The Vegetarian Myth
- Thread starter truth seeker
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mcb
The Living Force
Mrs. Peel said:
I asked about bones again when I was at my local WFM last weekend and they have them now! They can also cut them (some of these are large bones), which is good since trying to break bones with a hammer went nowhere when I tried it a couple of weeks ago. And those were little bones.
I had luck with freezing the bones, laying them on newspaper outside and hitting them with a sledge hammer. :) The best spot is the middle of the bone at the thinnest spot. It doesn't work on the joints though.
Easier to ask the butcher to saw them into chunks. I've also gotten them to quarter the hip joints and other big joints.
Easier to ask the butcher to saw them into chunks. I've also gotten them to quarter the hip joints and other big joints.
mcb
The Living Force
herondancer said:
I bought a grass-fed "marrow bone" today. Having the butcher cut it with his band saw did the trick, first time. :) Half of it is simmering now. I am still saving my beef rib and lamb shank bones, but by buying extra marrow bones I can have all the broth I want!
We seem to be drifting a little off topic here -- maybe these last few posts should move to the LWB or KD topics to stay with the other broth information?
mcb
The Living Force
I forgot to mention this earlier, but another public figure that has gone vegan is Bill Clinton. He's never been one of my role models, but I still wouldn't wish that on him.
From omnivore to vegan: The dietary education of Bill Clinton
_http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/08/18/bill.clinton.diet.vegan/index.html
Great. Turn the ship around and head for the reefs. Nice going.
From omnivore to vegan: The dietary education of Bill Clinton
_http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/08/18/bill.clinton.diet.vegan/index.html
Great. Turn the ship around and head for the reefs. Nice going.
I have just glanced through some of these posts and having been a vegetarian since I was twelve and raised three healthy, intelligent children all on a vegetarian diet, I am shocked at the general ideas being spat up here. I am vegetarian because I believe that animals have as much right to life as we do and under NO circumstances do I think that I am trying to make up for some major hurt in my life...past or present.
I KNOW that the way to spiritual enlightenment starts with "FIRST DO NO HARM!"
I am really beginning to think that your channeling is from an evil being :(
I KNOW that the way to spiritual enlightenment starts with "FIRST DO NO HARM!"
I am really beginning to think that your channeling is from an evil being :(
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
anty777 said:
Hi anty777, I think Lierre Keith (the author of the book The Vegetarian Myth) said it best when she said that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the ideals behind vegetarianism and veganism - they are absolutely valuable ideals. The issue is that a vegetarian diet itself is deeply damaging to the human organism and agriculture is deeply damaging to the biosphere - those are facts. I was a vegetarian for 24 years and am still working on healing the damage done from that diet after returning to meat eating almost three years ago. The damage a high carb diet (and all vegetarian diets are, by definition high carb) does to the human body is astounding. If you can open your mind just a bit and read Lierre Keith's book it will do you and your children a world of good. I'm speaking from first hand experience here, so hopefully your mind is not so closed as to be unable to learn a little bit more.
Heimdallr said:
And if you think its OK as long as we plant them, then what about the areas of the earth that must be cleared of most other life in order to mono-crop them? What about the destruction of so many soil organisms that are the foundation to so much life in the natural environment?
mcb
The Living Force
LQB said:
Healthy soil needs dead animals. Unhealthy soil needs synthetic fertilizers which come from dead animals. It seems you can't win if you just want animals to live. The best you could do is kill everything, which would indeed stop the killing (at least on this planet) and might well be a hidden agenda for some leaders!
Gimpy
The Living Force
anty777 said:
There are more than a few people here who have medical conditions that restrict what they eat. I happen to be one of those people.
I have Multiple Sclerosis, among other auto immune problems that include migraine, chronic pain, adrenal fatigue, and more. It was learning about the Ketogenic Diet and reading the other threads here on diet and health that was instrumental to me in recovering quality of life. Like many people who have MS, a vegetarian diet with little to no fat was pushed on me for quite a few years. When I tried it? It ruined what little quality of life I had, put me in the hospital, and disabled me.
I've worked very hard the last few years learning all I could about diet and optimal health. The Ketogenic diet, based on quality meat and animal fat, has been the only thing that has helped.
The gastroenterologist I saw when hospitalized advised against eating vegetables or fiber, ever. At that time, I thought he was crazy, because I'd been brainwashed into thinking I had to have carbs to survive. Turns out, he was right. There is no such thing as a necessary carbohydrate. As long as I stick to eating bone broths, and meats, I do very well. Its taken about 2 years to gradually transition to the Keto diet, and all my doctors have been amazed at the results: a sustained 70 lb weight loss, stable blood pressure, perfect cholesterol, no more migraines, and reduced medications. I've gone from being on 12 medications to 4. That's huge.
If I ate as I once did, with all the vegetarian foods? I'd be back in the hospital. This makes the notion that eating vegan or vegetarian is equal to 'doing no harm' or proving an ideal to be non-nonsensical to me.
mpescador
A Disturbance in the Force
anart said:
Having scanned through this thread it seems there are a number of ex- now anti-vegetarians who, according to themselves, have inflicted damage upon themselves and in the disillusion (and shame? of having been wrong) find some relief, maybe even pleasure in climbing on a high horse and looking down upon vegetarians as victims of this and that - and, hence, as underlings that need the enlightened beings' pity or sympathy (or ridicule).
That is hardly surprising, in much the same way that there might be something about the original post about morals and vegetarians. Most actions are not deliberate, conscious and controlled, but simply pass by our consciousness and awareness, if we are lucky, as they rise from the electrochemical soup that always boils below what we know as "us".
There might be something at play here that is common in social movements - when the fad wears off, when the energy required to sustain the ideal vanishes - and manifest, for instance, in many anarchists turning terribly conservative in their 30 or 40s. Likewise, there is often a tendency of the (re)reborn to want to announce - loudly - that they are now on the inside, in the know, and have the terms and concepts tripped down, - and what better way to do so, than to verbally whip the infidels?
In short, there is an "us and them" current running through this thread - when I read it, as there is in many forums on this and related topics throughout cyberspace - that reminds me of that 43rd president of the Land of the Fee, but then there is probably some reason that can be uncovered for why I read like that. And if you see that, then tell me, but don't tell me that it is not a wee bit problematic to inform and express one's identity in terms of exclusion of "the other". In that sense, nothing has changed since neolithic times, except that a symbolic order has been pulled down over our eyes and ears, fogged the mind, to the degree that people now live in words and ideas to a degree more significant than than actual practices. First religion, then liberalism/science/democracy, now diets.
All that said, I really do not see any difference between killing animals or plants, except perhaps that it is more unfair to kill a plant, since it is rather difficult for it to escape. Maybe that is why it finds revenge in the gut....
By the way, "DO NO HARM" is a good thing, but then you'd need to find some ditch to die in solitude in without anyone having to deal with you. The rest of existence, my dear, is a killing for survival. Life is death and death is life, only punctuated by sex, so fuck it!
Off to kill a lot of creepy-crawlies with my spade, need to do some gardening for my herbs.....
H
Hildegarda
Guest
mpescador said:
It really is much simpler than that, mpescador. I for one do not base my identity on what I eat. I have other areas of personal experience that are way more meaningful and important to me, to do that. And whatever they may be, I continue to critically observe them and analyze them, rather than plunging into them without thinking. This is what Work is all about. The diet, however, is simply about the food that is the best fuel for the body to live. Paleo works, vegetarianism doesn't, as we found out through both research and experience. That's all there is to it.
