The World's Fair

It gets weirder and weirder.
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Does any one of them look like the proverbial "indian?" Half seem more caucasian.
It is hard to say. Nation "India" too diverse in many aspects ( color, facial characteristics etc.) . They are not south Indians or North Indians. If they are Indians, may be from remote North Eastern states. My guess is they are NOT Indians. May be they are American Native Indians.
 

Wikipedia: Fort Shaw Indian School Girls Basketball Team

The Fort Shaw Indian School Girls Basketball Team was made up of seven Native American students from various tribes who attended the Fort Shaw Indian Boarding School in Fort Shaw, Montana, United States. They became World Champions at the 1904 Louisiana Purchase Exposition (more commonly known as the St. Louis World Fair) by defeating basketball teams from across the United States and world....
Abandoned by the United States Army on 1 July 1891, Fort Shaw (located in north central Montana) was originally built between Fort Benton and Helena to protect the settlers from Indian attacks.[4] In 1892, nearly 5,000 acres of the fort and its surrounding land were re-purposed as the Fort Shaw Government Industrial Indian Boarding School by the Department of the Interior after a government school in northeastern Montana burned down.....

Original 7 players​

  • Genie Butch, left guard: born to an Assiniboine mother and white father, she grew up in the Fort Peck reservation. Belle Johnson, left forward and left guard, team Captain:[7] Born in Belt, Montana to a Piegan mother and a white father. Nettie Wirth, forward and center: daughter of an Assiniboine mother and German immigrant father. "Big Minnie" Minnie Burton, left guard and left forward: transferred from the reservation school at Fort Hall, Idaho. Her mother, who was West Shoshone, died when Burton was nine leading her to be raised by her Lemhi Shoshone father and step-mother. Emma Rose Sansaver, right forward: Born in Havre, Montana to a Métis father and Chippewa-Cree mother. Josephine Langely, center and right guard, team captain: daughter of a Piegan mother and a Métis father who served at Fort Shaw when it was still a military base. Delia Gebeau, left guard: Born to a Spokane mother and Métis father. Second Season Additions: Genevieve "Gen" Healy, guard: Born to a Gros Ventre mother. Catherine "Katie" Snell, guard: Born to a German immigrant father and Assiniboine mother. Sarah Mitchell, forward: born in Wolf Point, Montana to an Assiniboine-Chippewa mother and Shoshone father. Flora Lucero, forward: born near Choteau, Montana to a Chippewa-Cree mother and Spanish immigrant father.


  • Members of Fort Shaw Indian School Girls Basketball Team (Front- G. Butch, B. Johnson, E. Sansaver; Back- N. Wirth, Mr. McCutcheon, K. Snell, M. Burton)

Anthropology Days​



"Navaho woman (with child)." on display as part of the Anthropology Days exhibits. Courtesy of the Department of Anthropology, 1904 World's Fair

The Louisiana Purchase Exposition is known for its many Anthropology Days displays of "exotic peoples" to, "reaffirm notions of racial superiority while simultaneously challenging many popular stereotypes."[10] Native American people were put on display to demonstrate their possibility for "progress."[10] Anthropology Days architect W. J. McGee designed his events to illustrate the evolution of humans from "savagery" to "barbarism" to "civilization."[11] The displays were also ways for the imperialist countries who presented them to justify their subjugation of indigenous people worldwide.[10]


Model Indian School​

The Model Indian School, home to 150 students during the fair, was located on "Indian Hill" at the fair next to the fair's own reservation where traditional housing was set up and ancient crafts were created in order to compare the students to those on the reservation.[2] The Model Indian School was strategically placed between the "realistic" huts of the most "savage" human exhibits and the green fields of the modern athletic complex, demonstrating the evolutionary scale in a visual and physical nature.[11]

The girls' presence and decorum at the fair helped show fair-goers that Indians were not "savages."[2] Historian Nancy Parezo notes that the Fort Shaw Girls' championship title disproved theories of Anglo-European athletic superiority, something that the anthropologists studying the fair would never have admitted.[10] (The relevance of particular information in (or previously in) this article or section is disputed.)
 
Also interesting that systems was pluralized
"When William the Conqueror faced the merchant and commercial powers and societies of London 1000 years ago, he let them keep their already established rights and laws. The guilds start to get royal charters as early as the 13th century, 110 of them developing all the way up to the present day, and they still hold many of their ancient powers of trade and self-governance.We'll explore how they became established, how they were and are organised, how they affected society, how you join, some of their ongoing roles and workings, and how they tie in to the running of the City of London as an ancient region in itself right in the heart of Greater London."

Are these the monopolisers among other '....hoods' and financiers? Are they the seed of today's globalists? There are 110 guilds that sound like glorified mafia-esqe groups. The narrator sounds like one of their proud muppets, but that's just my take on it. (57min)

 
I drive by this building every day going to work. This is the Peck Building. Built in 1893. My great Grandmother worked at a stationary company in this building for most of her adult life after moving from the family farm to the city in 1905. As you can see things change very slowly here.
Did she by any chance witness it's construction or did anyone you know remember it being built or this architects other work?


"In 1893, merchant John W. Peck commissioned local architect Charles Henry Wheeler to design a four-storey warehouse for his Montreal-based clothing business.

Born at Lutterworth, North Leicestershire, England on 23 April 1838, little is known about his early life and education except he was married to Annie Wakefield of Fairford, Gloucester in 1858. It is believed that he studied architecture and music in Birmingham, England in this same period. He continued his pursuit of his architectural career in this city and later in London for approximately twenty years.

Early in the 1880s, he began to hear favourable accounts of life in the Canadian West and decided to seek his fortune in this area. Wheeler arrived in Winnipeg with his wife and six children in February 1882. He must have been a remarkable man at age forty-four and with a large family to leave England and an established career (?) to move to an unknown boom-town like Winnipeg. Once here, he began to work for the architectural firm of James Chisholm.

It was not long before Wheeler began to distinguish himself in his new homeland and city. In 1883, his plans for the new Holy Trinity Anglican Church "
General view of Holy Trinity Anglican Church, showing the irregular roof line punctuated by finials and gables, 1994. © Parks Canada Agency / Agence Parcs Canada, 1994.

General view
© Parks Canada Agency / Agence Parcs Canada, 1994.



Is this truly believable or is he one of the luckiest contestant winners? He arrived in Feb1882 and already managed to 'design' a brand new construction in the same year.


BuildingLocationYearStatus
Euclid SchoolCorner of Lusted & Euclid, Winnipeg1882
Holy Trinity ChurchCorner of Graham & Donald, Winnipeg1884
G. F. and J. Galt’s Warehouse103 Princess corner Bannatyne, Winnipeg1887
James Robertson & Company Warehouse179 Pacific, Winnipeg1887
George D. Wood & Company Warehouse22-24 Alexander East, Winnipeg1887
E. F. Stephenson Residence11 Osborne, Winnipeg1888
Home for the IncurablesPortage la Prairie1889
Shaarey Zedek SynagogueKing & Henry, Winnipeg1890
Home for Incurables3rd Street NE, Portage la Prairie1890
Merchants’ Bank11th Street & Rosser, Brandon1890
A. C. Baskerville & Co. Warehouse660 Main, Winnipeg1890
Morden Methodist ChurchMorden1890
Mathewson House432 Assiniboine, Winnipeg1890
Sanford Building291 Bannatyne Avenue, Winnipeg1890
Deaf and Dumb InstitutePortage Avenue, Winnipegc1891
Maxwell & Co. WarehouseWinnipegc1891
E. M. Carroll ResidenceWinnipegc1891
Provincial Gaol20 Third Street SE, Portage la Prairiec1891
Brandon Asylum for the Insane (addition)First Street, Brandon1892-1893Destroyed by fire (November 1910)
Foulds Block546 Main Street, Winnipeg1892
St. Mary St. Alban Anglican ChurchKaleida1892
John Galt ResidenceWinnipeg1892
R. D. Bathgate ResidenceWinnipeg1892
Judge Killam ResidenceWinnipeg1893
John Peck & Company Warehouse33 Princess, Winnipeg1893-1894
Court HouseKennedy Street, Winnipeg1893-1894
Bank of Ottawa construction supervision363 Main Street, Winnipeg1894
Davis BlockMarket Square, Winnipeg1894
Water Works Company’s StationArmstrong’s Point, Winnipeg1894
Union Bank alterationsMain & Bannatyne, Winnipeg1894
Macdonald House61 Carlton Street, Winnipeg1895
Campbell Block532-534 Main at James, Winnipeg1895
Argyle School No. 2corner Argyle & Henry, Winnipeg1896Demolished
Dufferin School No. 2Park corner Logan, Winnipeg1896Demolished
Assiniboine Block alterations173 Main at York, Winnipeg1896
D. T. Lennon Residence195 Kennedy, Winnipeg1896
John Plaxton Residence226 Vaughan, Winnipeg1896
R. R. Taylor WarehouseWinnipeg1896
Winnipeg Opera HouseNotre Dame & Adelaide, Winnipegc1896
Winnipeg Industrial Exhibition GrandstandDufferin & Sinclair, Winnipeg1900
Deloraine School No. 490Deloraine1902
Carman School No. 176Carman1902
Bacteriological LaboratoryWinnipeg1906
Brookside Quarantine HospitalBrookside Cemetery, Winnipeg1906-1907
Tees and Persse Block285 Market Square, Winnipeg?
A. M. Nanton ResidenceWinnipeg?
James Smart ResidenceBrandon?
R. R. Taylor ResidenceMiddlechurch?
W. Rough ResidenceWinnipeg?
 
Did she by any chance witness it's construction or did anyone you know remember it being built or this architects other work?

Thanks @stellar for directly addressing Winnipeg architecture in this thread. At least I can offer some evidence that I can physically verify.

Oddly enough Winnipeg has also been subjected to devastating flooding. Due to the Red River draining northward, ice dams can build up near the mouth of Lake Winnipeg and expand the river essentially into a giant lake over the flat prairie - sometimes deep into North Dakota. Here's a pic of the 1950 flood.

Winnipeg 1950 flood.jpg


And yes, in terms of our soil, it is poorly draining clay that runs very deep (The ancient bottom of Glacial Lake Agassiz) - so mud flood could be used to describe what is left after the water recedes.

This is a photo of the crest of the flooding that happened in 1950 in a neighbourhood known as Riverview:

Riverview.jpg

The houses above were relatively new at the time and do still stand. I personally have lived in two different houses in Riverview that had been flooded in 1950. Both were built in the 1920's. The houses always have foundation problems and are always crooked as they re-settled after the flood.

The 1950 flood is considered one, if not the, most catastrophic floods in Canadian history.

There was little loss of life (you can see it coming for days) but the property and infrastructure damage was extreme. As for personal recollections, my maternal Grandfather was working for the gas company at the veterans hospital in Riverview when the dyke failed. He had a great, but terrifying story witnessing that.

In response to this event and the fact that a larger one had happened in 1826, our provincial government undertook building one of the largest earth moving projects in modern history -The Red River Floodway.

Red River Floodway

Since it was finished, it's saved billions of dollars in damages. I was in my 20's for the 1997 flood (which was the largest since 1950), and although the Floodway saved the city, many smaller towns south of the floodway cutoff were heavily damaged (Grand Forks North Dakota was destroyed). Afterwards new ring dykes were built around them as well as new zoning laws to build on elevated ground, so as to minimize future damages in case of a similar event.

If I was to play "mud flood advocate", Winnipeg and the general area would be a good candidate. Cyclical catastrophic flooding and lots of mud regularly takes the area out. So what about the 1826 flood that was bigger than 1950? In 1826 there was already a fledgling agricultural colony here as well as long-established fur traders, metis and first nations people. Here's short blurb on it from the Province:

The 1826 flood was the largest known in the Red River Valley, with an estimated peak discharge about 40 per cent greater than the natural flow in the 1997 flood. The conditions that caused the 1826 flood have been described in detail by St. George and Rannie (2003). The event devastated the struggling Red River Settlement, led to the exodus of German and des Meurons regiment settlers, precipitated the relocation of the Hudson’s Bay Company headquarters from Upper Fort Garry (in present-day Winnipeg) to flood-free Lower Fort Garry (near Selkirk, 40 kilometres downstream).

There are a number of testimonies and books from various sources I've found that were written at the time or shortly after by people that have a long history of being here with hundreds of descendants. My neighbour's fiancee is directly descended from Narcisse Marion - who was 20 years old at the time of the 1826 flood. Also, in regards to the above mentioned "Des Meurons" who left during the flood - I live one street over from Rue Des Meurons and the Seine River where their homesteads were. We walk the river path with our dogs in summer and on the frozen river in the winter all the time. There are no unusual structures. Although there is a half-buried Pontiac from the 1950 flood that's pretty cool.

Our neighbourhood is the largest and oldest and French-speaking community in western North America and has a very active historical society. One of our neighbours who cat sits for us in the summer is a member. Not only are many people here related to notable historical figures going back to the early 1800's (or before), but the majority of those figures are buried at St. Boniface Cathedral and you can visit their graves.

Because of the uniqueness and loyalty to our local history, much what was unknown to let's say "Anglo-Canadian" mainstream history has been dug up by locals. The Oblate Fathers that founded our cathedral, went as far to find a rare set of correspondence from Pere Aulneau who was killed in a massacre on Lake of the Woods with La Verendreye's sons in 1735. The father's went so far as the reconstruct the lost location of one of those forts and rebuild it in the 1950's.

The point would be is that there is no way all of these records were re-written by the Cabal/Rothschild's etc. What would be the point? Who cares about a few thousand farmers and trappers living in the northern wilderness and their history? Has there recently been a lot of political spinning/speculation about how that older culture lived? Yes. In a very pathetic, desperate woke way. But no change to the events from the 1730's to 2023.

Narcisse Marion
JP Aulneau
La Verendreye

I'm not going to get deep into Manitoba history (everyone on the forum will hit the snooze button ;-), No major event seems to be inserted or erased. Lots of spin and politics - yes. But the events aren't disputed.

So to follow the "buildings existing from a previous civilization that were built/incorporated into 19th century buildings" assertion, it would have to have been before the 1730's in Manitoba. If you take a look at the thread @Debra started, The Great Serpent Mound of Ohio, I added some evidence and speculation about a large mound complex 250km from Winnipeg that points to another culture lost to memory that may have existed. But they are stone and earthen mounds and not near any major town or city. It's not about masonry and "buildings". If it's something "lost" - it's a completely different technology and not useful to 19th century builders.

The last point comes down to your original question on the Peck Building and whether my Great Grandmother was ever in the basement or was aware of the architect. She passed away in 1979, so I would not have known to ask her that then ;-)

As for Charles Wheeler - yes he is a well-known "father" of Winnipeg architecture. I personally find his style kind of constricting and "fortified". As I mentioned in a previous post. I really like the flamboyant, Barber & Barber styles much better. But his buildings do stand and if you visit the Winnipeg Free Press (previously Manitoba Free Press dating to the 1870's) archives there are many announcements about his buildings opening and their construction.

His "resume" for buildings in Winnipeg isn't unusual. "Proper" educated easterners have better resumes. No one's "faking" who built a major building in Carman or Deloraine. It would take a lot of coercing for someone to even visit Deloraine in those days by train. I don't find a single entry in that list from MHS that is suspect. None of them are mysterious buildings. His firm took a week to plan most of those smaller buildings. The whole issue was getting the materials and the craftsman - drafting is easy.

I have been to two weddings at St. Mary's Church (what we call the Holy Trinity church in your post). My grandfather was married at St. Mary's. I've also been in the Galt and Sanford buildings. But never in the basements.

If the smoking gun lies in basements - then I can say I've been in one of the oldest and weirdest one that's known in Winnipeg. Underneath this building and connected underground across the street to another building (the street wasn't there when it was built) was the earliest jail after the Hudson's Bay Fort "Brigg" at Upper Fort Garry. It's a rubble foundation with a dirt floor and the old outlines of the cells are still there. Very creepy.

duffinblock1.jpg

It was built in the late 1870's, but was replaced by the Vaughan Street "Gaol" in 1881 (which you can still visit on ghost tours and is the nastiest place for energy and vibes in the province - the Gorilla Strangler was hung there).

In terms of Wheeler's "mysterious" appearance - almost everyone in Winnipeg in the 1870's and 80's showed up to make money and fame. We were the "Chicago of the North" and rapidly growing. Speculation and construction was everywhere. It was a boom town - soon to be city - that was the gateway to the west. Half of the second largest country in the world would be developed from the starting point of Winnipeg. From 1878 to 1910 an entire city was built.

Here's Winnipeg in 1875:

1875 Winnipeg.jpg

Wood buildings built on 50 feet of mud and clay that freezes, heaves and floods every year.

Once there was rail communication and stone masons, more substantial structures started to be built. Here's the first City Hall built a year later:

1st city Hall.jpg

It collapsed by 1883 due to unstable soil (they filled in Cook's Creek and thought it would hold). So what changed to allow us to still have a handful of buildings from the late 1870's and a quite a few from the 1880's that still stand?

The Chicago Fire. Chicago had experienced the same issues with their soil before the fire, but builders there had the opportunity to rebuild the "White City" with all new engineering knowledge. They developed caisson "floating" foundations. Those building techniques were imported here and much larger buildings were constructed, many of which still stand. Although Winnipeg and Chicago don't seem connected now - the whole rail line world went from Toronto to Detroit to Chicago to St, Paul and then to Winnipeg. All building materials and grains went back and forth until the the early 1910's.

Although I can't know what my maternal Great Grandmother may have seen in the Peck Building basement, I can turn to a much bigger building project - in fact the largest one undertaken in Winnipeg before WW II - the Eaton's store.

Eaton's.jpg

Eaton's became the largest retailer in Canada shortly after the Winnipeg store was built. My paternal Great Grandfather was hired by Timothy Eaton in the 1890 as an actuary in Toronto.

He moved his way up to head of merchandising and was the guy who convinced T. Eaton to expand to Winnipeg rather than Montreal. In 1902 they broke ground. The basement/foundation there was mostly dug out by men with shovels and leveled with horses hauling railroad ties to flatten the soil. Piles and caissons were used to support the massive structure. My Great Grandfather was present for all phases of the construction and additions. He worked at that store from 1905 until he retired in 1939 as VP. My grandfather worked there almost his entire life until he retired in 1966 also as VP. My Dad worked there until 1977. I can safely say my Dad was in every corner of that building and it was all Eaton's built. No previous structures.

HM Tucker

Eaton's went under in the 90's and the site was rebuilt into our current hockey arena. It's still the largest footprint of any downtown building in Winnipeg.

I think I can confidently say that Winnipeg has no previously built structures that were incorporated into major buildings. There are weird earthen mounds of unknown provenance, but they were removed and generally regarded as "cursed". If there are anomalies in Europe or Asia that's a different story. From all I've researched on cities in Canada, or even Detroit and Chicago, they all follow a very similar 19th century/early 20th century pattern of building development as Winnipeg (albeit on a much larger scale).

As a "mudflood" capital of North America, Winnipeg seems to have failed the test of the theory.

 
As a "mudflood" capital of North America, Winnipeg seems to have failed the test of the theory.
The city is named after the nearby Lake Winnipeg; the name comes from the Western Cree words for "muddy water" – winipīhk.

French traders built the first fort, Fort Rouge, on the site in 1738.

Fort Rouge was a fort located on the Assiniboine River in Manitoba, Canada, on the site of what is now the city of Winnipeg. Its exact location is unknown.

English explorer Henry Kelsey may have been the first European to see the lake in 1690

Those in bold are, for me, examples of uncertainties claimed as fact and definitive history. Too full of holes and gaps.

The point would be is that there is no way all of these records were re-written by the Cabal/Rothschild's etc. What would be the point? Who cares about a few thousand farmers and trappers living in the northern wilderness and their history?
What was the point of the bible or Christopher Columbus story of discovering America or religions in general etc. Control. Because they can. That's the mindset. Erase the past and control the future. They do it all the time; whoever 'they' are.

Here's Winnipeg in 1875:
Once there was rail communication and stone masons, more substantial structures started to be built. Here's the first City Hall built a year later:
And then we go to this, only five years later? Does that background show even a trace of those wooden shacks; anywhere? I mean, it seems like a good photo op to demonstrate great progress if that is what is intended, otherwise it seems odd, to me anyway.

Enlarge Photo of Second City Hall, City of Winnipeg Photo


No previous structures.
No one is saying all of them are. It's the ones that are lied about and covered up to create false ownership and history with which they gain influence then power then control. A vicious circle of greed. IMO

As a "mudflood" capital of North America, Winnipeg seems to have failed the test of the theory.
Perhaps. Still early days in the research, so, maybe wait and see.

Just as an example:
1871 Manitoba College was established by the Presbyterian Church
1877 Wesley College’s charter was granted to the Methodist Church
1888 Wesley College opened under the leadership of Principal Sparling
1896 Wesley Hall officially opened

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...hUKEwi_nJDAuJD_AhXE13MBHb1NCk4QMygAegUIARDSAQ
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...hUKEwi_nJDAuJD_AhXE13MBHb1NCk4QMygAegUIARDSAQ
University of Winnipeg
About UWinnipeg | About UWinnipeg | The ...


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...hUKEwi_nJDAuJD_AhXE13MBHb1NCk4Qr4kDegUIARDTAQ
Who built it and when? Such vague information. Hard to verify. The lower floor is clearly beneath street level. Why? I have yet to discover why such grand buildings (and others) are built that way; for what reason? Was that a thing in architecture at some point that I am not aware of? See what I mean?
 
Regarding the meaning of nefarious for the C's in this matter of the fairs, I just read the following and I think that a consistent extrapolation can be made about the meaning and the intention:


September 13th 2009

Q: (Joe) True. (Scott) I wonder if that's why there are certain bands where the people totally can't sing, but everyone thinks they're great - I mean, above and beyond marketing and all that kind of stuff?

A: Yes! And some of them activate "interesting" frequencies!

Q: (L) When you say "interesting", what does that mean?

A: Shall we say that it is planned and deliberate for nefarious purposes.
 
Regarding the meaning of nefarious for the C's in this matter of the fairs, I just read the following and I think that a consistent extrapolation can be made about the meaning and the intention:


September 13th 2009

Q: (Joe) True. (Scott) I wonder if that's why there are certain bands where the people totally can't sing, but everyone thinks they're great - I mean, above and beyond marketing and all that kind of stuff?

A: Yes! And some of them activate "interesting" frequencies!

Q: (L) When you say "interesting", what does that mean?

A: Shall we say that it is planned and deliberate for nefarious purposes.
We can only project our own interpretation of nefarious upon the C’s meaning unless it is directly asked of them to define its usage.

I do get a lot of “oh, it’s no big deal, but yeah, you guys are Sooooo royally Flocked” from the C’s, but again, that’s my own projection onto them.
 
A thought popped into my mind lately.

Perhaps the Fairs were a sort of "honey trap" for the public. The PTB's idea, prospect and urge wanting to get the dominating rural population, to move en masse to cities /create large cities. For better control and degradation in the distant future. People on the country side always been more independent... perhaps too independent - yet also harsh at times.

The fairs, especially in the first 50-60 years, where made so grandiose - and i am sure, they were fascinating for many people who visited them. Luring people to think life in cities is easier, has more fashion, larger spectrum of attractive jobs, well - enticing people with all the whistle and bells that would create an idea of modern cities. Promises ! Show-off's. Planting ideas and "products" in peoples minds.

Not unlike the plans of today, in order to get people into "smart cities" and "15 minute cites", by creating mouth watering prospects of super fancy, stylish homes and green and comfortable, easy and safe lifestyles (á lá Brave New World).

Only that the real idea behind it all - seem to be controlled, sealed ghettoes.
 
Who built it and when? Such vague information. Hard to verify.

The architects credited are George Browne & S. Frank Peters and it was built in 1894-95. Easy enough to verify if you take the time.

The lower floor is clearly beneath street level. Why? I have yet to discover why such grand buildings (and others) are built that way; for what reason? Was that a thing in architecture at some point that I am not aware of? See what I mean?

I can't find anything for this specific building on why they designed it the way they did. But I also haven't looked very hard.

I remember reading some time ago that this feature was often done for aesthetic reasons to give buildings a grander appearance. Having steps leading up to the first floor makes the building seem bigger and the lower level just peeking out over the ground is more visually interesting. Though there could also be practical reasons for a lower level to have at least partial access to the ground around the building.

There's also window surrounds and blind windows which give the appearance of lower levels where there are none. These are aesthetic features sometimes used to make a building more visually interesting. These in particular feature heavily in mud flood videos I've seen you post. Though they're never discussed or mentioned.
 
Those in bold are, for me, examples of uncertainties claimed as fact and definitive history. Too full of holes and gaps.

Have you thought about trying to find sources for this to fill in the gaps and holes yourself? In other words, getting books on Winnipeg history and finding the oldest sources you can to put the pieces together yourself.

Not wanting to rely on a Wiki page or historical society page is fine, but you can't claim the whole history of the area is full of holes when you haven't bothered to look deeper than the summaries such pages present. Summaries intentionally leave out details that are extraneous from a broad strokes point of view as hitting the highlights and not all the details is the point of a summary. It's therefore not possible to make a credible claim about the incompleteness or lack of credibility and authenticity of an area's history based solely on a summary of a summary of a summary which is what such pages from Wiki and historical societies represent, broadly speaking.

If you can find some old journals of trappers from the late 1700s who wrote that they saw a giant building resembling the "Gingerbread" Winnipeg City Hall, then that would be something to hang your hat on.

What was the point of the bible or Christopher Columbus story of discovering America or religions in general etc. Control. Because they can. That's the mindset. Erase the past and control the future. They do it all the time; whoever 'they' are.

Leaning heavily on Russell Gmirkin, we can say that it's most likely the creators of the Hebrew Bible had the goal of taking the ideas within Plato's works and applying them for their own immediate goals and ends. They took what seemed like good ideas and went with them to see if they could create a hierarchy with them at the top of the social ladder. They created a fictitious past in order to create a future they wanted.

All this was arrived at through careful analysis of the text of the Hebrew Bible, Plato's works and its influence, as well as through studying the history of the people who used the Hebrew Bible as a cultural weapon. Thousands upon thousands of dedicated thoughtful studying went into this analysis. Simply saying those who created the Hebrew Bible wanted to control their populace because they can is not enough to suggest there were nefarious plans afoot in the creation of the texts. Such a motivation can only be arrived at through a careful analysis of the texts and their historical use.

Upon what texts, specifically, are you basing your hypothesis on?

And then we go to this, only five years later? Does that background show even a trace of those wooden shacks; anywhere? I mean, it seems like a good photo op to demonstrate great progress if that is what is intended, otherwise it seems odd, to me anyway.

That original photo of the wooden buildings, as noted on the picture itself, was only a small portion of a small area of Winnipeg and wasn't the entirety of the city. The building in the picture you shared was completed eleven years after the picture with the wooden buildings and much had changed during that time as you can see in my link below. Also, the cars in the picture you shared prove that picture to be from a much later period, such as maybe the late 1950s judging by the car styles, and explains why there weren't any of those wooden buildings because they would've long been replaced. That is, assuming those wooden buildings were in the same area that later became downtown Winnipeg, which we can't assume and can prove one way or another if we can figure out where Point Douglas north of Browns Bridge was in relation to downtown.

Here's a site that has fifteen old pictures of Winnipeg from the 1870s to the 1890s that provides a photographic timeline of sorts for the city: https://www.livabl.com/articles/news/photos-winnipeg-1800s

No one is saying all of them are. It's the ones that are lied about and covered up to create false ownership and history with which they gain influence then power then control. A vicious circle of greed. IMO

But how are we to know which buildings are supposedly lied about with false ownership attribution? If you're still trying to work through figuring out the identifying markers of the falsely attributed buildings, then how did you even arrive at there being false ownership if you have no idea how to identify which ones are supposedly falsely owned?

Perhaps. Still early days in the research, so, maybe wait and see.

At what point would it be safe to say that Winnipeg doesn't match the hypothesis? At what point would it be safe to say the hypothesis doesn't match the evidence?
 
Winnipeg history and finding the oldest sources you can to put the pieces together yourself.
From the university itself on its history:

The History of The University of Winnipeg​

(Last updated fall 2017)

The University of Winnipeg received its charter in 1967 but its roots date back more than 145 years. The founding colleges were Manitoba College (1871), and Wesley College (1888), which merged to form United College in 1938. In 2017 we celebrated the 50th anniversary of receiving our university Charter, which was signed by then Manitoba Premier Duff Roblin.

The University of Winnipeg, located on Treaty One land, in the heart of the Métis homeland, offers a compact, diverse, multicultural academic community committed to access and excellence. The University of Winnipeg is a provincially and privately funded post-secondary institution with undergraduate and select graduate programs, as well as Collegiate and continuing education divisions.

The University of Winnipeg is large enough to offer over 800 courses in more than 40 subject areas from Indigenous Governance to Women's Studies, yet small enough to make sure students connect with the University's award-winning professors. We also offer Masters degree programs in the arts, science and business. Home to more than 9,300 full- and part-time students, UWinnipeg proudly reflects the diversity of our community, with 13% of incoming students self-identifying as First Nations, Métis and Inuit, and an additional 22% identifying as from a racialized community.

The University of Winnipeg executed a ten-year redevelopment plan from 2005 to 2015 which brought $217 million in new investments to campus and the surrounding community. At the heart of the plan was the University's commitment to providing students with an eco-friendly, relevant learning environment while sharing resources and space with the surrounding neighbourhood.

Historic societies just change words and presentation and repeat pretty much the same information.

applying them for their own immediate goals and ends. They took what seemed like good ideas and went with them to see if they could create a hierarchy with them at the top of the social ladder. They created a fictitious past in order to create a future they wanted.
Exactly.

If you can find some old journals of trappers from the late 1700s who wrote that they saw a giant building resembling the "Gingerbread" Winnipeg City Hall, then that would be something to hang your hat on.
Be my guest. As for personal accounts on witnessing these events, eehm, they are nearly all dead. No one to question really.

Seems more telling that what you we should be able to hang a hat on is missing.

Here's a site that has fifteen old pictures of Winnipeg from the 1870s to the 1890s that provides a photographic timeline of sorts for the city: https://www.livabl.com/articles/news/photos-winnipeg-1800s
Combine the photos with a little critical thinking:
"From a Hudson's Bay Company trading post (Fort Garry) in 1870, with a population of 215, Winnipeg proper has grown to the size of a first-class city of 663,617 people (2011 Census). When the city was incorporated in 1873 there were 1,869 inhabitants."
So THESE people, which would have to include women and children, built ALL this from scratch. The shanties, yeah, but the presentation of only 10 years late, not so much, IMO.

If you're still trying to work through figuring out the identifying markers of the falsely attributed buildings, then how did you even arrive at there being false ownership if you have no idea how to identify which ones are supposedly falsely owned?
Absence of evidence is not evidence that a crime has been committed. If enough circumstantial evidence is introduced to create doubt, and I think there is plenty of that, then the burden of proof falls back on those who have perpetrated the deceit for their gain. Their word is no longer enough.

Just to point out that what we are conditioned to see is not necessarily what we are seeing in reality.
spiky-hair-tree-branches-tricky-pictures
 
The city is named after the nearby Lake Winnipeg; the name comes from the Western Cree words for "muddy water" – winipīhk.

French traders built the first fort, Fort Rouge, on the site in 1738.

Fort Rouge was a fort located on the Assiniboine River in Manitoba, Canada, on the site of what is now the city of Winnipeg. Its exact location is unknown.

English explorer Henry Kelsey may have been the first European to see the lake in 1690

Those in bold are, for me, examples of uncertainties claimed as fact and definitive history. Too full of holes and gaps.


What was the point of the bible or Christopher Columbus story of discovering America or religions in general etc. Control. Because they can. That's the mindset. Erase the past and control the future. They do it all the time; whoever 'they' are.



And then we go to this, only five years later? Does that background show even a trace of those wooden shacks; anywhere? I mean, it seems like a good photo op to demonstrate great progress if that is what is intended, otherwise it seems odd, to me anyway.

Enlarge Photo of Second City Hall, City of Winnipeg Photo



No one is saying all of them are. It's the ones that are lied about and covered up to create false ownership and history with which they gain influence then power then control. A vicious circle of greed. IMO


Perhaps. Still early days in the research, so, maybe wait and see.

Just as an example:
1871 Manitoba College was established by the Presbyterian Church
1877 Wesley College’s charter was granted to the Methodist Church
1888 Wesley College opened under the leadership of Principal Sparling
1896 Wesley Hall officially opened

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.uwinnipeg.ca/_files/images/about-uwinnipeg-wesley-758x381.jpg&tbnid=MMuJEwHqXHHlQM&vet=12ahUKEwi_nJDAuJD_AhXE13MBHb1NCk4QMygAegUIARDSAQ..i&imgrefurl=https://www.uwinnipeg.ca/about/&docid=w0aHXr9Y2CwibM&w=1400&h=704&q=university of winnipeg&client=safari&ved=2ahUKEwi_nJDAuJD_AhXE13MBHb1NCk4QMygAegUIARDSAQ
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://www.uwinnipeg.ca/_files/images/about-uwinnipeg-wesley-758x381.jpg&tbnid=MMuJEwHqXHHlQM&vet=12ahUKEwi_nJDAuJD_AhXE13MBHb1NCk4QMygAegUIARDSAQ..i&imgrefurl=https://www.uwinnipeg.ca/about/&docid=w0aHXr9Y2CwibM&w=1400&h=704&q=university of winnipeg&client=safari&ved=2ahUKEwi_nJDAuJD_AhXE13MBHb1NCk4QMygAegUIARDSAQ
University of Winnipeg
About UWinnipeg | About UWinnipeg | The ...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://www.uwinnipeg.ca/about/&psig=AOvVaw3OpWCLqW9A9O5wpBZvV568&ust=1685103136436000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=2ahUKEwi_nJDAuJD_AhXE13MBHb1NCk4Qr4kDegUIARDTAQ
Who built it and when? Such vague information. Hard to verify. The lower floor is clearly beneath street level. Why? I have yet to discover why such grand buildings (and others) are built that way; for what reason? Was that a thing in architecture at some point that I am not aware of? See what I mean?

@stellar I'm not extrapolating to any other location than Winnipeg. There's nothing hard to verify about the existence of the people that were builders here. Nor the architects. Fort Rouge is the same neighbourhood as Riverview. You should read Kelsey's records of his explorations in the Lake Winnipeg area - they are fascinating, but the actual locations are difficult to pin point. He was never an "official" explorer - as are almost everyone who left Le Petit Nord for Le Grand Nord. We're all a rag tag crew. To get the full picture of written records describing the Winnipeg River/Rupert's Land records, it has to come from multiple directions.

Le Rouge Fort was founded by La Verendreye (or one of his sons), its exact location has never been defined. Any remnant of it - remember it is a fur trading fort in the middle of nowhere - was wiped away by the 1826 flood. It's a fort - not a city. Your backyard and your neighbour's is the same size as that fort. The French abandoned their outposts after La Verendreye "failed" to find the Western Sea (which he was led to believe was Lake Winnipeg). The French and Indian War of the 1760's removed any French influence until the HBC and NWCo came back after the War of 1812 with Scots and Orkneymen to get the business back in place. These are little forts on flood plains. They are easily destroyed after a few years. Dozens of "lost" forts exist on the Red and Assiniboine Rivers.

The uncertainty of the records is because you don't know the extent of the records the exist here. The Hudson's Bay Company was founded in 1670 to extract furs from Manitoba (Rupert's Land at that time). They created thousands of documents of how many furs they collected and traded for until 1870. All of those extremely boring records are here in a massive archive downtown.

You can spend thirty years of your life going through it all if you want. There's probably 15000 lbs of documents in the old Winnipeg Auditorium that is now the HBC archives..


wpg_civic_aud1956.jpg

And then we go to this, only five years later? Does that background show even a trace of those wooden shacks; anywhere? I mean, it seems like a good photo op to demonstrate great progress if that is what is intended, otherwise it seems odd, to me anyway.
And then this was built only five years later? It was. Sorry. The shitty wooden houses? They're still there - not shacks but 1880's small houses. I drive by them every day on the way to work. 1880's wood frame two story's with the worst wiring and three times replaced heating systems from coal, to bunker oil to natural gas? There's hundreds of them in central Winnipeg. All yours for 150K a piece. If you need me to prove this to you - I will go take a bunch of pics in sketchy neighbourhoods next week.

Twenty Yards from City Hall is the Barber Block from 1881 - there's still a horse barn attached to the back of the building. Here's the Bathgate Block built by Barber & Barber in 1883. It's been for sale for about 30 years. You'll see that the entrances have sunk below street level (We live on MUD).

bathgateblock1.jpg

The images of it when it was built are awesome. I've been inside it. It's got very high ceilings (as there was no electricity at the time and needed natural light for work). I love this building and wish it could be saved. But it won't be. It will be one of the last 19th century major structures in Winnipeg that will be pulled down (or crumble).

So theses "mysterious" architects that showed up to build these buildings in an "altered" timeline by some non-Winnipeg power, why are there so many building records that were entered into provincial court evidence when they were sued for being shysters? So yes, a vicious circle of greed and corruption. But nothing mysterious. I've dug into everything I could find in my city, and being 5th generation here, I think I would have found something. Anyone who spends three days here would get the whole picture. And I'll gladly be the tour guide if anyone wants to take me up on it. Steaks and drinks are on me ;-)

Hidden things are out in the woods here. They don't lie in plain view, and the architecture here is not anything that can't be explained. @stellar, why don't you highlight some buildings in your area that you think may have a suspicious history? I've outlined my family and civic history with some detail. You probably have the same level of history available to you in your town/city that you could expand on to take the counter point?
 

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From the university itself on its history:

The History of The University of Winnipeg​

(Last updated fall 2017)

The University of Winnipeg received its charter in 1967 but its roots date back more than 145 years. The founding colleges were Manitoba College (1871), and Wesley College (1888), which merged to form United College in 1938. In 2017 we celebrated the 50th anniversary of receiving our university Charter, which was signed by then Manitoba Premier Duff Roblin.

The University of Winnipeg, located on Treaty One land, in the heart of the Métis homeland, offers a compact, diverse, multicultural academic community committed to access and excellence. The University of Winnipeg is a provincially and privately funded post-secondary institution with undergraduate and select graduate programs, as well as Collegiate and continuing education divisions.

The University of Winnipeg is large enough to offer over 800 courses in more than 40 subject areas from Indigenous Governance to Women's Studies, yet small enough to make sure students connect with the University's award-winning professors. We also offer Masters degree programs in the arts, science and business. Home to more than 9,300 full- and part-time students, UWinnipeg proudly reflects the diversity of our community, with 13% of incoming students self-identifying as First Nations, Métis and Inuit, and an additional 22% identifying as from a racialized community.

The University of Winnipeg executed a ten-year redevelopment plan from 2005 to 2015 which brought $217 million in new investments to campus and the surrounding community. At the heart of the plan was the University's commitment to providing students with an eco-friendly, relevant learning environment while sharing resources and space with the surrounding neighbourhood.

Historic societies just change words and presentation and repeat pretty much the same information.


Exactly.


Be my guest. As for personal accounts on witnessing these events, eehm, they are nearly all dead. No one to question really.

Seems more telling that what you we should be able to hang a hat on is missing.


Combine the photos with a little critical thinking:
"From a Hudson's Bay Company trading post (Fort Garry) in 1870, with a population of 215, Winnipeg proper has grown to the size of a first-class city of 663,617 people (2011 Census). When the city was incorporated in 1873 there were 1,869 inhabitants."
So THESE people, which would have to include women and children, built ALL this from scratch. The shanties, yeah, but the presentation of only 10 years late, not so much, IMO.


Absence of evidence is not evidence that a crime has been committed. If enough circumstantial evidence is introduced to create doubt, and I think there is plenty of that, then the burden of proof falls back on those who have perpetrated the deceit for their gain. Their word is no longer enough.

Just to point out that what we are conditioned to see is not necessarily what we are seeing in reality.
spiky-hair-tree-branches-tricky-pictures
@stellar Winnipeg actually exists ;-) Exactly how we believe it exists ;-)

Does Winnipeg Exist?
 
Twenty Yards from City Hall is the Barber Block from 1881 - there's still a horse barn attached to the back of the building. Here's the Bathgate Block built by Barber & Barber in 1883. It's been for sale for about 30 years. You'll see that the entrances have sunk below street level (We live on MUD).

bathgateblock1.jpg
Is there any chance your historic society may have info on architect AND builder on this structure. It strikes me that a sinking building to that extent (almost an entire floor) would possibly have some serious stability issues. Would they sink evenly without serous displacement/cracking? IDK, just asking, as I am not too familiar with builds on swampy/muddy plains.
So yes, a vicious circle of greed and corruption. But nothing mysterious.
:lol: So, it's all good then.

Anyone who spends three days here would get the whole picture. And I'll gladly be the tour guide if anyone wants to take me up on it. Steaks and drinks are on me ;-)
You had me at steak! :-D
 
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