The Vegetarian Myth

[Oxajil]

Thought I'd share something interesting. Recently I had to attend a Solgar workshop (supplement brand, produced in Manhattan). My colleague told the lady who was giving the workshop that people working at Solgar must be pretty healthy as they have easy access to all these supplements. She laughed and said yes, she said they often do blood tests to see how everybody's vitamin/mineral levels etc. are.

She then said "however, out of all the people, there were two who were not doing as well and they would often call in sick. Interestingly, they're the only vegetarians and they'd always talk about how healthy their lifestyle is. That doesn't seem to be the case!" I wasn't surprised...

 

[herondancer]

Thought I'd share something interesting. Recently I had to attend a Solgar workshop (supplement brand, produced in Manhattan). My colleague told the lady who was giving the workshop that people working at Solgar must be pretty healthy as they have easy access to all these supplements. She laughed and said yes, she said they often do blood tests to see how everybody's vitamin/mineral levels etc. are.

She then said "however, out of all the people, there were two who were not doing as well and they would often call in sick. Interestingly, they're the only vegetarians and they'd always talk about how healthy their lifestyle is. That doesn't seem to be the case!" I wasn't surprised...

Chalk up another one for the carnivores! ;) I wonder how the veggie-dudes explain it to themselves? The probably fall back on the "I'm detoxing" idea.

 

[Laura]

My theory about human evolution, meat eating and vegan apparent traits is that human came from some monkeys similar to present day monkeys that were mostly eating succulent leafs and some bugs here and there, living happily up in tree inside jungle, completely adapted to a vegan lifestyle.

Then came major climatic disruptions at onset of Quaternary glaciation 2.58Myr ago causing major evolutionary pressure. The vast existing jungle then began to shrink to become steppe (grassland plains). More and more primitive monkeys were forced to try to live in these expanding grass lands.

Evolutionary pressure made these primitive vegan monkeys to adapt to a new lifestyle, hunting grass feeding animals. The best way to survive in such changing conditions were versatility and adaptability under short intervals. The mean to achieve this were provided by natural selection favoring a powerfull brain.

Quaternary glaciation resulted in frequent advance and retreat of glaciers causing never ending climatic disruptions. Specialized animals like sharp toothed fur animals could not change their "tooling" within a short time but primitive human could make tools and wear clothing when it is cold, then remove it when temperature is too hot, allowing them to do persistence hunting.

Since we came from a primitive ancestor that was vegan, this is why we still have "apparent" traits of being vegan, but we evolved for the last ~2Myr being meat eaters, only recently (~15kyr max) that human began agriculture, this a too short interval to readapt to a new way of feeding...

Works for me. Except it seems that cooking meat was one of the major factors in the evolution of the human brain.

Also, some monkeys (chimps too) actually do hunt and eat meat including other monkeys.

Also, for those who think we ought to eat like our ancestral monkey forebears, let's notice that monkeys that eat little meat, and never cooked, are STILL MONKEYS.

Regarding the last bit:

Since we came from a primitive ancestor that was vegan, this is why we still have "apparent" traits of being vegan, but we evolved for the last ~2Myr being meat eaters, only recently (~15kyr max) that human began agriculture, this a too short interval to readapt to a new way of feeding...

Since we do, indeed, seem to have these apparent traits/abilities to consume and live on veggies to some extent, it could be thought that by doing so, we would devolve instead of evolve.

 

[Voyageur]

Thought I'd share something interesting. Recently I had to attend a Solgar workshop (supplement brand, produced in Manhattan). My colleague told the lady who was giving the workshop that people working at Solgar must be pretty healthy as they have easy access to all these supplements. She laughed and said yes, she said they often do blood tests to see how everybody's vitamin/mineral levels etc. are.

She then said "however, out of all the people, there were two who were not doing as well and they would often call in sick. Interestingly, they're the only vegetarians and they'd always talk about how healthy their lifestyle is. That doesn't seem to be the case!" I wasn't surprised...

Chalk up another one for the carnivores! ;) I wonder how the veggie-dudes explain it to themselves? The probably fall back on the "I'm detoxing" idea.

Speaking of "veggie-dudes", well over a year ago, perhaps closer to two, my physician packed up and left for new beginnings and transferred files to the replacement from out of town, and had said not to worry, he is great. It took no time at all for stories to start leaking out concerning his bedside manner, and he is certainly suffering from a massive case of veggie-dietary bias as he is trying to convert each and every patient of his, or even just people he meets, telling them that if you don't switch to veggies, this is why you will remain sick, or get sick, or this is why you will get cancer of the colon etc. He does not even know people or their backgrounds, he just rolls off these veggie-dictates and people are frankly just scared to death of him; imagine that, their physician.

He has called and left messages for me to come in; alas, I don't think it will work out between us, so no point in calling back. Now without having a doctor and not many other options, I'm going to have to ask my friend the vet if ever help is needed, at least he has good understanding of biology and myths.

P.s. Ran into an older retired doctor (he once ran a decent sized hospital) and he was smoking his pipe like it was his best friend and telling me all kinds of sad stories concerning the doctoring of today and the corrupted business of pharma et al. Thought to myself that if only people had access to more doctors like him, that we might not be in such a bad medical way.

 

[herondancer]

P.s. Ran into an older retired doctor (he once ran a decent sized hospital) and he was smoking his pipe like it was his best friend and telling me all kinds of sad stories concerning the doctoring of today and the corrupted business of pharma et al. Thought to myself that if only people had access to more doctors like him, that we might not be in such a bad medical way.

Wow! It's a pity he's retired. It would be great if there was some sort of mentoring program that could be set up with 'old-time' physicians like him. The medical profession is bereft of common sense today. It reminds me that I had a paediatrician like that when I was young. We got the very basic vacs (oral polio, smallpox, light DPR) at a reasonable schedule of one per a year because that was what was done, but for the rest of it? "Every kid should eat a pound of dirt by the time they're six!" We were outside all the time.

 

[A Jay]

P.s. Ran into an older retired doctor (he once ran a decent sized hospital) and he was smoking his pipe like it was his best friend and telling me all kinds of sad stories concerning the doctoring of today and the corrupted business of pharma et al. Thought to myself that if only people had access to more doctors like him, that we might not be in such a bad medical way.

Wow! It's a pity he's retired. It would be great if there was some sort of mentoring program that could be set up with 'old-time' physicians like him. The medical profession is bereft of common sense today. It reminds me that I had a paediatrician like that when I was young. We got the very basic vacs (oral polio, smallpox, light DPR) at a reasonable schedule of one per a year because that was what was done, but for the rest of it? "Every kid should eat a pound of dirt by the time they're six!" We were outside all the time.

That is a real pity. He sounds like a sharp fellow! My mother's physician was somewhat similar. Very supportive of my mother's adopting the paleo diet and using alternative therapies and nutrition to correct imbalances or issues. Unfortunately last time I saw him he was on the verge of retiring and the doctor he was grooming to take over the practice seemed pretty much like most doctors or med students I've known. Not sure if this new doc had a similar stance to the paleo diet and alternatives to pharmacological therapies, but I think having a mentor or apprenticeship program with 'old-time' physicians would be really beneficial for everyone, doctors included.

 

[Voyageur]

P.s. Ran into an older retired doctor (he once ran a decent sized hospital) and he was smoking his pipe like it was his best friend and telling me all kinds of sad stories concerning the doctoring of today and the corrupted business of pharma et al. Thought to myself that if only people had access to more doctors like him, that we might not be in such a bad medical way.

Wow! It's a pity he's retired. It would be great if there was some sort of mentoring program that could be set up with 'old-time' physicians like him. The medical profession is bereft of common sense today. It reminds me that I had a paediatrician like that when I was young. We got the very basic vacs (oral polio, smallpox, light DPR) at a reasonable schedule of one per a year because that was what was done, but for the rest of it? "Every kid should eat a pound of dirt by the time they're six!" We were outside all the time.

That is a real pity. He sounds like a sharp fellow! My mother's physician was somewhat similar. Very supportive of my mother's adopting the paleo diet and using alternative therapies and nutrition to correct imbalances or issues. Unfortunately last time I saw him he was on the verge of retiring and the doctor he was grooming to take over the practice seemed pretty much like most doctors or med students I've known. Not sure if this new doc had a similar stance to the paleo diet and alternatives to pharmacological therapies, but I think having a mentor or apprenticeship program with 'old-time' physicians would be really beneficial for everyone, doctors included.

Ya, it is a pity, yet there are good smart doctors out there, and suspect that they are often perhaps in a semi-state of paralysis within the very system in which they practice; perhaps scared to operate outside the confines of modern day medicine. Sort of like the high cholesterol diagnosis whereby the playbook says Statin drug, so if you did not prescribe this you might be called on it and even punished? Even though knowledge of dietary concerns might be extremely low, the system's discourse is to say 'no' saturated fat et al. I don't know exactly, yet suspect the medical associations can be very brutal on their physician members if they step out of line, not to mention having the chance of increased legal suites of malpractice if they don't conform. Sad.

The old doc reminded me a little of Bones, from Star Trek, coming back through time and chastising the doctors as being mad for doing what they were doing to people, which is where we are at in our time-line.

 

[nicklebleu]

Ya, it is a pity, yet there are good smart doctors out there, and suspect that they are often perhaps in a semi-state of paralysis within the very system in which they practice; perhaps scared to operate outside the confines of modern day medicine. Sort of like the high cholesterol diagnosis whereby the playbook says Statin drug, so if you did not prescribe this you might be called on it and even punished? Even though knowledge of dietary concerns might be extremely low, the system's discourse is to say 'no' saturated fat et al. I don't know exactly, yet suspect the medical associations can be very brutal on their physician members if they step out of line, not to mention having the chance of increased legal suites of malpractice if they don't conform. Sad.

Unfortunately that's the reality - there is still a little bit of wriggle-room, but it gets smaller and smaller every year, especially if you are billing via some government scheme or health insurance. If you are completely on your own and patients pay out of their own pocket (AND you advertise yourself as an 'alternative' health care provider AND make sure, that they are still seeing a 'regular' GP), then you have a little bit more leeway, because then it's the patient's decision whom he wishes to follow. Of course you cannot openly talk against useless therapies, like statins, chemo etc., even if you present peer-reviewed research. Pharmaceutical companies have a hold over the whole system, from top to bottom.

Yes, it's a sad state of affairs, indeed!

 

[hlat]

Ya, it is a pity, yet there are good smart doctors out there, and suspect that they are often perhaps in a semi-state of paralysis within the very system in which they practice; perhaps scared to operate outside the confines of modern day medicine. Sort of like the high cholesterol diagnosis whereby the playbook says Statin drug, so if you did not prescribe this you might be called on it and even punished? Even though knowledge of dietary concerns might be extremely low, the system's discourse is to say 'no' saturated fat et al. I don't know exactly, yet suspect the medical associations can be very brutal on their physician members if they step out of line, not to mention having the chance of increased legal suites of malpractice if they don't conform. Sad.

Unfortunately that's the reality - there is still a little bit of wriggle-room, but it gets smaller and smaller every year, especially if you are billing via some government scheme or health insurance. If you are completely on your own and patients pay out of their own pocket (AND you advertise yourself as an 'alternative' health care provider AND make sure, that they are still seeing a 'regular' GP), then you have a little bit more leeway, because then it's the patient's decision whom he wishes to follow. Of course you cannot openly talk against useless therapies, like statins, chemo etc., even if you present peer-reviewed research. Pharmaceutical companies have a hold over the whole system, from top to bottom.

Yes, it's a sad state of affairs, indeed!

Guilty or not guilty in the legal system is built on the conventional, mainstream system that recognizes conventional medical "experts" and discredits alternative knowledge. Just one medical malpractice guilty verdict could be in the millions of dollars, and I think that is a heavy stick that keeps many doctors in line with the mainstream system.

 

[herondancer]

Yep. Threatening to hit new docs in the wallet when they are fresh out of school is a very effective control mechanism. Even the ones who have double qualifications, like the functional medicine folks, have to be very careful. It's a really sad situation of the one who are truly dedicated to healing, that they are blocked from using all possible approaches.

 

[Alexander Gottwald]

After lots of experiments with vegetarian and vegan diets (up to vegan raw) my body (especially joints and teeth) was in a very bad state.

What was extremely helpful was encountering Lierre Keith, who I also via Skype and an interview I did with her (unfortunately lost for technical reasons) met as a very honest and down to earth human being, and her book "The Vegetarian Myth". This interview someone else did is still on YT and worth watching.

As my little son had developed teeth problems (although still breastfed ast that time and apart from that eating nothing that contained sugar nor wheat) I was very grateful for Ramiel Nagel and his program to cure tooth decay by changing the diet to this. Result: My son (7 1/2 years) didn't need to see a dentist in his whole life so far.

I hope this is useful to others as well. :)

 

[PERLOU]

Merci pour le partage de ces expériences...

Thank you for sharing these experiences ...

 

[Alexander Gottwald]

De rien! - You're welcome! - De nada! - Da nich für! ;)

There's so much disinfo out there on the effects veganism. I'm happy you're sharing some alternative information about it here! :)

 

[Yas]

De rien! - You're welcome! - De nada! - Da nich für! ;)

There's so much disinfo out there on the effects veganism. I'm happy you're sharing some alternative information about it here! :)

Thank you Razorblade! It's amazing how much the right information can do for us and our loved ones! And definitely appalling to see the amount of disinfo that's being spread out there. At least we've got the means to share, just like you did here, hoping that maybe a bit of truth can reach someone out there who might benefit from it ;)

 

[CdeSouza]

I did make one ardent vegetarian concede one point about vegetarianism and the environment: you cannot maintain a healthy vegetarian diet (and less so a vegan one) in any part of the world where there is seasonal variation, especially long winters without shipping food in from elsewhere.

In the past, Northern Europeans ate a meat-heavy diet because beyond root vegetables and a handful of longer-lasting fruits such as apples, there weren't many options.

As for psychological reasons.... often vegetarianism is a cover for eating disorders or anorexia. I've also known quite a few who are the virtue-signalling type, which some psychologists believe is a need to mask a deep down sense of guilt.