Tom Cox AKA "Montalk"

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RecklessAllegory said:
Just caught wind of this issue, I'm new and decades behind it seems in regard to the C's message. I'm reading both sides of the argument "LKJ vs Montalk" and using my own discernment. My discernment says focus on the C's message not messenger. Just sayin'...

Welcome to the forum, RecklessAllegory. Have you read the entire thread? I found that focusing just on the C's message, without understanding the context which involves the messenger and what was actually going on during the time of each session, gave me only a fraction of understanding the C's and how I might maneuver more successfully through this strange world we live in. As the C's said "Learning can be fun." :D
 
NormaRegula said:
RecklessAllegory said:
Just caught wind of this issue, I'm new and decades behind it seems in regard to the C's message. I'm reading both sides of the argument "LKJ vs Montalk" and using my own discernment. My discernment says focus on the C's message not messenger. Just sayin'...

Welcome to the forum, RecklessAllegory. Have you read the entire thread? I found that focusing just on the C's message, without understanding the context which involves the messenger and what was actually going on during the time of each session, gave me only a fraction of understanding the C's and how I might maneuver more successfully through this strange world we live in. As the C's said "Learning can be fun." :D

Yeah, it would be great, RecklessAllegory, if you could share more on that. Would help us better understand what you meant to say. :flowers:
 
To me there is no way I can explain my discernment so I won't even try, however, I feel that when "bad" things happen to people it changes them of course. I feel like there was a change in focus and everyone follows what they believe is right in the end so I'm not going to judge. I love Laura's writing style and her books are amazing but after a certain year I feel that a change occurred and well...I will focus on her books prior to that point.
 
RecklessAllegory said:
To me there is no way I can explain my discernment so I won't even try, however, I feel that when "bad" things happen to people it changes them of course. I feel like there was a change in focus and everyone follows what they believe is right in the end so I'm not going to judge. I love Laura's writing style and her books are amazing but after a certain year I feel that a change occurred and well...I will focus on her books prior to that point.

And what kind of change was that you believe you have identified and in which year did it occur?
 
RecklessAllegory said:
To me there is no way I can explain my discernment so I won't even try, however, I feel that when "bad" things happen to people it changes them of course. I feel like there was a change in focus and everyone follows what they believe is right in the end so I'm not going to judge. I love Laura's writing style and her books are amazing but after a certain year I feel that a change occurred and well...I will focus on her books prior to that point.

I am sorry to tell you that I am not trusting your discernment one bit.
You just joined this forum one month ago, and already you think you know more than anybody.

Just like your name, you are Reckless cocky.
Probably your head is swelled too big from your miss-leading false personality.
 
RecklessAllegory said:
To me there is no way I can explain my discernment so I won't even try, however, I feel that when "bad" things happen to people it changes them of course. I feel like there was a change in focus and everyone follows what they believe is right in the end so I'm not going to judge. I love Laura's writing style and her books are amazing but after a certain year I feel that a change occurred and well...I will focus on her books prior to that point.

I would rather say, that there are numerous changes. Every time some new information enter the scene, things change accordingly. I deeply distrust someone who, no matter what information he receives, don't change a bit. And not only do "bad" things change people, but also "good" things as well.

I guess, to say that one would like to stick to a certain period before a perceived change took place that makes one feels uncomfortable tells more about the reader than the messanger. Also, just think about how many more changes you missed during the years? But yeah, it would be interesting to know what you are refereeing to specifically.
 
Kay Kim said:
RecklessAllegory said:
To me there is no way I can explain my discernment so I won't even try, however, I feel that when "bad" things happen to people it changes them of course. I feel like there was a change in focus and everyone follows what they believe is right in the end so I'm not going to judge. I love Laura's writing style and her books are amazing but after a certain year I feel that a change occurred and well...I will focus on her books prior to that point.

I am sorry to tell you that I am not trusting your discernment one bit.
You just joined this forum one month ago, and already you think you know more than anybody.

Just like your name, you are Reckless cocky.
Probably your head is swelled too big from your miss-leading false personality.

Is that way of speaking, to anyone, necessary? Maybe there's a misunderstanding in the case of recklessallegory. Or maybe, that's just their opinion. Your head seems to be the only one ''swelling'', in my view, because reacting to something you seem to perceive as ignorant or ''cocky'' with anger and name-calling is no way to have a discussion. I wanted to hold my tongue, but telling someone they have a ''false personality'' after they've only made 4 post is a pretty shallow and mechanical way of responding to a simple disagreement, from where I'm sitting. Maybe you should try EE and practice external consideration, rather than lashing out at someone who's views don't align with yours.

As far as the perceived change in the material, if you disagree, that's fine. I'm sure you'd fit with the majority of people on this site who work very hard to keep it constantly updated and the readers of said material. I know I enjoy it myself, but I also acknowledge that 20 years has passed since this project was started. A lot can happen in 20 years, and not everyone is going to agree with any sort of change. An example of change could be SOTT. I think SOTT is entirely necessary because what's happening now on a socio-political level worldwide is very important and intertwines on a cosmic level as an indicator of what's to come, but some may not like that, especially coming from the wave series (which was written a little while ago) to the forum (which updates in real time, essentially). Because of SOTT's implementation, the time spent has to be partitioned differently, I'm sure, which is without a doubt going to upset some portion, no matter how big or small, of the reader base. That's just one example of change. Change isn't inherently a good or bad thing, and people are going to see it differently. That's just the bottom line, no need to get upset about it.

As far as ''discernment'' goes. I think it differs from person to person. I don't think it really matters if you trust someone's discernment that has little to nothing to do with you, other than having an account on the same website as you. Are you saying you think their discernment is objectively wrong, or wrong for themselves personally? Maybe their discernment is coming from a place that's trying to steer them towards a certain path that's right for them. There are so many things at play here that we don't know. Maybe their higher self is directing them to another community they'd fill a role in because that role is filled here? Who knows? I certainly don't (neither do you). it's completely open. My point is that whatever is stemming to cause their opinion is not inherently right or wrong. It's not recklessly cocky to listen to your gut feelings. Maybe how they feel about the community or laura has nothing to do with the community or laura and everything to do with how they feel on an internal level that none of us could possibly know for anyone, other than ourselves.

I think back to the stickied thread of the rules which states something similar to:

''maybe we aren't ready for you, maybe you aren't ready for us''

I'm not trying to persuade anyone (recklessallegory, specifically.) to leave, but I am pointing out that their are already guidelines in place for these types of discussion and lashing out at the ''newbie'' because you disagree with them is just not appropriate, at all. How long they've been on the forum doesn't matter either, considering a majority of it is accessible without an account and the material has been around for 20 years now. Not saying it was intentional, but this is the level of thought put into your rebuttal: Straw Man Argument

[quote author=Wikipedia]
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.[1]

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]

This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.

Allegedly, straw-man tactics were once known in some parts of the United Kingdom as an Aunt Sally, after a pub game of the same name where patrons threw sticks or battens at a post to knock off a skittle balanced on top.[4][5][/quote]
 
Kay Kim said:
I am sorry to tell you that I am not trusting your discernment one bit.
You just joined this forum one month ago, and already you think you know more than anybody.

Just like your name, you are Reckless cocky.
Probably your head is swelled too big from your miss-leading false personality.

Kay Kim, that was rude and unhelpful. Do we need to put you on moderation?
 
Laura said:
Kay Kim said:
I am sorry to tell you that I am not trusting your discernment one bit.
You just joined this forum one month ago, and already you think you know more than anybody.

Just like your name, you are Reckless cocky.
Probably your head is swelled too big from your miss-leading false personality.

Kay Kim, that was rude and unhelpful. Do we need to put you on moderation?

FWIW, In my experience in researching the C's material (across multiple websites, and view points [From Weidner to Montalk]), it's been under a pretty consistent attack by PTB and charlatans. Of course I'm not telling you anything new since you've been the center of the attacks :/ ... but I think because of that it makes it really easy for some members of the community to frame things in a us vs them mindset. Pair that with human nature, how someone's day went, and the current state of humanity and the underlying reason for the mentality begins to surface, to me at least. Maybe that's just a fear that we have to overcome.. I know I get that same way about topics I don't want to be wrong about, it just depends on if the topic at hand pushes my buttons or not. This community has made me more comfortable with being wrong though, and I'm eternally grateful for that. I think this falls back on living without anticipation, but I could be wrong.


Just a random thought on the whole montalk thing: isn't it ridiculous how people come here trying to propagate their ideas and then completely victimize themselves and go on an all out war path when their ideas don't catch? I've seen more than a few words of ''ex-affiliates'' on this material, and the trend seems to be to try to infiltrate this community for personal gain and then acting as if the group attacked you because you got called out for your actions.
 
Perri475 said:
FWIW, In my experience in researching the C's material (across multiple websites, and view points [From Weidner to Montalk]), it's been under a pretty consistent attack by PTB and charlatans. Of course I'm not telling you anything new since you've been the center of the attacks :/ ... but I think because of that it makes it really easy for some members of the community to frame things in a us vs them mindset. Pair that with human nature, how someone's day went, and the current state of humanity and the underlying reason for the mentality begins to surface, to me at least. Maybe that's just a fear that we have to overcome.. I know I get that same way about topics I don't want to be wrong about, it just depends on if the topic at hand pushes my buttons or not. This community has made me more comfortable with being wrong though, and I'm eternally grateful for that. I think this falls back on living without anticipation, but I could be wrong.

I think a good rule of thumb is to first give people who disagree about something the benefit of the doubt to see where they are coming from. This is good manners and a basic way of practicing the work. It can also open up a discussion on whatever grievance or issue when there is some degree of sincerity on both ends. Such a conversation is difficult to achieve when people feel they are in a defensive position. If emotions are running high it's usually a sign that it's better to either not post, or at least write a draft and revisit it with the intention of revising when the horses have calmed down.

We're 'works in progress', or hopefully at least are trying to be works in progress. Many people have experienced benefits from the efforts made here, but the knowledge gained needs to be applied in order to be helpful to others. Using work terms/principles to insult others achieves the exact opposite of what they're for. A good way to show that you've been helped in one way or another is by acting with decency when pricked.

Perri475 said:
Just a random thought on the whole montalk thing: isn't it ridiculous how people come here trying to propagate their ideas and then completely victimize themselves and go on an all out war path when their ideas don't catch? I've seen more than a few words of ''ex-affiliates'' on this material, and the trend seems to be to try to infiltrate this community for personal gain and then acting as if the group attacked you because you got called out for your actions.

I think it is as the sayings go: the proof of the pudding is in the eating, or you will know them by their fruits. As far as I know Montalk's project ended some time ago and pretty much fizzled out.
 
Renaissance said:
I think a good rule of thumb is to first give people who disagree about something the benefit of the doubt to see where they are coming from. This is good manners and a basic way of practicing the work. It can also open up a discussion on whatever grievance or issue when there is some degree of sincerity on both ends. Such a conversation is difficult to achieve when people feel they are in a defensive position. If emotions are running high it's usually a sign that it's better to either not post, or at least write a draft and revisit it with the intention of revising when the horses have calmed down.

We're 'works in progress', or hopefully at least are trying to be works in progress. Many people have experienced benefits from the efforts made here, but the knowledge gained needs to be applied in order to be helpful to others. Using work terms/principles to insult others achieves the exact opposite of what they're for. A good way to show that you've been helped in one way or another is by acting with decency when pricked.

When I said maybe you should use EE and externally consider others I wasn't, at least to my knowledge, trying to be petty or back-handed, although, I can see how it may have come off that way (responding to ''using work terms to insult''). If that's what you were referring to then my apologies for not conveying my point, as it was sincere and meant to be taken literally rather than sarcastically. I had no intentions of insulting anyone, so once again I apologize if that's how it came off.

''trying to be works of progress'' is where I feel I'm at currently, that's a good way of putting it! Extending decency towards those who ''prick'' me is basically the mountain I'm trying to climb right now, so I'm glad you said that as it's kind of a mental kick in the butt.

Renaissance said:
I think it is as the sayings go: the proof of the pudding is in the eating, or you will know them by their fruits. As far as I know Montalk's project ended some time ago and pretty much fizzled out.

Well, I guess when you try to take other's fruit and don't plant anything with it.. you aren't left with much of anything except rotten fruit. Projects eventually fizzing out also seems to be a trend of those who tried to exploit this forum, haha!
 
Perri475 said:
When I said maybe you should use EE and externally consider others I wasn't, at least to my knowledge, trying to be petty or back-handed, although, I can see how it may have come off that way (responding to ''using work terms to insult''). If that's what you were referring to then my apologies for not conveying my point, as it was sincere and meant to be taken literally rather than sarcastically. I had no intentions of insulting anyone, so once again I apologize if that's how it came off.

I didn't get the impression that you were being insulting. I was referring to Kay Kim's post, so it was me who should have been more clear!

Perri475 said:
Well, I guess when you try to take other's fruit and don't plant anything with it.. you aren't left with much of anything except rotten fruit. Projects eventually fizzing out also seems to be a trend of those who tried to exploit this forum, haha!

Indeed! While I doubt Tom Montalk is similar in nature to the Weidner/Bridges type, there is some similarity in what has become of their projects. 'Dreams of the past' seems appropriate.
 
I never believe anything this strongly before. Thus, I have purpose in life now.

And it was disgust to see, all the useless miss-leading false doctrine of new-age stuffs.

So, I admit that I have a issue of rush things or express my thoughts hastily without pondered other person. And this opportunity that turn up for me to see consciously that, I need to redress my issue.

So, now on I will give least one day to thinking over for the some particular subjects, before I post it. That way I might develop consideration to others and become better way to communicate with everybody.
If anybody see, anything I need to improve further, please point out for me to see it.
Thank you very much.
 
Renaissance said:
I didn't get the impression that you were being insulting. I was referring to Kay Kim's post, so it was me who should have been more clear!
Ahh. I tend to read too much into things sometimes so thank you for the clarification, eased my anxious soul!

Renaissance said:
Indeed! While I doubt Tom Montalk is similar in nature to the Weidner/Bridges type, there is some similarity in what has become of their projects. 'Dreams of the past' seems appropriate.

Yeah, I don't think Tom is nearly as vicious and sociopathic as Weidner/Bridges. Misled? Sure, but who am I to make any judgement I guess haha. Funny enough montalk's site is what led me to the C's material so I am thankful for that. Weidner ticks me off because his name is plastered on almost every search engine result any time I'm trying to do research on Fulcanelli!



Kay Kim said:
I never believe anything this strongly before. Thus, I have purpose in life now.

And it was disgust to see, all the useless miss-leading false doctrine of new-age stuffs.

So, I admit that I have a issue of rush things or express my thoughts hastily without pondered other person. And this opportunity that turn up for me to see consciously that, I need to redress my issue.

So, now on I will give least one day to thinking over for the some particular subjects, before I post it. That way I might develop consideration to others and become better way to communicate with everybody.
If anybody see, anything I need to improve further, please point out for me to see it.
Thank you very much.

We're all learning here. I know I fall under the exact same sort of mindsets if I get into a disagreement with my roommates or partner. It's just something you have to be aware of and try to ''keep below the neck''. Have a nice day, Kay Kim :).
 
TBH, this Montalk issue wasn't handled in the best way (if there was any "good" way to handle it at all). The emails (those regarding the arming stuff on that guy's website) didn't help either.
Sure, Laura was correct about assessing the situation, but that doesn't mean the guy was 100% wrong. :P

At least in the sense that the emails, even if inspired by knowledge, were written entirely out of fear. And not only fear is always a bad guide, it's very easy to dismiss it for those that don't feel it at that time (and he didn't feel it).

In the end, though, i don't think there was anything to be done anyway. I wouldn't be surprised that, by the time first email was sent, French intelligence already knew about the content on that website. If that's the case, no matter what Laura did, even if she did convince him to remove it, the bureaucratic machine was already on the loose.
 
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