The Vegetarian Myth

When I seached for "macroovalocytosis" I found nothing in this thread, so even though this study is from 2002:
Vegetarian lifestyle and monitoring of vitamin B-12 status
by Wolfgang Herrmann & Jürgen Geisel Redirecting
here is the abstract from
Abstract​
Vegetarians are at risk to develop deficiencies of some essential nutrients, especially vitamin B-12 (cobalamin). Cobalamin occurs in substantial amounts only in foods derived from animals and is essential for one-carbon metabolism and cell division. Low nutritional intake of vitamin B-12 may lead to negative balance and, finally, to functional deficiency when tissue stores of vitamin B-12 are depleted. Early diagnosis of vitamin B-12 deficiency seems to be useful because irreversible neurological damages may be prevented by cobalamin substitution.​
The search for a specific and sensitive test to diagnose vitamin B-12 deficiency is ongoing. Serum vitamin B-12 measurement is a widely applied standard method. However, the test has poor predictive value. Optimal monitoring of cobalamin status in vegetarians should include the measurement of homocysteine (HCY), methylmalonic acid (MMA), and holotranscobalamin II. Vitamin B-12 deficiency can be divided into four stages. In stages I and II, indicated by a low plasma level of holotranscobalamin II, the plasma and cell stores become depleted. Stage III is characterized by increased levels of HCY and MMA in addition to lowered holotranscobalamin II. In stage IV, clinical signs become recognizable like macroovalocytosis, elevated MCV of erythrocytes or lowered haemoglobin. In our investigations, we have found stage III of vitamin B-12 deficiency in over 60% of vegetarians, thus underlining the importance of cobalamin monitoring in this dietary group.​
​
Perhaps one could ask why the last 40 % were not in stage III, perhaps some were in IV, and what has happened to them since this study so many years ago. At least this study bodes ill for those who are now captured by the Vegan fad.
 
www.thedailybeast.com

The Weird World of Vegan YouTube Stars Is Imploding

Rawvana, Bonny Rebecca and Stella Rae are eating animal products, triggering outrage and an identity crisis.
www.thedailybeast.com

In a Jan. 14 video titled “Why I’m No Longer Vegan,” YouTuber Bonny Rebecca set the tone for a mass of defections to come: rambling, half-hour-long videos in which the former herbivores apologize to their fans and breathlessly explain the health issues that caused them to start eating meat. In Bonny Rebecca’s case, it was the extreme digestive issues that the 26-year-old says led to bacterial imbalances in her gut and caused her boyfriend, fellow vegan YouTuber SlimLikeTim, to drop more than 30 pounds.

“I’ve been vegan for a long time and I think a part of me wanted to believe in this diet so much—because I had such a strong ethical connection to it—that I was turning a blind eye to my problems and to the severity of my health issues,” Bonny Rebecca said in the video. “This was a huge slap in the face for me.”

From there, the dominoes began to fall. Stella Rae, a former adherent of Freelee’s diet plan, announced she was quitting veganism due to bloating and digestive issues. Tim Shieff, a YouTube star and former vegan athlete, declared that he ejaculated for the first time in months after eating raw eggs and salmon. After her friend’s video was posted, Rawvana revealed that she had secretly been eating fish and eggs due to an overgrowth of bacteria in her small intestine—a disclosure that was picked up by outlets like BuzzFeed and The Washington Post.

Perhaps hoping to avoid a similarly dramatic outing, fellow raw food advocate RawAlignment announced the next day that she, too, had been eating fish since December.

“Without sharing our truth and living in our truth we have nothing,” the vlogger said in her 36-minute video. “Here’s to setting ourselves free.”

There is a certain schadenfreude in watching a self-proclaimed moral authority fall—especially one who looks like these YouTubers: young and lithe, with perfect skin and seemingly endless vacation time. It is akin to watching the Varsity Blues scandal unfold, but if those rich and beautiful people also posted chiding Instagram captions about “enslaving animals for the sake of our taste buds.”

There is also some satisfaction in catching a scammer in the act, of uncovering an influencer who ate meat while profiting off a #PlantPowered image. Many commenters have pointed out that Mendoza started selling her $69 “Raw Detox Challenge” in February—more than a month after she secretly started eating fish. Others noted that in March, she captioned a photo of herself at the gym, “VEGAN BOOTY GAINS.” Just one week ago, when a fan commented that her body was “proof that a vegan diet can work wonders,” Mendoza replied with a kissy face and heart emoji.

In an interview with The Daily Beast, Mendoza said she doesn’t regret promoting a plant-based diet these last few months. She still believes it is a healthy diet for someone without her medical issues, and said she may even return to it in the future. She also insisted that she’d always meant to tell her followers about the dietary switch—but in her own time, once she’d figured out the foods that worked best for her.

Even after all of the cruel comments and response videos die down, there is still the question of how a former vegan YouTuber can make a living eating meat. Or more pointedly: How can they convince people to follow their health advice, when they now claim the advice they were spewing for years made them sick?

Different stars have taken different tacks. Shieff, the founder of vegan clothing brand ETHCS, stepped down from the company after colleagues told Plant Based News they were “very shocked and upset” by his conduct. Bonny Rebecca has pulled sales of her vegan recipe e-books, though she continues to make “What I Eat In a Day” and “Get Healthy With Me” videos featuring fish and eggs. Her personal website reads simply, “something fresh coming soon.”

For Mendoza, it may still be too soon to tell. Her website is still up and selling products like her “21 Day Raw Challenge.” Vivo Life, the vegan protein powder company she endorses, did not respond to a request for comment, but still features her photo on their website. She told The Daily Beast she wanted to continue sharing her journey toward health and healing, but without such a strong focus on food.
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What I find kind of interesting about this is how similarly it follows the patterns of everyone "ousted" from political movements these days. They receive a series of scathing denouncements, organizations sponsoring them tend to backtrack, etc. but in spite of that a lot of these people still have viable social media audiences and some of their health products are still selling. It seems like wherever you go there's a fanatical minority trying to hold everyone else in check.
 
I have recently been coming across multiple ex-vegan videos. The health issues they describe are very similar: IBS, fatigue, tooth cavities and many more.

Where I live, veganism seems to be quite popular but I actually wonder whether it really is or vegans are yet another case of loud agressive minority trying to force the majority to accept their harmful ways. The transgender community is another example of such behaviour that immediately comes to mind.

According to this source, only 2% of the US population are vegans, 10% are former vegans who returned to eating meat:


Here's a screenshot from the document:

29618


Many, if not all, former vegans who come out are some sort of celebrities in the vegan community and they face lots of hate and backlash. It reminds me of recent reading assignments that dealt with religious practices of Islam (The Mecca Mystery) and Judaism (Jewish History, Jewish Religion). Both religions treat those who have left their ranks much worse than they treat those who were never followers in the first place. This could explain why so many former vegans hear that they "were never vegan in the first place": it's not about the health benefits but about the vegan ideology and its moral higher ground.

Some vegans go as far as urging others to stick to this "ethical" choice even if their health is falling apart! This is wrong on so many levels. Kind of like a dietary version of martyrdom.

Some ex-vegan testimonial videos I've come across:






I'm No Longer Vegan
 
Last edited:
Ant22 said:
I have recently been coming across multiple ex-vegan videos. The health issues they describe are very similar: IBS, fatigue, tooth cavities and many more.

Where I live, veganism seems to be quite popular but I actually wonder whether it really is or vegans are yet another case of loud agressive minority trying to force the majority to accept their harmful ways. The transgender community is another example of such behaviour that immediately comes to mind.

According to this source, only 2% of the US population are vegans, 10% are former vegans who returned to eating meat:


Here's a screenshot from the document:

View attachment 29618


Many, if not all, former vegans who come out are some sort of celebrities in the vegan community and they face lots of hate and backlash. It reminds me of recent reading assignments that dealt with religious practices of Islam (The Mecca Mystery) and Judaism (Jewish History, Jewish Religion). Both religions treat those who have left their ranks much worse than they treat those who were never followers in the first place. This could explain why so many former vegans hear that they "were never vegan in the first place": it's not about the health benefits but about the vegan ideology and its moral higher ground.

Some vegans go as far as urging others to stick to this "ethical" choice even if their health is falling apart! This is wrong on so many levels. Kind of like a dietary version of martyrdom.

Some ex-vegan testimonial videos I've come across:






I'm No Longer Vegan
Click to expand...

To be fair, a lot of them made money (sometimes a lot) by selling a vegan lifestyle, so I kind of understand why they would go the "it didn't work for me, but do you" way. If their content was about beauty or fashion, then they wouldn't have such issue. I've come across a few beauty youtubers who went back and forth between being vegan and not vegan and their audience didn't care. However, it's a completely different matter when your entire identity is wrapped around being vegan and brands associate with you because you're selling a vegan ideology. From a business/marketing point of view, if I were a business and I'm selling vegan product or lifestyle. However, one of the influencers I partner with, suddenly announce that he isn't a vegan anymore and doesn't believe in it...etc. Why would I keep associating with him?

Also, for vegans -- serious vegans I mean, veganism has never been about health, it's religious and about feeling superior to everybody else. So, extreme reaction are not very surprising.

From what I've seen veganism is popular, but only among certain demographic - think ultra liberal type who want to save Africa/ gym bunnies into health/ upper or middle class people trying to bring meaning to their life or wanting to be cool. This being said, my personal theory from dealing with people into these sort of lifestyle is that a lot of people who claim to be vegan/ vegetarian actually aren't. They eat normal cheese/ fish/ meat but they hide or they have excuse as to why on that particular day they can't respect their diet. a
 
My 13 years old niece is VEGAN.I have talked with her and her mom about the possible damage can produce in her young body.I gave her information,but i can not do anything else.Maybe my sister and her daughter will learn a hard lesson...It is their choice and i have to keep an emotional distance...External considerations.
 
Sigh. I think we need a t-shirt: "Veganism is an eating disorder".

Would anyone be surprised if there were multiple people admitted to hospital with anorexia who had vegetarianism in their current or past history? Anorexia is a complex disease, don't get me wrong, but people need to really understand the risks involved. This sort of diet may not be right for many people.
 
Hello everyone! I came across a lady who suffers from proinsulinoma. She is currently an ideological vegetarian. She eats many fruits and other carbs daily.

I told her that I was able to heal many conditions I had (including autoimmune caused by parvovirus) by following a keto diet and intermittent fasting, and eliminating food that caused inflammation. She was very interesting to learn more about it and decided to ask her doctor about it.

However, I don't think that most doctors in the US are knowledgeable about keto diet. When my OBGYN find out that I was on keto while pregnant she became very concerned about my health and sent me to a dietician. This dietician told me that in the medical school they were not taught much about keto and especially its effects on certain disseases and on pregnancy. She said that although she has heard about people having good results on keto, she, as a practicing dietician, cannot recommend keto to me. She advised me to add apples and other fruits with high carbs to my diet, which I did not. And I believe that was the right choice for me.

My question is: with her condition (proinsulinoma) does she have to go on a diet under a doctor supervision? Is it safe for someone like her to transition to keto on her own or there are things that need to be considered specifically for her condition? Has anyone here with proinsulinoma been able to cure this condition by ketogenic diet?
 
Εἰρήνη said:
My question is: with her condition (proinsulinoma) does she have to go on a diet under a doctor supervision? Is it safe for someone like her to transition to keto on her own or there are things that need to be considered specifically for her condition? Has anyone here with proinsulinoma been able to cure this condition by ketogenic diet?
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If she has severe hypoglycemic shocks, it might be tricky. It's best if she's under medical supervision. She might not be able to do anything about her insulin levels despite her diet, after all, this is a tumor.
 
Dr. Gaby, thank you very much for your response!
Can her condition be a result of her high carbs vegetarian diet? She eats mostly fruits.
Can she at least attempt the diet and see how it goes for her, or at her condition is too risky to do it on her own?
 
Εἰρήνη said:
Can her condition be a result of her high carbs vegetarian diet? She eats mostly fruits.
Can she at least attempt the diet and see how it goes for her, or at her condition is too risky to do it on her own?
Click to expand...

It's a tumor that secretes insulin and it shouldn't be more frequent in vegetarians. I would imagine that a crappy diet could certainly contribute. These are hormonal tumors and some of them have strong genetic components. She can try restricting carbs, but if she has a hypoglycemic shock induced by the tumor, she'll have to eat something before it's too late so to speak.
 
DianaRose94 said:
To be fair, a lot of them made money (sometimes a lot) by selling a vegan lifestyle, so I kind of understand why they would go the "it didn't work for me, but do you" way. If their content was about beauty or fashion, then they wouldn't have such issue. I've come across a few beauty youtubers who went back and forth between being vegan and not vegan and their audience didn't care. However, it's a completely different matter when your entire identity is wrapped around being vegan and brands associate with you because you're selling a vegan ideology. From a business/marketing point of view, if I were a business and I'm selling vegan product or lifestyle. However, one of the influencers I partner with, suddenly announce that he isn't a vegan anymore and doesn't believe in it...etc. Why would I keep associating with him?

Also, for vegans -- serious vegans I mean, veganism has never been about health, it's religious and about feeling superior to everybody else. So, extreme reaction are not very surprising.

From what I've seen veganism is popular, but only among certain demographic - think ultra liberal type who want to save Africa/ gym bunnies into health/ upper or middle class people trying to bring meaning to their life or wanting to be cool. This being said, my personal theory from dealing with people into these sort of lifestyle is that a lot of people who claim to be vegan/ vegetarian actually aren't. They eat normal cheese/ fish/ meat but they hide or they have excuse as to why on that particular day they can't respect their diet. a
Click to expand...
I've watched videos promoting a Vegan diet and videos explaining why the person stopped a Vegan diet. It is interesting and telling I think that when they are promoting Veganism the language is all "you" "you should" "we" "we have to do" "everyone on the planet" . . .
And when the make their confessional video about why they stopped eating Vegan, it's all just about themselves. "my choice" "best for me" "I felt" "not telling anyone else" . So clearly the promotion of the Vegan diet is an ideological cause trying to control others, and then in order to make it OK to stop, it has to be because it nearly kills them. It can't be because real science evidence supports the fact that humans are designed to be omnivores.
 
I believe taking a stance of "vegeterian" or "vegan" is already limiting to both our minds and bodies by the very limited nature of categorization which might limit choice of doing what is necessary for ones well being. On the other hand it might open up to new world of possabilities and creativity when it comes to health. I my self have what I could consider vegeterian diet and for me it was something my body needed a long time because its easier for my body to detox and doesn't bring sense of heavyness. Genetically speaking people are not the same due to different chemical balances. When I began I had different issues after sometime which I am grateful for because that brought even deeper understanding to my body and knowledge of how thoughts and chemistry are related. Ofcourse consciousness is important too. Maybe I did something wrong, maybe ate too much, or ate meat incorrectly so it was more eating me than my body did. I do understand why people before the flood were vegetarians, and why in some parts in the world people need meat for their survival. As well people should consider the ph of the food they eat. I agree with the part that many people engage in the vegetarian diet for wrong reasons and does more harm to themselves than usefulness. Well I believe that learning doesn't stop there.
 
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