The Vegetarian Myth

[Benjamin]

I have not read "The Vegetarian Myth" but I did experiment with vegetarianism/veganism years ago. What I write here is very well known already, but I'm just sharing what I experienced.

About 1994, I became really interested in what was in my food. I would read ingredients labels and look up all the weird chemical names in books to know what they were, I got into herbalism and aromatherapy in a big way, and general nutrition and supplements. I was still eating meat, though.

In 1997, I think is when I started to become a vegetarian/vegan... out of laziness partially? I was a student at the Vancouver Film School- Multimedia Division (now defunct) and had no money (or time) to buy meat. I would still buy quick, cheap meals ($1 pizza-by-the-slice, occasional McD's) that had meat on it but I ate a diet that just "filled the hole" (because that's how students (were supposed to) live). Once school was over, I slid further into a vegetarian diet because it was just easier to eliminate the meat and because I generally believed it was, not necessarily healthier, but that, "by the scientific numbers", science proved that you could substitute everything meat had with vegetarian choices... and it was cheaper. I ate the organic long-grain brown rice, the kidney, black, pinto and adzuki beans, the green, black and red lentils, I made my own tofu, all manor of vegetables, cheese, eggs (which I now know I have no problem eating the whites but the yolks give me the most copious amounts of gas), as well as all the many other grains, seeds fruit and vegetable oils.

I think back to those years and vaguely remember... like a whirlwind aura of "mentalness" and reinforcements.

I remember at one of our entire family Christmas gatherings (1999-ish?) when I was a full on vegetarian/vegan, I was asked by a cousin why I was vegetarian. I didn't get into details but I answered, "It's an experiment. I just want to see what happens." Which, in hindsight was the safest, and probably most accurate, answer I could give.

Well, after about 3 years of this lifestyle, this was the result:

By the time I was finished with being vegetarian, I was suffering from aching joints, sore back, a nagging cough (wasn't "a smoker"), occasional piles, heart palpitations and flutters, occasional "racing" heart, horrible sleeps, lethargy, constipation, gas, some night sweats, warts (not too bad but some were on the bottom of my feet), really bad leg cramps, abdominal cramps, muscle spasms, mucus, stress, brain fog (I don't remember having this but wouldn't that be obvious?), and my thoughts were of a "darker" nature... for what I can remember. I don't remember the circumstances, but I eventually just quit being vegetarian.

For me vegetarianism wasn't directly connected with a religious belief or a "save the whales/environment" attitude, although these may have been subtle, reinforcing bonuses.

For health reasons alone, I cannot be a vegetarian. I've been there, I know what happens to me, and to preserve my life, I must eat meat.

Unfortunately, my sister became a vegetarian after I ended being, and has remained one still (she eats the occasional canned fish (that MUST be sustainably harvested) because fish isn't meat... it's fish (huh?)). Her's is a much stronger adherence because it IS tied to a religious mindset (all life has a right to live/ killing is evil) as well as the "saving the environment" activism. To show you how bad it's gotten, she actually believes the "cow flatulence" argument to be true and has used it to support her views. This is her favorite cookbook (that I actually bought AFTER I was no longer a vegetarian because I thought we could use the recipes to create side-dishes). She has several symptoms that I have had (night sweats, poor sleeping, nagging cough, general anxiety) that she has mentioned to me and has asked me what might be the cause because nothing she does makes them go away, and I can't say a thing. Seriously, if I mention "vegetarianism" she will (probably) start her rant with the "You're a smoker" argument and proceed with "You were probably doing it wrong (my vegetarianism)" while lambasting me with cold, sharp energy of such a volume that makes my body physically shake and spasm uncontrollably for many minutes after. You see, she has this... switch, that when flicked on, makes her go from 2-3-4 -> 11 instantly! And it's really hard to deal with. It's happened to me several times as well as to mom but not directly to dad (when he was alive that I can recall). There are certain belief triggers that set her off but since I don't know what most of those triggers are I generally don't talk about much with her anymore. I do understand that I cannot get involved with her choice of being vegetarian, even if I can see problems down the line.

*sigh*
Anyway,
Cheers!

 

[Border Dog]

Well, after about 3 years of this lifestyle, this was the result:

By the time I was finished with being vegetarian, I was suffering from aching joints, sore back, a nagging cough (wasn't "a smoker"), occasional piles, heart palpitations and flutters, occasional "racing" heart, horrible sleeps, lethargy, constipation, gas, some night sweats, warts (not too bad but some were on the bottom of my feet), really bad leg cramps, abdominal cramps, muscle spasms, mucus, stress, brain fog (I don't remember having this but wouldn't that be obvious?), and my thoughts were of a "darker" nature... for what I can remember. I don't remember the circumstances, but I eventually just quit being vegetarian.

For me vegetarianism wasn't directly connected with a religious belief or a "save the whales/environment" attitude, although these may have been subtle, reinforcing bonuses.

For health reasons alone, I cannot be a vegetarian. I've been there, I know what happens to me, and to preserve my life, I must eat meat.

it's possible to be a vegetarian, but I think it involves getting used to the organism since childhood, usually with previous vegetarian parents which also improves the genetic resources to be and live as a vegetarian..

the issue about fish involves cardumes (like herring or sardines) which eats phytoplankton, so you'll be more near to (eat) absorb a more pure energy produced substance, because all plants through photosyntesis can convert near 100% of sun rays to produce the needed organic substances from the inorganic.

All animals need mainly organic substances, so a fish who eats other fishes (like sardines) is not too near to a minimum of "entropy" demand, like a pure vegetarian is.

Look also at herbivores that although are animals, eat only plants (mainly grass), live in groups like the cardume fishes, and are also widely used in feeding other animals, including (us) men.

I talked with people dedicated to this issue, and those who tried to feed plants exclusively, after a month start to detected memory flaws among others problems, so they had to include at least fish again in their new diet, to avoid the resulting health problems.

So, for now I think that plants and herbivores, including fish, may be a way to minimize the probable entropy debts related to food chain.

It's not so simple for an adult to become a vegan. There is a lot of misleading advertising (and money) involved behind this matter.

 

[piliangie]

I just wonder if , all slaughterhouse of animals , have Crystal walls , and people can see animals get kill every single ...how Many Will still eat meat with joy, I mean , I feel pain , and it's no because I was cruel with them in the past, I feel empathy , I was born like that...I'm not a vegetarian , But all My life I struggle between this topic of eating corps, death ...meat...

 

[Ant22]

I just wonder if , all slaughterhouse of animals , have Crystal walls , and people can see animals get kill every single ...how Many Will still eat meat with joy, I mean , I feel pain , and it's no because I was cruel with them in the past, I feel empathy , I was born like that...I'm not a vegetarian , But all My life I struggle between this topic of eating corps, death ...meat...

Hi pilinagie, the well-known Paul McCartney quote you used refers to industrial farming where animals are crammed into tight spaces, fed unnecessary antibiotics and treated badly. But this is not the only choice. There are also high welfare organic farms that offer much better quality of life to livestock, and it is a consensus here that organic, outdoor-bread meat where animals have much better conditions should be consumed instead. Most high welfare farms organise visits for the public here in the UK and I visited two of them. I was more than satisfied with what I saw so I can confirm that if glass walls were installed there I'd continue to eat meat.

Moreover, the consensus here is that our current mode of being requires that we eat meat to function optimally (as opposed to just surviving). And the Cs said that a vegetarian diet results in eating lower consciousness and this does not assist us on the journey we are on.

So to correct the logic behind the quote you used, if industrial slaughterhouses had glass walls many people would choose to buy meat from organic farmers who ensure high quality welfare for their animals.

 

[Ant22]

I'm not a vegetarian , But all My life I struggle between this topic of eating corps, death ...meat...

Just to add to my above point, I was vegetarian for 12 years and this diet absolutely ruined my physical health - to the point I was nearly considered unfit for work. On top of physical symptoms, lack of mental clarity, debilitating fatigue and brain fogs made every single day a struggle to make it till the evening. Today, 5 years after I started eating meat again, I feel better than I have since I was a teenager. Within a few months of re-introducing meat into my diet many debilitating health problems started to dissolve, many others took years to fix, and some still linger. I may have to pay the price for 12 years vegetarian self-abuse for the rest of my life but I will never revert back to a meat-free diet.

I think you'd benefit from reading this entire thread, I get the impression you haven't done this yet. Hopefully it will help you change your perception of the meaning and importance of eating meat. You seem to have similar emotional issues with it as I had in the past and this thread pushed me to start eating meat again. With time, the "eating corpse" narrative dissolved and eating organically played a big role in it.

 

[SevenFeathers]

I just wonder if , all slaughterhouse of animals , have Crystal walls , and people can see animals get kill every single ...how Many Will still eat meat with joy, I mean , I feel pain , and it's no because I was cruel with them in the past, I feel empathy , I was born like that...I'm not a vegetarian , But all My life I struggle between this topic of eating corps, death ...meat...

I agree with Ant22 about eating meat from responsible sources. Another side to this is that if people had to kill their own food, it would be very hard for many (I am one). But if we look at the ways of native American Indians, and other indigenous people, their way is to give thanks to the animal which will feed you and your people. One man, who was part Indian, was being trained by a shaman about the old ways. They went deer hunting, and the man described it this way:

It was challenging in a way that rifle hunting with his father had never been. To kill a deer required that he be almost close enough to hear it breathing. It was a shockingly intimate experience, and after he’d brought down his first buck, he understood why it was necessary for his own spirit that he sing to the spirit of the animal he’d killed, that he explain the violence and promise the beautiful creature that his body would feed The People and they would be grateful.” —Trickster’s Point (p. 60, Atria Books, New York, 2012)

So we can feel empathy for animals, and give thanks to them for being part of the circle of life.

 

[Ant22]

Another side to this is that if people had to kill their own food, it would be very hard for many (I am one). But if we look at the ways of native American Indians, and other indigenous people, their way is to give thanks to the animal which will feed you and your people.

I too would struggle to kill an animal, especially that the only tools available to me would cause that animal much more suffering than the instant death they meet in a slaughterhouse. But having been vegetarian in the past I know what damage lack of meat does to the body, so if push came to shove I would kill to eat meat if there was no other choice.

As for vegetarianism being cruelty free, just because vegetarians don't eat meat it doesn't mean their diet doesn't result in death of other creatures. Not to mention being bad for the soil and ecosystems. SOTT has a few articles about this topic:

The Vegan Confusion - How vegans and vegetarians kill animals after all...

Last year Claudio Bertonatti, one of the most renowned naturalists in Argentina, wrote an article that triggered an earthquake. The tsunami reached us here and is likely to extend even further. In his article, The Vegan Confusion he warns that...

www.sott.net

Grass-fed Beef — The Most Vegan Item In The Supermarket

Probably the most vegan item you can buy in the supermarket is a pound of grass-fed beef. I was thinking about that heretical idea as I drove through my neighboring countryside, scanning empty cornfields for signs of life and wondering at the...

www.sott.net

The Myth of the Ethical 'Vegan'

Ethical vegans allow themselves a pretense of moral and ethical superiority with no real effort. Veganism dates back to 1944, when British Vegan Society co-founder Donald Watson coined the term to mean "non-dairy vegetarian." The Society expanded...

www.sott.net

 

[Border Dog]

I too would struggle to kill an animal, especially that the only tools available to me would cause that animal much more suffering than the instant death they meet in a slaughterhouse. But having been vegetarian in the past I know what damage lack of meat does to the body, so if push came to shove I would kill to eat meat if there was no other choice.

On Nature, a prey usually is catched after being chased or ambushed, maybe both, so that, the level of endorphin grows up, and under these metabolic conditions, pain and suffering are minimized.

-----

Note about my previous post - it's surprising that someone doesn't like purely technical information about Food Chain.

as there was no objective criticism as to why that ones didn’t like the information, I wonder if they’ve ever heard of energy, the law of energy conservation and entropy, as this is essential to understand what I wrote, and also, that in this material world "Everything is Condensed Energy", including all organic, inorganic and etheric substances that are available.

indeed, from an energetic point of view, all foods are condensed energy which we eat to sustain life, each in their own way.

 

[zak]

Note about my previous post - it's surprising that someone doesn't like purely technical information about Food Chain.

Hi Border Dog (nice avatar), i understand that you answer to Benjamin how difficult it is to become a vegetarian as an adult.
The thing is that this thread is not called "The Vegetarian Meat", but "Myth". where by experiments, and examples, it is proven that the vegetarian diet is harmful to both body and mind.
I think that in this forum of research and experimentation, the dislike you have received does not concern you directly, but rather the content of your post.
And with what I've said before, even if it's from a good intention, in my opinion the base of the idea is irresponsible to want to raise a child in this direction.

it's possible to be a vegetarian, but I think it involves getting used to the organism since childhood, usually with previous vegetarian parents which also improves the genetic resources to be and live as a vegetarian..

Here is the opening post of this thread:

I think I understand more fully what's going on with some vegetarians. I think the ones doing it for moral reasons have no real concern for health. That's probably obvious but I just realized this. I suppose I confused the lack of animal protein with health due to my own programming. I wonder if some people have had some deep wounding and attempt to fix the past because they were hurt so badly - they don't want to be responsible for hurting anyone the way they've been hurt?

So their vegetarian stance is a projection of their own wounded self upon animals. The meat eating population a projection of the wounding parent and therefore seen as the enemy. Being vegetarian allows them to uphold the image of the good child who can do no wrong.

The vegetarian/vegan diet (or dairy or whatever) further cements this inability to think (or having thought loops) properly by not supplying proper nutrients that would enable them to think outside the box. The box in this case being their own narcissistic wounding via their inability/unwillingness to accept responsibility.

 

[Benjamin]

Just re-reading my post, there is a sentence that is not quite clear:

You see, she has this... switch, that when flicked on, makes her go from 2-3-4 -> 11 instantly! And it's really hard to deal with. It's happened to me several times as well as to mom but not directly to dad (when he was alive that I can recall).

I should have written : "I have been on the receiving end of this wrath several times as well as mom but not directly, at least, to dad (when he was alive that I can recall)."

When I was a vegetarian (I was about 27/28 when I ended the experiment), I do remember being much more moody then I am now, but I don't remember ever having a "switch" (except once to defend myself from one of my sister's earlier explosive attacks when she found out I had used my ozonator (when she wasn't around) to clean the air in my bedroom and she smelled ozone in hers, which made her bedroom toxic. She was pretty convinced she was going to have irreparable damage done to her and so she packed up some stuff and slept at a friend's place that night. Before she left I apologized saying it was wrong of me to have yelled at her and that I would never use the ozonator again (at least while she was still living here, which she is no longer).)

Also a little update: yesterday was my sister's birthday. She came over and it was fine, and she mentioned about a talk she had with someone she respects about protein and how 14g at breakfast was not enough and she should be eating about 26g, which after the adjustment she found she was no longer hungry mid-morning. I think she mentioned adding a second fried egg with her fried tempeh and fruit&veggie smoothie that did the trick. She also mentioned adding more fat to her diet (more avocado, I think, but definitely veg. oil). So there is some movement.

 

[Benjamin]

But all My life I struggle between this topic of eating corps, death ...meat...

For awhile after I stopped eating vegetarian, thoughts of "the poor animals" and "fried flesh" would pop into my mind on occasion and would make me question if I made the "right decision". I was still affected by the emotion of the anti-meat crowd because I lacked a counter argument even though I knew what would happen if I stopped eating meat again. As Ant22 said:

...refers to industrial farming where animals are crammed into tight spaces, fed unnecessary antibiotics and treated badly.

Countless video's, news reports and "point-of-view" interviews of the above are meant to make me make an emotional decision to not support the meat industry by not eating meat rather then by changing the industry, which might be almost impossible to do now but as Ant22 also said, there is another choice. Anyway, my point is that, although this doesn't make vegetarianism "wrong" per se, it did make me angry for others trying to manipulate my emotions so they could get what they want... whatever that is.

Something else that also helped me was understanding that I was (and still am, if it makes sense) 2nd Density, which means I have been eaten X-number of times. It also helped me to realize that the soul inhabiting the 2nd D bodies I eat will eventually inhabit 3rd D bodies who may or may not eat 2nd D bodies.

Lastly, what I put into my body is important but what I don't put in my body may be more so. I tried to eat a vegetarian way but it disagreed with me because it is not my "profile". I am "meant" to eat meat, otherwise I would get sick from eating it.

Just some personal thoughts.

 

[Border Dog]

The thing is that this thread is not called "The Vegetarian Meat", but "Myth". where by experiments, and examples, it is proven that the vegetarian diet is harmful to both body and mind.
I think that in this forum of research and experimentation, the dislike you have received does not concern you directly, but rather the content of your post.
And with what I've said before, even if it's from a good intention, in my opinion the base of the idea is irresponsible to want to raise a child in this direction.

Hey zak, thanks for friendly answer, although I can't see reason to dislike tech infos, and of course I'm regarding "the content".

about you criticism, Please Regard when I said "It's possible" I didn't made any value judgment, no merit, neither opinion like good or bad. I know vegetarian families, vegetarian people, I'm aware about this subject, among many others about Food Chain.

What I can see, my post is align with context of thread, but ok, I thank everyone to show me what is likeable here.

-----

to not post whithout info, I forgot to register that 100gr of meat equals to 250gr of carrots in calories

 

[hlat]

about you criticism, Please Regard when I said "It's possible" I didn't made any value judgment, no merit, neither opinion like good or bad. I know vegetarian families, vegetarian people, I'm aware about this subject, among many others about Food Chain.

As the saying goes, you could drive a car with your feet if you want to, that don't make it a good idea.

 

[piliangie]

Hi pilinagie, the well-known Paul McCartney quote you used refers to industrial farming where animals are crammed into tight spaces, fed unnecessary antibiotics and treated badly. But this is not the only choice. There are also high welfare organic farms that offer much better quality of life to livestock, and it is a consensus here that organic, outdoor-bread meat where animals have much better conditions should be consumed instead. Most high welfare farms organise visits for the public here in the UK and I visited two of them. I was more than satisfied with what I saw so I can confirm that if glass walls were installed there I'd continue to eat meat.

Moreover, the consensus here is that our current mode of being requires that we eat meat to function optimally (as opposed to just surviving). And the Cs said that a vegetarian diet results in eating lower consciousness and this does not assist us on the journey we are on.

So to correct the logic behind the quote you used, if industrial slaughterhouses had glass walls many people would choose to buy meat from organic farmers who ensure high quality welfare for their animals.

I agree with You But if You live in 3rd world countrys ( I just use that term, because didn't find another Word ..to name this countrys) ..theres no organic free feeding animals..at least not yet ..and Frankly is going to take many years to change it..I live in México..

 

[piliangie]

Just to add to my above point, I was vegetarian for 12 years and this diet absolutely ruined my physical health - to the point I was nearly considered unfit for work. On top of physical symptoms, lack of mental clarity, debilitating fatigue and brain fogs made every single day a struggle to make it till the evening. Today, 5 years after I started eating meat again, I feel better than I have since I was a teenager. Within a few months of re-introducing meat into my diet many debilitating health problems started to dissolve, many others took years to fix, and some still linger. I may have to pay the price for 12 years vegetarian self-abuse for the rest of my life but I will never revert back to a meat-free diet.

I think you'd benefit from reading this entire thread, I get the impression you haven't done this yet. Hopefully it will help you change your perception of the meaning and importance of eating meat. You seem to have similar emotional issues with it as I had in the past and this thread pushed me to start eating meat again. With time, the "eating corpse" narrative dissolved and eating organically played a big role in it.

Actually I'm very well informed regarding this, But I love animals, I already read the "vegetarian myth" long time ago... Thats why I'm not a vegetarian or Vegan....But still think that I Will be more happy in a world that don't need to kill such a beautiful and inocente beings ....But in this life Will never happen...