Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

Palinurus said:
As a side note, too curious to skip over: I discovered once more that history has a habit of repeating itself -- the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce, as Karl Marx put it in The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon. This year (May 6 2013) another Divo Giulio died in Italy aged 94: Giulio Andreotti -- a long serving Christian Democrat politician.

Sorry to go slightly off topic. Couldn't resist :rolleyes:

You're welcome! :evil:
How unfortunate that he shared Caesar's name :rolleyes:
Cossiga was on the same board as Andreotti's, but at least he shared some 'Gladio secrets' here and there.

The man was the most loyal keeper of secrets of all time. Maybe it was why he had that chronic headaches, and kept going 'till 94 by swallowing aspirins. His most famous phrase was, 'I wasn't aware of...'!
 
Laura said:
Parenti's talk is great! I've ordered his book.

Parenti's video seems to have a section cut at 1hr 7mins 50 secs. It jumps from his talking about the Gracchi brothers to after Caesar's murder.
 
this is also a bit of an aside... It occurred to me that "Dictator of Louisiana" Huey Long, has a few similarities with Caesar. He was loved and hated. Loved by many of the poor people of Louisiana, and hated by his powerful enemy competitor good-old-boys. He was accused of being a dictator, but was responsible for many reforms that helped the poor. He was also assassinated. He said once, (to paraphrase) that some of the questionable things he did, he learned from those corrupted politicians who tried to do him in.

Wikipedia said:
Huey Pierce Long, Jr. (August 30, 1893 – September 10, 1935), nicknamed The Kingfish, was an American politician who served as the 40th Governor of Louisiana from 1928 to 1932 and as a member of the United States Senate from 1932 until his assassination in 1935. A Democrat, he was an outspoken left-wing populist. During his tenure, he commanded large networks of supporters and was willing to take forceful action, influencing claims that he was a political boss.[1] He was a prominent member of the Long political family.

Long is best known for his Share Our Wealth program, created in 1934 under the motto "Every Man a King." It proposed new wealth redistribution measures in the form of a net asset tax on corporations and individuals to curb the poverty and homelessness endemic nationwide during the Great Depression. To stimulate the economy, Long advocated federal spending on public works, schools and colleges, and old age pensions. He was an ardent critic of the policies of the Federal Reserve System.

A supporter of Franklin D. Roosevelt in the 1932 presidential election, Long split with Roosevelt in June 1933 to plan his own presidential bid for 1936 in alliance with the influential Catholic priest and radio commentator Charles Coughlin. However, Long was assassinated in 1935 and his national movement soon faded. However, his legacy continued in Louisiana through his wife, Senator Rose McConnell Long, and his son, Senator Russell B. Long.[2]

Under Long's leadership, hospitals and educational institutions were expanded, a system of charity hospitals was set up that provided health care for the poor, massive highway construction and free bridges brought an end to rural isolationism, and free textbooks for schoolchildren were introduced to tackle illiteracy.

I remember that Long wanted to tax yearly income above one million dollars at 100%. Pretty socialistic huh? Imagine the uproar something like that would cause from some factions today... So maybe Long, certainly not an angel, was not quite the devil he was made out to be. repeating syndrome?

A fascinating historical figure, nevertheless.
 
Mark said:
So maybe Long, certainly not an angel, was not quite the devil he was made out to be.

What if he was neither angel nor devil, but a normal human being? Shocking thought eh?!

Mark said:
repeating syndrome?

You betcha. History is one long line of murdered leaders doing good for ordinary people.
 
This interview by Parenti, on the events in and around Casear and comparison with the US today, is very good as well:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/178020-1

You can skip 5-10 mins in the middle where the interviewer deviates into personal questions.
 
Kniall said:
This interview by Parenti, on the events in and around Casear and comparison with the US today, is very good as well:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/178020-1

You can skip 5-10 mins in the middle where the interviewer deviates into personal questions.

The video is also available here, with transcript:

http://www.booknotes.org/Watch/178020-1/Michael+Parenti.aspx
 
Courageous Inmate Sort said:
Kniall said:
This interview by Parenti, on the events in and around Casear and comparison with the US today, is very good as well:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/178020-1

You can skip 5-10 mins in the middle where the interviewer deviates into personal questions.

The video is also available here, with transcript:

http://www.booknotes.org/Watch/178020-1/Michael+Parenti.aspx

AWESOME!!!! Thanks!
 
Kniall said:
Michael Parenti: The Assassination of Julius Caesar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IO_Ldn2H4o

Talk by Michael Parenti, author of The Assassination of Julius Caesar: A People's History of Ancient Rome given April 5, 1998 in Seattle.

I've seen the first few minutes and think it looks like one to watch, giving us an introductory overview of the Roman political system.

I loved his dynamics but could not get a full
transcript, so is this video worth transcripting?
 
Kniall said:
Mark said:
So maybe Long, certainly not an angel, was not quite the devil he was made out to be.

What if he was neither angel nor devil, but a normal human being? Shocking thought eh?!

And would be even more if the prayers of the people were to that normal human being.

I'm going to see Parenti's video :)



Edit: spelling.
 
dant said:
Kniall said:
Michael Parenti: The Assassination of Julius Caesar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IO_Ldn2H4o

Talk by Michael Parenti, author of The Assassination of Julius Caesar: A People's History of Ancient Rome given April 5, 1998 in Seattle.

I've seen the first few minutes and think it looks like one to watch, giving us an introductory overview of the Roman political system.

I loved his dynamics but could not get a full
transcript, so is this video worth transcripting?

Is it this what you're talking about?
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/transcript/transcript.php?programid=119384
 
MK Scarlett said:
dant said:
Kniall said:
Michael Parenti: The Assassination of Julius Caesar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IO_Ldn2H4o

Talk by Michael Parenti, author of The Assassination of Julius Caesar: A People's History of Ancient Rome given April 5, 1998 in Seattle.

I've seen the first few minutes and think it looks like one to watch, giving us an introductory overview of the Roman political system.

I loved his dynamics but could not get a full
transcript, so is this video worth transcripting?

Is it this what you're talking about?
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/transcript/transcript.php?programid=119384

I am talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IO_Ldn2H4o
Is there a transcript for this one? The link you supplied is the Interview
with Brian Lamb.
 
Mark said:
this is also a bit of an aside... It occurred to me that "Dictator of Louisiana" Huey Long, has a few similarities with Caesar. He was loved and hated. Loved by many of the poor people of Louisiana, and hated by his powerful enemy competitor good-old-boys. He was accused of being a dictator, but was responsible for many reforms that helped the poor. He was also assassinated. He said once, (to paraphrase) that some of the questionable things he did, he learned from those corrupted politicians who tried to do him in.

...
Nice parallel. Randy Newman wrote a song about Long:

There's a hundred-thousand Frenchmen in New Orleans
In New Orleans there are Frenchmen everywhere
But your house could fall down
Your baby could drown
Wouldn't none of those Frenchmen care

Everybody gather 'round
Loosen up your suspenders
Hunker down on the ground
I'm a cracker
And you are too
But don't I take good care of you

Who built the highway to Baton Rouge?
Who put up the hospital and built your schools?
Who looks after shit-kickers like you?
The Kingfish do

Who gave a party at the Roosevelt Hotel?
And invited the whole north half of the state down there for free
The people in the city
Had their eyes bugging out
Cause everyone looked just like me

Here comes the Kingfish, the Kingfish
Everybody sing
Here's the Kingfish, the Kingfish
Every man a king

Who took on the Standard Oil men
And whipped their ass
Just like he promised he'd do?
Ain't no Standard Oil men gonna run this state
Gonna be run by little folks like me and you

Here's the Kingfish, the Kingfish
Friend of the working man
The Kingfish, the Kingfish
The Kingfish gonna save this land

Here's a clip of Levon Helm signing it close to the end of his life: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/videos/levon-helm-sings-kingfish-in-aint-in-it-for-my-health-clip-20130417#ooid=xyN3QwYjoaBXxqTqvWiq3Sc4k6X0AV4M
 
Perceval said:
Laura said:
Parenti's talk is great! I've ordered his book.

Parenti's video seems to have a section cut at 1hr 7mins 50 secs. It jumps from his talking about the Gracchi brothers to after Caesar's murder.

Watched it a few hours ago and it stopped around that time I think and said "an error has occurred." And the video wouldn't play anymore. But it was really great, anyway. I'll be ordering his book too.
 
dant said:
MK Scarlett said:
dant said:
Kniall said:
Michael Parenti: The Assassination of Julius Caesar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IO_Ldn2H4o

Talk by Michael Parenti, author of The Assassination of Julius Caesar: A People's History of Ancient Rome given April 5, 1998 in Seattle.

I've seen the first few minutes and think it looks like one to watch, giving us an introductory overview of the Roman political system.

I loved his dynamics but could not get a full
transcript, so is this video worth transcripting?

Is it this what you're talking about?
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/transcript/transcript.php?programid=119384

I am talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IO_Ldn2H4o
Is there a transcript for this one? The link you supplied is the Interview
with Brian Lamb.

Thank you dant for pointing my confusion between the too videos... :rolleyes:
 
happyliza said:
Loved the documentary and the film -both of which showed the caring side of JC osit. I dont have a copy to hand but was wondering about re-reading Shakespeare's JC to see how much he knew about the real JC. I enjoyed studying it at school but would have been given a totally different slant on it.

Plutarch’s Lives, translated by North, is usually considered the main source used by Shakespeare for his play Julius Caesar. It should be borne in mind though that Shakespeare was writing a dramatic play, not history, and typically would alter the historical details and characters involved to suit dramatic purposes.

The New Variorum Edition of Julius Caesar, edited by Horace Howard Furness Jr (1913), collects together in one volume most of the critical commentary and interpretations of the play made up until 1913. Here is a quote from it on sources Shakespeare may have used in writing his play:

Delius (Jahrbuch, xvii, pp.67-81) has made an exhaustive comparison of the whole Tragedy with the passages from Plutarch; and arrives at practically the same conclusions as MacCallum: That Shakespeare's indebted to North’s translation [of Plutarch] is not so great as has been generally supposed. Lloyd is, I believe, the first to have suggested that the general tone of Antony’s oration seems to indicate an acquaintance with the speech given to Antony by Appian in his history of the Civil Wars, a translation of which was made by Bynniman in 1578. That there is a resemblance may not be denied; but if this work were known to Shakespeare, he has failed to make extensive use of it; this one passage is the single place where any marked similiarity is shown. Plutarch’s account of Antony’s oration is meager, to say the least, and Shakespeare may, therefore, have consulted Appian when his main authority failed him. Lloyd also opines that Antony’s sarcastic iteration of ‘honourable,’ as applied to Brutus and Cassius, was suggested by passages in Cicero’s Second Philippic; but this is, I think, very doubtful; there was no translation of the Philippics in Shakespeare’s time. Any strong corroborative proof of Shakespeare’s use of Suetonius’s Lives of the Twelve Caesars is lacking, albeit both Steevens and Malone quote passages in support of this, notably in reference to Caesar’s exclamation, ‘Et tu, Brute?’ and to the number of wounds said to have been received by Caesar; but Philemon Holland’s is the earliest translation of Suetonius, and its date (1606) is by several years later than the date of composition of Julius Caesar. Dr Sykes asserts that, besides Plutacrch, Shakespeare ‘knew and used ‘Appian, Dio, Ovid, and possibly Suetonius, Valerius Maximus, Virgil’s Georgics, Boccaccio’s Life of Caesar, and Eedes’ Latin play.’ That Shakespeare was acquainted with Latin authors is abundantly shown throughout his works, but in regard to Dion Cassius’s Annals of the Roman People (Dio in Syke’s list) the case is different. No translation of the Annals appeared until that by Manning in 1704, and had Shakespeare had sufficient knowledge of Greek to read this author in the original he need not have resorted to North’s translation of Plutarch, which, by incontrovertible evidence, we know he used. Dion Cassius must, therefore, I think, be excluded on the same grounds as Suetonius; so likewise Valerius Maximus, a translation of whose ‘Acts and Sayings of the Noble Romans’ was first given by Speed in 1678.
- Furness, New Variorum Edition of Julius Caesar (1913), Appendix on Plot-Sources, page 295.

[I would just comment on the above that I think Shakespeare’s plays were written by someone who was fluent in reading Greek and Latin, and hence I would disagree with Furness’ ruling out possible sources on the grounds that they were not available in English translation.]

One other interesting question from Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar, is the question of whether Shakespeare knew of the circulation of the blood, before the discovery and publication of Gabriel Harvey’s work on the circulation of the blood in 1628. The lines from Act II, scene I, lines 317-319 suggest he may have done:

Brutus: You are my true and honourable Wife,
As deere to me, as are the ruddy droppes
That visit my sad heart.
 
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