The Vegetarian Myth

[monksgirl]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

...

My diet now (following the modified USD) is similar to what it was back then, but with some natural/organic meat and with no gluten-containing whole grains, rice (other than organic wild rice), or soy. I just completed a second reintroduction of wheat, confirming that I am gluten sensitive.

After some time eating only "agreeable" foods many people seem to find their appetite settling down and telling them when and what to eat. I use it now as a guide as to how much meat to have. When I was vegan, it was telling me to eat a little meat, but I wasn't listening because I had a "vegan stance." ....

I have been reading more since my sister was here in October and we did the paleo, and have just gone off soy, as it contains gliadin, and all beans because they contain lectins. So with stayin off the grains and dairy, it really reduces selection available, and I am still on a learning curve for what I can prepare that we will all eat and be sufficiently satisfying. One daughter has type A blood, and she has always hated eating meat, but she will eat Quorn, which has pea powder, so I don't want to eat that. I have had IBS for a long time, and thought I was doing OK with the vegan diet, until I developed rosacea, which is another autoimmune inflammatory disorder, so I am still trying to find what works for me and eliminates symptoms. It is a bit frustrating to read contradictory information from different outlets on some of the nutrients.

Mod's note: Edited to fix the quotation boxes

 

[HifromGrace]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Speaking of which, I tend to crave tree nuts, at least once I start eating them, and I don't feel as well after eating a lot of them. It doesn't hurt anywhere (as it does 2 days after eating gluten), but my energy level drops. My solution has been to avoid nut milks and salted shelled nuts, and to buy the nuts I like still in the shell so that I only eat a few at a time, until I grow tired of shelling them and my appetite says to stop as well.

Try soaking the nuts in water over night and then rinse them (like w/grains & legumes). It's a very differnt taste & texture, still crisp but not hard on the molars; plus makes it more nutritious and digetible.

 

[clearmiddle]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

I have been reading more since my sister was here in October and we did the paleo, and have just gone off soy, as it contains gliadin, and all beans because they contain lectins. So with stayin off the grains and dairy, it really reduces selection available, and I am still on a learning curve for what I can prepare that we will all eat and be sufficiently satisfying. One daughter has type A blood, and she has always hated eating meat, but she will eat Quorn, which has pea powder, so I don't want to eat that. I have had IBS for a long time, and thought I was doing OK with the vegan diet, until I developed rosacea, which is another autoimmune inflammatory disorder, so I am still trying to find what works for me and eliminates symptoms. It is a bit frustrating to read contradictory information from different outlets on some of the nutrients.

It is frustrating, but you learn as you go and it becomes easier, and your ideas about "selection" change. One of the harder things is that everyone is different, and what works for other people sometimes may not work for you. I am still dealing with IBS myself, and Dr. Murphree's steps have not helped. Staying gluten-free has helped, however.

A central issue for me, for a very long time, has been that my appetite did not seem to work properly. I would still be hungry when I was full. Tracking down the different causes of that has helped tremendously, and now being "satisfied" after a meal is usually not a problem at all. That is a huge change to be able to make within a few months after literally decades of no progress. But it was a long few months and a lot of work, and frustrating at times. Have you seen the recent Sleep thread? I am reading Lights Out now.

 

[daniello]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Well, being a vegetarian for almost 2 years made me feel fine. Even better than I felt while eating meat. Around 3 months ago, accidentaly I had my blood tests done. All parameters indicated balance.

Therefore, there are also other motives, leading humans to become vegetarians. Some took their decision by not willing to interrupt against someone's free will, some just cannot imagine themselves consciously killing/hurting an animal. (These are also motives that lead me to becoming a vegetarian) What do you think, are there any programmes or emotional issues standing behind this given factors?

 

[shijing]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

What do you think, are there any programmes or emotional issues standing behind this given factors?

Have you had a chance to read through this entire thread yet? If you do, I think you'll find some clues :)

 

[daniello]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Have you had a chance to read through this entire thread yet? If you do, I think you'll find some clues :)

Hihi, yes, I have found notes about traumatic experiences from the past :) But as long as I remember I haven't had a similar one, and that's why I put this question.

 

[shijing]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Have you had a chance to read through this entire thread yet? If you do, I think you'll find some clues :)

Hihi, yes, I have found notes about traumatic experiences from the past :) But as long as I remember I haven't had a similar one, and that's why I put this question.

Here is another post that I think is relevant to what you're asking, if I understand your question correctly.

 

[daniello]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Thank you very much for the input Shijing.

They give more importance to animal life than to vegetal life maybe because of an anthropocentric vision of the world: animals look like human more than vegetables do, therefore they deserve more respect. Though lettuces, cows, apples or chickens are all part of the creation, they all are living entities.

This idea has gone through my mind for a couple of times, but I didn't put enough attention into it. Now, there's a lot to consider.
Thanks again, for both of you.

 

[Gonzo]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Hi Daniello,

I was a vegetarian for several years because I couldn't tolerate the thought of killing and eating an animal. I somehow imagined they were more sentient and aware than lower life forms and, therefore, deserving of a complete life.

It also helped solidify my resolve when I was presented with pro-vegetarian misinformation that stated humans were not designed to eat meat.

As a teenager, I found myself suspicious of mainstream thinking. I was certain the truth about our reality was being withheld from us and authorities were lying to us. The vegetarian movement in the 80's seemed to represent a fresh and reasonable voice - a voice I thought I could trust.

Then, after several years of eating plants, I read The Secret Life of Plants and learned plants could feel pain and probably possessed consciousness.

Since I couldn't live on air, I realized I had no choice but to take life to eat and survive. I could no longer decide one life's value over another using faulty logic and emotional thinking and had to choose taking food that presented optimum health, thereby reducing the lives I need to take to survive. I try to say grace, thanking the Divine Cosmic Mind and the organisms that gave their lives up for me each time I eat, be it flesh or plant.

Oddly enough, once I realized the misinformation and speciesist attitudes of vegetarianism, and decided to start eating meat again, it actually tasted wonderful and I had no problem digesting what I might have regurgitated a few months prior.

Gonzo

 

[treesparrow]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

I've recently increased the amount of meat and animal fat that I eat and although this is a little anecdotal I have noticed that it does seem to be helping me in my fight against oesteo arthritis. I consume bacon, ham and eggs for breakfast and have beef later in the day. Some of my fingers now move more freely and my little finger, for instance, can now easily bend completely over and touch the palm of my hand, whereas a couple of months ago I was unable to do this. In addition, the deposits of uric acid (one of the signs of arthritis) that show up as small whitish protuberances close to my knuckles have significantly decreased in size.

I can only put these improvements down to diet change, specifically increased meat consumption, because over the years I've other tried literally dozens of remedies to combat arthritis including some suggested on the forum. These have included magnesium spraying and later on the dmso gel (at 90% strength) but to no positive effect.

It may sound a bit silly and simplistic but that increase in animal fat intake does seem to be literally lubricating my joints.

It's perhaps still to early to say categorcally that this looks like a cure or remedy but it's very encouraging.

Gawd all those wasted years eating mainly vegetables - what a complete dunderhead I've been. Talk about in thinking a veggie diet was healthy.

 

[LQB]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

I've recently increased the amount of meat and animal fat that I eat and although this is a little anecdotal I have noticed that it does seem to be helping me in my fight against oesteo arthritis. I consume bacon, ham and eggs for breakfast and have beef later in the day. Some of my fingers now move more freely and my little finger, for instance, can now easily bend completely over and touch the palm of my hand, whereas a couple of months ago I was unable to do this. In addition, the deposits of uric acid (one of the signs of arthritis) that show up as small whitish protuberances close to my knuckles have significantly decreased in size.

I can only put these improvements down to diet change, specifically increased meat consumption, because over the years I've other tried literally dozens of remedies to combat arthritis including some suggested on the forum. These have included magnesium spraying and later on the dmso gel (at 90% strength) but to no positive effect.

It may sound a bit silly and simplistic but that increase in animal fat intake does seem to be literally lubricating my joints.

It's perhaps still to early to say categorcally that this looks like a cure or remedy but it's very encouraging.

That's great treesparrow - congrats!!

Gawd all those wasted years eating mainly vegetables - what a complete dunderhead I've been. Talk about in thinking a veggie diet was healthy.

A good example of so many things in this life that we find, on inspection and study, are just big fat lies.

 

[dant]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Tree-sparrow:
Humorously, the Tinman in OZ needed
his oil in order to be mobile!

 

[Hildegarda]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

It may sound a bit silly and simplistic but that increase in animal fat intake does seem to be literally lubricating my joints.
[..]
Gawd all those wasted years eating mainly vegetables - what a complete dunderhead I've been.

this is great to hear, treesparrow!

 

[daniello]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Gawd all those wasted years eating mainly vegetables - what a complete dunderhead I've been. Talk about in thinking a veggie diet was healthy.

Though, don't abandon vegetables completely, otherwise you may have problems with... defecating :D

 

[dugdeep]

Re: The Vegetarian Stance

Though, don't abandon vegetables completely, otherwise you may have problems with... defecating :D

The more I look into the whole "fibre issue", the more I think statements like this are just a product of the same old mythology that's been circulating for over a century. As far as I can tell, meat does not require fibre to push it through the digestive tract. John Kellogg is often credited with starting that particular rumor, and he was a pretty wacky dude, to say the least. It's been promoted ever since through breakfast cereal health claims, like Kellogg's namesake company for example, and spurious science.

From a book called The Fiber Menace:
[quote author=http://www.gutsense.org/fibermenace/fm_intro.html]
... if you believe that the introduction of fiber into the American diet came about as a result of thorough academic research, methodical clinical investigation, and penetrating peer reviews, I’m sorry to disappoint you, but it didn’t. It’s actually based on profane sacrilege, fanatical misogynism, medieval prudishness, common quackery, crass commercialism, incomprehensible medical incompetence, and, by the legal standards of today, negligence and malpractice.[/quote]
(This site is awesome, BTW. I just ordered the book because of it!)

I think someone could be on a completely meat diet and still have no issues with defecation. I believe that fibre is needed to evacuate the starch that it accompanies, which is why those eating refined grains get constipated - they've removed the fibre that pushes the starch through. Nature seems to have a handy habit of including the things we need for our health in the foods that we eat. Meat has no fibre, probably because it doesn't need it. Grains have fibre because without it, you're gonna get backed up!

In my experience, meat pushes itself through. The idea that meat 'requires' fibre for proper digestion is just more anti-meat propaganda, as far as I can tell. The traditional Inuit diet is a case in point - it was very near entirely meat and Weston A. Price, when studying the Inuit around the 1940s, reported they had perfect digestion. And it's no real surprise given the high-fat nature of the traditional Inuit diet; fat moves your bowels!

Again, from the Fiber Menace site (emphasis mine):

“Motility is influenced by the energy content and composition of the meal, but not by its volume or pH. Energy-rich meals with a high fat content increase motility; carbohydrates and proteins have no effect. (R.F. Schmidt, G. Thews. Colonic Motility. Human Physiology, 2nd edition. 29.7:730.)

When all is said and done, I don't think I've ever tried a fibre supplement that didn't completely back me up except maybe ground flax; psylium being the absolute worst. The nutritionist solution to this is to take laxative herbs with the fibre to push it through, but isn't this defeating the purpose?

This is just a few random thoughts. I'm going to give The Fiber Menace a read and write a post about it.