The Vegetarian Myth

[Z...]

Hi Manille,
It's a human trait that we tend to find the data that will reinforce our beliefs as to not become uncomfortable with ourselves and the reality around us.
Keep reading the forum, you might find that it opens up doors you did not even know existed before ;)

Dito.
Any debate is useless if you are not willing or capable to look at certain biochemical and biological facts facts with unbiased and objective view. If you are willing and capable this forum is real treasure trove of such facts.

 

[Laura]

There are so many factors that could make a person ill later in the life. How could you know about them precisely?
A majestic example for me: My great grand mother that was vegetarian died at 91 and a lot of people that are eating meat every day are dying under 50...
So you see, I listen to my body. This is the best barometer for me.
Not what rules impose me. Rules can always be broken.

Unfortunately, YOU are the one living by the rules: if the Cs are correct, the negative aliens like to eat people who are vegetarians which is why they've been pushing vegetarianism on "spiritual seekers" for millennia.

 

[Nienna]

Personally I am half vegetarian. What does it mean? :)

It happens I stay years without having the taste for eating meat. It never affected my health. On the contrary, I noticed I tend to be more in anger and tired when I am in meat diet. I practice run on the water and this is how I can notice it.

Just because you do not notice any health affects now doesn't mean you won't in the future. Gluten and dairy take some time to show the affects they have on health. Gluten sensitivity caused many different health problems - physical, mental and emotional. And that is not just wheat, but all types of grains.

There are so many factors that could make a person ill later in the life. How could you know about them precisely?
A majestic example for me: My great grand mother that was vegetarian died at 91 and a lot of people that are eating meat every day are dying under 50...
So you see, I listen to my body. This is the best barometer for me.
Not what rules impose me. Rules can always be broken.

I used to think like you do - listened to myself (body) and here I am with a lot of health issues, many that have been helped by not eating as a vegetarian or only small amounts of meat and fat.

There is a lot of research and experiments done by a lot of us that has shown that being a vegetarian, or even just eating a high carb diet, is not as healthy as we have been led to believe by the medical associations/dietitians/nutritionists, who, by the way, make the rules. By doing an elimination diet and then reintroducing things back in one at a time, I've found out that all fruits and veggies, except green beans, zucchini and yellow squash inflame me. The body becomes accustomed to being abused and can no longer tell us what is really going on with it. At this point, I am doing the ketogenic diet and doing much better.

I eat only two meals a day - no snacks - and on every other day, I have bone broth and some meat with lots of fat for breakfast. For my second meal I have only bone broth and feel no hunger on all days. You never answered Laura's question, can you do this and not feel hungry with your diet? There is so much information here, but you have to have an open mind.

No matter, as long as your cup is full, there is no room for any other information. What we've learned is that you can't think the way you think with the way you think, especially being on a high carb diet. It really does mess with your mind. So until you can empty your cup a bit, you will do as you will do and no matter how much good information will change that. And that's okay. You can do whatever you want.

 

[mcb]

There are so many factors that could make a person ill later in the life. How could you know about them precisely?
...

Working alone, it is difficult. Being under the influence of a group or movement that takes a position and discourages questioning makes it even more difficult (which I say as a former "religious vegan"). Working within a group of people that actually want to discover the underlying reality can make it much easier.

Maybe a better reply would be to say that some factors are more important than others, and the most important ones are few enough in number that many people (not just in this forum) have been able to do something very positive about their health. You don't need to know, let alone address, every factor in order to make a major difference.

One thing in our favor is that there are more diseases by far than there are common causes of disease. So the "factors" you need to know about are the root causes about which you can do something. You really only need to know this "now," not "later in life," although there is considerable research that can help to understand why particular diseases develop the way later in life, if you know where to look and if you can identify bad research and bad reporting on research.

There are resources here in this forum that could help and, if you are really interested mainly in health issues and not all of the things that this forum is about, there are other public forums as well that focus specifically on nutrition and health. If you want to discover what you need to know in less time than what you have left, it is best to network with others.

 

[Manille]

Yes if they are correct. And I guess I am balanced in my way of seeing. These are my rules, the ones I follow. It doesn't mean my measure is not inhabited by respect.
I don't under-attack persons that are not living the same way as me, just because the Cs says something.

Vegeterians are not harming me. They made a choice, theirs. It's concerning their own life. I have already so many worthy things to fight, that it doesn't even cross my mind to attack them.
Who knows, maybe one day, another theory, would bring the lopsided idea, that the vegetarians develop something different, harmful for carnivores. Etc, etc.

I said that it happened in my life I didn't eat meat.
And even if I disliked it... I don't really understand the judgment there. All vegetarians are not fanatic new-age.

Negative aliens like to eat people who are vegetarians... really?
The world I want has no agreement with this kind of nightmare.

 

[anart]

Yes if they are correct. And I guess I am balanced in my way of seeing. These are my rules, the ones I follow. It doesn't mean my measure is not inhabited by respect.
I don't under-attack persons that are not living the same way as me, just because the Cs says something.

Please point out exactly who is doing that because it's quite the aggressive and unwarranted accusation.

Vegeterians are not harming me.

What does that have to do with anything?

They made a choice, theirs. It's concerning their own life. I have already so many worthy things to fight, that it doesn't even cross my mind to attack them.

Who is attacking them? We're discussing scientific fact.

Who knows, maybe one day, another theory, would bring the lopsided idea, that the vegetarians develop something different, harmful for carnivores. Etc, etc.

That's nonsense. There is fact and there is fantasy - they are not equal to one another.

I said that it happened in my life I didn't eat meat.
And even if I disliked it... I don't really understand the judgment there. All vegetarians are not fanatic new-age.

You are the only one passing judgment here.

Negative aliens like to eat people who are vegetarians... really?
The world I want has no agreement with this kind of nightmare.

The world you want is not the world you live in - it's vitally important to actually pay attention to the reality of the world you live in.

 

[Manille]

It happens I stay years without having the taste for eating meat. It never affected my health.

Just because you do not notice any health affects now doesn't mean you won't in the future.

I also think that people have different ideas about what it means, when something affects their health. As a vegetarian, you may feel that both your body and your mind feel light, and it makes moderate exercise pleasant while you are loaded on carbs. OK. But, is it really that great? Are you strong, can you do physical labor day in and day out without crashing? Do you withstand cold, or do you shiver at every draft? How is your mood if you are not exercising or munching on something? How's your dental health?

The weather is inconsequent, thus of course it happens it could be chilly. Dental health is first hereditary. My body is a strong body, with strong bones... I live on tiled floor. The cold of the tiles can pass through my feet and come to my nose, but it doesn't last long. I have a very strong immunity, dixit the science. Reading my blood analysis, my doctor told me that, in silence, my body had to defend itself against a strong disease. And that my red globules are much bigger than the normality. He was thinking about cancer or leukaemia. I was quite surprised. Truly speaking, I believed him half/half.
Here, I just came to share my experience. I don't feel like opening a report.
Light? Like those new-age people? No, because I had no aim in doing that.

I have a friend who is very proud of being a runner and a raw-food vegetarian, and considers herself very healthy. Then she lets slip that she has mood swings, her back is out, and her dentist's bills are killing her. But, she feels she is doing great, not noticing that how she feels is due to sugar and exercise-induced endorphine rushes. And nothing else.

What really proves it came from vegetarianism? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know her background, how she ate, material of the clothes she puts on, her environment, her work. Is running really her work? If so, it could have given her compression of the vertebrae, hence the back's pains.
Moods can come from so many other causes than food...
I am well myself, thank you.

 

[Jones]

The thing is though, you can't know that how you feel is optimal for you if you don't experiement with other things to see if anything changes. I thought chronic anxiety was a normal state of being until I changed some things and felt what it was like to be without anxiety. That meant taking some risks, challenging what I'd chosen to believe and facing some fears.

 

[Foxx]

Manille, have you read "Primal Body, Primal Mind" yet? Or any of the other nutrition books that have been read and discussed here? In fact, have you even read "The Vegetarian Myth"? Have you read the entire "Life Without Bread" and the "Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?" threads?

Without having done the reading here that everyone else has done in discussing these issues, there's no real discussion going on because you're sharing your subjective opinion and don't have the facts or knowledge that everyone else has on the issue. Until you've read the entirety of both of the threads I mentioned and at least some of the books referenced, despite what you may think, you're really not qualified to talk on the subject. It'd be like talking about brain surgery and your opinion on a very specific and technical procedure without having any of the background knowledge on the topic or knowing how the brain works. Do the reading first, then come back and discuss any issues that you find with it.

 

[Gaby]

The thing is though, you can't know that how you feel is optimal for you if you don't experiement with other things to see if anything changes. I thought chronic anxiety was a normal state of being until I changed some things and felt what it was like to be without anxiety. That meant taking some risks, challenging what I'd chosen to believe and facing some fears.

That is especially applicable when it comes to a vegetarian diet. Our mood brain chemical – serotonin – is made from the amino acid tryptophan, and there are no good plant sources of tryptophan. Plus, animal fat is required to actually make our brain chemicals work properly. Vegetarians eating mainly foods sources from soy, corn and wheat, veggies and fruits, have more mood problems including inflexibility in their thinking, anger, depression, anxiety, insomnia and bulimia. Women suffering from eating disorders are four times more likely to be vegetarian than women without eating disorders. Nutritional psychotherapist Julia Ross, author of The Mood Cure, has helped thousands of people with eating disorders and drug or alcohol addictions problems with a diet rich in animal fats and protein which provide for all the amino acids required to make the very brain chemicals these people are either lacking or have in such an unbalanced state.

Oftentimes the effect is insidious and you don't see it coming or don't recognize it. Just like a person with dementia doesn't see that he or she has cognitive problems, or are in self-denial. They typically are quick to say that everything is working perfectly okay with their heads.

We have smaller guts and we need packed-nutrient rich in energy for the whole body to work properly. This is why our brains grew bigger: we ate fat and meat. We have teeth to eat meat, not cellulose, and our stomachs secrete acid and enzymes to digest meat and fat. A vegetarian low fat diet doesn’t have enough nutrition for our long-term body’s maintenance and repair. It doesn’t have the nutrients required to nourish your brain. It is long being known that a lack of active vitamin B12 -found universally only in foods of animal origin – makes your brain shrink. Cognitive decline can be found with levels of vitamin B12 that are above the cutoffs of deficiency. And even when minimal quantities of animal-based foods are consumed along with traditional grains, there are higher rates of intestinal infection. This then has been shown to worsen an already compromised B12 status.

 

[Manille]

Yes if they are correct. And I guess I am balanced in my way of seeing. These are my rules, the ones I follow. It doesn't mean my measure is not inhabited by respect.
I don't under-attack persons that are not living the same way as me, just because the Cs says something.

Please point out exactly who is doing that because it's quite the aggressive and unwarranted accusation.

Did you read above my post or just my post?

Vegeterians are not harming me.

What does that have to do with anything?

They don't intend harm. As someone that is using a YOU in capital letter by an example. Was her coming a non agressive and unwarranted accusation? And my message before, was it about an aggressive and unwarranted accusation?

They made a choice, theirs. It's concerning their own life. I have already so many worthy things to fight, that it doesn't even cross my mind to attack them.

Who is attacking them? We're discussing scientific fact.

This sordid new invention telling negative aliens would eat vegetarian. One second, I dare to imagine the arguments... The way it can be praised. Scientific fact. You think only your politicians are corrupted? However that may be, I was not talking about the scientific proof you have for food, but to Laura's post. Did I forget to quote her?

It means a life to study the case, and even. And if our fact is the Cs... excuse me.
The environmental ground is so changeable, added to so many different external or internal factors; that's scientifically a wager to pretend detaining real proofs. The XXth's Life century has known electricity, nuclear, scalar and so many pollution, as well visible as invisible. That is everything is contaminated.

Trying to prove by A+B that vegetarianism is dangerous for the people is just puzzling me.
Of course if people don't eat at all, or just grains, I agree this is dangerous. For their health. Going from this point to the Cs's theory, there is a bridge. Why would I ask my brain to take it for granted? Besides that, all vegeterianism is not light, prana and seeds...

Who knows, maybe one day, another theory, would bring the lopsided idea, that the vegetarians develop something different, harmful for carnivores. Etc, etc.

That's nonsense. There is fact and there is fantasy - they are not equal to one another.

It was rather an ironic way to reflect the stupidity of Cs's theory, as to my eyes.

I said that it happened in my life I didn't eat meat.
And even if I disliked it... I don't really understand the judgment there. All vegetarians are not fanatic new-age.

You are the only one passing judgment here.

Laura wrote: "Unfortunately, YOU are the one living by the rules: if the Cs are correct, the negative aliens like to eat people who are vegetarians which is why they've been pushing vegetarianism on "spiritual seekers" for millennia. " One second, I dare to imagine the arguments...
I underline it was her first message and what you are answering to, though not written to you, is my answer to her welcome.

Sure, I didn't understand the you in capital letter, the "unfortunately" and that I am "the one living by the rules". I had exposed my freedom to be balanced and I was suddendly facing the fate of vegetarianism, who are pushed to be eaten by bad aliens.

Negative aliens like to eat people who are vegetarians... really?
The world I want has no agreement with this kind of nightmare.

The world you want is not the world you live in - it's vitally important to actually pay attention to the reality of the world you live in.

We don't have so many rights left, but I have still the one to protect my psyche from such things, I just consider crappy. And I won't go on writing on that, anyhow. At the less, I thank you for informing me about.
Until proved otherwise, Cs is not a reality, but a proposition of thought, and not one of the least. I wouldn't go and praise it, scaring people with that theory.

Edit=Quotes

 

[Laura]

We don't have so many rights left, but I have still the one to protect my psyche from such things, I just consider crappy. And I won't go on writing on that, anyhow. At the less, I thank you for informing me about.
Until proved otherwise, Cs is not a reality, but a proposition of thought, and not one of the least. I wouldn't go and praise it, scaring people with that theory.

I agree whole-heartedly with all you have said here. And since this is the CASSIOPAEAN forum, based on that work and subsequent research, (re-read the forum guidelines), and you are obviously NOT interested in that work or approach to life and reality, then I'm sure you will be happier elsewhere. After all, it was YOU who brought up the topic. That was like entering a chess club and saying to everyone there "Oh, by the way, I don't play chess, I play poker." So, go find a poker club.

 

[whitecoast]

We don't have so many rights left, but I have still the one to protect my psyche from such things, I just consider crappy. And I won't go on writing on that, anyhow. At the less, I thank you for informing me about. Until proved otherwise, Cs is not a reality, but a proposition of thought, and not one of the least. I wouldn't go and praise it, scaring people with that theory.

I think you're getting a little too fixed on that point Laura made about lizards eating vegetarians. The forum works by 1% inspiration (using what the C's say as a base for future research) and 99% perspiration (which is hard-research and fact-finding). You jump all over the inspiration part, saying such a thing is (correctly) unverifiable at this time. But what about all the hours of research on the benefits of meat-eating versus vegetarianism you can find on here? I understand there is a LOT to catch up on here with certain topics (the Life Without Bread thread is enormous, as I'm sure you see), so I think that before you offer an opinion (such as your knowing some meat-eaters who died early on) it would be beneficial to just take some time to read some of the things pieced together here, so we're all on the same page and discussing the same facts. Because sharing opinions does not give us objective knowledge; only facts do.

 

[Mountain Crown]

Negative aliens eating people is not so farfetched to someone up to speed on the research into the UFO phenomenon.

John Keel and Jacques Vallee reveal data even more shocking and bizarre. - fwiw

 

[Laura]

Negative aliens eating people is not so farfetched to someone up to speed on the research into the UFO phenomenon.

John Keel and Jacques Vallee reveal data even more shocking and bizarre. - fwiw

Yup.

But whitecoast is right, the Cs only mentioned that in passing, but NOW, after years of research and experimentation, we know WHY and even partly HOW.

It's always sad to see someone who simply will not open their eyes and look through the telescope.