pre-eminence as most influential text, replacing it with the Odyssey (2000:
129):

A generation ago, it hardly seemed controversial to declare that “western literature
has been more influenced by the Bible than by any other book”. Yet already this
is looking less true, and perhaps it never was. In the forms and media of popular
fiction, at least, the pagan influence of the Odyssey has always been incomparably
more alive. Now, as the traditional borders between high and low culture seem to
be opening permanently to traffic, that persistent influence is more visible than
ever.

Lowe argues for its pre-eminence not only as a paradigm for later narrative,
but for its command of an unprecedented variety of narrative types (128):
[T]he Odyssey is the most encyclopaedic compendium of technical plot devices in
the whole of ancient storytelling, and one of the most dazzling displays of narrative
fireworks anywhere in literature.

Lowe divides Western literature into two subdivisions, a major key, first
present in the Odyssey, and aminor key, first present in the Iliad (2000: 128),
a neat correction of the usual bias that assigns greater importance to tragedy.
In his major, Odyssean, key, the protagonist has greater control, makes
decisions consistent with those forces that govern the protagonist’s world,
whereas in his minor, Iliadic, key, those forces are beyond the protagonist’s
control.

What does it mean to say that the Odyssey is an epic? What is an epic?
Myths employ traditional components, verbal formulas, motifs, and type scenes,
such as divine councils, or a host receiving a guest. Traditional
types of characters, such as heroes, gods, prophets, and patriarchs, are also
constituent elements of myth. Specific genres of myth are also recurring
elements of a mythology. By a genre of myth I mean that myths can
be seen as falling into, or existing, in specific categories, each usually
consisting of a few interconnected type-scenes. Audiences, performers,
and cultures, in a certain sense, acquire an understanding of a “template”
of the respective genre of myth, to which some individual modifications,
local details, accrue, to make a given instance of the genre fit into a specific
context.

A few such genres are well known: creation myth, depicting the
creation of mortals, gods, or the earth, as in the Enuma Elish, the Sumerian
Enki and Ninmah, the Babylonian Adapa, Genesis 1 – 6: 4, Hesiod’s Works
and Days (47–174), Ovid’s Metamorphoses (1.5–88), Milton’s Paradise Lost
(5–6), and the like. Theoxeny, when a host receives a stranger who is really
a god in disguise, ending favorably, with Nestor (Odyssey 3) and Abraham
(Genesis 18; cf. Ovid, Fasti 5.493–544), or ending with the destruction of
those who violate hospitality (Odyssey 1, 17–22, Genesis 19, Metamorphoses
8. 611–724), has been explored by Reece (1993: 10, 47–57, 181–7).

This study argues that the Odyssey’s larger plot combines several distinct
genres of myth (eighteen, by my count), including theoxeny (explored
in Chapter 2), romance (Chapter 3), creation myth (Chapter 5), combat
myth (Chapter 8), and catabasis (Chapter 9). For those genres that lack
established names, I have put forth simple descriptive titles, Sea-monsters
and the fantastic voyage (Chapter 7), The king returns, unrecognized and
abused in his kingdom (Chapter 12). I will establish and analyze these and the
other genres of myth that together make up the Odyssey by demonstrating
that the same genres are also extant in Near Eastern mythic traditions.

I will argue that Genesis shares more genres of myth in common with
the Odyssey than does any other ancient narrative.

My study demonstrates that the genres of myth that comprise the Odyssey
are also extant in Near Eastern cultures, often in Gilgamesh, but most
frequently in OT myth.Why do commentators usually omit consideration
of the substantial parallels between Homeric and OT myth?2 Modern
audiences may, even without realizing, project their beliefs onto how they
read ancient texts. Given the long dominance of Christianity and Judaism
in the West, a majority of modern Western audiences, whether consciously
or unconsciously, may, on the basis of their faith, regard biblical and
Homeric narratives as opposites, seeing the former as “true” or “real,” but
the latter as “false,” “unreal,” or “fictional.” Intentionally or unintentionally,
faith has erected a wall between the study of the two narrative traditions. I
ask readers, therefore, to consider the parallels I adduce, and the arguments
proposed concerning them, as objectively as possible.

I define myth as, a sacred, traditional, narrative, that depicts the interrelations
of mortals and gods, is especially concerned with defining what is moral or
ethical behavior for a given culture, and passes on key information about
that culture’s traditions and institutions.6 My definition should be thought
of as applying best to ancient Near Eastern texts including Gilgamesh,
the Enuma Elish, and other Mesopotamian narratives, the Ugaritic Kirta,
and The Aqhat, the Bible, especially the OT, European epics including
the Odyssey, Iliad, Argonautica, and Aeneid, Hesiod, Greek tragedy, the
Mahabhˆarata and the Ramˆayana, and some later epics, such as Beowulf and
Paradise Lost. This list should not be taken as a value judgment privileging
or validating one myth over another, but a natural grouping of texts that
bear close relations to each other, texts that can provide contexts for each
other, and may have genetic relations with each other.7

Lowe, much as I define myth as illustrating “what is moral or ethical
behavior for a given culture,” stresses the Odyssey’s central moral concerns
(2000: 140–1):

[T]he three great Odyssean principles that will become virtual constants of the
rule-system of classical narrative: that crime brings inevitable punishment, brain
is intrinsically stronger than brawn, and trespass on another’s property is an
invariably fatal violation . . . any mortal contempt for divine status or authority –
invariably brings retribution, whether on the ogre Polyphemus, the beggar, Irus,
or even (in his blasphemous final outburst to the blinded giant) Odysseus himself
. . . To a great extent, the narrative roles of the human players themselves are
straightforwardly defined in terms of these moral laws.

I define epic not as a type of myth, such as “heroic myth,” but as a framework
that can contain within it any other kind of myth, but which features a heroic
protagonist and heroic modality, depicts that hero’s close interaction with the
gods, and through his dilemmas, explores some of the meanings of mortality,
what it means to have to die.8

OT myth’s relevance is evident in the close parallels three well-known
myths offer to the Odyssey. Joseph, separated from his brothers and father
for virtually the same length of time Odysseus is away from Ithaka, meets
with them unrecognized, submits them to various painful tests, before
revealing his identity to them. The recognition scenes serve as the climax
to his narrative, as do Odysseus’ recognition scenes with Penelope and
Laertes. The parallels suggest a highly developed form of romance, with
intricate recognition scenes, is a mythical genre common to both Greek
and Israelite culture, as explored in Chapter 3. Odysseus’ crew, confined
on Thrinakia for a month, in revolt, sacrificing Helios’ cattle in a perverse
ritual, offers extensive parallels to the Israelites’ revolt against Moses, and
perverse worship of the gilded calf in Exodus 32. The myths of Jonah and
Odysseus suggest that Greek and Israelite culture both have a genre of
myth we might think of as the fantastic voyage.

As these examples indicate, very different types of myths are used to
depict the various stages of Odysseus’ larger narrative trajectory from Troy
to Ithaka. Gaining an understanding of how these smaller units function
helps reveal how the Odyssey as a whole functions, how it ties together
distinct mythic types into a large, smoothly functioning composite. Many
of the genres of myth in the Odyssey, such as theoxeny, challenge usual
assumptions of what constitutes an epic. For the greater part of nine books
(14–22) Odysseus, to all outward appearances, is a beggar, associating with
lowly slaves, abused, unrecognized in his own kingdom – unexpected
behavior for an epic hero. The Odyssey establishes its central concern with
non-heroic genres of myth in the Telemachy (Books 1–4), which especially
explores hospitality myth.Here the focus is first on Telemachos’ observance
of the sanctity of hospitality, and the suitors’ thematic violation of the
same (Book 1). Later the patriarch Nestor offers exemplary hospitality to
Telemachos, now a guest, and to the disguised Athena (Book 3), furthering
the Odyssey’s use of non-heroic genres of myth. In these ways and others
the Odyssey has more in common with Genesis and parts of the gospels (see
Chapters 9, and 11–12 of this study) than with most heroic myth, or the
Iliad.

As I will argue, the parallels are far too frequent and close (differences in tone
and narrative agendas notwithstanding) for coincidence. The similarities
between Greek and Near Eastern myth suggest some form of diffusion. I
assume that each tradition, Homeric or Near Eastern, learned or acquired
a “template” of the respective genre of myth, to which each culture then
made some modifications, added more local details, to make it fit into
the specific context in which that culture now employed it. The Odyssey,
for instance, uses theoxeny as episodes in the lives of warriors, Odysseus,
Nestor, and Telemachos, whereas OT myth employs theoxeny as episodes
in the lives of patriarchs, Abraham and Lot. Because of the different type
of characters featured, the respective instances have different modalities.
The warrior Odysseus himself carries out the destruction of the suitors, as
demanded by Athena, whereas in Genesis 19 destruction rains down from
the sky.My analyses do not depend on verbal echoes between the different
forms of the same myth. Rather, the genre of myth exhibits parallels at
a morphological level, different instantiations using the same themes and
type-scenes, if differing in some details.

The likeliest scenario for cultural diffusion is Greek contact with Phoenician
culture, whether in ancient Syria, on Cyprus, or in the Greek world.9
Ongoing archeological research affirms how close ties were at times between
Greeks and various Near Eastern peoples, the Phoenicians in particular.
Since the Greeks obtained their alphabet from the Phoenicians (see
Teodorrson: 2006: 169–72, and Powell 2002: 99–108, for recent discussions),
and Greek myth assigns key roles to Phoenicians (Cadmus, most
importantly), it is likely that the two cultures also engaged in exchanges of
narratives, or specific genres of myth, as well.10

Recent work on the OT has dramatically brought forward the dates for
when the texts reached a form like that which we have. Though the OT
contains units of considerable antiquity, the larger narratives were edited,
rewritten, redacted, at much later times, when influence between the two
cultures may well be from Greek to Israelite culture. If we consider how
widespread were Greek language and culture during the time in which OT
narratives reached their final form, and how comparatively limited was the
use of Hebrew, the likelihood that OT writers were influenced by Hellenistic
culture, rather than the other way around, increases considerably.
I will occasionally suggest, then, that a Greek instance of a specific genre
of myth not only predates an Israelite instance of the same mythic genre
in the OT, but that the OT myth is reacting to, possibly even adapting, a
Greek myth.11

If OT composers were influenced by Greek myth, it is likely that they
encountered the myths in written form. Since Greek culture also impacts
the OT through the Septuagint, since Jews of the period knew Greek, were
part of Hellenistic culture, to some degree, and probably could not help
but be exposed to some forms of Greek myth, I will therefore often give
passages of OT myth in Greek from the Septuagint. Doing so sometimes
makes the parallels between the Odyssey and OT myth even closer, and,
since the authors of the gospels read the OT in Greek and quote from the
Septuagint, also makes parallels between the Odyssey and NT myth more
immediate.

If Genesis is the book of OT myth with the most parallels with the
Odyssey, Jacob is the character that participates in the greatest number of
genres of myth found in the Odyssey. Parallels and differences between
Jacob and Homeric protagonists illustrate a key difference between the
respective mythic traditions. The Odyssey has heroes, warriors, kings, and
their families as its protagonists and central characters, whereas Genesis,
employing many of the same genres of myth, has patriarchs and their
families as its protagonists. Menelaus wrestles with Proteus, as Jacob does
with Yahweh (Gen. 32:22–32);Nestor hosts a positive theoxeny as Abraham
does in Genesis 18; Telemachos hosts a negative theoxeny as Lot does in
Genesis 19;Odysseus’ recognition scenes closely parallel Joseph’s in Genesis
43–5. Genesis shares considerable parallels with the Odyssey because the
Torah offers large-scale parallels, wandering and return, a nostos, sometimes
put forth as a generic classification for the Odyssey.

My view of the Homeric gods is close to Allan’s recent study (2006).
He convincingly undermines long-held assumptions that the Homeric
Olympians in the Odyssey are incompatible with those in the Iliad in
their sense of justice, or that in both epics we should see them as amoral.
Though he does not consider the Near Eastern texts with which we are here
concerned, my own conclusion is that Homeric epic maintains very similar
notions of justice, reward, and punishment, as does OT myth (though I
leave further discussion to specific instances in the various chapters). When
contemporary commentators argue that a specific act by a Homeric god is
immoral or amoral, they do not place the act within an ancient context to
see whether or not in other cultures of the same period, such as OT myth,
a god behaves in the same manner, with a sense of justice perhaps equally
at odds with modern notions. I will argue that Yahweh’s destruction of
all the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, or having the Israelites slay
each other in Exodus 32 until over 3,000 die, are at least as problematic as
Poseidon’s destruction of the Phaiakian crew in Odyssey 13.

 

[ginebra]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

I read it more than twenty years ago.

 

[Lindenlea]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Have not read it either, but hope to.

 

[gurjf]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

They made me read it in high school and don't really understood why!. why!! why!!!

 

[Juba]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

How many of you have actually read The Odyssey?

Both Iliad and Odyssey. For years I was puzzled by Demodokos's (aka Homer appraisal for himself as a bard "favored by the people") fantasy, looking from this perspective, I'm not sure this was a fantasy, probably glimpses from much older fables of lost cultures and forgotten battles.

Homer is a puzzling figure as well, I would like to know from where and how did he got all the stories and why we can't find the original stories, perhaps this and other stories were given in verbal way from generation to generation (knowing the strong influence of Balkan's verbal miles long stories and the same custom in Middle East and certain parts around Caucasus, this could be a hint) but all the stories going from generation to generation on verbal way getting twisted and changed with the narrators and the listeners (actually their memory). So the third question is how much is changed via Homer and his Greek view of the world of men and gods?

The way how Iliad and Odyssey is written reminds me a lot on the way how the verbal stories epics of "Marko Kraljević" are going, one hero who battles massive armies and fantasy like enemies and obstacles through the decades. But that other myths and legends from Greeks epics can be correlated to Heracles and folowed back to Gilgamesh, this one is a bit put of time, out of place.

Iliad and Odyssey, is interesting because they connect many "Greek" kings and heroes, but somehow Troy doesn't look like place in Mediterranean region, the snowy mountains surrounding the Troy. Topographic details doesent fit in any surrounding from the Greek known world. The wast sea (pretty nicely explored by Phoenicians, Egyptians, Greeks and other cultures) is somehow out of place to be considered and strictly connected to the Mediterranean sea. The strange distant lands explored by Odysseus are to strange for anything in Greek world known in that time. Are we looking in twisted story of something much bigger and older than ancient Greeks and their small states? I should say yes, but that is my humble opinion. So this will again go to the first 2 questions, where did Homer and from whom got the previous copy of lost original?

As a kid I was fascinated with Troy (Hissarlik) of Heinrich Schliemann and his stories from Greek Pantheon, but my fascination with this "discoverer" of Troy is now water under the bridge and somehow his Troy is just to small, to simplistic and can't fit to the glory and strength written in Homers epics. The proud and great city of Troy is simply out of reach of Hissarlik's remains.

I don't know if I touched anything interesting in my post but that's what is bothering me in these epics as well as other small details in composition of both epics and influences of the gods on man and political complexity in Iliad.

 

[theos]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

I read it in high school and remember enjoying it though I dont remember all the details. I picked the handle Odyssey after seeing that Journey was taken. Same idea though.

Im gonna order a copy. Hopefully I will see something new in it.

 

[Juba]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Oh, sorry for not reading Laura's posts on page 7 but (all others pages were about that who did and who didn't read this epics), at least my previous posts doesn't seems to strange, actually the map Laura posted is excellent and enlightening, and can't wait for more. Thanks Laura :).

 

[Rabelais]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

I read it in school, back when gas was about $.25 a gallon. We discussed it from a literalist perspective. The teacher may not have even been aware of a deeper meaning concealed within it... in fact I'd bet on that.

Laura, is there any one version/translation that you would recommend?

 

[Kaigen]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Have not read it either, but going to do it soon.

 

[anart]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

I read it in school, back when gas was about $.25 a gallon. We discussed it from a literalist perspective. The teacher may not have even been aware of a deeper meaning concealed within it... in fact I'd bet on that.

I think that is exactly why they have it (and others) in the high school curriculum. The interpretation is very literal and high school students aren't encouraged (or can't) really delve into the actual meaning, so the valuable information contained in such works is nullified early and well, by literal interpretations, and the 'forced learning' (which is rote and not learning at all) of structured schooling.

 

[Gawan]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

is there a german title of "The Odyssey" ?

Unfortunately Project Gutenberg, doesn't carry a German version, nonetheless many other German and English classic books.


I read the Iliad at the same time I read SHOTW and I also have "the Odyssey" at home. Well, sounds like an interesting project.

And what did me help most as I read Iliad, was to have a list with all the greek gods at hand and these are the specific gods that can be find in the Odyssey .

 

[dantem]

Re: The Odyssey - question for all!

Sounds great! I've read the Iliad in High School, and pieces from the Odyssey. Got a book in Italian :)