The Vegetarian Myth

[mcb]

Thanks Dugdeep,

Make that two.

Here is another review:

_http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/books-arts/review-food-the-meat-fix-by-john-nicholson-26843253.html

14 April 2012
...After all, he told them, he was living a healthy life, he didn't eat meat or processed food and he should be the poster boy for healthy living. Yet here he was, plagued with stomach problems, depressed and constantly farting -- and that was the least of his physical woes.

There you go -- the kind healthy life that the PTB would want you to have. He just didn't appreciate his blessings. (I'm being facetious again, for anyone that might be in doubt. But it is actually true, from a certain pathological point of view, and I find it very helpful to be aware of that view. It explains an awful lot of what goes on.)

 

[Laura]

Thanks from me, too, Dugdeep! Looks like a really good read considering what all we have experienced here in this house as a consequence of evil veggies! I am still amazed by the fact that after changing my diet, there is no more bloating or gas of any kind.

 

[513]

i'M ON PAGE 70

"In the animist world view, everything is alive: rocks, rain, rivers,
birds. According to Luther Standing Bear:

From Wakan Tanka, the Great Spirit, there came a great unifying
force that flowed in and through all things—the flowers
of the plains, blowing wind, rocks, trees, birds, animals—and
was the same force that had been breathed into the first [human].
Thus all things were kindred...

I only recently found out about my Chicasaw heritage (Native American)
This is strangely connected to me and what I've learned, WOW!

Thanks for all the info everyone! I've got so much to learn!

 

[Sol Logos]

I've been watching Allan Savory's TED talk. http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html

I thought it was relevant to this thread in terms of the failing of agriculture and the failing of our current environmental policies. Savory advocates an increase in grass fed livestock, not a decrease (based on the mainstream view that overgrazing causes land degradation). It's amazing to see the turnaround in land / top soil health based on these methods. So anyhow, Savory sees this as a way to resolve much of the increasing rates of desertification and climate issues as well. His approach though is about managing this in a holistic way rather than a myopic way (ie taking into account the whole view - human / environmental / cultural etc.). I think you might find it interesting if you've not heard his stuff before.

 

[nicklebleu]

... and if you boil vegetables, you loose a lot of their nutritive content.

Medulin,

I don't think that this is true. While boiling, cooking ect. may reduce the content of some nutrients it also considerably reduces the content of antinutrients. And it releases nutrients that are inside the cells that we cannot usually digest. So the net effect is positive.

The raw fooders juice a lot of their food, which has a somewhat similar effect by breaking up the cell walls and releasing nutients.

 

[Gertrudes]

... and if you boil vegetables, you loose a lot of their nutritive content.

Medulin,

I don't think that this is true. While boiling, cooking ect. may reduce the content of some nutrients it also considerably reduces the content of antinutrients. And it releases nutrients that are inside the cells that we cannot usually digest. So the net effect is positive.

The raw fooders juice a lot of their food, which has a somewhat similar effect by breaking up the cell walls and releasing nutients.

Well, some cooking methods seem to preserve nutritional content better than others. With vegetables I have always chosen steaming instead of boiling, as far as the research I've read goes, boiling seems to be the cooking method that causes greater loss. Stir fry is also another good alternative.

In any case, I agree with nicklebleu, eating them raw will keep all of those antinutrients "alive" which makes the vegetable harder to digest, and potentially even harmful for the digestive system.

 

[whitecoast]

I have a question related somewhat to the ethics of meat, so I've decided to post it here instead of in the Keto thread or elsewhere. Currently I'm having a lot of difficulty obtaining enough fat in my diet. The 80% animal fat macro-nutrient ratio I've heard tossed around on here has been quite difficult to reach and, I haven't failed to notice, quite different from the natural macro-nutrient ratios we find in actual animals (even whales are just 50% blubber). My main source of beef fat is a local meat store that specializes in grass-fed beef, naturally raised pork and chickens, et cetera. Since they just throw that out normally, I get it for free, but it's often mixed with a lot of connective tissue that doesn't rend (I normally toss this into my bone broth), so if I order ~5 lbs of beef fat I'd get maybe 1 kg of rendered final product.

I've considered finding other local operations that may sell lard, tallow, or fat, and I'm doing a telephone blitz tomorrow. But I'm wondering if in the meantime you'd consider just using animal lard from the grocery store? I have serious issues with eating products of factory-farmed animals (scared of absorbing the stress hormones and traumatized souls of the animals I guess :/). I can barely stomach the idea of veal, for example. But given the time lag in between ordering, obtaining, rendering and eating fat, I'm at a loss to calculate whether this avoidance of mine has more to do with internal or external considering. Any suggestions?

 

[Ollie]

... But I'm wondering if in the meantime you'd consider just using animal lard from the grocery store? I have serious issues with eating products of factory-farmed animals (scared of absorbing the stress hormones and traumatized souls of the animals I guess :/). I can barely stomach the idea of veal, for example. But given the time lag in between ordering, obtaining, rendering and eating fat, I'm at a loss to calculate whether this avoidance of mine has more to do with internal or external considering. Any suggestions?

Personally I avoid shop/supermarket lard as it is usually hydrogenated, and nothing like 'real lard'. The only shop lard I use is from a 'known' butcher who makes his own each week (a somewhat 'old' tradition in the town).

As for your avoidance, on the one hand, it seems to me that you may be running a programme here, and on the other there are likely health hazards from eating factory-farmed animals due what they have been fed (often 'rubbish').

Keep on rendering what you know is safe, buy enough to keep ahead of yourself. :)

Not sure if this helps you or not.

 

[Carl]

I have a question related somewhat to the ethics of meat, so I've decided to post it here instead of in the Keto thread or elsewhere. Currently I'm having a lot of difficulty obtaining enough fat in my diet. The 80% animal fat macro-nutrient ratio I've heard tossed around on here has been quite difficult to reach and, I haven't failed to notice, quite different from the natural macro-nutrient ratios we find in actual animals (even whales are just 50% blubber). My main source of beef fat is a local meat store that specializes in grass-fed beef, naturally raised pork and chickens, et cetera. Since they just throw that out normally, I get it for free, but it's often mixed with a lot of connective tissue that doesn't rend (I normally toss this into my bone broth), so if I order ~5 lbs of beef fat I'd get maybe 1 kg of rendered final product.

I've considered finding other local operations that may sell lard, tallow, or fat, and I'm doing a telephone blitz tomorrow. But I'm wondering if in the meantime you'd consider just using animal lard from the grocery store? I have serious issues with eating products of factory-farmed animals (scared of absorbing the stress hormones and traumatized souls of the animals I guess :/ ). I can barely stomach the idea of veal, for example. But given the time lag in between ordering, obtaining, rendering and eating fat, I'm at a loss to calculate whether this avoidance of mine has more to do with internal or external considering. Any suggestions?

I'm sure youve covered this before, but maybe it's worth repeating. The split is meant to be based on caloric intake, not the weight of the food.

For instance, say you eat 100g of protein (400kcal) and 100g of fat (900kcal), which is quite possible from just eating meat such as pork belly. This is still 70% of calories from fat, quite easily done (900/1300).

Then If you add a bit more fat, in the form of butter/coconut oil chocolate, lard in bone broth, pate, or sauces, you can very easily reach 200g of fat in one day, which would be 1800kcal. Keeping the protein at 100g for this example, you now have your 80% fat intake (1800/2200).

Only things I buy from the grocery store are eggs, butter, and things like salt etc. I only buy eggs and butter because of my lack of vehicle to visit local farms. Fat that you render yourself will definitely be better than store bought lard, but depending on where you live, some of the butters in supermarkets are grass fed and of a high quality.

 

[Laura]

I have a question related somewhat to the ethics of meat, so I've decided to post it here instead of in the Keto thread or elsewhere. Currently I'm having a lot of difficulty obtaining enough fat in my diet. The 80% animal fat macro-nutrient ratio I've heard tossed around on here has been quite difficult to reach and, I haven't failed to notice, quite different from the natural macro-nutrient ratios we find in actual animals (even whales are just 50% blubber). My main source of beef fat is a local meat store that specializes in grass-fed beef, naturally raised pork and chickens, et cetera. Since they just throw that out normally, I get it for free, but it's often mixed with a lot of connective tissue that doesn't rend (I normally toss this into my bone broth), so if I order ~5 lbs of beef fat I'd get maybe 1 kg of rendered final product.

I've considered finding other local operations that may sell lard, tallow, or fat, and I'm doing a telephone blitz tomorrow. But I'm wondering if in the meantime you'd consider just using animal lard from the grocery store? I have serious issues with eating products of factory-farmed animals (scared of absorbing the stress hormones and traumatized souls of the animals I guess :/). I can barely stomach the idea of veal, for example. But given the time lag in between ordering, obtaining, rendering and eating fat, I'm at a loss to calculate whether this avoidance of mine has more to do with internal or external considering. Any suggestions?

Have you read "The Vegetarian Myth"?

It seems that your problem is simply an issue of sourcing your products. Sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils. We eat a lot of butter to make up our fat content. We also render our own lard from the fat we cut off the pork halves we buy from the guy who raises the pigs in the forest on acorns. After rendering, we strain it into canning jars and process it in a boiling bath to sterilize and seal them. That lard with be worth its weight in gold if times get tough and food shortages really get severe.

 

[StrangeCaptain]

Have you read "The Vegetarian Myth"?

It seems that your problem is simply an issue of sourcing your products. Sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils. We eat a lot of butter to make up our fat content. We also render our own lard from the fat we cut off the pork halves we buy from the guy who raises the pigs in the forest on acorns. After rendering, we strain it into canning jars and process it in a boiling bath to sterilize and seal them. That lard with be worth its weight in gold if times get tough and food shortages really get severe.

Does this pig farmer advertise his services? In other words, I am trying to learn the key words in France for alternative methods of feeding livestock so that I can search in my area. "Bio" is not exactly what I am searching for, as per some conversations I have had here, there does not seem to be the same distinction between, for example, grass-fed beef and grain-fed beef even if it is "bio". So... Was this farmer making a selling point as to how his pigs are fed, or did you have to ask around until you found a farmer with the right diet for his animals?

 

[Pierre]

Does this pig farmer advertise his services?

Our supplier has a website, you can access it here

In other words, I am trying to learn the key words in France for alternative methods of feeding livestock so that I can search in my area. "Bio" is not exactly what I am searching for, as per some conversations I have had here, there does not seem to be the same distinction between, for example, grass-fed beef and grain-fed beef even if it is "bio". So... Was this farmer making a selling point as to how his pigs are fed, or did you have to ask around until you found a farmer with the right diet for his animals?

If you're looking for pigs which are fed "good" food, you've to search for terms like "porc nourri aux glands"

 

[whitecoast]

Thanks for the comments, Prodigal Son, Carlise, and Laura.

[quote author=Prodigal Son]Keep on rendering what you know is safe, buy enough to keep ahead of yourself.[/quote]

Keeping ahead of myself is all it comes down to, I think. I've decided to stop lamenting that past-me didn't do enough homework to feed himself properly.

Thanks for your explanation about the ratio being cased on calories and not weight, Carlise. That makes much more sense :)

[quote author=Laura]Have you read "The Vegetarian Myth"?

It seems that your problem is simply an issue of sourcing your products. Sometimes we have to choose the lesser of two evils. We eat a lot of butter to make up our fat content. We also render our own lard from the fat we cut off the pork halves we buy from the guy who raises the pigs in the forest on acorns. After rendering, we strain it into canning jars and process it in a boiling bath to sterilize and seal them. That lard with be worth its weight in gold if times get tough and food shortages really get severe.[/quote]

Yes, Lierre Keith was one of those who convinced me to quit being a vegetarian. But it seems I still have a streak of immoderation when it comes to food ethics.

I've tried butter and ghee, but in terms of taste and consistency there's no replacing good lard or tallow :p I managed to find another supplier in the metro, and will try and look for additional ones so I can begin regular orders and stockpiling. If I ask my boss nicely, maybe I can use the autoclave at work to sterilize and seal them... I'm surprised I didn't think of that sooner actually

 

[Laura]

Just putting the jars in a big pot and covering (one inch) with water and bringing to the boil for a half hour is enough I think.

 

[Mal7]

I went for my regular biennial visit to the dentist this week. I still don't have any fillings, but the dentist did notice I had a few little gaps between my teeth that were trapping little bits of food. Chicken or bacon or anything fibrous can find its way into these holes, and cause a deterioration in gum health if it is left there. "Well I have been eating a lot more bacon recently" I told the dentist.

He prescribed some wooden triangular-profile dental toothpicks. Rubbing these over the gums is also supposed to strengthen them. Although dental floss can also be used, the dentist thought most people didn't know how to floss properly, and ended up giving up on bothering to floss, so now he just recommends the toothpicks which are easier to use.

I thought this tip about dental toothpicks might be useful for others switching to a high-bacon diet.