The Predator - a dark truth right under your own nose, literally

[Joe]

I was reading posts under this impression ...

Seems like a willfully subjective exercise.

 

[no-mans-land]

If you have read the wave multiple times and yet not got the idea that opinions are worthless at best and undermine the aim of the forum and the principals of the Work, then you possibly want to consider that what you might think this forum is about is wrong in the first place.

Again, this is exactly why I rarely post here. Not because I disagree with the content of your post, but because of the attitude. It's rampant here.

I really don't know what you mean with an rampant attitude here. I pointed out that it is extensively explained in the Wave Series what the foundation of our approach is and your posts here indicate that you probably missed some important points that would help you to get a more in depth understanding of the matter.

On the other hand, you say that what Laura did was great, but it would be even greater if she would meet your expectations about what amount of sharing is appropriate or not. Its astonishing that no matter how much a person gives to the world, there are always people who demand more and more for themselves. In this context, you also might to re-evaluate what sharing really means to you, given the fact that you seemingly not understand what this forum is about.

Wow. It didn't take long at all to get to this point this time. This is a new record.

If someone points out to you that your understanding of a certain matter is based on the lack of knowledge and therefore your view may be distorted, do you perceive it as an attack? You certainly lack a lot of knowledge especially about what Laura is really doing, here in the forum and behind the scenes. It would really help you to step back a little and let the possibility sink in that you might miss some important pieces of information that would help you to see the bigger picture, not only about yourself, but also about others, the forum and the Work.

The best approach from my perspective is to think that my own understanding of things is wrong and I need more input to become more and more co-linear with reality. So the point is to accept the idea that you might be wrong and need more knowledge is not meant as an attack but as an hint that there are treasures hidden from you sight that can be found through efforts of your own.

 

[timmyman]

After my last post here I've decided to wait and see what happens. Sometime later Alkhemist joined and said that he somewhat agrees with me. He recieved typical responses from this network.
I was reading those responses and after a time in that reading I've felt a vague feeling coming from my True Self, that said to me: "there are only machines here". It interested me and I've started to observe what is actually happening here. I was reading posts under this impression and I've discovered that many people here are talking about listening, but literally nobody is doing that. I was thinking about that conclusion and something I knew before from my experiences came to my attention: "Little I's" always work in the same way - they respond to user input. Input -> Output-Input -> Output-Input -> Output-Input... and this is exactly what I saw here - there is no consciousness here.

Man you'r ego knows how to get it's food. I Really suggest you review this entire topic and analyse all from both parties viewpoints and If you really are getting offended and feel the need to tell someone's life work is wrong then I suggest that you have some compelling material to back up your claims. As far as I've understood your material is somewhat lacking in that area and if you are not here to improve on your ideas then I would suggest that you find a new audience.
We're here to learn. And I'm eternally grateful for all the great work that has been presented here. While we all fall into the Ego trap every once in a while I have found that Honest questions have always been answered on this forum.
But topics like this are great also as I have been given a really good example what an ego trap looks like and can work on sorting out mine. So in that case thank you.

 

[Phill4]

Your impressions are valid for what they are of course, but it might be useful to place them in the context of you yourself not being immune to "jumping on someone for having a differing opinion"

Thank you for proving my point. This is exactly what I was talking about.

Not only did I NOT "jump on someone for having a differing opinion," you did exactly that with this reply.

Ahhh Yes you did, I read the exchange, you were asking a definite answer about the chakras to a forum member and since his answer was quote" not what you were asking" you had to quote "repeat yourself three times", as you replied.
It's like if I ask you something so I can disagree three times. Not nice way to ask a question.


And I think Perceval showed an example in which he agrees with what you are saying here, because just like you have feelings, questions and ideas other members have feelings, questions and ideas that deserve a chance to be listened to.

PS: semantics games , not a fan

Just my opinion.

 

[Alkhemist]

Absolutely unbelievable. Judgment after judgment, several attacks, and now, I'm sure, there will be a ton more because I'm bothering to post one more time. I have a house full of people here to whom I showed the screen just now and every single one of them gave me suggestions for rather colorful responsive posts that would most likely get me banned.

Seriously, it's almost sad that only a very few of you know what courtesy and kindness is. If someone doesn't agree with you, or post the way YOU wish, then they're apparently considered fair game for an avalanche of opinionated judgmental "look at how clever I am" posts. Not everyone who comes here is a Gurdjieff groupie, so perhaps you folks might consider adding a disclaimer to this forum so people who are NOT necessarily Gurdjieff groupies will know that posting here is at one's own risk.

Why it's so difficult to treat people kindly here is completely beyond me, but then I'm sure someone will say that I'm just no "co-linear" enough or that I somehow don't appreciate Laura enough. (That's one I never understand since it's not only inaccurate, but she was mentioned in my post to say that I DO appreciate what's she's done.) It's a tired response here, seemingly designed to keep one on the defensive rather than offering any mutual discussion for the purpose of learning.

I suppose now that you're all itching to type something back to me as quickly as possible now, so I'll let you get to it. Fortunately, there is another forum out there discussing this material since so many leave here battered and bruised instead of enlightened.

May you all find peace.

 

[wr4]

Maybe you should post the parts from responses which you consider to be attacks? It may not be about posting kindly or badly, both can be attacks, and maybe the responses were from their point of view, and not yours.

 

[timmyman]

dear Alkhemist

In most of your post your giving this forum character that i cannot see and you really seem anxious to get the responses that you say that you so usually get. And I really do remember reading a disclaimer about this forum being pretty much Gurdjeff related so I really don't get what you are saying here. Mostly I see you trying to pick a fight which you seem upset about for not getting one.

Or are you just trying to get banned? If you are then I guess ranting about getting banned will definitely do the job.

 

[Joe]

Absolutely unbelievable. Judgment after judgment, several attacks, and now, I'm sure, there will be a ton more because I'm bothering to post one more time.

Probably not. Since it's obvious you're just trolling now.

 

[riclapaz]

Fortunately, there is another forum out there discussing this material since so many leave here battered and bruised instead of enlightened.

May you all find peace.

I think you are being a victim of an emotional hijacking, maybe would be nice for you to read (if not already done) the rules of this forum, understood that for healthy interaction among all, as a minimum, they must express a decent way, with good manners, kindness, respect, if you do not understand this, it is difficult to have a healthy discussion, any constructive feedback for you, what is taking such an attack, I recommend you think about all this, try before posting think with a cool head, when it is at peace with yourself this is reflected, especially in these interaction the forum.

 

[Phill4]

I disagree again. Some People come here bruised and hurt by life, and ive seen it time and again how members here are supportive and comprehensive to one another.


PS: There is no easy, shortcut way to enlightment on any forum on the planet.

These subjects are discussed here with refferences links and imputs from many sources, from many people to aid members on their personal research not limited to Gurdjieff or Castañeda only.
The search button is a great tool to find these threads.

 

[Alada]

Absolutely unbelievable. Judgment after judgment, several attacks, and now, I'm sure, there will be a ton more because I'm bothering to post one more time. I have a house full of people here to whom I showed the screen just now and every single one of them gave me suggestions for rather colorful responsive posts that would most likely get me banned.

Seriously, it's almost sad that only a very few of you know what courtesy and kindness is. If someone doesn't agree with you, or post the way YOU wish, then they're apparently considered fair game for an avalanche of opinionated judgmental "look at how clever I am" posts. Not everyone who comes here is a Gurdjieff groupie, so perhaps you folks might consider adding a disclaimer to this forum so people who are NOT necessarily Gurdjieff groupies will know that posting here is at one's own risk.

Dear Alkhemist,

It seems only fair to highlight that there is indeed such a disclaimer, which you would have read and agreed to before joining the forum.

In the very first few paragraphs we find this:

[quote author=Forum Registration Agreement]

First our Vision for this forum: to create an environment for the stimulation, development and then the alignment of objective consciousnesses as defined and described by Georges Gurdjieff.

Okay people! Let's be clear on some things before you join up, now I know you are aching to get in there and comment on... stuff... but before you do you need to agree to some basic rules about politeness, kindness, and not being a total psycho. You also need to understand the philosophy of the owners of this forum and the associated websites.

First our Vision for this forum: to create an environment for the stimulation, development and then the alignment of objective consciousnesses as defined and described by Georges Gurdjieff.

"So that we can imagine the whole of humanity, known as well as unknown to us, as consisting so to speak of several concentric circles.

"The inner circle is called the 'esoteric'; this circle consists of people who have attained the highest development possible for man, each one of whom possesses individuality in the fullest degree, that is to say, an indivisible 'I,' all forms of consciousness possible for man, full control over these states of consciousness, the whole of knowledge possible for man, and a free and independent will. They cannot perform actions opposed to their understanding or have an understanding which is not expressed by actions. At the same time there can be no discords among them, no differences of understanding. Therefore their activity is entirely co-ordinated and leads to one common aim without any kind of compulsion because it is based upon a common and identical understanding.

"The next circle is called the 'mesoteric,' that is to say, the middle. People who belong to this circle possess all the qualities possessed by the members of the esoteric circle with the sole difference that their knowledge is of a more theoretical character.' This refers, of course, to knowledge of a cosmic character. They know and understand many things which have not yet found expression in their actions. They know more than they do. But their understanding is precisely as exact as, and therefore precisely identical with, the understanding of the people of the esoteric circle. Between them there can be, no discord, there can be no misunderstanding. One understands in the way they all understand, and all understand in the way one understands. But as was said before, this understanding compared with the understanding of the esoteric circle is somewhat more theoretical.

"The third circle is called the 'exoteric,' that is, the outer, because it is the outer circle of the inner part of humanity. The people who belong to this circle possess much of that which belongs to people of the esoteric and mesoteric circles but their cosmic knowledge is of a more philosophical character, that is to say, it is more abstract than the knowledge of the mesoteric circle. A member of the mesoteric circle calculates, a member of the exoteric circle contemplates. Their understanding may not be expressed in actions. But there cannot be differences in understanding between them. What one understands all the others understand.

[…]

[/quote]

There is much more besides, and again the work of Gurdjieff is mentioned throughout.

For any real change to occur we need to find a special kind of school and special conditions in order learn from the very beginning. We cannot however expect to dictate the syllabus, the teaching methods or modes of discussion, which would just be plain silly if we understand that we know nothing to begin with and go to school in order to learn and not to teach.

It seems to be however that many people are very happy with themselves the way they are and, as the saying goes, ‘don’t know a good thing when they see it’. Even when it is right under their noses. Can you imagine?!

Very best wishes on your path.

 

[RedFox]

After my last post here I've decided to wait and see what happens. Sometime later Alkhemist joined and said that he somewhat agrees with me. He recieved typical responses from this network.

I have some question :)
If someone doesn't agree with you in real life away from this forum how do you feel?
How often do you feel this in your day to day life?

I was reading those responses and after a time in that reading I've felt a vague feeling coming from my True Self, that said to me: "there are only machines here".

How do you know the feeling was from your True Self?
What qualifies True Self?

 

[Archaea]

I think it's funny that the title of this thread is: "The Predator - a dark truth right under your own nose, literally"

I personally can understand d3ck3r and Alkhemist's point of view, because I shared it. Sometimes it can seem like the members of this forum are exercising their capacity for group-thinking, or as Sott would put it, they can seem like they're "sheeple". I don't think that's the case now, but when someone comes on the forum and expresses their opinion, and then everybody else comes along and expresses their opposing opinion which they evidently formed from reading Laura's work, it can seem like nobody's thinking for themselves.

Whether or not opinions belong on this forum is another issue, however, I think subjective viewpoints are good for people to be able to express and I also think it can be beneficial for people to see how other people see the world. I think that this would eventually "scare" the predator away.

Another thing I wanted to say was that, even though the only stuff I've read of Gurdjieff has been on this forum, he seems to me to be a bit of a hard-ass. I'm not sure if a strictly Gurdjieffian approach would work well in an online forum format, i.e. I'm not sure that it translates well into a sort of mass impersonalized setting OSIT, I could be wrong. ;)

 

[Mr. Premise]

I think it's funny that the title of this thread is: "The Predator - a dark truth right under your own nose, literally"

I personally can understand d3ck3r and Alkhemist's point of view, because I shared it. Sometimes it can seem like the members of this forum are exercising their capacity for group-thinking, or as Sott would put it, they can seem like they're "sheeple". I don't think that's the case now, but when someone comes on the forum and expresses their opinion, and then everybody else comes along and expresses their opposing opinion which they evidently formed from reading Laura's work, it can seem like nobody's thinking for themselves.

Whether or not opinions belong on this forum is another issue, however, I think subjective viewpoints are good for people to be able to express and I also think it can be beneficial for people to see how other people see the world. I think that this would eventually "scare" the predator away.

Another thing I wanted to say was that, even though the only stuff I've read of Gurdjieff has been on this forum, he seems to me to be a bit of a hard-ass. I'm not sure if a strictly Gurdjieffian approach would work well in an online forum format, i.e. I'm not sure that it translates well into a sort of mass impersonalized setting OSIT, I could be wrong. ;)

Well, this forum is not for everybody. It is founded as a way for people to do the Gudjieff work vitually. The forum has a purpose and a focus. It's stated right in the guidelines.

To create an environment for the stimulation, development and then the alignment of objective consciousnesses as defined and described by the Cassiopaeans with the able help of Georges Gurdjieff, Mouravieff, Castaneda, and many other sources available to us. The foundation of this forum is The Cassiopaean Experiment, the layout of the rooms is generally modelled after the work of Gurdjieff and Mouravieff, the decor and details are filled in by Castaneda and many modern psychological studies.

And while it may be beneficial for people to express their subjective viewpoints, it is only beneficial if they are open to objective feedback about their subjective viewpoints. For some reason, some people view that as an "attack".

 

[Alada]

I think it's funny that the title of this thread is: "The Predator - a dark truth right under your own nose, literally"

Indeed! There is a huge irony which appeared in this thread.

I personally can understand d3ck3r and Alkhemist's point of view, because I shared it. Sometimes it can seem like the members of this forum are exercising their capacity for group-thinking, or as Sott would put it, they can seem like they're "sheeple". I don't think that's the case now, but when someone comes on the forum and expresses their opinion, and then everybody else comes along and expresses their opposing opinion which they evidently formed from reading Laura's work, it can seem like nobody's thinking for themselves.

I can understand that, but you see there is a very different tone for example in the way you yourself communicate a difference of opinion and the way others have. Some things can be recognised by their particular ‘taste’.

Whether or not opinions belong on this forum is another issue, however, I think subjective viewpoints are good for people to be able to express and I also think it can be beneficial for people to see how other people see the world. I think that this would eventually "scare" the predator away.

Sure, there’s nothing wrong with that line of thought, we’re all going to have subjective viewpoints and misinformed opinions. The real test is in whether these are transformed or not when supplied with the necessary corrective data. Again, irony abounds.

Is should also be remembered that in order for those who are interested to really work here the forum as a whole has to be guarded from silliness and trolls.

Another thing I wanted to say was that, even though the only stuff I've read of Gurdjieff has been on this forum, he seems to me to be a bit of a hard-ass. I'm not sure if a strictly Gurdjieffian approach would work well in an online forum format, i.e. I'm not sure that it translates well into a sort of mass impersonalized setting OSIT, I could be wrong. ;)

Well its not a wholly Gurdjieffian approach, and indeed Gurdjieff was very, very firm. But then you have to ponder the question as to why that was so. Why would a ‘man who knew the way’ have it so?

As others have noted, compared to G the method here is not as harsh. Perhaps the way as formulated by Gurdjieff and passed on by Ouspensky was a particular way for a particular time. We have to find ways to relate the system to our own times, reformulate it using the tools we have to hand now (which are far greater in number than in G/O’s time).

With some things though a certain firmness is called for, and from what I’ve seen from struggling with myself to apply the ideas, it will ever be so. Some people just do not seem to understand the ‘terror of the situation’ re. the predator’s mind, and the struggle required to break free of it.

For those who love themselves as they are, it is better for them that we do not waste their time.