The Vegetarian Myth

Adaryn

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I didnt know anything about this author when i started reading, and i honestly thought it was written by a man, until the radical feminist approach became apparent. I have nothing against radical feminists, but they often tend to be just the female versions of male chauvinists.
Well, I read her book several years ago, and I don't really remember her taking a radical feminist's stance. Or in any case, it didn't catch my eye at the time. So I made a quick search on Google, and I found this (see below). It doesn't invalidate the arguments put forth in her book (she's far from the only one or the first one demonstrating how a vegetarian/vegan diet is bad for both humans and the planet) but it just shows that it's not because someone gets it right about 1 thing that they're right about other things or that they don't spread disinfo and harmful propaganda in other areas. But we kind of already knew that.

“… the sex class men is simply male privilege and gender identity and it needs to be abolished if women are ever to be free. ” Thus says Lierre Keith a radical feminist who spoke at a local library Saturday.

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UPDATE Thursday, May 29 2017: According to David Thompson’s Blog:

“‘Ms Keith has long been a vocal champion of vandalism, harassment and “militant action,” and taken at their own words, she and her colleagues would like to see those they deem “associated” with environmental accidents being killed by the state.’ … ‘In March 2010 Ms Keith was herself targeted for “militant action” by disgruntled vegans even more radical and pious than she, and who disrupted her lecture at an anarchist book fair by pelting Ms Keith with chili-flavoured cream pies. An experience our fearless titan found both bewildering and outrageous.’

UPDATE Monday, June 9, 2014: Now blogged up over at my friends at Victory Girls as well:

“Another, less amusing, example of lesbian privilege comes to us from my dear friend Daylight Disinfectant as a result of an investigation he did on campus conferences at a local University. He attended a radical feminist conference (brave of any man) and got some prime video of many crazy things but the one that stood out to me as a great example of this lesbian privilege concept was a woman named Lierre Keith who gave a presentation during which she had a giant slide of a penis on the wall behind her calling for the abolition of the white race (of which she is a member) and of men (who she bears a striking resemblance to).”

Dateline Saturday, May 24, 2014 – Portland, Oregon: Yep at times there were kids in the room and yep again, this was your local library. Lierre Keith with a large penis projected behind her head, supported a call call for the end of the white race, and made her own demand: an end to the sex we call “Men.” Keith is a Radical Feminist with a group called “Deep Green Resistance” which distributed literature from the taxpayer funded facility. The FAQ included the following information:

“Radical feminists are critical of gender itself. We are not gender reformists – we are gender *abolitionists*. [emphasis added] Without the socially constructed gender rolesthat form the basis of patriarchy, all people would be free to dress, behave and love others in whatever way they wished, no matter what kind of body they had”

Keith finishes her speech with a call to an end to masculinity itself:

“Liberty and a living planet will only be won when masculinity, its religion, its economics, it’s psychology and it’s sex is resisted and finally defeated.”

These are about 5 minutes of speech excerpts in full HD. Here’s the brochure distributed by Lierre Keith’s group, Deep Green Resistance (DGR), front and back. Here’s the DGR handout inside leaflet, front, and back.
 

Maat

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Well, I read her book several years ago, and I don't really remember her taking a radical feminist's stance. Or in any case, it didn't catch my eye at the time. So I made a quick search on Google, and I found this (see below). It doesn't invalidate the arguments put forth in her book (she's far from the only one or the first one demonstrating how a vegetarian/vegan diet is bad for both humans and the planet) but it just shows that it's not because someone gets it right about 1 thing that they're right about other things or that they don't spread disinfo and harmful propaganda in other areas. But we kind of already knew that.
A wise thing to always keep in mind in our world ! Indeed.
 

Gandalf

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Another testimony of a former vegan:

https://www.amazon.com/Meat-Fix-lif...8&qid=1538326957&sr=8-1&keywords=the+meat+fix

For twenty-six years, John Nicholson was a vegetarian. No meat, no fish, no guilt. He was a walking advert for healthy eating. Brown rice, fruit, vegetables, low fat and low cholesterol - in the battle of good food versus bad, he should have been on the winning side. But the opposite was true: his diet was making him ill. Really ill. Joint pain? Tick. Exhaustion? Tick. Chronic IBS and piles? Tick, tick. Not to mention the fat belly and the sky-high cholesterol. His mind may have forgotten its taste for flesh and blood but had his body? Tired of being sick, John decided to do the unthinkable: eat meat. The results were spectacular. Twenty-four hours later, he felt better. After forty-eight hours he was fighting fit. Twelve months on, he had become a new person. He was first shocked, then delighted, then damn angry. The Meat Fix charts one man's journey to the top of the food chain, uncovering an alternate universe of research condemning everything we think we know about healthy eating as little more than illusion, guesswork and marketing. The body is a temple - but, as John Nicholson discovered, we may have forgotten how to worship it.
 

lahje

The Force is Strong With This One
ehh.. i read the book with on open mind, but more i look into it, more bs it seems. many of her claims were straight out lies and had little to no evidence supporting it. In radio KPFA interview she sais that vegans eat meat once a week! wtf! how can the vegans have their deficiencies like she claims if they eat meat once a week!! in that same interview she says that in her "vegan" years she cheated by eating eggs and dairy "every change she got". thats some veganism there! in the book she described her vegan meals consisting mainly of bread and soymilk and lettuce. no wonder she got sick.

in her twitter account some of her latest posts are:

"thank you! more people need to see that valuing human (and animal) life is stupid!"

"thanks! I don't tweet much anymore. I prefer private communication with other anti-civ activists. Kill the humans, save the earth!"

Do you really think, that a person who has that much grudge and hatred towards humans would give you good health advice?
 

Adaryn

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Do you really think, that a person who has that much grudge and hatred towards humans would give you good health advice?
It's a fake twitter account… most probably created by offended vegans. Look up the blurb below the profile pic: "Radical anti-civilization activist and writer with an inexplicable grudge against vegans. [parody]"
 

Ant22

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Well, I read her book several years ago, and I don't really remember her taking a radical feminist's stance. Or in any case, it didn't catch my eye at the time. So I made a quick search on Google, and I found this (see below). It doesn't invalidate the arguments put forth in her book (she's far from the only one or the first one demonstrating how a vegetarian/vegan diet is bad for both humans and the planet) but it just shows that it's not because someone gets it right about 1 thing that they're right about other things or that they don't spread disinfo and harmful propaganda in other areas. But we kind of already knew that.

Isn't this character assassination an actual PsyPp technique where the truth is allowed to be revealed by someone whose credentials and/or trustworthiness are dodgy, or are later undermined, to get people to throw the baby (the truth) out with the bathwater? It reminds me of Rebekah Roth, the book author who revealed details on 9/11, only to be discredited as a fake person who was never a flight attendant? There's a thread about it on the forum, this link will take you to the post where the discussion turns towards discreditation of Rebekah Roth: Methodical Illusion - 9/11 truth in a fiction novel?

Roth might have been a fraud but this doesn't make her revelations and dot connecting about 9/11 any less correct. Lierre Keith may be a hardcore feminist but this doesn't make her research into vegetarianism and conclusions any less correct.

Lahje, I think you don't really care about the truth. You are comfortable in your illusion and your emotionally charged dietary choices. Well, I'd suggest some caution there: Does Lying and Believing Lies Damage the Brain?

I can't say I blame you: I've fallen into that trap before myself so I know how hard it is to see the wood from the trees.

Moreover, I was vegetarian/vegan for 12 years myself so I know how hard it is to accept that a diet that involves killing beings I love so much is in fact the way to go. Making an intellectual decision when emotions scream that this is wrong is incredibly painful, yet strengthening in the long run.
 
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Ant22

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Lahje, I think you grabbed the revelations about Lierre Keith's feminist views like it's a perfect excuse to to stick to your dietary choices and refuse to assess the facts and data.

If you don't want to believe the author of the book, I'd like to point out that this thread has 74 pages of data that corroborates the author's findings. In this post Laura provided evidence that people on meat-free diets suffer from neurological damage to their nervous system and brain, becuase we need animal fat for our brain to function properly:

"There is overwhelming evidence that we can not be a vegetarian species. In 1972 the publication of two independent investigations confirmed this.-1-2They concerned fats. About half our brain and nervous system is composed of complicated, long-chain, fatty acids. These are also used in the walls of our blood vessels. Without them we cannot develop normally. These fatty acids do not occur in plants, although fatty acids in a simpler form do. This is where plant-eating herbivores come in. Over the year, the herbivores convert the simple fatty acids found in grasses and seeds into intermediate, more complicated forms. By eating the herbivores we can convert their stores of these fatty acids into the ones we need." {Sinclair AJ. Long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in mammalian brain. Proc Nutr Soc 1975; 34: 287-91. }

There is evidence that the ketogenic diet alleviates symptoms of dementia, which strengthens the point that the brain does need animal fat:

Studies show ketogenic diet's promising results for all stages of dementia -- Sott.net
Study finds ketogenic diet improves memory in adults with cognitive impairment -- Sott.net
What's a ketogenic diet, and can it really boost brain health? -- Sott.net

You may feel great now but doesn't the possibility of neurological and cognitive decline scare you at all? What guarantee do you have that your brain, which by its design and nature relies on animal fat to function properly, will not malfunction later on? If high protein/animal fat diets improve symptoms of dementia, I think it's fair to say that the same diet can help prevent this terrible condition. Are you happy to take the risk of suffering from it later in life?
 

Chu

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lahje, I think that taking some more time to process might help you. And also, reading Keith's arguments about health, leaving aside the moral and political aspect for a moment. I noticed that you didn't mention anything regarding actual health benefits. Perhaps you haven't gotten to that part of the book yet. But there are many others, and the evidence keeps piling up.

Being into permaculture, it's understandable that you would have a strong opinion on the subject. And I think there are many positive things about it. The problem, from where I sit, is that it is idealistic at this point in time, and given the way our system is set up, only a tiny portion of the population is going to try it. Also, it doesn't exclude having the diet that is best suited for you if you combine foods in the right way.

Like you, we have often speculated about people who need to be vegetarians, and those who don't. And based on a lot of reactions we've received, as well as on the literature and the emotional "fervor" of those who promote vegetarianism with a moralistic approach, we even speculated about types of people. Some may thrive being vegetarians because they have a "lower conscience" (for lack of a better word), while others see eating animals as a sacrament, and as a need so that their bodies function better, they can think better and try and do a little something to increase and share knowledge. Now, you may say, "well, vegetarians are doing that too", but so far, we've seen very little evidence of that. It's as if their brains are "mashed potatoes", very often. It's just what many of us have observed. It's not just about health, but about believing lies and letting their brains deteriorate as a consequence. (Just saw Ant22's post, and she described that better.)
 
Ant22, what is making so upset?

Lahje, I think you grabbed the revelations about Lierre Keith's feminist views like it's a perfect excuse to to stick to your dietary choices and refuse to assess the facts and data.

You may feel great now but doesn't the possibility of neurological and cognitive decline scare you at all? What guarantee do you have that your brain, which by its design and nature relies on animal fat to function properly, will not malfunction later on? If high protein/animal fat diets improve symptoms of dementia, I think it's fair to say that the same diet can help prevent this terrible condition. Are you happy to take the risk of suffering from it later in life?
Hell, he's only twenty-eight! You don't normally expect dementia at that age.

lahje wrote:
I'm still young and learning. (..) 28 years of age is just enough to realize how little I know.
He's only started reading Lierre Keith's book 22 hours ago... :read:
 

Ant22

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Ant22, what is making so upset?

I'm not upset Ursus Minor, this is an assumption on your part and it's incorrect. Lahje joined this discussion himself so I guess he was interested in having this conversation. My contribution to the conversation he started by sharing his take on this diet was to simply point out that there may be drawbacks of his choice which he hasn't taken into account.


Hell, he's only twenty-eight! You don't normally expect dementia at that age.

I didn't say he should worry about dementia at the age of 28, I referred to potential issues later in life. However, I do think that preventing dementia (and other health problems) later in life should start at an early age. 28 certainly isn't too early to start putting preventative measures in place to ensure good health until the very end.
 

lahje

The Force is Strong With This One
im a fast reader. i didnt read all of her book, only about 200 pages. but i got the general idea what her thought patterns are, and to be honest, her point could be summed up in less than 10 pages. it was highly repetitive. I haven't had any problems with vegetarian diet so far and i feel bad for the author that she got sick :(

but... when a vegan gets sick, its because of his/her vegan diet. when a carnivore/omnivore gets sick, its perfectly normal. ?? huh. i've tried every possible diet there is, and vegetarian (not vegan!) seems to suit me best. try out different things and decide what best suits you.

god bless
 

Lys

The Force is Strong With This One
im a fast reader. i didnt read all of her book, only about 200 pages. but i got the general idea what her thought patterns are, and to be honest, her point could be summed up in less than 10 pages. it was highly repetitive.
Hi, lahje.

I think that it is a really good thing that you are a fast reader, but then why didn't you take a few more minutes to read the whole book?
It happened to me sometimes to read books that are quite repetitive and it can be a bit boring but I wouldn't miss the chance to get a good information even if I don't agree with the whole thing.
I think that it is a good exercise to read a book entirely so you can take the best of it.

Moreover, she has done a good job of researching and she offers some good thoughts and options in order to improve our consumption habits in general.
And as you are interested in permaculture, you have probably some opinions in common with her.
It would be a shame to throw the whole thing out.
If you are not convinced, it doesn't matter, you can check on the veracity of her words from so many other sources, you will only gain more knowledge. And this is great!

Just my thoughts.
 

lahje

The Force is Strong With This One
Hi, lahje.

I think that it is a really good thing that you are a fast reader, but then why didn't you take a few more minutes to read the whole book?
It happened to me sometimes to read books that are quite repetitive and it can be a bit boring but I wouldn't miss the chance to get a good information even if I don't agree with the whole thing.
I think that it is a good exercise to read a book entirely so you can take the best of it.

Moreover, she has done a good job of researching and she offers some good thoughts and options in order to improve our consumption habits in general.
And as you are interested in permaculture, you have probably some opinions in common with her.
It would be a shame to throw the whole thing out.
If you are not convinced, it doesn't matter, you can check on the veracity of her words from so many other sources, you will only gain more knowledge. And this is great!

Just my thoughts.
Hey! thanks for your input. Yes, i agree that the author is very intelligent woman, and she has some great points, but ..
Are you familiar with the internet meme that goes:
"there are two kinds of people in the world:
those who can extrapolate from incompete data"

vegan/non-vegan ppl should work together not egainst each other!!! this is the trend around the world. "i like blue, you like red, lets fight!"
 

Lys

The Force is Strong With This One
Are you familiar with the internet meme that goes:
"there are two kinds of people in the world:
those who can extrapolate from incompete data"
No I'm not but the sentence seems incomplete.
But then, if you think that she extrapolates, don't hesitate to bring mistakes out and clarify your remarks.
The forum is made for this.

vegan/non-vegan ppl should work together not egainst each other!!!
I totally agree with the fact that we all should work together but it seems that veganism consists of reducing the whole matter of suffering only on the animal suffering.
How can you work with people who think that the only solution is to stop eating meat?
 
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