Theun Mares (Toltec Seer) - Facing The World Crisis

[RedFox]

Hi axj

With Mares, his emphasis is always on doing the self-growth work. So my guess is that working on the self is what will help groups to spot hijackers etc. who are not co-linear with the group.

My understanding is that (And this can be applied to most new age or spiritual works), if there is no specific clarification/knowledge presented of the danger/traps (psychopaths/4d sts/predators mind et al) then how would you even know you need to be aware of spotting a hijacker?? It is the lack of knowledge about the danger that leaves the door open for the danger to exist undetected 99.99% of the time! And even if you do 'pick up on something', without a frame of reference its easy to just see the good (even if its subjective/projected) and dismiss it.
Add to this any hint of 'all you need is love'/'think happy thoughts' new age philosophy and the subjectivity will win over any instinct because its so pervasive/programmed in society....

I've not read the guys work, but from what I've read in this thread he seems to make no mention of the dangers. Hence he leaves the door open for the dangers/corruption/control system etc.
Hence Laura said

In short, Mares is promoting ideas that either deny or conceal one of the most important aspects of our reality that people most desperately need to know about. That amounts to disinformation or vectoring.

 

[Laura]

Yet in my opinion, the self-growth system he provides is more than capable to help people wake up and see for themselves.

How about the growth system he provides is capable of helping SOME people? Like I said, his system is severely lacking in one of the most important things that human beings need to know, according to the material on which THIS forum is based. If you feel that it is adequate to your needs, then you obviously don't belong here. Thanks for dropping by.

 

[axj]

I know that many of us (myself included) are often knee-jerk skeptical, and that is understandable; we swim in a sea of lies and corruption. Mares' way of teaching is probably just right for many people... there is more than one way to the top of the mountain!

I agree. There is more than one way to the top of the mountain and what works for one person is not necessarily the best approach for another.

 

[Mark Meiword]

Hello Tigersoap,

I also didn't want to give you the idea that I was defending Theun Mares work against criticism. His work speaks for itself and I would be interested in reading your genuine criticism if you would challenge it directly instead of going through the "guilt by association" approach.

And yet you ask me to produce a genuine criticism of his works, if you did not care, why would you say that ?

I asked you for genuine criticism, because it gives me the opportunity to test my own knowledge and see whether I have missed something myself. In that spirit, thank you for the response. There just isn't much of value to take from uniformed criticism.

What bothers me for example, as Adpop pointed out is the emphasis on business/money (crystalized power) and rather naive approach overall, but he sounds nice and friendly, I agree.

In his Money, business and politics speech,for example he acknowledges that all the money has been gathered in the hands of a few, thus creating poverty for others.
For TM, the true meaning of bartering has been forgotten, people stop to think outside the "money box" so to speak, conditioned to think this way, so from his own word "they accept a mindest of poverty and therefore it's not surprising that they are living in poverty".

Fine, but he does not explain one bit where that comes from and how to de-brainwash yourself from it (not in this particular speech in any case.).

What I have learned through working with Theun Mares work is the power of simplicity. Simple in my experience means practical. So you may see it as naive, because it is simple, but have you considered whether you yourself have been hooked to "making money" as the only means of survival and how that has shaped your life? What I have also learned from Theuns books is that arriving at clarity as to what the real challenge is is most of the "de-brainwashing" accomplished. So if you are in a mindset of poverty and you have seen this in yourself and how it is not working for you, then if you are a sane individual you will naturally start changing that habit.

I also agree with you that at the moment people don't exactly have enough knowledge of relationships, in general, to sustain these groups without facing major obstacles. But look, the world is busy going to hell in a hand basket so people are going to have to acquire this knowledge one way or the other if they want to survive. At this point they have already forfeited their right to choose to learn the easy way. Now they will be forced to learn the hard way.

I'm not going to debate history with you since, to speak honestly, I am not that interested in what Theun Mares perspective on the history of the middle ages is. I have read a lot of his take on the world situation with regard to banks, money and politics and I haven't seen any contradictions to what I have already researched. Yes, I know all about how the world is run by globalist bankers who control the money supplies and use that to create monstrous monopolies in order to rein in their world government. I am also thoroughly familiar with the history of the Rothschilds etc. If you want to debate Theun Mares perspective on this, then talk to these fellows (_http://www.swordofpower.org/forum/index.php?f=3). You call the globalists psychopaths (which they are), Theun Mares calls them Old Sorcerers (which if the rumors are true, they are) and others call them the New World Order. In each case we are talking about the same nasty flesh and blood people.

What I am interested about with regards to Theun is that he is offering practical solutions that one can take action on. People everywhere seem to think that they can solve their problems by talking them away, but the time for this luxury is fading by the hour. This is a time for action.

 

[Mark Meiword]

An item that may be of interest:

[quote author=Théun Mares from Freedom Vs Shamanism]...the “foreign installations”, the so-called “fliers”, also have no place in any Toltec lineage.

In short, Mares is promoting ideas that either deny or conceal one of the most important aspects of our reality that people most desperately need to know about. That amounts to disinformation or vectoring.
[/quote]

Hello Laura,

LOL I know I am also going to be branded as a heretic for saying this but I think I was about there anyway so why not? Considering how skeptical you people are I wonder how you could believe such BS? I read all of Carlos Castanedas books and I could clearly see how he had gone off the rails after his apprenticeship with Don Juan was terminated. Don Juan made it very clear that Carlos was more interested in airy-fairy garbage than he was with freedom. In fact, most of the books are of Don Juan taking the piss out of Carlos to get him to stop taking himself so seriously. In this respect they are completely hilarious and I love Don Juans sense of humor!

Still it was obvious from reading the books that after Don Juan left Carlos to his own devices he started to make up BS. This includes the ridiculous story of the blue scout aka Nury Alexander, something of which Carlos only "remembered" later, because he was in "left side awareness" when it had happened. This is strange, because in the books, when he describes these memories he describes his behavior as quite normal. In my experience if you are so far into the left side that you cannot remember your experiences, then your behavior is far from normal.

Then of course there are the fliers or foreign installations. Can anyone here come forward and say they have had any practical results from treating these delusions as real? Has anyone "exorcised" these creatures and found their lives changed or improved in any significant way?

Finally there are the so-called "magical passes", which as far as "sorcery practices" go are a joke. In my early days of learning I practiced these "maneuvers" and apart from getting a little exercise they are useless. The most effective way I know of from experience in terms of gathering and storing personal power is by acting impeccably. To try and gather power from other means leaves one open to the very high risk of ending up like this Jonah character.

 

[Mark Meiword]

Yet in my opinion, the self-growth system he provides is more than capable to help people wake up and see for themselves.

How about the growth system he provides is capable of helping SOME people? Like I said, his system is severely lacking in one of the most important things that human beings need to know, according to the material on which THIS forum is based. If you feel that it is adequate to your needs, then you obviously don't belong here. Thanks for dropping by.

Hi axj,

It looks like you have been branded a heretic and I'm sure I'm right behind you. LOL Look if you are interested in discussing what Theun Mares is on about in the article that you posted, then you might find this site interesting
Hey, perhaps Laura is doing you a favor?

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Psalehesost]

[...]

Then of course there are the fliers or foreign installations. Can anyone here come forward and say they have had any practical results from treating these delusions as real? Has anyone "exorcised" these creatures and found their lives changed or improved in any significant way?

The Predator's mind or foreign installation has symbolic importance:

http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Predator%27s_Mind
http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/External_and_Internal_Considering

Very shortly, the Predators would correspond to self-serving higher-density entities, ie. 4D STS, and "their mind" would be the false personality that Gurdjieff spoke of.

There is much more that ties into this to be found in The Wave - the reading of which is recommended since discussion 'round here is based on the concepts in the series. In this way, it also serves somewhat like a FAQ, only it is not a series of questions and answers but rather the online equivalent of several books.

 

[anart]

Mark, you're obviously quite identified with this Mares person - and obviously fairly ignorant about the body of material that we discuss here. Ignorance can be cured with learning and work, as can the identification.

Hello Laura,

LOL I know I am also going to be branded as a heretic for saying this but I think I was about there anyway so why not? Considering how skeptical you people are I wonder how you could believe such BS? I read all of Carlos Castanedas books and I could clearly see how he had gone off the rails after his apprenticeship with Don Juan was terminated. Don Juan made it very clear that Carlos was more interested in airy-fairy garbage than he was with freedom. In fact, most of the books are of Don Juan taking the piss out of Carlos to get him to stop taking himself so seriously. In this respect they are completely hilarious and I love Don Juans sense of humor!

Uhhmm, Mark - it was ALL fiction. Fiction symbolically representing truths. Perhaps if you'd like to actually read the material upon which this forum is based, then you can more constructively participate in the conversation. Your comments and ignorance of what the 'predator' really is indicates you have not read the material. I find this fascinating, since this is exactly what you accused Tigersoap of doing regarding Mare, in a profoundly judgmental way.

You appear to be here solely to promote this Mare person and his 'tales' - you have realized that the people in this forum have found his material lacking and have now gone on the attack. This is infinitely predictable behavior for one identified with a dream. Please understand that this forum exists for a very distinct purpose and encouraging people to dream is not part of that.

If it 'works for you', as they say, then fine - please - go and enjoy your 'journey'.

 

[Gimpy]

Well, I'm still trying to get through Mr. Mares' site. This is not easy as its graphic intensive to the point of silliness. I was curious to see if his teachings touched on the concept of Contraries or not. At this point, it appears moot.

 

[obyvatel]

I just read those rules and I did not see anything about "staying in a relationship no matter what comes".

Hi axj,
This is what led me to make the statement ... "once an investment is made in the form of a relationship, to stay with it no matter what comes."

Quote from _http://www.toltec-legacy.com/public/relationships.html

All of life is merely a system of relationships and if you look very carefully you will see that every relationship, regardless of what type it is, is an investment - an investment in yourself! I personally will not invest in anything unless I believe that it is going to be a good investment, that is, one with good dividends. But once I have invested in something, I am also fully committed to my investment, come hell or high water. As a result, when I look at my life, I know that I must have believed this life to be worthwhile as an investment, otherwise I must assume I was pretty dumb! If it is a good investment, then "for better or for worse", I choose to remain fully committed to my investment, to my life and to you.

It is perhaps quite possible to interprete the above statements in multiple ways assuming different contexts and mine is only one of them.

 

[Laura]

LOL I know I am also going to be branded as a heretic for saying this but I think I was about there anyway so why not? Considering how skeptical you people are I wonder how you could believe such BS?

To what "BS" do you specifically refer? Castaneda or the material on pathology?

I think you aren't very aware of what we do consider useful material or why otherwise you wouldn't make such a silly remark.

If you had read the discussions of Castaneda you would realize that we are quite aware that what Castaneda wrote was fiction. You would also be aware that we only use his descriptions of things when that information is supported by other sources and only because his descriptions are useful because everybody has a different learning style.

The CONCEPT of "the flyer" is supported by numerous other sources which we have analyzed in detail and, as I mentioned, that concept is one of the most important things going in the world today. But somehow, you didn't get what I was saying.

I read all of Carlos Castanedas books and I could clearly see how he had gone off the rails after his apprenticeship with Don Juan was terminated. Don Juan made it very clear that Carlos was more interested in airy-fairy garbage than he was with freedom. In fact, most of the books are of Don Juan taking the piss out of Carlos to get him to stop taking himself so seriously. In this respect they are completely hilarious and I love Don Juans sense of humor!

So, you actually think there was such a person as Don Juan? I don't. I think the entire thing was a fictional construct. Oh, there may have been some mushroom popping SouthWestern dude who called himself a shaman or sorcerer or whatever that Castaneda may have built up into the "type" of Don Juan, but I seriously doubt that there is any real shamanic tradition of any useful sort - that is, not watered down and weakened - in that region. Castaneda got his ideas from Gurdjieff, that's obvious, and he was playing with putting it into a SouthWestern setting. The very fact that he was "playing" is, however, a creative process and in a creative process, quite often, the Universe speaks.

Still it was obvious from reading the books that after Don Juan left Carlos to his own devices he started to make up BS.

You don't get it, do you? The whole thing was made up? Why don't you search the forum and read our discussions of Don Juan and Castaneda? Read Scott Littleton's comments about him (Scott was a fellow anthropologist and friend of Castaneda and is also a friend of mine.)

This includes the ridiculous story of the blue scout aka Nury Alexander, something of which Carlos only "remembered" later, because he was in "left side awareness" when it had happened. This is strange, because in the books, when he describes these memories he describes his behavior as quite normal. In my experience if you are so far into the left side that you cannot remember your experiences, then your behavior is far from normal.

What does "left side" even mean in neurological terms? Do you know? How much have you studied pathology from the scientific point of view so as to better determine what may or may not be realistic in any depictions? We don't think much at all of those nonsensical terms that relate to this side or that side awareness except to understand that was Castaneda's way of trying to give a "SouthWest Flavor" to the reality of various kinds of dissociation.

Then of course there are the fliers or foreign installations. Can anyone here come forward and say they have had any practical results from treating these delusions as real? Has anyone "exorcised" these creatures and found their lives changed or improved in any significant way?

If you are asking such a question, framed in that way, then you haven't got a clue and there's no point in even trying to educate you.

Finally there are the so-called "magical passes", which as far as "sorcery practices" go are a joke.

Of course they are a joke. You really don't have a clue about what this forum is about, do you?

In my early days of learning I practiced these "maneuvers" and apart from getting a little exercise they are useless. The most effective way I know of from experience in terms of gathering and storing personal power is by acting impeccably. To try and gather power from other means leaves one open to the very high risk of ending up like this Jonah character.

Like I said, you really don't have a clue, do you? You just popped in on this one thread of THOUSANDS and thought it was the main thing, eh?

And yeah, here it is: I suggest that you return to your very small, simple, practical little world of Theun Mares where you are comfortable and capable of grasping the concepts easily. If you are any example of the results of his work and teachings, then I'm sure he's doing a very good job with what he has to work with.

 

[axj]

Like I said, his system is severely lacking in one of the most important things that human beings need to know, according to the material on which THIS forum is based. If you feel that it is adequate to your needs, then you obviously don't belong here. Thanks for dropping by.

You know, Laura, I am actually not sure if that is adequate to my needs and that is why I am here and keep reading sott.net, and so on. The information on psychopaths is indeed very critical for finding a solution to the mess we are all in.

 

[PepperFritz]

Mark Meiword:

I'm assuming that you joined this forum simply to "defend" Mares. However, if my assumption is incorrect and you are sincerely interested in this forum and what it is all about, then please let me know -- and I will happily provide you with links to the basic material and information you will need to read in order to bring yourself "up to speed".

:)

 

[Mark Meiword]

Hello Laura,

I suggest that you return to your very small, simple, practical little world of Theun Mares where you are comfortable and capable of grasping the concepts easily. If you are any example of the results of his work and teachings, then I'm sure he's doing a very good job with what he has to work with.

Will do. :) From what I've read on this forum so far I believe you all think you have foreign installations in your head. In fact it gives me a whole new understanding of the term "mental masturbation". LOL

See you on the Christmas tree!
Mark

 

[anart]

Will do. :) From what I've read on this forum so far I believe you all think you have foreign installations in your head. In fact it gives me a whole new understanding of the term "mental masturbation". LOL

Mark

What I find vaguely fascinating about this is that 'Mark' came here to extol the virtues of this body of work/teaching of Theun Mares. His intent was to be, for better or worse, a representative of Mare's body of work on this forum- a champion of it if you will. Mark's resultant behavior is, how shall I say it, an enormous deterrent to the efficacy of the 'teaching' of Mare.

When challenged, his posts degenerated to include, repeatedly, the phrase 'BS' - previously he had at least presented himself somewhat intelligently. Such an infinitesimal challenge to his belief system, and the result was an instant regression to middle school, scatological phrasing and lack of logic. From there, he further degenerated into 'mental masturbation' - perhaps indicating quite clearly the stage of development at which Mark is 'stuck'.

Were I Mare, I think I would beg and plead with Mark to please stop taking my side. If Mark is the result of Mare's work, then 'by their fruits you shall know them' ... and not much more needs to be said.