Tucker Carlson interviews & ideologies

I noted also how Tucker was trying Putin to comment on the existence of the secret government and also at some point Tucker asked if he though there was something human factor behind in the interminable cycle of decision making driving the USA. I can’t remember the time stamp of this, I think Tucker has an idea now about some hyperdimensional intervention on some things on the planet and in a veeeery subtle way tried Putin to comment or see if he has an opinion about it.
Tucker tried to get Putin to 'spill the beans' several times and each time he failed. I've been wondering what intention was behind that desire because it seems obvious that Putin's validation of this or that was not going to bring Tucker and whatever claims more credentials in the eyes of Western audience; so why? A few possibilities come to mind though none has a sound base, so I'll just leave it dangling. But isn't it strange in itself, to ask a foreign president to tell you who is pulling the strings in your country? Putin told him a few times: ask your officials, it would be easier for you, you are a citizen of the United States, but it was clear to both that it would be futile. Nevertheless, some time later, Tucker questioned Putin on his attempts to talk to the the same officials on his readiness for talks and ending the war. I'm pretty sure that inconsistency escaped him.

Yes, I was annoyed when Tucker asked for the third time, (paraphrasing) "Why don't you just call Biden up directly to resolve the war"? I suppose this could have been strategy on Tucker's part to make clear what is in the quote box above.
Maybe it was one of his missions as he saw them, but because of the intensity of the whole interview, and its going "off the script" so to say, he forgot what was already agreed upon, untold.

I wonder if Tucker is projecting where he claims that Putin is wounded over NATO's rejection of Russia. He tries to attribute emotional reasoning behind Putins actions a number of times in the interview along the lines of 'I see how you are/that could make you angry/resentful/bitter.'
I think he was projecting his ingrained American exceptionalism: everyone out there should be in despair when rejected by Murica. You just become no one, deplorable, you barely have the right to exist... how can you be not devastated?

Carlson may have been projecting (at least partly) his own frustrations at that point towards Putin for not answering his questions concisely.
Projecting power? ;-) He spelled it out in his 'after the interview' video: "I was annoyed. And I thought, look, I am American, so I asked you a specific question and I want a specific answer. Stop!" To me, it sounds like it's more than frustration. I can hear typical arrogance. In this aspect, his profession and specific style might have gotten in the way and prevent him from having even better conversation with Putin. Oliver Stone, for example, didn't have that problem.


I think Putin was walking circles around Tucker in this interview. I commend him for doing the interview, but he still acted like a TV journalist at times by completely missing the point and putting words into Putin’s mouth (like when he said Putin was bitter). It shows that even the ‘best’ interviewer in the USA still seemed juvenile for the seriousness of the situation being discussed. After all, Putin did say very early on: are we being serious or not?

Maybe I can give Tucker the benefit of the doubt after too many years of interviewing American politicians that are experts in not answering questions, but he seemed unprepared for the talk.
He may be the 'best' journalist, but as a journalist, American journalist, he lacks humility. He's placed himself on the same level with Putin. Again, something that Oliver Stone wasn't lacking. But I agree with giving him the benefit of the doubt and hope he'll learn from this encounter with the unknown and, to a big extent, unintelligible. It was him after all, who said that "it's probably gonna take me a year to really decide what it was." I think, he has a big chance to succeed, he is smart.
 
Projecting power? ;-) He spelled it out in his 'after the interview' video: "I was annoyed. And I thought, look, I am American, so I asked you a specific question and I want a specific answer. Stop!" To me, it sounds like it's more than frustration. I can hear typical arrogance. In this aspect, his profession and specific style might have gotten in the way and prevent him from having even better conversation with Putin. Oliver Stone, for example, didn't have that problem.

This may be a premature assessment, but I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen Tucker in a situation where the person he was interviewing exercised complete dominion over the course and content of the interview. As you said above, his ingrained American exceptionalism prevented him from processing, and much less appreciating exactly what Putin was saying to him. Tucker, in his mind, still had an image to uphold for his audience while also not coming off as a shill for Putin. And in turn, we witnessed Tucker get outclassed—and by an order of magnitude.

But I do believe Tucker will learn from this. As will many others.
 
I agree that Tucker’s expression was one of respectful attention to every word Putin was saying. But what really struck me, aside from the excellent history lesson, was the expression of the Russian soul. That is the core of the difference between the Russian heart and the Western mind. If anything should resonate with people anywhere, it is that. And with that he gained the respect of many of the hearts that are taught to equate his name with evil. Or at least gave them pause.
At the end of the interview Putin spoke about the soul again and I felt that Tucker, when he said thank you for the interview, something in his voice, I felt that Tucker was moved. Maybe it's my imagination, maybe I'm projecting.

When you read Russian novels or watch Russian films, the soul is always present. It's very moving, it touches the heart, it's incredible. The Russian soul is present everywhere, and also in these Russian politicians.
 
Tucker's interview with Putin reminds me of Negus' interview with Gaddafi. However, Gaddafi was more direct and gave more concise answers, but remained as calm and factual as Putin. On the other hand, in my opinion, Negus—the typical mainstream journalist with an agenda—was borderline disrespectful, pretentious, and pretty much laughing in Gaddafi's face throughout the interview as he tried to 'corner the villain.' Tucker visibly had more respect for Putin.

Muammar Gaddafi Interviewed Just Before Libyan Revolution

Key Moments
NEGUS: So what about the people who see you as a dictator? Is that a word that you will not tolerate?
GADDAFI: Of course not. Whoever says that is ignorant and stupid.
NEGUS: So it wouldn’t really upset you if they said "We don’t like the Gaddafi system"?
GADDAFI: For 40 years I have not been the ruler, the authority has been with the people. They take nothing from me or add anything to me.
NEGUS: Do you have the final say? Was it you, for instance, that decided to get rid of the weapons of mass destruction?
GADDAFI: Of course, I have a moral influence, I am the leader of the revolution and the revolution was the making of the people.
NEGUS: Could you work with the man [Obama]?
GADDAFI: Of course.
NEGUS: [About the Taliban] So they're not terrorists? In your eyes, they're not terrorists?
GADDAFI: No, no. You know that the followers of bin Laden and Al-Qaida are Arabs not Afghans. The Taliban are Afghans – they want to rule their country in a religious manner, they are free to do that – look at the Vatican – same thing! What is the danger in that? They do not have the capability to invade America or Europe. What linked the Taliban, or what linked Afghanistan to Al- Qaida are the West and the Americans. The relationship was created by the Americans and by Muslim countries allied to America.
NEGUS: The reality is that it's not going to be as easy as you make it sound - to get the Israelis and Palestinians to stop killing each other the way they are.
GADDAFI: If they wanted to end the violence and war between them and if they wanted Jews and Palestinians to live in peace… Jews and Palestinians… then they should consider this solution. One democratic state, free from weapons of mass destruction, and with the return of the Palestinian refugees.
NEGUS: What do you think people will want to see on Muammar Gaddafi's tombstone. Gaddafi an angel or Gaddafi a villain?
INTERPRETER (unsettled, asks the question in a different manner to Gaddafi, and interprets his response): That I worked for the others. To give service for the others, nothing for myself.
NEGUS: For a man who was regarded by many people in the West as a fearsome person and a danger to peace and democracy, how do you describe yourself to people who say that? Were we wrong about you?
GADDAFI: I forgive them, they were ignorant.

Full Transcript [EN]
GEORGE NEGUS: Sir, thank you very much for giving us this interview. You're a very busy man. Could you help me - what is the correct way for me to address you? Should I call you Leader or Brother Leader? What is the most appropriate title?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): As you like, as you like. You are free….

GEORGE NEGUS: When I told people that I was going to be able to interview you, they were intrigued. They are fascinated by yourself because you appear to have changed recently from the sort of person they were used to reading about and seeing on television, to a different kind of Muammar Gaddafi. Why do we think that you have changed?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): It is the world that has changed.

GEORGE NEGUS: But is there anything in particular that prompted you to go from the person who was, at one point, regarded as a dangerous person?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Of course, I was .. I am a leader of a revolution with global ideas. And I have actively contributed to liberation movements and colonial countries did not want that of course. That is why they portrayed me in this image. My principles have not changed.

GEORGE NEGUS: So when many people throughout the Western world, in particular, regarded you as a sponsor of terrorism, is that no longer the case?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): The West sees liberation movements as terrorist movements and that is why I am accused of supporting terrorism, because I support liberation movements.

GEORGE NEGUS: What about al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden because you have spoken out very firmly against Osama bin Laden? In fact, you were the first leader to call for his arrest.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): They are a terrorist group and we totally disagree with them.

GEORGE NEGUS: What’s the difference between a terrorist group and a liberation movement, in your eyes?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): A freedom fighter has a land that is occupied and he wants to liberate it, but a terrorist is someone who wants to kill people. And sometimes he doesn’t even have a program, a plan.

GEORGE NEGUS: So what about al-Qaeda?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): I think the method these people are using is … a storm in a teacup. They don’t have any justification for existence.

GEORGE NEGUS: So was September 11 a storm in a teacup?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Well of course, it is one of the terrorist acts.

GEORGE NEGUS: Do you have any idea what should be done to combat terrorist groups like al-Qaeda?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): We should respond to them using the same arguments they use. They accuse America of violating the Muslim world, dominating it, interfering in it’s affairs and subjugating it. And that it supports the slaughter of Palestinians, displacing them and stopping them from returning home. And support of their argument increased after what happened in Iraq and…and in Gaza.

GEORGE NEGUS: Can we go back to whether or not you have changed because the impression the world has is that you have softened, you are more capable of living peacefully with the rest of the Western world for instance.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): I was a hardliner with regard to colonialism which had occupied Africa and large parts of the world. We were waging an armed struggle… and therefore one had to be strong. But now no one asks for weapons but for economic aid, which changes your position.

GEORGE NEGUS: Some of the reasons people think you have softened your position and you are no longer as dangerous as people used to say you were is because you have said you have no nuclear program, no weapons of mass destruction and that you believe that people like bin Laden are not the right kind of people to represent Islam.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): As to the nuclear program, it underwent a serious review by us, we built it after the revolution and the world has changed since.

GEORGE NEGUS: You did have a weapons of mass destruction program?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Of course there was. But we reviewed it, many states were showing off then about going in that direction.

GEORGE NEGUS: So you’re no longer fashionable?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Now there is no justification.

GEORGE NEGUS: Some cynical commentators have said that one of the reasons you got rid of your weapons of mass destruction program is because you feared the same fate as Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): No, we started to deal with abandoning this program and negotiating with superpowers before the Iraq War.

GEORGE NEGUS: Could we talk about Lockerbie because in the Western world if the word 'Lockerbie' is mentioned, the name Gaddafi is mentioned. When you hear the word 'Lockerbie', what do you think?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): The truth is nobody accepts actions against civilian targets and downing civilian planes. I don’t think a country can be responsible for or decide on such an action.

GEORGE NEGUS: So you could look the world in the face and say quite honestly that you did not order the Lockerbie attack?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Of course. No country would do such a thing.

GEORGE NEGUS: Do you think that the man accused actually was responsible for that bombing of that plane that killed 270 people? He was a Libyan intelligence officer.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): He is not an intelligence officer. He is a university professor. Had the appeal continued at the European Court he would have been acquitted.

GEORGE NEGUS: Do you think he was guilty?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): I don’t think so. Even the International court of Justice said that it was a political trial.

GEORGE NEGUS: So how do you feel that Libya and yourself in particular have been linked to that disaster?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Like I said at the time, they would blame everything on Libya as it was leading the liberation movement. Even now, terrorist acts might be carried out by terrorists who aren’t linked to bin Laden but they are immediately attributed to him.

GEORGE NEGUS: If Lockerbie had nothing to do with you and Libya, why did you offer so much money in compensation to the families, the victims, the families of the victims?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): This is a peaceful settlement to resolve the problems between us.

GEORGE NEGUS: But why did you do it, if Libya wasn’t involved and you weren't the person who ordered that bombing?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): We, at the end, accepted the judgement that was made, even though it was not a legal judgement but a political one.

GEORGE NEGUS: So what do you say, as a man, as a human being and as a father and later you suffered, your own family suffered when the retaliatory attacks occurred in Libya over that other bombing? What do you say to the families of the people who think that you were responsible?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): I have expressed myself about this numerous times. It is a tragedy – it was hideous. Who would support such an act? It’s not possible. Only someone who is mad or a terrorist – it is a real tragedy.

GEORGE NEGUS: Tell me about IsraTine - we talked about your plan for Israel and Palestine.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): it is just my proposal to join two halves of two words.

GEORGE NEGUS: The reality is that it's not going to be as easy as you make it sound - to get the Israelis and Palestinians to stop killing each other the way they are.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): If they wanted to end the violence and war between them and if they wanted Jews and Palestinians to live in peace… Jews and Palestinians… then they should consider this solution. One democratic state, free from weapons of mass destruction, and with the return of the Palestinian refugees.

GEORGE NEGUS: And you seriously believe it would work - in your lifetime?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): If God guides them, then this is the solution.

GEORGE NEGUS: I guess I’m wondering how the Jews could see a light from Allah. There is a religious problem too isn’t there? A religious difficulty!

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): What is the religious difficulty?

GEORGE NEGUS: That the Jews probably don’t believe in Allah.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): What would hinder this solution? This solution is not linked to religion – it is linked to reality. Four million displaced Palestinians must return, and the land will be for all of them, Palestinians and Israelis. What is the difference between what was said about throwing Jews into the sea and throwing Palestinians into the desert? It is the same thing.

GEORGE NEGUS: I guess what I’m saying is if it was a simple matter of getting these people to think more sensibly about it, why hasn’t it happened before?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): The old generation… the old guard are reactionaries and bigots, but I think the new generation would accept this solution.

GEORGE NEGUS: So it’s up to the young people to overcome the stupidity of the old people? Accepting yourself, of course. Could you tell me how you feel at the moment as we’re speaking, the Americans and the coalition forces in Afghanistan have mounted a major military offensive. What would you do about this? Do you see the Taliban, for instance, as freedom fighters or terrorists?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): The Taliban are not a threat and should not have been fought – they could have left the Taliban there and it would have been good.

GEORGE NEGUS: For the Taliban to be the government?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Yes, because the Taliban are not Al-Qaida – the Taliban are not bin Laden.

GEORGE NEGUS: So they're not terrorists? In your eyes, they're not terrorists?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): No, no. You know that the followers of bin Laden and Al-Qaida are Arabs not Afghans. The Taliban are Afghans – they want to rule their country in a religious manner, they are free to do that – look at the Vatican – same thing! What is the danger in that? They do not have the capability to invade America or Europe. What linked the Taliban, or what linked Afghanistan to Al- Qaida are the West and the Americans. The relationship was created by the Americans and by Muslim countries allied to America.

GEORGE NEGUS: Do you still believe America is a dangerous nation where world peace is concerned and do you feel any better about America since Obama has been elected as president?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Of course, Obama without a doubt is an exceptional case, but America is America. Obama’s term is for a maximum of eight years.

GEORGE NEGUS: Do you think he should stay forever?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): I wish, yes.

GEORGE NEGUS: Why do you think he’s an exception?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): His approach, his cultural influence and his race – being a black American.

GEORGE NEGUS: So, you think his Kenyan descent is important?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Of course, he has even Arab and Islamic roots, and thus his mentality is different to that of the Yankees.

GEORGE NEGUS: A lot of Yankees and a lot of Americans generally would be very upset to be reminded that he has Islamic roots.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Why are they concerned? You see, they are racist.

GEORGE NEGUS: Could you work with the man?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Of course.

GEORGE NEGUS: Could you imagine him coming to your country?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Not necessary, but it would be good. I am not asking him to come but if it happens, it would be good.

GEORGE NEGUS: Could I ask you about democracy because you use the word but to people in the West, Libya is not democratic. They see you as an autocrat, almost an absolute monarch. I mean how can you convince people in the West that your idea of democracy, which is very different from theirs, is still democracy? No political parties, no opposition.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Of course parties rule there while there are people to rule, the solution is for them is to come over and see Libya.

GEORGE NEGUS: Do you have the final say? Was it you, for instance, that decided to get rid of the weapons of mass destruction?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Of course, I have a moral influence, I am the leader of the revolution and the revolution was the making of the people.

GEORGE NEGUS: So what about the people who see you as a dictator? Is that a word that you will not tolerate?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Of course not. Whoever says that is ignorant and stupid.

GEORGE NEGUS: So, you think you know better than anybody how the people think, and what the people want?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): Not at all. The people are the authority and have the authority and what is being said is not being said by the people. If someone says that, then he wants to rule the people.

GEORGE NEGUS: Will there be a Gaddafi dynasty? You have sons. Is it automatic that one of your sons will succeed you? You have said when you go, whether you stop being the leader or, unfortunately, you pass on, that the people will all be president.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): The authority is with the people, in the end. Authority lies with the Libyan people who rule and so all other options are out.

GEORGE NEGUS: How do you find out what the people want?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): The people say now they are exercising authority. Other options might be proposed but they are alternatives to the people’s authority. The people are free.

GEORGE NEGUS: So it wouldn’t really upset you if they said "We don’t like the Gaddafi system"?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): For 40 years I have not been the ruler, the authority has been with the people. They take nothing from me or add anything to me.

GEORGE NEGUS: Interestingly enough, I'm exactly the same age as you, and in 1969, when you had your bloodless coup, I started in journalism. It is a strange coincidence. I also had a Volkswagen car like your Beetle. But, we say in the West that people should have certain things on their tombstone - certain words on their tombstone. What do you think people will want to see on Muammar Gaddafi's tombstone. Gaddafi an angel or Gaddafi a villain?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): No, I heard a different question.

INTERPRETER: No, I mean, sir ….. How do I say it, I mean, in hundreds of years, what do you want written about you?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): He used other words.

INTERPRETER: Sir, I don’t want to say them.

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): No, well, I … what is to be said about me… that I worked for others. I did not do anything for myself.

INTERPRETER: That I worked for the others. To give service for the others, nothing for myself.

GEORGE NEGUS: "Gaddafi the servant"? Can I finish on this note? One last question. For a man who was regarded by many people in the West as a fearsome person and a danger to peace and democracy, how do you describe yourself to people who say that? Were we wrong about you?

COLONEL MUAMMAR GADDAFI (Translation): I forgive them, they were ignorant

GEORGE NEGUS: Thank you, that's very generous. Thank you very much.

Well, even a day later, it still feels like one of the strangest interviews I've ever conducted - a much-mellowed Muammar Gaddafi in from the cold. And, no matter how the guy sees himself, you'd definitely never describe him as a glaring example of democracy. He still hasn't reached that point yet. And, as for a post-Gaddafi Libya, well, this country and, for that matter, the entire world, won't be the same without him. He's a very curious man. And no sight whatsoever of even one of those reportedly 40 female virgin bodyguards. Well, maybe they're just a Libyan urban myth.
Source: Gaddafi Interview | Journeyman Pictures
 
I watched the interview a few moment after it was posted, but was too tired to post then.
My main thought was : Putin the teacher. Now, after having read all the comments posted here so far, i would say "The student making an interview of the teacher", student who, despite his experience and notwithstanding his popularity, still have some lessons to learn in journalism in general, lesson that would help him to adapt to any kind of interviewee. We can't blame him, he comes from a country where the show and narrative has more importance than the truth, and truth requires details (and explanations) when lies have been sown - he's not used to, and some here already pointed this out. Same apply to any US watcher, and from more to more in EU, i mean, the fact this it was a lesson, a course, given by Putin the teacher.

My second thought was that, as also already spotted here in the comments, that not all westerners (i mean citizen/people who will watch the interview) will be able to watch it to the end, some have probably already clicked the link, checked the lenght of the interview, then close the broswer's TAB. That's the sad part and it's directly linked to the "idiocratisation" of the populations performed these last 30+ years. It also echoes with what some already noticed here : a Tucker who comes from a world where journalists want fast-pace interviews, quick questions & quick answers, do it fast, no need for details that could bother people who can't think, the show must go on. We can see that Tucker takes on him, he constantly have the feet ready to press the accelerator pedal and doing it a couple of time, but Putin uses the brake one and teach a lesson to Tucker, something like "look at the paysages, the details & facts, the history, these are important to well understand a subject".

Some quotes saved during the lecture :

I'm not sure about Americans understanding NATO and eastern expansion breaking promises, Maidan coup, neonazis and Bandera, Nordstream, Minsk and Istanbul agreements.
I wonder, among the ones who watched the interview (fully), what % did not understand what was said ?

Also, what i'm thinking about now is : suppose that this interview has to be watched at school, starting at 15y old up to universities. What % of these youths, the (full-force) smartphone/tik-tok/FBook/... population, would be in measure to follow & understand it ? I can't help (again) to think about the movie Idiocracy. I sometimes watched some old french street interviews of the population during the 60 & 70ies, french ones (INA archive documents). I can imagine such people being able to follow such interview, willing to, because quite more would know & understand the importance of the global worldwide situation, they would simply understand the importance of this interview, its usefulness. Now i'm thinking about a couple of youths of my entourage (and yes, many adults too) ... i mean, they are hopeless, except a few ones, the PTB, or 4D STS, well did their job, they have a 90% of young population ready for dinner, they won't try to escape, half boiled already, easy preys ! But ...ok ... that's another topic.

Is that a correct conclusion to draw from what Putin said?
About what Tucker thinks while saying that he thinks Putin is wounded by being rejected.

No it's not a good conclusion, Putin was clear about, but projection was stronger on Tucker's side.

Neverthless, thinking twice about this, it's possible that Putin felt it, and i explain why : Suppose that you are the manager & representative of a football team, a team you lead and train during 20+ years, a team you love and which love you, you saw improvements, you know they became very good, they are "your boys" and you are proud of them, you are proud of your team. And you ask if your team can join the league in order to compete with other teams, to share and get more experience, to enrich any player's life too (STO thinking). but that you are responded "no". In that sense Putin may (maybe) have felt wounded, not for him, but for his guys, because after all, it's not only him who is rejected, it's all the russians, and being a normal personn with his emotions this would be ... normal that he feels at least sad about, not for him personaly, but his people. But if this happened, it's already a couple of months or a few years ago, when he concluded that there is nothing to expect from the psychopaths ruling the western mafia.

On the other side of this small "football" story, with all the "efforts" our leaders are doing (by "painting" us badly, by showing "our decadent values") + all the hate they constantly show toward russia, the wish to join this rotten league is fading away. What i hope is that the average russian understand that we are a population whose liberty was taken away by a big globalist mafia and that this mafia has unlimited money and they know the right things to do to brainstorm and fool people's perceptions (ie: their populations). This does not fully excuses the people, but at least help to understand why we are in this situation. The more you know on someone, the more your empathy have grips it can hold onto and play its role.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the Chinese government is great or impeccable. Just that if you want to understand it, it's best if you first pay attention to those who threaten it. Maybe that is one of the reasons why China and Russia get along? Both are "giants" geographically speaking, and have focused on national unity and defending from outside threats. Some may see that as repression, others as the best they can do in such vast territories to prevent Western powers from interfering.

think that is a very good point. The more pressure and interference from outside, the more a country will have to actively defend itself and its interests and this will lead to more socalled repressive measures to protect itself. Such measures will of course then be used by outside forces interested in interfering, to point the finger and say "Look how repressive they are and how free we are".
This is a topic i had in mind since a certain time. The idea that one of the reasons (and maybe the main reason) the Chinese government decided to put in place such restrictive and also "big brother is watching you" like measures is at first to protect from, literrally, the western social corruption. When the covid started in China, i remember the long explanation the C's gave in the session of 21/3/2020 :

A: The virus did not appear first in China. There were experiments at Fort Detrick regarding the creation of a vaccine that would make humans more controllable. This vaccine had unexpected effects and in some cases did the opposite of what was intended. The strain escaped into a population and further mutated. Indeed it was carried to China by US soldiers. China soon knew the type and origin and launched a massive campaign to control the situation. This was seen by Western powers as a good model to follow with additional add-on factors. In the meantime further mutations have occurred, some engineered via STO forces by virtue of the virus taking hold in certain persons whose spiritual force was able to direct the progression. At this point, there are two major strains. The elite need to stop the spread of that which they "created".
... launching a massive campaign well illustrate the level of ... fear the Chinese government has in regard to the US.
Implementing massive population controls, in this case on the more diffuse danger of societal infection, resonates with their reaction to the first cases of covid recorded in China. This makes me think about the Wetiko virus, but not just that, the simply decadence of the occident, at all levels (that i won't list here), that they need to avoid at all cost any "infection" in their society.

The Chinese mentality or we could even say race is the one (or one of the ones) in the world which have the most similarities (not the right term but all will understand) acting as a beehive or an anthill, it's like if this was bound into their genes. This may explain why they seem to well accept the actual measures, there would be quite more to say and discuss about, but i would dare to say that it probably plays a important role. With such a huge population, it's easy to find some who do want their freedom and do not accept to play their "ant" role (if i can say like this), such people could quickly gather, unite, start to provoke troubles, supported by western $$$ who would quickly finance them. How to prevent such "social infection hotbed" then ? What would one decide if he was Xi Jinping ?
 
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I think Putin was walking circles around Tucker in this interview. I commend him for doing the interview, but he still acted like a TV journalist at times by completely missing the point and putting words into Putin’s mouth (like when he said Putin was bitter). It shows that even the ‘best’ interviewer in the USA still seemed juvenile for the seriousness of the situation being discussed. After all, Putin did say very early on: are we being serious or not?

I agree, and I think Putin was absolutely brilliant in the way he answered Tucker's questions. There is one thing though that I was wondering why Putin would have mentioned it at all, and that is that he reminded Tucker that even he (Tucker) had applied to work for the CIA in the not so distant past. Then there was Putin jokingly accusing Tucker of blowing up Nord Stream (correct me if I am wrong about this, but I think that's what Putin was saying) and then saying that it was the CIA that was responsible, in an indirect sort of way. And then there was the "China question" where Putin just brushed it off as a "boogie man" thing.

I watched this 25 minute Geopolitical Economy Report video this morning and I think it's worth watching. It's about Tucker Carlson's views on China, that China is America's greatest enemy, not Russia, and that it would be better if the US and Russia combined forces to war with China. It's an interesting take on Tucker Carlson, IMO. Makes me wonder, does Putin know exactly who Tucker Carlson really is? I may be out in left field here, but thought it might still be worth bringing up. Then again, maybe Tucker has changed his views about China...


Of course Carlson did not understand Putin. Carlson does not even understand the 2020 election was stolen from Trump.

Carlson may not have understood Putin, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't understand that the 2020 election was stolen...
 
He put the blame, so to speak, on real people doing real things.
Sensible if we start blaming supernatural elements for what’s going on in this world we deny our power to intervene with human efforts of knowledge and awareness. The battle is within us the change must come from human efforts to free ourselves.
If this interview brought home something in full force, it's that the west consists of irrational, silly and frankly moronic children. We are just so used to it that even the best of us, like Tucker, can fall for these ways of thinking. "Why this man so complicated talk! He hurt cause we mean to him!" The whole interview is the perfect mirror for a mentally ill civilization.
I agree completely. Just listened to Ben Shapiro analysis of the interview—he sounds like a three year old. And he is seen by the conservative populace as being at at sharp end of the stick.
Are people of the western world getting stupider or is the forum getting smarter?
 
See imathatis' links on this. In order to understand Tibet, I think you need the historical context.

As it so happens, I also was in Tibet, and lived in China for one year. I came away with a complete different view from yours. The locals were not hostile towards the Han, and they were perfectly bilingual, and able to preserve their culture. That is not something that happens everywhere, where ethnic minorities are just "disappeared", their languages banned, etc. At first I thought "this is horrible, internet censure", etc. But the more I understood the culture and their background, the more it made sense. Is it ideal? No. But I definitely don't think that what the West says about it is accurate, FWIW.




But the Chinese government is straightforward about its goals quite often, and it is more honest to its people, whether you like and understand their tactics or not. The West just lies and brainwashes people with paramoralisms, while selling them the BS that they live in a democracy. You can't apply Western standards to understand China, I think.



I met two members of the Falun Gong when in China. They were Westerners, and I could tell even without knowing much about them that it had nothing to do with the movement, but with having been told to hate and badmouth the Chinese government.

Again, see trails for funding and who may be behind it.

Same with the Uygur issue.

Does repression happen? No doubt! But again, look at the society from the inside, and at the outside threat that is always trying to meddle with other countries. It's not so easy to separate them.



Again, look at America's meddling there. These are the same "people".

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the Chinese government is great or impeccable. Just that if you want to understand it, it's best if you first pay attention to those who threaten it. Maybe that is one of the reasons why China and Russia get along? Both are "giants" geographically speaking, and have focused on national unity and defending from outside threats. Some may see that as repression, others as the best they can do in such vast territories to prevent Western powers from interfering.
Well you were in Tibet longer than I, so I defer to your judgement on the matter. I do wonder if it could be from a difference in time; I was there 17 years ago, and maybe you were there more recently so attitudes might have changed as they have flooded the region with Han Chinese after they built the train line that was relatively new when I was there. Or it could just very well be that I was exposed to some people that were biased, akin to Biden supporters in the US, particularly given I am self selecting from those who speak English. But what I do know is the square was constantly empty as I was told, and there were definitely problems with internet access. To me I just have issues with any form of broad censorship. That is like #1 pet peave for me when it comes for governments and the biggest gripe I have with China.

As to Falun Gong, "but with having been told to hate and badmouth the Chinese government". What is wrong with badmouthing the Chinese government? In most civilized societies in the last 50 years, at least prior to 2020, that was not a crime. According to the page you linked to the type of views they have are "While Li asserts that Falun Gong is a nonpolitical movement, he also makes broad arguments against the efficacy of modern governments and praises ancient Chinese society which, in the context of the People's Republic of China, makes Falun Gong a counter-revolutionary movement." Again, these are philosophical matters that should be open to debate. And then it was banned in 1999, and people tortured, so they then had even better reason to criticize the government. And that would indeed make them ripe for CIA influence - although I am not sure if there is evidence for that or just assumed because it would be perfectly logical.

When Gonzalo Lira was imprisoned and ultimately murdered for speaking out against the Ukrainian authorities, I assume most here are horrified. And I can almost guarantee you what he was saying was many times more inflammatory against the Ukranians that what was claimed about Falun Dafa. So for people to just excuse the Chinese persecution of these people because they criticize the Chinese government just is a little baffling to me. It is the type of behavior modern societies used to look down upon in the strongest terms. Freedom of speech is literally the most important right every person has, because without the ability to PUBLICLY call out corruption and bad policies, you cannot eliminate corruption and bad policies.

"But again, look at the society from the inside, and at the outside threat that is always trying to meddle with other countries. It's not so easy to separate them."

I totally get that! I assumed that is where the defense of China is coming from. The idea these people have to do whatever possible to protect themselves against Western influence because the US likes to make trouble. But there is a reason they have to resort to such drastic measures - their society is PARTICULARLY VULNERABLE to such undermining because the leaders there are probably scared to death of a revolt because it is such an authoritarian government. It is my perception that Russia does not nearly have to go to this extreme to keep the Western influence out (you can also argue they have not done as good a job). But overall Putin's government has broad popularity because he governs well and there is a reasonable amount of freedom there. The Chinese are good technocrats, but they are horrible on the civil liberty front (ironically except when it comes to businesses, in which my perception was they were much less regulated and restrained than in the US - the reason manufacturing moves there - the Chinese are born capitalists at heart). What they have going for them is things have improved MARKEDLY since Mao. People I perceived when I was there were in a state of learned helplessness combined with hope because they were getting more and more freedom at the time. They told me they expected to be free like Hong Kong when the merger was supposed to take place (that did not end as they expected in 2007...). But they are no where close to that yet. If you get CIA agents in there telling people what freedom actually is and looks like (i.e. being able to openly crticize the government like Falun Dafa), that sort of information in the hands of 1 billion people could lead to the Chinese concept of the "swarm" (explained to me by someone from China) could come into place and overwhelm the government by sheer numbers.

If they actually made their society less centralized and more free, they would not be nearly as vulnerable to such influence. The more authoritarian the greater the risk; thus these societies HAVE TO RESTRICT FREE SPEECH TO SURVIVE. That is not a good governmental model.

"Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the Chinese government is great or impeccable. Just that if you want to understand it, it's best if you first pay attention to those who threaten it."
Agreed there. And I perfectly understand those who threaten it. I believe one of the persons I was responding too called it a good blend of Marxist and Capitalism - and I had to take exception to that. I actually think Chinese internal political is a very bad model. Their foreign policy is exceptional and their leaders are very smart, but their system is excessively too top down (again exactly what the WEF wants), which will lead to some major issues in the future. They actually sort of lucked up on the one child policy for example in being a very corrupt state. I kept hearing people refer to their "brothers and sisters" in China and I asked "I thought you were not supposed to have them?" And they said, you just bribe the local official and it is fine!! Imagine where they would be if they had Chilean officials who follow even the dumbest regulations down to the letter :)

But I do not think that external threats are an excuse for violating the fundamental rights of your people or of foreign nations like Taiwan. I am of Kant's deontological framework - treat people as the ends and not a means to an end. You can never truly know the truly utilitarian consequences of your actions - life is too uncertain - you just have to do what is right upfront.

As an aside on the Putin view of China. I watched this interesting clip of Putin's interview from a body language expert I follow.
12 minutes in she specifically brings up the body language of Putin when he answered the China question - his gesture showed "Yes he worries about that." - the Chinese threatening the sovereignty of Russia. But near term - they have a common enemy and that is a risk further down the road. The US is the bigger threat now by far (to the entire world...).
 
For those who are interested, putin's mention of the "Russian soul" is related to literature, and related to the uniqueness of Russian national identity, with saving traits vis-à-vis Europe, at least in Dostoevsky. I found the reference very interesting, even in the context of the interview. He was probably not talking to Americans, but to Europe.
 
I wanted to add something, which may have been pointed out before, if so, I apologize for the noise.

But the fact that Putin prefers a long educating discussion, that is publicly available, not only shows his desire to educate people in the West, it also shows his attitude as the leader of his nation, to her people. He treats his people, this in his charge, as adults who can understand nuanced situations, who can understand long contexts, who are capable of seeing a situation broadly and deeply, and trusts them enough with difficult information about his decisions. He prefers an educated population, because knowledge protects, but also an educated population will make the best decision. Leading by power.

Contrast that with the West, where we get infantile narratives about the world, "bad man bad, so good man attack bad man, attack bad man good". And are constantly afraid of loosing their hold, so they have to keep their "kids" afraid of the outside world, and threaten them and hurt them. Leading by force.

I think Putin knows that he won't allow any intervention in his country, and I'm sure most of his people understand why that is, but I'm also sure Putin would accept the wise decision of an informed population if he's ever voted out of office. He trusts those under his care because he has worked to nurture them.

That might also explain Tucker's attitude in the interview, he comes from the world of simple narratives, tiny soundbite answers, and reductionist approaches to incredibly complex problems. Putin had no interest in offending, or perpetuating the myths Tucker arrived with and Tucker's audience hold, because that's not what an adult does when confronted with a complex issue.

Maybe, the goal Putin had was to leave Tucker and his audience with the following idea at least: "there's a lot more going on than you know." and that in the West is progress.
 
Carlson may not have understood Putin, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't understand that the 2020 election was stolen...
Get ready for a surprise.
Like us, they have not seen a single piece of evidence showing that software changed votes.
 

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