The Vegetarian Myth
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mcb
The Living Force
Re: The Vegetarian Stance
My head is spinning, again. I have been having "gut problems" all of my life. Certain problems shifted when I went to a high fiber vegan diet but the underlying problem was still there. A year or so ago I upped the fiber even more and made myself sick from it (and backed off and cut out wheat). Now it is starting to make sense - the info I had about fiber was wrong.
I found "Fiber Menace" for Kindle - handy because I will be offline for a couple of days starting in about an hour. Another piece of the puzzle falls into place.
My head is spinning, again. I have been having "gut problems" all of my life. Certain problems shifted when I went to a high fiber vegan diet but the underlying problem was still there. A year or so ago I upped the fiber even more and made myself sick from it (and backed off and cut out wheat). Now it is starting to make sense - the info I had about fiber was wrong.
I found "Fiber Menace" for Kindle - handy because I will be offline for a couple of days starting in about an hour. Another piece of the puzzle falls into place.
daniello
Padawan Learner
Re: The Vegetarian Stance
Well, I was referring to my own experience. Once I was on a diet, which was based on eating only meat and dairy products ( it was a strict low carbohydrate diet), and after about three months the problem that I mentioned above was really serious. A lot of pain. Nevertheless, the diet combined with riding on a stationary bike allowed me to lose 20 kg.dugdeep said:
doublea1535
Jedi Council Member
Re: The Vegetarian Stance
Thank you Laura for the book recommendation.
Laura said:
Thank you Laura for the book recommendation.
Re: The Vegetarian Stance
Yeah the Kindle version is the one I'm reading right now. I'm only 10% of the way through but he's certainly got my attention. I've got a few problems with some of his claims, but I'll give it til the end to see if he clarifies his position more.
Megan said:
Yeah the Kindle version is the one I'm reading right now. I'm only 10% of the way through but he's certainly got my attention. I've got a few problems with some of his claims, but I'll give it til the end to see if he clarifies his position more.
mcb
The Living Force
Re: The Vegetarian Stance
On the other hand I am not in the dire situation that the author of Fiber Menace found himself, and I am not convinced (yet) that going "fiber free" is the best thing for me or most people to do. The book provides enough information, though, to experiment. I lowered my fiber intake over the weekend and, as predicted, the gas and discomfort settled down, due to reduced fermentation. I don't often see that happen. I am all too well aware, though, of what can happen next.
I have been trying to trace how I got into this situation in the first place. I read "Diet For A Small Planet" in 1976, and experimented with fiber supplements, although I didn't go vegetarian at that time or continue with the added fiber. In about 1988 a doctor told me I had IBS and recommended a fiber supplement. In 1996 I went vegan, resolving the obvious IBS issues but introducing a slew of new ones (as described in the book). That lasted about 2 years, but I have been consuming a relatively large about of fiber ever since and probably have some of the conditions the book describes.
My guess at this point is that the original problem was gluten sensitivity, and that the increased fiber later masked that problem with new ones. My fear, of course, is that lowering fiber will cause a return of all the problems I had before, and to the degree that fiber consumption is addictive, that is a real concern. If the underlying problem was gluten sensitivity, however, it may not be nearly as bad as before because I am not about to go back to eating gluten.
The only way to find out is to try it.
After finishing the book yesterday I am trying to figure out where to go from here before I go shopping tonight. I think the book has to be interpreted in the context of one's personal experiences with food, and with the other information about diet and health that we have here. I am in a high risk situation, having eaten a high-fiber diet for a long time and being at an age (60) where it tends to catch up with you, and I have symptoms that indicate it may be catching up with me.dugdeep said:
On the other hand I am not in the dire situation that the author of Fiber Menace found himself, and I am not convinced (yet) that going "fiber free" is the best thing for me or most people to do. The book provides enough information, though, to experiment. I lowered my fiber intake over the weekend and, as predicted, the gas and discomfort settled down, due to reduced fermentation. I don't often see that happen. I am all too well aware, though, of what can happen next.
I have been trying to trace how I got into this situation in the first place. I read "Diet For A Small Planet" in 1976, and experimented with fiber supplements, although I didn't go vegetarian at that time or continue with the added fiber. In about 1988 a doctor told me I had IBS and recommended a fiber supplement. In 1996 I went vegan, resolving the obvious IBS issues but introducing a slew of new ones (as described in the book). That lasted about 2 years, but I have been consuming a relatively large about of fiber ever since and probably have some of the conditions the book describes.
My guess at this point is that the original problem was gluten sensitivity, and that the increased fiber later masked that problem with new ones. My fear, of course, is that lowering fiber will cause a return of all the problems I had before, and to the degree that fiber consumption is addictive, that is a real concern. If the underlying problem was gluten sensitivity, however, it may not be nearly as bad as before because I am not about to go back to eating gluten.
The only way to find out is to try it.
Re: The Vegetarian Stance
Hi Megan
I wasn't quite sure what you're concerns where, so I looked back and saw you mentioned you're appetite not working properly (not feeling full).
I'm pretty sure this will be related to gluten (I never felt full when I was eating gluten/dairy) and probably sleep too.....my appetite happened to do the opposite after cutting out gluten/dairy, I never felt hungry and lost too much weight.
The one thing that works well for me (and others have mentioned it too) is eating a large breakfast (preferably with a good quantity of meat/fat), should leave you satisfied and feeling full until way past lunch time. :)
Hi Megan
I wasn't quite sure what you're concerns where, so I looked back and saw you mentioned you're appetite not working properly (not feeling full).
I'm pretty sure this will be related to gluten (I never felt full when I was eating gluten/dairy) and probably sleep too.....my appetite happened to do the opposite after cutting out gluten/dairy, I never felt hungry and lost too much weight.
The one thing that works well for me (and others have mentioned it too) is eating a large breakfast (preferably with a good quantity of meat/fat), should leave you satisfied and feeling full until way past lunch time. :)
Stranger
Jedi
Re: The Vegetarian Stance
Remember that the author is not suggesting a fiber free diet. In fact he is talking about a diet low in (processed) fiber.
“If you consume minor quantities of fiber from natural, unprocessed food, there isn't anything wrong with it…” (first chapter)
His concerns are "too much processed fiber and the resulting digestive, metabolic, and cardiovascular disorders."
Everyone following the general advices given on this forum or who just knows the basic dietary coherences should be living relatively fiber free already, especially completely free of processed fibers.
I cut out almost all grains after a short time of living without gluten. I just found out that I don't view them as "food" anymoore. It isn't natural how grains were bred and grown since the beginning of civilisation, also I don't feel the need to eat something, which is almost a non-food if you don't process it through grinding, cooking, etc.
But, when I choose to eat them sometimes I prefer buckwheat.
Megan said:
Remember that the author is not suggesting a fiber free diet. In fact he is talking about a diet low in (processed) fiber.
“If you consume minor quantities of fiber from natural, unprocessed food, there isn't anything wrong with it…” (first chapter)
His concerns are "too much processed fiber and the resulting digestive, metabolic, and cardiovascular disorders."
Everyone following the general advices given on this forum or who just knows the basic dietary coherences should be living relatively fiber free already, especially completely free of processed fibers.
I cut out almost all grains after a short time of living without gluten. I just found out that I don't view them as "food" anymoore. It isn't natural how grains were bred and grown since the beginning of civilisation, also I don't feel the need to eat something, which is almost a non-food if you don't process it through grinding, cooking, etc.
But, when I choose to eat them sometimes I prefer buckwheat.
mcb
The Living Force
Re: The Vegetarian Stance
We have not, that I am aware of, had very much discussion yet about this book. Other books we use here have proven to be very helpful for some things, but not everything in them checks out. I have little doubt that that will be the case here as well.
Have you read the entire book? I am in the target population for which he suggests a fiber-free diet (perhaps not permanently, depending upon what healing takes place over time). Perhaps you are not.Stranger said:
We have not, that I am aware of, had very much discussion yet about this book. Other books we use here have proven to be very helpful for some things, but not everything in them checks out. I have little doubt that that will be the case here as well.
mcb
The Living Force
Re: The Vegetarian Stance
My appetite has settled down from eliminating wheat, corn, rice, processed foods and the like. It's not the issue now. I have also stopped gaining weight, but I am overweight and not losing any (and Fiber Menace seems to explain why).
I don't want for my health to decline from damage caused by fiber, as seems to be happening now, but I don't want to repeat the horrible experiences of the recent past either (as a result of lowering fiber intake). And I don't know how much to trust this one author. Unlike the books in the "recommended reading" list, I can see that this one is pointing right straight to the causes of the biggest problem I have, the one that needs to be addressed before the others. I am just not at all sure about the suggested solution, which reflects the author's personal health problems.
I am still stunned at finding out that so much of the "good" dietary advice I have been using for many years is not valid. I was told in 1995 that "fiber sweeps out cholesterol." I can see now that this information probably came from one flawed study mentioned in the book that erroneously concluded that increasing fiber could decrease cholesterol. But it is another lesson and I am having so much "fun."
My "concerns" include IBS-type constipation/diarrhea cycling in my "pre-fiber" years and and, in more recent years (and as I age) no diarrhea but constant gas and bloating (fermentation), weight gain, and occasional severe constipation with bleeding and moderately severe intestinal cramping. The severe constipation obviously causes physical damage, and Fiber Menace goes into great detail about what damage it does and the even worse things it leads to. The experience is enough to scare anybody into consuming more fiber the way doctors recommend, thereby ensuring that things get worse in the long run.RedFox said:
My appetite has settled down from eliminating wheat, corn, rice, processed foods and the like. It's not the issue now. I have also stopped gaining weight, but I am overweight and not losing any (and Fiber Menace seems to explain why).
I don't want for my health to decline from damage caused by fiber, as seems to be happening now, but I don't want to repeat the horrible experiences of the recent past either (as a result of lowering fiber intake). And I don't know how much to trust this one author. Unlike the books in the "recommended reading" list, I can see that this one is pointing right straight to the causes of the biggest problem I have, the one that needs to be addressed before the others. I am just not at all sure about the suggested solution, which reflects the author's personal health problems.
I am still stunned at finding out that so much of the "good" dietary advice I have been using for many years is not valid. I was told in 1995 that "fiber sweeps out cholesterol." I can see now that this information probably came from one flawed study mentioned in the book that erroneously concluded that increasing fiber could decrease cholesterol. But it is another lesson and I am having so much "fun."
