The Vegetarian Myth

do i really need to point this out..

there are two kinds of people in the world:
those who can extrapolate from incompete data
((AND THOSE WHO CANT))

what is 28 years next to infinity? nothing
what is 59 years next to infinity? nothing
what is 1113 years next to infitnity? nothing
 
"How can you work with people who think that the only solution is to stop eating meat?"
well.. that s a tricky question.
"how can u work with pl who think that there is only one solution?" there are infinite numbers of solutions.
stop eating meat is your own choice. its not the only solution, there are 100 and more solution to this problem. stop eating meat is a good start, if you feel like it. if you dont feel like it, you start from different space then. me, personally. i dont eat meat, because... well.. i dont have any rational reason for that. i just feel unwell if i eat meat. it's prolly not the most significant issue there is. you can eat meat and be a good person. you can chooce not to eat meat and be a good person. its all you. your 3d environment is reflection of your choises.
 
lahje said:
Sleeping on it, i have a better opinion on Lierre's book now. It was an entertaining read. But her thoughtpatterns seemed very unhealthy at some points. Her main argument against vegan food seemed to be: "someone, somewhere, killed an animal/insect in the progress of making this tomato, so you eating that tomato makes you a murdered!"
There's no differentation on direct involvement in killing and indirect involvement. If you lived by her words... You might own a car. Somewhere in the progress of making that car, a worker was killed in accident, so if you use that car, it's practically the same thing if you personally went there and shot the poor worker guy, and you should be ashemed of yourself using that car!
Click to expand...

This summation shows a distorted reading and interpretation of the book, which says something of your own thought patterns. Her point about agriculture was how devastating it's been to the earth. It's a system that takes and gives hardly anything back, which is the basis of anything that is destructive. It's been a while since I've read the book, but this issue was so well made that I remember it well. She describes everything from top soil to the entirety of ecosystems being destroyed. Once you start degrading top soil as perennial plants do (and this becomes emphasized with commercial monocrop practices), it destroys the micro-organisms, worms, etc., and builds and builds from there. Keith makes a strong case that modern agriculture is one of the most destructive forces humanity has practiced, and it is shortsighted in the least to think she's talking about some random field mouse accidentally getting chopped to pieces while turning the soil.
 
lahje said:
"how can u work with pl who think that there is only one solution?" there are infinite numbers of solutions.
Click to expand...

That's a nonsensical statement. You don't feel well eating meat? Fine, don't eat meat. There are solutions and then there are assumptions. It takes work to know the difference.
 
Why we needed to eat higher energy meals more than before? Because from Cassiopaean’s information there is heavy beaming is going on, Nuclear explosions and Higher Energy/Wave is pouring into Earth.

So, if we need to keep our frequency comparable with Cosmic Changes then meat is optimal choice.

Laura said:
Session 9 April 2011

A: Watch the diet!

Q: (L) Does that mean as I think, being very careful about any carbs?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) is that because we are being beamed as I suspect? This HAARP activity?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) And so one must keep that in mind while this heavy beaming is going on. One needs to be extra careful in all respects of hygiene: physical, mental, emotional, spiritual.

A: Yes. As we said a moment ago, there are forces seeking to interfere with the process.
....

(L) Next question on the list: Is the fukushima radiation negligible compared to the radiation due to 2,000 + nuclear explosions that have happened since 1945?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) How badly will it affect people?

A: Cumulatively, it is already bad.

Q: (L) you mean cumulatively the 2,000 nuclear explosions? And now, this on top of all of that is like critical mass of exposure?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) So, what does that mean for us.

A: DNA changes and diet help to keep the frequency stable.

Q: (L) What about all the people who are vegetarians?

A: They are nuclear “toast” since so much of their energy must be expended to raise the vibrations of their food.
...

Q: (L) What caused the TV personalities to talk gibberish?

A: All of the above mentioned factors.

Q: (L) So, it could be diet, their DNA is degrading, they’re not able to receive the cosmic changes – that sort of thing?

A: What do you think about the ”new” explosion 3 to 4 billion light years away? They think, that is.

{Here it seems the Cs are referring to recent news of an explosion that is going on in the center of a small galaxy said to be 3.8 billion light-years away. See:

Bizarre cosmic explosion observed

Cosmic Fireworks Erupt When Black Hole in Dragon's Belly Swallows Star | Space | TechNewsWorld

“Astronomers say they have never seen anything this bright, long-lasting and variable before. Usually gamma-ray bursts mark the end of a massive star and emission from these events never lasts more than a few hours. But radiation from the blast continues to brighten and fade from the location a week after the explosion.”

And: “Rather than the short-lived gamma-ray bursts typically associated with the death of a massive star -- most last no more than a few hours -- this explosion continues more than a week later to emanate pulses of high-energy cosmic radiation for an effect that's brighter, longer lasting, and more variable than scientists have ever seen.”}

Q: (L) Are you saying that it’s not as far away as they’re saying it is?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) What is it representing? What is it doing?

A: The wave has begun in earnest!

Q: (L) What do you mean?

A: Energy is pouring into your universe from higher densities.

Q: (L) Was there any connection between our neighbor’s death and our dog’s deteriorating health? Is it concentrated beaming or cosmic influences?

A: See all of the above.
Click to expand...



This session is going to have some blanks in it since we were discussing a health issue due to the fact that a member of our household was ill over Christmas and nearly died.

Session Date: January 3rd 2009

Q: (___) What about the diet I'm eating now: mostly fruits and vegetables and a little bit of meat?

A: More protein needed for amino acids of a natural and balanced type.

Q: (____) So that means the amino acid supplements I'm taking aren't good?

A: Stop and eat meat. Your type needs the highest level and quality of protein.

Q: (_____) But I don't like meat! (C) You used to! (J) You do like meat. (____) No I don't!

A: Many of your current ideas and preferences may not be "yours."

Q: (A****) We all kind of knew that...

A: Do not underestimate the opposition.
 
lahje said:
"How can you work with people who think that the only solution is to stop eating meat?"
well.. that s a tricky question.
"how can u work with pl who think that there is only one solution?" there are infinite numbers of solutions.
stop eating meat is your own choice. its not the only solution, there are 100 and more solution to this problem. stop eating meat is a good start, if you feel like it. if you dont feel like it, you start from different space then. me, personally. i dont eat meat, because... well.. i dont have any rational reason for that. i just feel unwell if i eat meat. it's prolly not the most significant issue there is. you can eat meat and be a good person. you can chooce not to eat meat and be a good person. its all you. your 3d environment is reflection of your choises.
Click to expand...


I think the correct question is: Since this is a Cassiopaean discussion forum, based on the Cassiopaean materials and philosophy/reality view, why would anyone come here and launch into a criticism of said materials/reality view and attempt subtly - or not-so-subtly - to argue against that position? You won't see anyone here on a vegetarian/vegan forum trying to convince anyone there to change their diet or asserting "well, I know you guys don't eat meat, but you know, I do and it's okay... ".

Lahje, you are welcome to your worldview and philosopy; no one is going to hunt you down and argue with you about it. However, I don't think this is the right forum for you; I don't think you have anything in common with its members. :wrongbar:
 
Indeed, you've entered the wrong bar, lahje!

lahje said:
They say also, that it defines a species how they treat their animal friends. Well.. You know how we treat our livestock... Caging them in small prisons barely having enough space to move just waiting to get slaughtered, fed with antibiotics their entire life too.. isn't that nice.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to post this little video here:


That's how some farmers treat their livestock. Most vegans don't care about them though. They're also 'horrible people' in their eyes.

Frankly, it is simply the way nature has developed that we are in need of meat. As a vegan, you would not survive in a society that lives mostly on whale blubber (not sure you could live off of plants if there's any growing), nor would you survive in a hunter and gatherer's society for long if you'd only eat berries. Meat is a multivitamin and a multimineral, not to mention the healthy and crucial fats it contains.

Someone can still eat meat and have respect for the animal, make sure it had a good quality of life, and be grateful for its meat. Sure, you can decide to ignore nature and your body's needs, with the belief that you're not harming any animal's life (while in fact you are)! And if you do, I agree that a place where your beliefs are shared would be where you'd feel at home. FWIW.
 
Oops, i got a little too drunk when i wrote here last time, sorry about that. I finished the book (the middle part i skipped before) now. It was ok, and she had some interesting trivia there. i dont wanna talk trash about your carnivore goddess anymore, but my opinion of her didnt change after finishing book. Ive made my choices how i want to eat and live, and it has been a result of intuition and research for me, 1 opposing opinion against 100 in favor is not enough to convince me that eating cows makes your life better. But we are all different, i have adapted well to my lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet, which might be more difficult to those of you who have eaten meat for 40-60 years and have gotten used to getting it in their system. Im quite surprised though that you believe her claims without anything else to prove them than her own undiagnosed illnesses. The funniest part was that she claims to be ex-vegan, when she has never been one. "Oh its okay, every vegan cheats on meat and milk and eggs every now and then!" No, you cant call yourself vegan if you eat meat and cheese and eggs!
Yes, it is possible to eat unhealthy as a vegan! It takes a lot of research and planning. I dont eat any soy myself, and bread is only an occasional treat once or twice a month.

It doesnt really matter what you eat, if meat makes you happy, go for it! And let us be vegetarian too, we who feel sick after eating meat! Okay im done with this subject now, see you guys and girls on some other thread!
 
In case you are still reading, just a few thoughts, lahje:

I would like to add my observations and many thoughts and feelings I have/had on the (for me) challenging subject of vegetarianism versus meat eating.

A look back: I come from a meat eating family but was at loggerheads with the idea of eating my furry friends. I also didn’t like the taste of most meats but it seems I did enjoy some and oddly enough (considering) raw (!) tenderloin.

My grandmother insisted I regularly eat a bit of meat (I often didn’t even chew it and washed it down with water) but when I became a teenager I was allowed to decide for myself and I stopped eating meat altogether. I carried on eating fish occasionally, however.

There were no vegetarians in my life – so it’s not as if I were influenced by anyone in my surroundings. However, the spirit of going to India etc. must have been “in the air” and I could imagine we do not just get influenced directly but most probably pick up what goes on around us in terms of Zeitgeist etc.

I did not know other vegetarians until much later when I went out with a vegetarian and my ex-husband was also a vegetarian. It was only with my husband that I stopped eating fish (not that he expected me to).

Being rather interested in spiritual development, I got into Indian teachings and liked the idea of being a kind kinder kindest person and all that. I have to say I never minded people who ate meat and it certainly never occured to me to convince them to become vegetarians but I did occasionally catch myself thinking I must be a spiritually more mature person for not wanting to eat it and that’s a big and widespread idea among seekers.

Still, I wanted my son to try meat and would often go to the meat section when we went shopping, point out what he could have and would buy some for him.

Before I got together with my present partner (who is even an active hunter!) I didn’t think I would be able to reconcile spiritual development with eating meat and it took me years to seriously come to terms with this and the only argument that convinced me was the C’s saying that we need the higher consciousness of the animals for our development and that plant life just doesn’t offer this.

The C’s often point out what is ideologically driven (wishful thinking) as opposed to actual cosmic order.We are here in 3d reality and are subjected to 3d laws and if we mess with these objective laws we mess up ourselves. Simple. The C’s help us a great deal to find out what the laws are and how to go about honouring these laws so that we may learn our lessons and move on.

Perhaps the-not-eating-meat business has something to do with trying to skip lessons. We have fancy ideas about what is nice and kind and pure etc. and some of these ideas may have their value with the next density but we are here and have to accept our relatively disgraced situation and earn ourselves a way out. The way out is the way through - as someone put it.

So eating flesh may well be a matter of having the humility to accept the laws we are finding ourselves subordinated to.

Curiously, I find myself surrounded by a lot of vegans and vegetarians at work and have experienced rather extreme judgment and aggression from them. They are soft and lovely a lot of the time but start frothing around their mouths as soon as diet is discussed That’s when many of them seem to instantly swing themselves on their moral high horse and become aggressive, highly judgmental and missionary like. I don’t know why but it all seems to have intensified or something else is at play because I seem to get targeted much more than before. There’s this guy who gets up at three in the morning to demonstrate in front of a slaughterhouse and kept bragging about his mission until I told him to stop. He also felt moved to smirkily show me a photograph of a cow fur wearing person who had a note stuck to her back, accusing her of being an ass*h. Then there’s this vegan woman (who, by the way, has been battling with severe anxiety and couldn’t come to work for more than half a year) who gives me this weird example: if a child is shown a bunny and an apple and asked to pick his dinner it would obviously be the apple… “Yes”, I said, “but what if the bunny is cooked and nicely sliced and spiced?” Hm. Then there’s this other woman who disturbed me the most - even if what she said was in jest. She proclaimed if there was a “zombie apocalypse” (!) she’d kill all the carnivors and smokers. I am very fond of this woman and so tried to tell her a bit about my own process of hard scrutiny and difficult process work that led to my slowly coming away from my love for vegetarianism and I pointed out our nice smoker collegue but she insinuated I was becoming dark. A fallen one. Then we have a woman who often saves insects and forgets her work and co-workers and so others have to step in on the occasions when she is off on one of her saving trips. It is a challenge.

I eat fish again but no meat so far (not counting the few times when I braved a few bites from my partners plate). I am not sure if I will manage to eat meat - perhaps I have to work much harder on my humility and pride. It also doesn’t help that I genuinely dislike the taste of meat. Anyway, I have managed to slaughter many a holy cow so far (mainly thanks to the work done here) but it usually takes me long earth times to implement realisations.

I do tell myself I had better work fast before it is too late. Surely, I must know by now that the stakes are high and that my soul is at stake? Who would so stupidly risk gambling away their soul? Who'd wilfully risk becoming "toast"? That is truly insane. Truly insane. And I am going to tell myself a third time: truly insane.
 
Someone wrote this to me, is it true?

"Livestock farming accounts for twice as much deforestation as the soy, palm oil and timber industries combined. Scientists in South America say that between 1990 and 2005, beef cattle production was the cause of 71 per cent of deforestation on the continent; the figure for other commodity farming, including sugar, rubber, coffee and cocoa, was just 17 per cent. Stats are facts. You can look it up here Oops, your browser isn't supported. | Global Forest Watch Made me laugh. Tofu farming hahah. Tofu is not a vegetable. It's a byproduct of soy. "
 
Rhythmik said:
Someone wrote this to me, is it true?

"Livestock farming accounts for twice as much deforestation as the soy, palm oil and timber industries combined. Scientists in South America say that between 1990 and 2005, beef cattle production was the cause of 71 per cent of deforestation on the continent; the figure for other commodity farming, including sugar, rubber, coffee and cocoa, was just 17 per cent. Stats are facts. You can look it up here Oops, your browser isn't supported. | Global Forest Watch Made me laugh. Tofu farming hahah. Tofu is not a vegetable. It's a byproduct of soy. "
Click to expand...

Read "The Vegetarian Myth" for data on those points. No, it is not true.
 
Okay one last try. Ill be as neutral as i can.
It is possible to eat healthy as a carnivore.
It is possible to eat healthy as a vegan.
Both have their pros and cons. Both diets require planning if you wish to get all essential building blocks for your body. What can i say, every health guru has his/her preferences what is good for you and what should be avoided. Only you can tell what suits you, so try out different things and then decide.
 
Lahje, as much as I think that everyone appreciates your trying, you are speaking to people who HAVE tried many diets, and researched them for years. If you really want to stick around, then maybe it would help if you could get more familiarized with the forum in general. If not, then I'm afraid that you may still be in the wrong place.
 
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