Trump era: Fascist dawn, or road to liberation?

[genero81]

I feel pretty despondent by all of this. Are we seeing a splitting of realities? I mean it's ironic, in the truest sense of the word, that those who are buying the 'reality creators' version of events are accusing those with a more objective viewpoint of being in an alternate reality. It occurred to me that one fundamental thing that makes a big difference on which 'camp' you find yourself in is whether or not you grasp that the U.S. Intelligence Agencies are the real traitors to the U.S. people. I realize it's a bitter pill to swallow, but come on people!

 

[Cosmos]

I feel pretty despondent by all of this. Are we seeing a splitting of realities? I mean it's ironic, in the truest sense of the word, that those who are buying the 'reality creators' version of events are accusing those with a more objective viewpoint of being in an alternate reality. It occurred to me that one fundamental thing that makes a big difference on which 'camp' you find yourself in is whether or not you grasp that the U.S. Intelligence Agencies are the real traitors to the U.S. people. I realize it's a bitter pill to swallow, but come on people!

Yes I think that there is a good chance that what we are witnessing right now is a splitting of realities. This is just the latest and most outrages thing in that regard though. We can see it every day and everywhere, to one extend or the other. It is just unbelievable that people believe that absolutely clear and utter nonsense. I can hardly wrap my mind around this. It is so utterly strange. It literally stares you right into the face.

It seems like there is cascade downward spiral at play here. Every single thing the mainstream people now bring up as justification for their deranged "worldview", is build upon lie after lie. Somewhere down the line a person just believed one lie and than the next lie build upon it.

It seems like if you start to firmly believe one lie, it leads to a open door for the next one. And on it goes in a downward spiral. Some people just seem to have lost the plot completely.

 

[genero81]

It seems like if you start to firmly believe one lie, it leads to a open door for the next one. And on it goes in a downward spiral. Some people just seem to have lost the plot completely.

Yes, I didn't mention it but this is what's happening to the guy I live with. Pretty much exactly as you describe, which is definitely playing a part in my despondency. I'm watching it happen right before my eyes.

 

[Cosmos]

Tucker Carlson and Stephen Cohen React To Trump/Putin Meeting In Helsinki

 

[Neil]

Just when I had written Trump off as a hopeless puppet, he turns around and surprises me. He does seem to be trying mightily. The deep state is not going to allow this. Unless Trump has some serious protection waiting in the shadows, I think his goose is cooked. All of the screaming about treason from the Washington elite pretty strongly betrays what they plan to do. I'm rather skeptical his Zionist buddies will back him up on this one. If they do take him down, I don't think the "alt right" will take it sitting down. My first impression from this meeting is that it has drawn the much anticipated US civil war much closer. I can already hear the "advanced assassination tech" powering up. Maybe Trump can pull a rabbit out of his hat, we'll see.

 

[Cosmos]

Just when I had written Trump off as a hopeless puppet, he turns around and surprises me. He does seem to be trying mightily. The deep state is not going to allow this. Unless Trump has some serious protection waiting in the shadows, I think his goose is cooked. All of the screaming about treason from the Washington elite pretty strongly betrays what they plan to do. I'm rather skeptical his Zionist buddies will back him up on this one. If they do take him down, I don't think the "alt right" will take it sitting down. My first impression from this meeting is that it has drawn the much anticipated US civil war much closer. I can already hear the "advanced assassination tech" powering up. Maybe Trump can pull a rabbit out of his hat, we'll see.

Even if we assume he caved in to the deep state a while ago, which I'm still not sure about, the fact still remains that he is a human being and things can change at any moment. I think there is a good possibility that meetings like this with Putin give him some needed sanity and rationality back which he hardly gets anywhere else.

I never got the impression that he was wanted as president, even if it seemed like he caved in to the deep state, at some point. They didn't expect him to be there and still want someone else there who just does there bitting without question. Trump is still a person that tries to do things his own way, which is a direct threat to the plans of the empire.

They want him gone sooner or later and replace him with a Killary person IMO. That is still my impression. As was mentioned here and here, the facts on the ground speak for Trump, both inside the US and outside of it.

It is also far too easy to make fun of Trump and think he is "too stupid or naive" and says "reckless things". Just put yourself in his shoes for a moment and you realize under what enormous pressure he is and that "strange statements" from him every now and then, can be expected from a person with a conscience that gets defamed and misrepresented everywhere and is under such pressure!

Sometimes I think he just is rather confused by all of this and says things out of pressure and/or in the sense of "giving the wolf some food". When everyone around you is hackish and you are constantly bombarded with nonsense and Propaganda, it is hard to grip to your senses.

So far I'm pretty impressed by Trump and what he accomplished, despite the enormous forces against his presidency.

 

[angelburst29]

Tucker Carlson and Stephen Cohen React To Trump/Putin Meeting In Helsinki

Pashalis, just a simple observation - Luc Posted the same Tucker Carlson video - a few hours earlier today .... (#1661)

On a positive note, this piece by Tucker Carlson is just awesome, especially how he totally destroys the leftie braindead at the end of the clip. Tucker really is one smart, disagreeable SOB, gotta love him!

 

[angelburst29]

17.07.2018 - Efforts to Isolate Russia Have Failed - Putin
Efforts to Isolate Russia Have Failed - Putin

[...] [...] [...]

US-Russia Ties Should Not Be Held Hostage to Mueller Probe - During the wide-ranging interview, Vladimir Putin also explained his position on the so-called "Russian interference" in the US elections by saying that the issue is basically an outcome of internal American political fights. "These are domestic political games in the United States. It is not necessary to make relations between the US hostage to this internal political struggle," Putin said.

"It is quite clear to me that this is used in the internal political struggle. And American democracy should not be proud of using such dirty methods in political rivalries," he added.

Moreover, Moscow is surprised Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office has yet to send an official request related to the indictment of 12 Russian intelligence officers given a US-Russian criminal treaty is in place, President Vladimir Putin said in an interview.

"With the United States, we have a treaty for assistance in criminal cases… that exists from 1991. It’s still in force and it works sufficiently today," Putin told Fox News on Monday. "Why wouldn’t Special Counsel Mueller send us an official request within the framework of this agreement? Our investigators would be acting in accordance with this treaty. They will question each individual that American partners are suspecting of something. Why no single request was filed? Nobody sent a single formal letter, formal request.
It simply surprises me."

Earlier in the day, during a joint presser with US President Donald Trump in Helsinki, Putin said that Mueller could send an official request to question people named in the indictment. Employees of the Russian prosecutor's office and investigative authorities can conduct this questioning and then send relevant materials to the United States.

I'm wondering, if I'm detecting "a Political maneuver" on Putin's part, in suggesting - Mueller could send "an official request" to the Russian prosecutor's office - in regards to Mueller's indictment of 12 Russian Intelligence Officers ... opening up a legal loophole, by which, the Russian Attorney General can also send "an official request" to the US - to question a number of US officials and intelligence agents (connected to the Browder Case)? Apparently, Browder was involved in transferring $400,000 from Russia - to the US Democratic Party - (that C.a, Posted a twitter on earlier.)

17.07.2018 - Russian Prosecutors Want to Question US Officals, Ex-Envoy, Over Browder Case
Russian Prosecutors Want to Question US Officials, Ex-Envoy, Over Browder Case

William Browder, founder of UK-based Hermitage Capital Management investment fund, is wanted in Russia for various offenses, including tax evasion, since 2013.

The Office of Russian Attorney General is poised to send an official request to the United States' authorities to question a number of US officials and intelligence agents, including the former US ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul, as part of a criminal case against Hermitage Capital Management CEO William Browder.

"As part of the investigation of one of the criminal cases against William Browder and his criminal group, we’re ready to send another request to the US authorities to grant us permission to question these very employees of the US intelligence agencies, as well as a number of other US government officials and businessmen, in order to charge them for the crimes committed by Browder," Alexander Kurennoy, spokesman for the Russia’s Office of Prosecutor General, said.

According to him, the list of people sought by Moscow for questioning includes "employees of the US National Security Agency — Todd Hyman, who signed under an oath a lawsuit filed in the US court on behalf of Browder, Svetlana Engert, who took from Russia the stolen materials from the criminal case, Alexander Shvartsman, who was Browder's handler while he was in the US."

Kurennoy also added that the prosecutors "have questions not only for US citizens", and would also like to have a word with certain intelligence agents from other countries.

For example, we would like to talk with Christopher Steele, an agent of the British MI-6. For a long time, he had contacts with a group of lobbyists of the 'Magnitsky Act' and, interestingly, it was through this person that the very investigation of the special prosecutor [Robert] Mueller, which everyone knows as the Trump Dossier, was initiated," he added.

The Prosecutor General's Office also claimed that Browder's group employed offshore schemes to withdraw over $1.5 billion from Russia, with about $400,000 of which "were transferred to the accounts of the US Democratic Party."

In May 2018, Browder announced on Twitter that he was arrested by the Spanish police in Madrid on a Russian Interpol arrest warrant.

However, several hours after being detained, Browder was released after Spanish authorities announced that the warrant was invalid.

In Russia, the UK financier has been wanted for various offenses since 2013. In the most recent case in December, a Moscow court found Browder guilty of tax evasion, sentencing him in absentia to nine years in prison and charging him and his business partner Ivan Cherkasov with $72.9 million in unpaid taxes.

In February 2017, a Moscow court ruled to arrest Browder and Cherkasov in absentia. The United Kingdom has denied requests to have them extradited to Russia.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1019176898138476550

 

[Seamus]

FWIW I saw this on Sputnik today and think it might be relevant to this discussion:

The Media, Kids’ Behavior More Important US Issues Than ‘Situation With Russia’

A Gallup survey that routinely checks the US pulse on what Americans find to be the most pressing problems impacting their lives and the country found that almost nobody thinks the so-called Russiagate narrative is among the top issues.

A June 2018 poll of the most important problems in America — as perceived by the Ken Bones and Joe the Plumbers of the world — found that the "situation with Russia" was the most important problem to so few Americans that pollsters couldn't represent it numerically.

Instead, it turns out that basically everything that customarily concerns Americans, like having a job, poor leadership exhibited in government, the state of race relations, immigration and the ability to see a doctor, weigh far more heavily as problems than what Moscow might be doing.

According to the poll, lack of respect for one another, unifying the country, poverty and homelessness, crime, pollution, national security, international issues, ethics, wars/war, the situation with North Korea, the way children are raised, caring for the elderly, and election reform are all more important non-economic issues than the "situation with Russia."

The survey allowed participants to select multiple issues as the most important issue, which is why the numbers add up to 112 percent instead of 100 percent, Gallup noted.

The "situation with Russia" has rocked the capital of the US and some of the legacy media outlets who can't stop seeing Russia — from their backyards, perhaps. For instance, The New York Times broke from their typically liberal standard to make fun of US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin with a cartoon that in any other publication would be instantly condemned as deeply homophobic.

Indeed, according to Gallup, "the media" registered as more problematic than the "situation with Russia." Just yesterday, CNN's Anderson Cooper abandoned his role as a reporter in Helsinki, Finland, and went straight into his personal opinions and speculations following the meeting between Putin and Trump. "You have been watching perhaps one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president at a summit in front of a Russian leader," Cooper quipped.

I find this pretty interesting because it suggests that most Americans don't give a hoot about the "situation with Russia" and all of this hysteria that we're seeing in the media and on sites like Facebook, Twitter and Reddit might be coming from a very small and very vocal minority. Personally I was pretty relieved to read this after combing through those sites, I think I was almost deaf from the mass media echo chamber! If we can believe this poll it looks like dissatisfaction with poor leadership in government and immigration concerns are by far the biggest things people are worrying about right now.

 

[Windmill knight]

You have probably seen this by now:

Trump tries to calm political storm over Putin summit, says he misspoke

U.S. President Donald Trump tried on Tuesday to calm a storm over his failure to hold Russian President Vladimir Putin accountable for meddling in the 2016 U.S. election, saying he misspoke in a joint news conference in Helsinki.

Trump stunned the world on Monday by shying away from criticizing the Russian leader for Moscow's actions to undermine the election and cast doubt on U.S. intelligence agencies, prompting calls by some U.S. lawmakers for tougher sanctions and other actions to punish Russia.

"I said the word 'would' instead of 'wouldn't,'" Trump told reporters at the White House, more than 24 hours after his appearance with Putin. "The sentence should have been, 'I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be Russia.'"

[...]

Mainly reading from a prepared statement, Trump said on Tuesday he had complete faith in U.S. intelligence agencies and accepted their conclusions. But he appeared to veer from his script to also hedge on who was responsible for the election interference.

"It could be other people also - there's a lot of people out there," he said.

Democrats dismissed Trump's statement as political damage control.

"This has to be recognized for what it is, which is simply an effort to clean up the mess he made yesterday, which is beyond the capacity of any short statement to repair," said Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat on the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee.

Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer said Trump's comments on Tuesday were another sign of weakness, particularly his statement that it "could be other people" responsible for the election meddling.

"He made a horrible statement, tried to back off, but couldn't even bring himself to back off," Schumer said on the Senate floor. "It shows the weakness of President Trump that he is afraid to confront Mr. Putin directly."

The political firestorm over Trump's performance in Helsinki has engulfed the administration and spread to his fellow Republicans, eclipsing most of the frequent controversies that have erupted during Trump's turbulent 18 months in office.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell told reporters that Russia was not a friend of the United States and warned against a repeat of election meddling in November's congressional elections.

"There are a lot of us who fully understand what happened in 2016 and it really better not happen again in 2018," McConnell said.

TOUGHER SANCTIONS

Some lawmakers said they would seek remedies against Russia in Congress.

Several senators from both parties backed tougher sanctions on Russia. McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan, who called Russia's government "menacing," said their chambers could consider additional sanctions on Russia.

Congress overwhelmingly passed a sanctions law last year targeting Moscow for election meddling. In April, the U.S. Treasury imposed sanctions on Russian officials and oligarchs in one of Washington's most aggressive moves to punish Moscow.

Even before the allegations of Russian meddling, tensions were high over Moscow's concerns about NATO expansion, Russian annexation of the Crimea peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 and its military backing of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in the Syrian civil war.

Some U.S. lawmakers have suggested passing resolutions voicing support for intelligence agencies, or spending more to enhance election security and prevent cyber attacks.

Republican Senator Bob Corker, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said congressional leaders were searching for the most effective response.

"We’re trying to figure out what would be an appropriate way to push back," Corker told reporters. "You know the president can do more damage in 15 minutes at a press conference than we can undo in six months of passing resolutions."

Corker said "the first step" will be hearing from U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who will testify next Wednesday before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Senate Democrats said they want the American interpreter at the Helsinki meeting to testify to Congress on what was said during the private Trump-Putin session.

Trump's was a lame excuse, of course, which is a sign of how much pressure they are putting on him to backtrack on that 'being nice to Russia' business. That's too bad. But what worries me more now is that they are somehow twisting what was gained in the summit to use it to demand MORE sanctions and MORE confrontation against Russia! It's total madness! Notice McConnell's remark about the November election: "It better not happen again!" You can bet they will make it happen in the minds of the public. And to go as far as to ask the interpreter to testify? WTH??

 

[Neil]

Trump's was a lame excuse, of course, which is a sign of how much pressure they are putting on him to backtrack on that 'being nice to Russia' business. That's too bad. But what worries me more now is that they are somehow twisting what was gained in the summit to use it to demand MORE sanctions and MORE confrontation against Russia! It's total madness! Notice McConnell's remark about the November election: "It better not happen again!" You can bet they will make it happen in the minds of the public. And to go as far as to ask the interpreter to trestify? WTH??

Yeah, Trump's constant political flip-flopping and "I said this, but really meant that," sycophantic pandering is really infuriating, but given the pressure he is under, I understand why he does it. I don't think it really changes a whole lot, the purpose of the summit was to send a strong message to Putin that Trump wants reconciliation, but is being held hostage on a long black train to hell, and he doesn't have the controls. I agree that the deep state will now want some kind of "blood sacrifice" to reassure themselves that the empire is still on the "right track."

I'm wondering, if I'm detecting "a Political maneuver" on Putin's part, in suggesting - Mueller could send "an official request" to the Russian prosecutor's office - in regards to Mueller's indictment of 12 Russian Intelligence Officers ... opening up a legal loophole, by which, the Russian Attorney General can also send "an official request" to the US - to question a number of US officials and intelligence agents (connected to the Browder Case)? Apparently, Browder was involved in transferring $400,000 from Russia - to the US Democratic Party - (that C.a, Posted a twitter on earlier.)

Yes, I think it was carefully calculated. The Browder thing seems like it could turn into another Hillary email scandal and benefit Trump's reelection chances if he looks into it. Mueller's latest indictment smells of desperation and Putin knows he has built his house on a foundation of sand. I think he's hoping that he can give Trump enough of a boost so that he can win a war of attrition with Mueller et al as their credibility erodes out from underneath them and they finally collapse. He knows Mueller won't cooperate, which makes the investigation look even more hypocritical. I'm still not very optimistic, all of these "patriots" going on about restoring the republic are wasting their time; the deep state is pretty much running the show, and always will be until they are physically removed, perhaps violently. Still it was nice to see some glimmers of soul out of Trump. His comment about taking a political risk in order to save the world had a different flavor than the platitudes you hear out of most politicians. He seems to be sincere, but with his political vacillating, you can never be sure, which is something he uses to his advantage.

 

[Yas]

I find this pretty interesting because it suggests that most Americans don't give a hoot about the "situation with Russia" and all of this hysteria that we're seeing in the media and on sites like Facebook, Twitter and Reddit might be coming from a very small and very vocal minority.

I think that's usually the case. And I also think, as others have said before, that much of what becomes a trending topic on Twitter (such as ImpeachTrump and TreasonSummit) is bot activity or paid promotion. I've seen many tweets yesterday that were just the hashtags repeated several times without any other content, for example.

The problem is that this noisy minority and the big media can have an effect in shaping people's opinion about issues, even if they wouldn't consider it very important when compared to other issues that affect them more directly. They also can have a great impact in asking for the policies that will affect the people afterwards. Another problem is that the people in the government go on with their policies anyway (see the post above by WK where we see that they want to get tougher on anti-Russian policies), and the fact that people don't care much about this issues is kind of an advantage to them.

The way I see it, all the propaganda and noise by that minority serves the purpose or imprinting a particular view deep in their minds by repetition and scandals (which trigger people), even if they just go on with their lives and their daily issues without stopping to think about what they see in the news/social media. Meanwhile, the hawks in government just go on with their policies no matter what... then, when some people suddenly stop to check something that called their attention, everything is so saturated by propaganda, including their minds, that it's very hard for them to dig into an issue and try to figure it out, especially when there are so many other things to rightly worry about, such as jobs, wages, health care, etc... So it's easier to just take in whatever you see and I bet that what is mostly seen is what is spread by the media... And even if some people still have some common sense (which I think is the case), many don't want to bother with these issues because they just want to live their lives, have fun, etc... they might not believe in the propaganda completely but they won't do anything about it either, unless something affects them more directly.

 

[Cosmos]

Tucker Carlson nails it once again:

 

[angelburst29]

You have probably seen this by now:
Trump's was a lame excuse, of course, which is a sign of how much pressure they are putting on him to backtrack on that 'being nice to Russia' business. That's too bad. But what worries me more now is that they are somehow twisting what was gained in the summit to use it to demand MORE sanctions and MORE confrontation against Russia! It's total madness! Notice McConnell's remark about the November election: "It better not happen again!" You can bet they will make it happen in the minds of the public. And to go as far as to ask the interpreter to testify? WTH??

It was stated and widely reported in the media, that Trump wanted "a one-on-one" with Putin, before their second scheduled meeting was held with their attending Staff. Reports stated, only an accompanied Interpreter would be present during the Putin - Trump meeting.

Personally, I don't think it went down that way?

My impression is that Trump and Putin were escorted, along with their personal Interpreters - to a secure location ... and then their Interpreters were ushered out through another door ... to a waiting room with other security personnel?

A small detail comes to mind ... both Putin and Trump ... are multi-lingual ... and "both are fluent in German"!

Putin spent a number of years in Germany as a Soviet Intelligence Officer and Trump was born into a family where German was their first language and English was secondary. There are a few short video clips on the Internet of Trump speaking fluent German.

I think, "the joke" is on those ... who go with the notion that Putin only understands "a little English" and only versed in a few words and that Trump doesn't speak any Russian, so they needed interpreters to communicate?

As for McConnell, Schumer and the rest of the DC-Clowns demanding "the American translator" be interrogated ... have any of them ever heard of "a non-disclosure agreement (NDA), also known as a confidentiality agreement (CA)" that's standard procedure for any licensed and accredited Interpreter? (Oh, too funny!)


18.07.2018 - US Senate Democrats Demand Probe of Putin-Trump Summit
US Senate Democrats Demand Probe of Putin-Trump Summit

Democratic leaders are demanding an open hearing in which Trump administration officials, including the American translator, would explain what transpired in Monday's meeting between President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

"This is too important not to get the full story out before the Senate and the American people," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said at a press conference on Tuesday while flanked by senior Democratic lawmakers.

In addition, Schumer demanded that the administration turn over to Congress all contemporaneous notes from the summit.

Trump’s first official summit with Putin featured a two hour long one-on-one meeting, followed up by an expanded bilateral meeting in Helsinki, Finland.

The two leaders positively assessed the results of the summit, where they discussed the most pressing international issues as well as Russia's alleged meddling in the 2016 US election. Trump said after the meeting Washington was to blame for the poor state of bilateral relations, and cast doubt on the US intelligence community's conclusion on the interference in the US vote.

Schumer and other Senators said the investigation should feature testimony from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats, US Ambassador to Russia Jon Huntsman and the American translator in the one-on-one meeting between Trump and Putin.

Senator Bob Menendez called Monday a "day of infamy" for the United States, borrowing a phrase used by President Franklin Roosevelt to describe the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

"He violated his oath of office to protect and defend the constitution of the United States," Menendez added.

Senator Ben Cardin called for immediate action to protect the United States from alleged Russian aggression.

"We need to use the independence of Congress to protect the national security of America, particularly in light of what President Trump has done with Mr. Putin," Cardin said.

Senator Jeanne Shaheen called on the Foreign Relations Committee to hold a hearing with the American translator who was present during the private, two-hour meeting between Trump and Putin to determine what was discussed and what Trump agreed to on behalf of the United States.

 

[aragorn]

Trump didn't look too comfortable giving that back peddling statement. His body language and way of talking gave the impression of him not feeling as self confident as he usually is. Then there was this weird moment of the lights going off...maybe just a glitch, or a warning?

Looks like the more sane republicans (Jordan, Gowdy etc.) with Trump have chosen (or are being forced to) to not deny the Russian meddling - completely denying that would be too much for the public. It remains to be seen if this strategy will succeed. Looking with a magnifying glass, some sort of 'Russian meddling' did of course take place in the form of a few FB posts and tweets. But applying just a tiny bit of common sense, this is in no way that sort of meddling what the usual suspects are presenting it to be.