The Predator - a dark truth right under your own nose, literally

[zak]

Thank you Perceval for listening, finally a question instead of assumption.

I didn't lost my faith in good intentions of people from QFG, but I suppose that many of us already know, that good intentions aren't enough.
I've lost my faith in your ways, because I saw in your group, a bunch of people that make horrible assumptions, about many people they don't even know. I saw a bunch of people that instead of learning and knowing those people, choose to imagine them in a horrible ways and in this way they distort their own (and many others) perception of reality. I saw a bunch of people that after many attacks coming from STS forces, are too frightened to see, that there can be light in other people. I've lost my faith because I saw a bunch of people that are too afraid to listen and to see themselves in the mirror. I saw a bunch of people that are aggressively violating other people's wills and ordering them around just to make their own fear go away and hurting some of those others in the process.

I came back here to see, that you really deserve my faith as Cs said. I came back to give you one last chance.
I came back here to share, because I believe that the unquestionable knowledge I have, can be extremely helpful for this network of lights. I wish to do it for the good of others. When I say that I came to share with others, I mean the whole network and not just you QFG. I have lost my faith in QFG, but not in the other people here.

Beware what you say QFG, remember that you are not masters of the people from this forum. It will be them who will decide if they stay with you or leave you and I already know, that there are very good reasons to leave you. The people start to think on their own and your mistakes will be taken into accounts by them.

Maybe if you lost your faith , and faith can move mountains, you can find it back,
in beginning inside yourself, maybe it's this faith that you lost.
glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=52
My piece of beacon.

---

Mod edit: Made link active. If the text is the actual url for a link, you can highlight the text and then click the little planet with a clipboard button

when making a post.

 

[timmyman]

Trapped In The Mirror is what Mr d3ck3r should start reading.

Is just what I think though and is by no means a professional assessment.

 

[no-mans-land]

I came back here to see, that you really deserve my faith as Cs said. I came back to give you one last chance.

I guess you didn't read the excerpt form Lobaczewski carefully enough, because otherwise you would have noticed, that you did just what he describes here:

Egotism: We call egotism the attitude, subconsciously conditioned as a rule, to which we attribute excessive value to our instinctive reflex, early acquired imaginings and habits, and individual world view. Egotism fosters the domination of subconscious life and makes it difficult to accept disintegrative states, which hampers a personality’s normal evolution. This in turn favors the appearance of the above-mentioned para-appropriate reactions. An egotist measures other people by his own yardstick, treating his concepts and experiential manner as objective criteria. He would like to force other people to feel and think very much the same way he does.

This is extremely interesting to me. I have to say that I agree with d3ck3r somewhat on this one.

I regularly read what's here, but I rarely post anymore for the very same reasons that d3ck3r mentions. I have asked questions here in the past only to be attacked because my point of view apparently didn't match with the majority here. It's one thing to be treated fairly and with consideration and mutual respect, and another to be jumped on for having a differing opinion. It happens so much here that other forums on the net are regularly filled with people who came here to learn and were subsequently attacked or otherwise shamed for not doing things the way this group expects.

So, I rarely post here, but I read and re-read the Wave series and all the transcripts. Yet when it comes to sharing, I do so on other forms that discuss this material where there is a feeling of mutual and parallel learning/teaching instead of only the constant impression that some of us get that either we agree with everything presented here or are somehow seen as STS or an "organic portal."

I appreciate the Work that most people do here, and of course, I am grateful to Laura for bringing us contact with the C's in the first place. But a little less pontificating and a little more humility and willingness to share certainly wouldn't hurt here.

If you have read the wave multiple times and yet not got the idea that opinions are worthless at best and undermine the aim of the forum and the principals of the Work, then you possibly want to consider that what you might think this forum is about is wrong in the first place.

On the other hand, you say that what Laura did was great, but it would be even greater if she would meet your expectations about what amount of sharing is appropriate or not. Its astonishing that no matter how much a person gives to the world, there are always people who demand more and more for themselves. In this context, you also might to re-evaluate what sharing really means to you, given the fact that you seemingly not understand what this forum is about.

 

[Alkhemist]

Your impressions are valid for what they are of course, but it might be useful to place them in the context of you yourself not being immune to "jumping on someone for having a differing opinion"

Thank you for proving my point. This is exactly what I was talking about.

Not only did I NOT "jump on someone for having a differing opinion," you did exactly that with this reply.

 

[Alkhemist]

If you have read the wave multiple times and yet not got the idea that opinions are worthless at best and undermine the aim of the forum and the principals of the Work, then you possibly want to consider that what you might think this forum is about is wrong in the first place.

Again, this is exactly why I rarely post here. Not because I disagree with the content of your post, but because of the attitude. It's rampant here.

On the other hand, you say that what Laura did was great, but it would be even greater if she would meet your expectations about what amount of sharing is appropriate or not. Its astonishing that no matter how much a person gives to the world, there are always people who demand more and more for themselves. In this context, you also might to re-evaluate what sharing really means to you, given the fact that you seemingly not understand what this forum is about.

Wow. It didn't take long at all to get to this point this time. This is a new record.

 

[John G]

...you possibly want to consider that what you might think this forum is about is wrong in the first place.

Again, this is exactly why I rarely post here. Not because I disagree with the content of your post, but because of the attitude. It's rampant here.

...there are always people who demand more and more for themselves...

Wow. It didn't take long at all to get to this point this time. This is a new record.

It's a research forum loosely based on Gurdjieff's methods. I think the idea is that even if everyone who is talking to you was wrong in some sense, there's a way for you to handle that in a more co-linear way. I could of course be wrong.

Compared to Gurdjieff himself, this place could be considered wimpy.

 

[Alkhemist]

It's a research forum loosely based on Gurdjieff's methods. I think the idea is that even if everyone who is talking to you was wrong in some sense, there's a way for you to handle that in a more co-linear way. I could of course be wrong.

Compared to Gurdjieff himself, this place could be considered wimpy.

LOL!! ;D

Nice to see a more friendly reply here. Yes, I'm more than willing to admit there are probably better ways to handle most things than the way I do it! Unfortunately, I'm in the minority here, it appears, when it comes to being self-critical. I will always have more to learn, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Learning is fun!

But so is being kind. I'm not always good at it myself, but I refuse to stop trying.

Tell me more, please, about how you feel I could be more "co-linear."

 

[obyvatel]

Your impressions are valid for what they are of course, but it might be useful to place them in the context of you yourself not being immune to "jumping on someone for having a differing opinion"

Thank you for proving my point. This is exactly what I was talking about.

Not only did I NOT "jump on someone for having a differing opinion," you did exactly that with this reply.

Ok. In your view, you have proven your point of being "jumped on".


[quote author=Alkhemist]

Wow. It didn't take long at all to get to this point this time. This is a new record.
[/quote]

Which proves your point again. Looks like forum is responding exactly as you thought it would. You have got "the number" of the forum. So what is the next step?

 

[Renaissance]

Your impressions are valid for what they are of course, but it might be useful to place them in the context of you yourself not being immune to "jumping on someone for having a differing opinion"

Thank you for proving my point. This is exactly what I was talking about.

Not only did I NOT "jump on someone for having a differing opinion," you did exactly that with this reply.

Much of the work here is to give feedback to one another based on the lessons learned through that same feedback process. We're all STS, we all can be prickly at one time or another, and we are all mired in our own subjective bubbles. However, the group process of feedback is one way to work through those things if such things are desired in the first place. I'd say most who participate regularly value this process because they have acknowledged the hardships to both themselves and others that come with our usual programming, don't want to carry on with it, and have seen or experienced the results of working through such things in this way.

Of course this is easier said than done, and when someone experiences feedback firsthand it can feel like an attack on our self. But that is another maneuver from our self importance so that it can remain in full force. It takes conscious effort to direct what is being said through our self importance and onto the programs that cause various issues. One thing I've tried in the past is to look at something being said and just tried it on for size to see if it applies in any way. Basically take an investigative and curious approach into my own behavior. It's surprising how many more things come to light through this process.

But in order for this to work, I think there does need to be some mutual trust or at least the desire to work towards it. If that's not there and there is no desire for it, it's probably better to just read the forum if you want and just participate elsewhere.

 

[Alana]

Your impressions are valid for what they are of course, but it might be useful to place them in the context of you yourself not being immune to "jumping on someone for having a differing opinion"

Thank you for proving my point. This is exactly what I was talking about.

Not only did I NOT "jump on someone for having a differing opinion," you did exactly that with this reply.

I think you might be caught in a "Keep your damn jack!" mental state. It happens to us all.

Here's a nice version I found:

A man was driving along a country road very late one night.There was a loud “bang” followed by the familiar”Kathunk,Kathunk” of a flat tire.He reluctantly rolled up his sleeves and pulled the spare tire from the trunk.To his surprise,there was no jack to be found!

“&^&**^%$@#!$$^!”,he hollered.

As he was kicking the tires wondering what he could do he noticed a porch light, in the distance,and set out to find a jack.

The walk was a long one. As he stumbled along he began to imagine waking a farmer up from his sleep and finding him unfriendly about the intrusion.After an hour of stumbling,getting caught in sticker bushes and losing a shoe in a mudhole,he could finally see the front steps.

Other thoughts came to him. What if the farmer has a gun? What if he sends a big dog on him?What if the farmer ROBS him when he realizes he is alone?

The man was so angry about the whole situation that he just knew the farmer was going to have a fit about a stranger at his door!

The man stomps up the steps and pounds on the door! An upstairs light comes on and while waiting for the door to open,the stranded man imagines a red faced, bug eyed farmer wrenching open that door!

Footsteps…The door cracks and a voice says, ”Can I help you?”

The stranded man,red faced and raging shouts,”Oh, keep your DAMN jack!”,and storms away.

The blogger who posted the above version, ends with:

I try to take the attitude of strangers with a grain of salt and not personally. After all,they may have been stumbling around in the dark all night!

Sometimes we stumble in the dark all our lives.

It's a choice to arrive at somebody's door with our preconceived ideas of what we will encounter. Our preconceived ideas would not allow us to see the host's real face though, because we will project on to him/her what's in our head, and if there's ever a possibility of getting that jack, fixing our car and continuing our journey, we will have to stop our thought loops, realize what they are, and see and listen with new ears and eyes.

What you are basically doing is saying, "I knew you would react like that!", "I knew it you would say this!" etc. That tells me you already made up your mind so whatever we say to you it sounds like what you expected to hear, but it is not really what we are saying. OSIT.

 

[Joe]

Your impressions are valid for what they are of course, but it might be useful to place them in the context of you yourself not being immune to "jumping on someone for having a differing opinion"

Thank you for proving my point. This is exactly what I was talking about.

Not only did I NOT "jump on someone for having a differing opinion," you did exactly that with this reply.

Well, you really did, even if as you said at the time that you didn't intend to. But isn't that the point, interpretation of what others say and 'taking offense' where none may be intended? If you consider me pointing out that you might have in the past 'jumped' on someone, or that it appeared that way to the person at the time, as 'jumping' on you, then I don't know what to say to you other than it seems that it will be very difficult to have a conversation with you out of fear of stepping on your apparently rather sensitive toes.

 

[Thebull]

It's a research forum loosely based on Gurdjieff's methods. I think the idea is that even if everyone who is talking to you was wrong in some sense, there's a way for you to handle that in a more co-linear way. I could of course be wrong.

Compared to Gurdjieff himself, this place could be considered wimpy.

LOL!! ;D
Nice to see a more friendly reply here. Yes, I'm more than willing to admit there are probably better ways to handle most things than the way I do it! Unfortunately, I'm in the minority here, it appears, when it comes to being self-critical. I will always have more to learn, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Learning is fun!

But so is being kind. I'm not always good at it myself, but I refuse to stop trying.

Tell me more, please, about how you feel I could be more "co-linear."

Alkhemist,

I don't understand how or why you can read emotion, positive or negative in replays to your posts or those of others who you sympathise with. Although I have limited experience using the forum, users base their replies to posts with great thought and the utmost consideration to others most of the time Imo. Also members of the forum demonstrate a great deal of patience while dealing with people at many different levels of consciousness. I suppose I'd like to understand why you deem bluelamps response as more friendly than the others throughout the thread. From an outsiders perspective I didn't feel you had been jumped on in any way in the other posts. Unless I'm missing something and you feel you've been attacked in other posts prior to this one?

 

[Aiming]

It's a choice to arrive at somebody's door with our preconceived ideas of what we will encounter. Our preconceived ideas would not allow us to see the host's real face though, because we will project on to him/her what's in our head, and if there's ever a possibility of getting that jack, fixing our car and continuing our journey, we will have to stop our thought loops, realize what they are, and see and listen with new ears and eyes.

What you are basically doing is saying, "I knew you would react like that!", "I knew it you would say this!" etc. That tells me you already made up your mind so whatever we say to you it sounds like what you expected to hear, but it is not really what we are saying. OSIT.

I think so, too, Alkhemist. Give it a go and step back a little and give us, if you will, the benefit of the doubt, and truly consider that what you're doing is projecting an idea on the forum members that you - for some yet unknown reasons - are confirming in your mind via your own replies. Perhaps consider it as your mind running with limited data and/or a narrowed viewpoint that has its roots elsewhere. Remember, once triggered the mind can go running off into the most elaborate sounding theories and will mechanically do everything it can to keep it up, until the person makes a conscious move and examines whether and in how far the chatter is valid or not. And if you merely keep running with it mechanically, you'll not only keep this perspective but even fuel it, and if you do that then how are you going to learn how to tackle the mechanical manifestations of the mind? It's just another example of a thought loop and we all have those in some way or another.

 

[John G]

It's a research forum loosely based on Gurdjieff's methods. I think the idea is that even if everyone who is talking to you was wrong in some sense, there's a way for you to handle that in a more co-linear way. I could of course be wrong.

Compared to Gurdjieff himself, this place could be considered wimpy.

LOL!! ;D
Nice to see a more friendly reply here. Yes, I'm more than willing to admit there are probably better ways to handle most things than the way I do it! Unfortunately, I'm in the minority here, it appears, when it comes to being self-critical. I will always have more to learn, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Learning is fun!

But so is being kind. I'm not always good at it myself, but I refuse to stop trying.

Tell me more, please, about how you feel I could be more "co-linear."

Alkhemist,

I don't understand how or why you can read emotion, positive or negative in replays to your posts or those of others who you sympathise with. Although I have limited experience using the forum, users base their replies to posts with great thought and the utmost consideration to others most of the time Imo. Also members of the forum demonstrate a great deal of patience while dealing with people at many different levels of consciousness. I suppose I'd like to understand why you deem bluelamps response as more friendly than the others throughout the thread. From an outsiders perspective I didn't feel you had been jumped on in any way in the other posts. Unless I'm missing something and you feel you've been attacked in other posts prior to this one?

Yeah as has been mentioned here before, even if this forum wanted to do things more exactly like Gurdjieff, it wouldn't be possible since you miss a lot of context clues being online instead of in person. There are reasons why OSIT and "I could be wrong" get said a lot; besides being true, it can diffuse misunderstandings. I did very briefly consider changing "wimpy" to something more professional sounding but left it in to also try to diffuse any fuel on the fire effects my previous words might have had. I was worried about, as Perceval described it, "stepping on sensitive toes". I actually skipped over reading the post to me and read the ones after it first to see if there was any damage control related to my post and was kind of humorously surprised to see your post showing kind of the opposite effect.

Since I'm here, I'll say something more (for Alkhemist) about what "co-linear" means for me. For me for this very unique place, it literally means trusting this place with my life (even if hopefully that situation doesn't directly occur). You can disagree about a particular issue of course but that's kind of a quick thing you can bring up and then kind of let go because as Obyvatel said, "what is the next step". It's not like you want to keep saying the same thing over and over here. It's like the situation with non-colinear friends, you can say some things as they come up in conversation but you can't go overboard.

And for the record, everyone on the planet is STS and thus have the associated problems that brings. I have some that I consider huge and it wouldn't surprise me if they have to carry over to the next incarnation in order to get adequately worked on. We all know that we all are nowhere near perfect, that's kind of always implied in everything said here. I liked Laura's comment in the last session:

A: To express dissatisfaction when feeling disaffected due to lack of faith in the process.

Q: (L) Well, I think everybody gets into a period where they feel a lack of faith. Sometimes it's just a chemical feeling, like when you're depressed and everything is black, nothing will ever be nice again, your life is crappy, and that sort of thing. So I think that anybody can be vulnerable to that.

A: Yes. It needs to be aired out.

Air out OK, but not too much over and over I would think, 3rd Density seems to have a lot of need for letting things go. There can be OK reasons for staying away from the forum (I found Neil's recent posts inspiring in part cause I remember him a lot from 2006, the year I got here, but he's taken a lot of time off since then but still seems to have been doing some good thinking), but I wouldn't do that just cause of posts from others; hard to be really co-linear if the posts here worry you enough that you have to stay away.

 

[d3ck3r]

After my last post here I've decided to wait and see what happens. Sometime later Alkhemist joined and said that he somewhat agrees with me. He recieved typical responses from this network.
I was reading those responses and after a time in that reading I've felt a vague feeling coming from my True Self, that said to me: "there are only machines here". It interested me and I've started to observe what is actually happening here. I was reading posts under this impression and I've discovered that many people here are talking about listening, but literally nobody is doing that. I was thinking about that conclusion and something I knew before from my experiences came to my attention: "Little I's" always work in the same way - they respond to user input. Input -> Output-Input -> Output-Input -> Output-Input... and this is exactly what I saw here - there is no consciousness here.