"those who endure to the end shall save others"

No one said battling the deamon in the room would be a cake walk. If someone can find that, please help me understand as I am momentarily dazed and confused from it's blows. Back to the war at hand.

It's up to you how you take that battle on. As for me, I am off to the next skirmish.
 
I can only hope people from the current session thread would come here and take a reading break from their fullness of themselves.

Hardball anyone?
I played and loved baseball. It is played with a hard ball. A nice idiom for being perhaps confrontation with brutal honesty. I am going to have to revisit that other thread to try to see what you are referring to.
 
@Pat

You said:
I am sad not to be able to help at moment, not being the beacon he needs me to be. he is only 17 and already understands so much in what we discuss in this forum but find it so difficult to get up and go in his every day life tasks.
Thank you @WIN 52

My son is currently 37 and he struggles with the same issues. And I would just shut down, be compliant, similar to your position. Well, that wasn't working out so well for me.

I have decided to meet the demons head on in battle. Besides I actually am not suffering any bloodloss from this battle. Currently I feel that I just might be winning a bit. For that reason it may be time for a coffee break. So I can come back refreshed, ready to resume the battle at hand as it rages on.
 
@Pat

You said:
I am sad not to be able to help at moment, not being the beacon he needs me to be. he is only 17 and already understands so much in what we discuss in this forum but find it so difficult to get up and go in his every day life tasks.
Thank you @WIN 52

My son is currently 37 and he struggles with the same issues. And I would just shut down, be compliant, similar to your position. Well, that wasn't working out so well for me.

I have decided to meet the demons head on in battle. Besides I actually am not suffering any bloodloss from this battle. Currently I feel that I just might be winning a bit. For that reason it may be time for a coffee break. So I can come back refreshed, ready to resume the battle at hand as it rages on.
God speed with the battle.

I had a realisation today after writing to you that I could overcome that nonsense of frustrated attitude I had towards my son. I realized and voiced it with him listening that my attitude had to do with his words reflecting what I lived at his age (mirror, sort of). Because I didn't want him to go through what I felt was like suffering for so many years, because I wanted his path to be easier, I then denied him his free will in choices in order to "protect him".
Waouh, I actually denied my son his free will!! How hurtful can it be? I am so glad that I am seeing that now. No way I want to carry on that path, in the name of helping others, it's so truly wrong!
We were able to have that conversation he was asking for where he wanted to explain why he felt the way he felt and what his aim is. Thank you, again and again @WIN 52
 
God speed with the battle.

I had a realisation today after writing to you that I could overcome that nonsense of frustrated attitude I had towards my son. I realized and voiced it with him listening that my attitude had to do with his words reflecting what I lived at his age (mirror, sort of). Because I didn't want him to go through what I felt was like suffering for so many years, because I wanted his path to be easier, I then denied him his free will in choices in order to "protect him".
Waouh, I actually denied my son his free will!! How hurtful can it be? I am so glad that I am seeing that now. No way I want to carry on that path, in the name of helping others, it's so truly wrong!
We were able to have that conversation he was asking for where he wanted to explain why he felt the way he felt and what his aim is. Thank you, again and again @WIN 52

Pat, it may be useful for you to read the feedback Win has received for his posts about the same topic in the recent session thread, starting from here. It's worth bearing in mind that we are all here to learn and not everyone who posts on the forum has everything figured out. This is why we have this network: to help us calibrate our thinking and fine tune our reading mechanism.
 
Pat, it may be useful for you to read the feedback Win has received for his posts about the same topic in the recent session thread, starting from here. It's worth bearing in mind that we are all here to learn and not everyone who posts on the forum has everything figured out. This is why we have this network: to help us calibrate our thinking and fine tune our reading mechanism.
I am not standing for anybody, but if someone helped me, whatever was said about him/her, I will send my thanks. I can't take and not give back. Maybe, just maybe the thank you will be enough to help him also.
Take care all of you and find peace.
 
perhaps it is not so much about "saving others" by having answers or proselytizing at the end when people may figure out something is very wrong, so much as holding an energy frequency throughout.
My opinion also.

Note that all living beings produce electromagnetic fields (mostly from the heart), which all interact with each others. As such, I think the above idea is totally pertinent.

By "saving others" I think it's not from a physical point of view, such as saving people from the slavery that is currently implemented (i.e. in awaking them to the truth, so they may revolt, etc.). I think that whatever happens you (hopefully) have once and for all decided to say NO to the evil forces, that behind the oligarchy are probably of a (evil) ultra-terrestrial nature (i.e.: evil grays, Satan, etc.). As such, you encourage others to also say NO, though mostly on a spiritual level that consciously eludes most of us. This is an unconscious encouragement and incitation. Read about Rupert Sheldrake's work, on morphogenetic fields.
 
I love this thread as I grapple with this still from time to time. The quote from the transcription this frame made something click.

Perhaps it is so hard for us to realize because it is exactly referring to a higher level of STO. To hope to be saved is service to self, and to hope to be a savior is service to self. So neither of those can be when the truth is realized through culmination of The Work.

Mathematically, if I get this correctly, it makes perfect sense! I love how these ideas have the power to transcend language here 💗

Nicely put.

I came to love this thread as soon as I landed here; for the reminder that we are here to learn, become awake and aware and importantly lead a life that emanates humbleness - doing the hard Work carrying our cross yet having a loving, playful and generous attitude towards those around us. This all, with faith in and understanding that the higher purpose served by a stronger and more honest you is to help others.

I try and continuosly question why I do things, how I am towards loved ones or strangers as self-serving ways can be very subtle in how they play themselves out, very often masked as being altruistic.

Will now head to the Mitigating Chaos and Building Lifelines to our Future thread to read through perspectives and invaluable contributions to what seems like a natural expansion of this topic or teachings.
 
Hi everyone, so, I recently came again across the following quote from the C's and it reminded me about some thoughts I wanted to share on it and important questions (to me at least) I wanted to ask about it:



This quote gives me a lot to think about cause, since I've been on the path towards growing my awareness and expanding my being/consciousness since my early 20's (I'm in my early 30's now), like many others here I have also been troubled in the past by being able to see so much that others don't see, yet, despite of this, feeling sad/depressed (and the like) about not being (or feeling) able to help others more despite of what I know. During the many years, like many others here, I of course arrived at the realization that everyone is here to learn their own lessons and pursue their own goals/paths. Therefore, what I may think is true, right and good may not necessarily be true, right and good for others. Thus, I'd just be feeding my own ego and pursuing my own selfish interests by attempting to help others (who I think could use some help) but who may not actually be looking for or actively asking for help. Based on the law of free will, we have to accept and respect other people's choices no matter how close the people are to us and/or how detrimental the decisions may be to them (the thread "Shouldn't We Be Fighting This" has certainly helped me here as well).

So, what I've come to understand (or think that I have understood) is that we are not here to actually "save" others in the fullest sense of the word but that we can only offer help/support to those who ask. In terms of actually doing the "saving", I've also come to understand that one can only save oneself. Otherwise we would simply be giving away our own power and responsibility which would take us back to what religion promises which in turn we know is inherently flawed. This takes me back now to the above quote from the C's and makes me wonder why they chose those specific words?

I mean, the C's specifically state that:



With that part I can fully agree, since, based on my own understanding (and what I just sated above), we can only really save ourselves.

However, then we have the next part:



Here is where I wonder what the C's really/fully meant and whether my understanding about "saving" may actually be flawed or incomplete. I mean, are all of us (or some of us at least), actually capable of truly saving others and is that meant only in the 3d material sense (just for a while) or actually, and of course far more importantly, in the 4d spiritual sense??

I think that this is a valuable and timely topic to discuss/clarify, and I would really appreciate some thoughts on this (and hopefully also some enlightening answers) by some of the many bright minds and souls active in this forum.
Thanks for reading.

If you endure to the end then you don’t need saving you can share with others what you did to endure to end…It’s up to them to emulate
 
So, what I've come to understand (or think that I have understood) is that we are not here to actually "save" others in the fullest sense of the word but that we can only offer help/support to those who ask. In terms of actually doing the "saving", I've also come to understand that one can only save oneself. Otherwise we would simply be giving away our own power and responsibility which would take us back to what religion promises which in turn we know is inherently flawed. This takes me back now to the above quote from the C's and makes me wonder why they chose those specific words?
I don't agree with that. This is a western individualistic approach that invariably ends in disaster, because alone you will never be able to fill the void inside yourself, but only come to terms with it. You will always be unhappy. That is, it is a way of accepting unhappiness. Some people think that this is the way of strenghts, supposedly you have been victorious over yourself and became stronger this way, more aware and independent, but in my opinion this is the way of stupidity, because it is unnatural and brings only problems.

I'll explain:
HUMAN as a social being is inextricably linked with society. This is the only biological species that does not obey environmental conditions, but artificially transforms the environment into a comfortable social one. A person becomes a person only by entering into social relations, into communication with other people. An individual, for whatever reason, cut off from society from birth, remains an animal, he won't be able to do or understand shit, even to read this forum.

The very essence of human communities is social interaction and it dictated this way by nature itself. It's even hard to survive alone, and in ancient times it was completely impossible. Modern civilization and all its benefits appeared only through social interactions. All the ideas, understanding of this world, dreams and achievements were made by people only thanks to society. Even if you try to hide from everyone in some cave and live there in complete seclusion, you will still use the knowledge that society has given you to survive.

Do you know who the Japanese hikkimore are? Even they do not lie all day on a floor looking at the ceiling, even they communicate with other via the Internet or consume the results of social interactions by other means playing games or watching tv shows. Even your thinking process is a construct formed in you in the process of growing up by the environment, i.e. your society. All the text you wrote here and reflections in it are the result of thousands of years of developing the way of thinking that you have adopted from the society around you.

And how can we not remember that man is an animal with the basic instinct of procreation. Nature itself does not provide that humans can develop further alone even biologically. And you, and I, and every living person, if he is not a psychopath, feels and needs to be understood by someone else just not to feel alone. The emptiness inside can never be cured by loneliness, even if you think that you become somehow stronger this way. It's a self-lie, nature itself did not provide for this, but on the contrary pushes us in every possible way to communicate with other people.

You can compare this process with those crazy bodybuilders who endure their addiction to the point of absurdity, turning their body into an inflated ball of muscles, which not only looks ridiculous, but also seriously undermines their health, as well as it is banally uncomfortable to live when you can't even scratch your back.

As I have already said, this process only leads to inner emptiness. It may seem to you that this is some calm way of living, but in fact it is only emptiness. Being in this state temporarily can be useful after severe stress to reboot yourself, but being in it forever is like dying. Robotic way of existance even tho you're sure that you're somehow "enlightened" this way. Not like the other, right? You're special :D More conscious and free, not like that herd of silly other people. Yeah? This is the way to nowhere. Look, you even think that you can teach other. What a wise being you're, such a level of understanding. wow... I am convinced that many problems of our civilization are dictated by this emptiness and many catastrophes are made by the hands of those who were sure that in this way they would be able to get rid of this emptiness. Nazism, religious radicalism, crimes, sects, etc., even corruption are all attempts to fill a certain void by some other means except the natural one.

Giving yourself to someone else and caring for this another person becoming together a full-fledged being without the destructive voids inside is the natural way. The emptiness sucks everything, like a black hole. Only by dividing ourselves with another we can cope with it coz there will be no more loneliness, then this hole will not suck in your energy, but generate it in the opposite direction through your partner when you'll see his hapiness. Didn't you notice this yet? That we become happy only when we make happy others, especially those who are important to us. How much more will you be able to do and achieve being happy, energized and without the void? Think about it. It is very difficult to find someone you can trust and share your life with, so most have never experienced this, which is why this myth continues to spread that you can somehow get yourself happy and fuilfilled being alone. Most people have simply never experienced inner fullness so they don't know what it is and believe that their miserable, unhappy life is the norm but giving yourself to some other person which is important to you is somehow bad. Nah, to be alone is a silly, weak way of fears and nothing more.

The most striking example is modern Western civilization, the Woke culture with all its pronunciations, attempts to remake the language, rewrite history, cancel people e.t.c. All these are attempts to fill the gap inside, I'm just sure of it. And this process within some people has reached such a critical point that it has begun to destroy the reality around themself only because this exactly approach that you described in your message prevails there. People first came to terms with their emptiness, then they began to be proud of themselves as supposedly special human beings, because they allegedly "conquered" this emptiness, which means they are better than others, well, as a result, this brought them to the new fascism under the guise of the woke culture, which by itself does not fill anything for them, does not fill the void, but it only pushes unhappiness, self-loathing and loss in life, sucks them into this swamp more and more, forcing them to be harsher activists and take more radical forms of these ideas. It's like a snowball.

It doesn't work because it's not natural.

In this situation, I always remember a quote from the film "Solaris", by the brilliant director Andrei Tarkovsky based on the Stanislav Lem's book:

I must tell you that we do not want to conquer Space at all. We want to expand the land to its borders. We don't know what to do with other worlds. We don't need other worlds, we need a mirror. We are struggling with the outer contact and will never find it.

We are in the stupid position of a person rushing towards a goal that he is afraid of, that he does not need. A man needs a man.

Человеку нужен человек,
Чтобы пить с ним горьковатый кофе,
Оставаться рядом на ночлег,
Интересоваться о здоровье.

Чтобы улыбаться просто так,
Чтоб на сердце стало потеплее,
Чтобы волноваться: "Там сквозняк!
Обувай-ка тапочки скорее".

Человеку нужен человек,
Позвонить ему, послушать голос:"
А у нас сегодня выпал снег.
Как ты без меня там? Беспокоюсь! "

Чтобы был приятель, друг, сосед,
И еще сопящая под боком,
Без которой счастья в жизни нет,
Без которой очень одиноко...

Марина Бойкова

It was always like that. And it will be, untill we ll make some AI who will be able to rewrite his code and took all the humanistic traits out of itself after us.
 
Another aspect is the idea of Gurdjieff that the final process of advancing up a step on the staircase of soul evolution is to assist or show the way to someone behind or below us on the ladder; to help them get to where we have been; in essence to replace ourselves or somehow train a replacement. As we are assisted by those above, we also reach a hand back to those below in a continuity.
 
Another aspect is the idea of Gurdjieff that the final process of advancing up a step on the staircase of soul evolution is to assist or show the way to someone behind or below us on the ladder; to help them get to where we have been; in essence to replace ourselves or somehow train a replacement. As we are assisted by those above, we also reach a hand back to those below in a continuity.
Yeah, that's why you cant't achieve basically anything alone. Even to learn how to survive you need someone to teach you first and the teacher himself needs you to share his knowledge or just not to be alone. In the end why to accumulate the knowledge if you just die with it in the end not sharing with others. Imagine a rubber hose that fills with water, but has no outlet. It will destroy itself in the end, first you feel that the water fills you and it's fine, maybe even pleasuable, but then it becomes harder and then you collapse, so what's the meaning to pretend that one's somehow "endured" or "saved" itself on its own? It's unnatural and impossible way to "save" yourself without help of others.
 
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Something I read tonight, and found VERY grounding, and dare I say, deeply “spiritual”, and a reminder.
BE Someone...

“Right now there are Tibetan Buddhist monks in a temple in the Himalayas endlessly reciting mantras for the cessation of your suffering and for the flourishing of your happiness.

Someone you haven't met yet is already dreaming of adoring you.

Someone is writing a book that you will read in the next two years that will change how you look at life.

Nuns in the Alps are in endless vigil, praying for the Holy Spirit to alight the hearts of all of God's children.

A farmer is looking at his organic crops and whispering, "nourish them."

Someone wants to kiss you, to hold you, to make tea for you.

Someone is willing to lend you money, wants to know what your favorite food is, and treat you to a movie.

Someone in your orbit has something immensely valuable to give you — for free.

Something is being invented this year that will change how your generation lives, communicates, heals and passes on.

The next great song is being rehearsed.

Thousands of people are in yoga classes right now intentionally sending light out from their heart chakras and wrapping it around the earth.

Millions of children are assuming that everything is amazing and will always be that way.

Someone is in profound pain, and a few months from now, they'll be thriving like never before. From where they are, they just can't see it.

Someone who is craving to be partnered, to be acknowledged, to arrive, will get precisely what they want — and even more. And because that gift will be so fantastical in its reach and sweetness, it will quite magically alter their memory of angsty longing and render it all "So worth the wait."

Someone has recently cracked open their joyous, genuine nature because they did the hard work of hauling years of oppression off of their psyche — this luminous juju is floating in the ether, and is accessible to you.

Someone just this second wished for world peace, in earnest.

Some civil servant is making sure that you get your mail, and your garbage is picked up, that the trains are running on time, and that you are generally safe.

Someone is dedicating their days to protecting your civil liberties and clean drinking water.

Someone is regaining their sanity.

Someone is coming back from the dead.

Someone is genuinely forgiving the seemingly unforgivable.

Someone is curing the incurable.

You.
Me.
Some.
One.
Now.
~ Danielle LaPorte via Mary Standing Otter
 

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