Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[cubbex]

I've been reading this interesting thread for awhile. But, the biggest conundrum over the Caesar/Christ connection isn't that Caesar was Christ, but rather how did the collective memory of the population fail. I mean if we try to imagine if someone tried to do the same with George Washington today, it would be totally absurd. George Washington, like Caesar, was a national hero. The major theme of Washington's story is commonly known. I would expect that it was the same with Caesar.

It seems like there would have to have been a mechanism by which the knowledge of Caesar, at the level of the individual, was unable to be passed to the next generation in some critical mass. If we look at the story of JFK's death, which is commonly known, and if another incident is told that is parallel to JFK, our first thought would be the noticing of the similarity to JFK. And if there were too many similarities, we would suspect something is up. I have been asking myself what would have to happen for a parallel story of JFK to gain the same prominence over the original as in the case with Caesar. To me the only thing that makes sense is that a critical mass of a generation that knows the original version would have to die off before that knowledge could be transmitted to the next generation.

Can't you see it?
The exact same thing is being played out in the USA and it is only 200 years since George, give it another 500 years.
Suppose a comet or 10 hits the US, this would allow the psychos(hiding in safety and emerging to control the remnants of society) an opportunity to re-write George's history and the US would no longer be a country of free men.

The way it is going today, being a free man in the US is only a dream, at best.

Comets are not needed into the equation. In the present before they put a good person in a bad light, they need to start making assumptions and throwing manipulative games, to start making that person look like a crazy. Remember what laura mentioned about cicero, and remember caesar, remember that the western culture began on the ancient greece and the ancient rome. Now, long ago they didn't have tv nor they had ways to communicate as good as we can today, they had no internet, and i bet they were pretty much concerned with just having a good life and be afraid of their superiors.

So... what may happen in the US it can be seen from all the countries and so everyone can judge better because they are out of the sandbox, but read comments from american citizens, most of them believe the government lies. So the roman empire had very nicely controlled their people, and if there were foreign people observing all this, maybe it was few of them and if they wrote books, the catholic church did a good job burning books.

I somehow feel intimidated to say something about this discussion since so many 'knowledgeable' people have already established the 'truth' about this subject. But anyway, I just feel obligated to make my humble opinion by saying that, although I also do not believe in the myth of Jesus as portrayed in the Christian gospels, I nonetheless do not seriously think that he was somehow the same entity than the epileptic Roman Julius Seasar!

Maybe I am not too much intellectual than other folks posting in this thread, but I do think that I still have enough brain potential to analyse things and conclude that reality is a lot more complex than what people often want it to be. Simply the fact of reading a few authors who have made such pronouncements is not enough to make me believe it is the truth. As far as I have read the Cs information, I still haven't read anywhere about them making such a suggestion. What then prompted Laura to make such a provocative conclusion of the relationship between Jesus and Julius Ceasar? Could it be that Laura herself (whose work I still respect up to now) doesn't trust anymore the information she received from her channeling source?

If that is so, then what does this mean for the rest of us?

Loire calm down, intellect has nothing to do here. Intellect is not needed as much as knowledge, I had the same feelings when I was a newbie here but now i understand that is not about being humble, nor about being intelligent, is all about "perception", we feel dumb because we are ignorant but after doing your research and reading all recommended here, it starts making sense. Your intelligence will increase drammatically after your knowledge increase first. I have this idea that our soul is our eyes, or the first lent of our perception.

And Laura is out of the discussion. She has nothing to do with your doubts.

 

[Laura]

I somehow feel intimidated to say something about this discussion since so many 'knowledgeable' people have already established the 'truth' about this subject. But anyway, I just feel obligated to make my humble opinion by saying that, although I also do not believe in the myth of Jesus as portrayed in the Christian gospels, I nonetheless do not seriously think that he was somehow the same entity than the epileptic Roman Julius Seasar!

A careful study of the sources convinces me that Caesar was NOT epileptic but rather that later in his life, after he was quite worn out, he had a couple of mini-strokes or even hypoglycemic insulin shock episodes.

Maybe I am not too much intellectual than other folks posting in this thread, but I do think that I still have enough brain potential to analyse things and conclude that reality is a lot more complex than what people often want it to be.

Then perhaps you will use this "too much intellectual" to actually engage with the recommended materials instead of offering an emotion driven opinion?

Simply the fact of reading a few authors who have made such pronouncements is not enough to make me believe it is the truth.

Like I said, engage with the research yourself. It may take you ten or fifteen years to get through it all, but if you do it open-mindedly, I think you may come to the same conclusion.

As far as I have read the Cs information, I still haven't read anywhere about them making such a suggestion. What then prompted Laura to make such a provocative conclusion of the relationship between Jesus and Julius Ceasar? Could it be that Laura herself (whose work I still respect up to now) doesn't trust anymore the information she received from her channeling source?

I'm rather nonplussed that you would bring up the Cs in a discussion about factual history. Especially after you have declared yourself to be "too much intellectual" and unable to "believe" the "pronouncements" of a "few authors".

Thanks Infinithy for your insight. It somehow helped to shade some light to me about how to approach this topic and many others on this forum. So If I understand well your reasoning, all ideas discussed here (including the Cs materials) should only be taken as working theories on which to build up factual evidences.

We state that repeatedly.

If this is the case, then it means that there can be no definitive answer to any question asked. Which also implies that this whole topic (about Jesus and Julious Ceasar) must only be taken as a food for thought. I don't know if I understood you well.

Very bad logic.

It does not follow that there cannot be a definitive answer to many questions if one does the research. Your statement implies, (shocking to me), that the Cs should be taken as giving "definitive answers" to one who is "too much intellectual" ???!!!

The second assumption, based on the first wrong premise is equally flawed. Again, I'm shocked at such poor thinking skills in one who claims to be "too much intellectual."

I might also find it useful to get the opinion of Laura , since she is the author of this thread :)

You have it.

 

[Laura]

There's so much intermixing of stories that I can hold here...

This Cilicia with Tarsus in it and the River Cydnus is most interesting! So Cleopatra's barge with the gilded poop resemble the Cilician pirate's brazen peak ships confiscated by Pompey!?

Very suggestive, isn't it? Especially with all of Plutarch's loaded remarks about the wealthy and powerful being affiliated with the pirates. It's almost as if he said: well, Caesar and Anthony were pirates too and here's the clue: Cleopatra and her barge, Anthony and his drinking bouts, and it was noted that while Caesar was in Alexandria, he would participate in all night drinking bouts to stay safe. That's darned peculiar because Caesar was not a drinker and was, in fact, well-known for his abstemiousness.

A real thriller indeed! Thanks! I'll go for a bit of Clodius now, while reading slowly through the book list.

Indeed it is. What really got me going was pulling on the pirate thread. I mean, really, a nearly global problem with thousands of pirate ships controlling the whole Med, cities, and more, and Pompey just went out and cleaned up the whole problem in 40 days? Really?? Was Pompey also a Pirate Pal and the whole thing was set up to showcase his talents for some reason?

P.S. Now I'm picturing an evil Octavian/Augustus/Divi Filius going 'Stalin' and subverting Caesar's history during his 40-years-Empire of Pax Romana , but I'll better read on than fly with my imagination.

I'm inclining somewhat to that view as the beginning of the thing, though a big piece of the puzzle lies with the Flavians as Atwill (who thinks he has the whole banana) points out. And, of course, as Carotta describes, there was a certain amount of transposition already going on.

Now, if we just add in a little cosmic upset which seems to have been present and we know about it thanks to both Tacitus and Josephus, and you have a recipe for a dramatic switcheroo. Just think 9-11 and the demonizing of Muslims. That was done pretty easily with just a couple of destroyed buildings. Imagine what you could do with cosmic cooperation and a few legions?

 

[lucasraffablog]

I start reading about it, mainly Julius Caesar, and I found some interesting articles in spanish.
One of it´s about the "image" of Julius. For example, the image that Shakespeare show to us (and the most popular this days) is different than others authors. And, in this "versions of the history", Brutus image´s interesting.
Brutus, for Shakespeare, had a positive image. Later, for French Revolution, too, because Brutus "ends with the tyrany guy".
But Brutus, by Dante in the Divine Comedy, is the worst guy in the world. He ends in the ninth hell, close to Judas (got it?).
Brutus it´s and important piece on this, because reminds us the "differents perspectives" about history (Julius, the tyran, or Julius the hero? Brutus the saver or Brutus the traitor?)

Take the concept and bring it to our days. What happen if US kills a dictator somewhere in Africa, Asia or Southamerica? Now, "travel" to the past. Why Brutus generate the kill of Caesar? And you have an entire piece of history there. Why Judas generate the kill of Jesus? Another piece of history (or not).

(sorry my bad english)


Some articles (in spanish):
_ttp://www.tiempodehoy.com/cultura/historia/la-muerte-de-julio-cesar-ii-el-mito
_ttp://anatomiadelahistoria.com/2011/08/el-cine-y-la-imagen-de-cayo-julio-cesar-realidad-o-ficcion/

 

[SeekinTruth]

In the Cassiopaean Session 22 July 1994 transcript thread today there was a very good discovery related to what the C's had said in that session. I was thinking it should be posted hear and then saw that Laura suggested moving the last few posts here. But I think it's better to quote/copy it here and leave it there as well. So here goes:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,15403.msg429148.html#msg429148

Q: (L) We tried it. It wasn't satisfactory. Was Jesus special, Christed as it is called, in any way?
A: Quick exalted - Yontar[11] - ancient wars - civil entrancement - Zindar council.

Q: (L) We tried it. It wasn't satisfactory. Was Jesus special, Christed as it is called, in any way?
A: Quick exalted - Yontar[11] - ancient wars - civil entrancement - Zindar council.

Q: (L) We tried it. It wasn't satisfactory. Was Jesus special, Christed as it is called, in any way?
A: Quick exalted - Yontar[11] - ancient wars - civil entrancement - Zindar council.

Yontar is Jupiter and Zindar is Saturn in the C's cosmogony. What do these have to do with 'ancient wars' and 'civil entrancement'? The latter term indicates to me something like 'mass hypnosis', but I don't really understand that in the context of Jesus being 'Christed', or quick exalted. I'd be happy to hear thoughts on this!

How do you know the C's cosmogony?

The session also appears in (not necessarily in its entirety):

• Amazing Grace - Chapter 44 Comets and Cassiopaeans
  
  
• Wave 1 - Riding the Wave - Chapter 1 Riding the Wave (just as Approaching Infinity mentioned). Also the date of the session in the book is 23 july and should be 22 july which was already addressed in the above posts
  
  
• Wave 5 - Petty Tyrants - Chapter 34 The Channel
  (The date is fine in here)

How do you know the C's cosmogony?

Hi Str!ke,

The C's gave a list of the planets of our solar system in Session September 30, 1994: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,25860.0.html

The list is situated just before the end of the session. There have been some discussions about it in the course of the years. Best to use the search function to discover those.

Here is one example to get you started: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,27793.0.html

Hope this helps a bit. :)

 

[Mal7]

This book looks to me like quite a good introduction to Julius Caesar:

Julius Caesar: The Colossus of Rome by Richard A. Billows. London: Routledge, 2009.

In the main part of the book, Billows has confined his numerous footnotes to the original classical sources, rather than works by modern historians.

In the Preface, he lists some other modern histories that he thinks are of interest. Parenti's book gets a very favourable mention:

Two very good recent biographies are Adrian Goldsworthy's Caesar: Life of a Colossus (2006) and Luigi Canfora's Julius Caesar: The People's Dictator (1999). To my mind more interesting, though, is a work by a writer who is not a professional scholar and academic, nor even a professional Roman historian: Michael Parenti. His The Assassination of Caesar (2003), though it has errors and misunderstandings, offers much food for thought in Parenti's ability to 'think outside the box' and offer genuinely different interpretations of events and characters. I have read it with great profit.

- Billows, Julius Caesar: The Colossus of Rome, page xii.

 

[Sol Logos]

I came across a reference to the Tibetan "Epic of King Gesar" as possibly being originally about [Julius?] Caesar today. The Tibetan poem has a long history, pre-dating the arrival of Buddhism in Tibet, but Buddhist elements were then included in later redactions of the poem.

The Epic of King Gesar

The story of the legendary warrior Gesar is often described as the Tibetan national epic and as the longest poem in the world.
[. . .]
The location of Gesar's homeland, Ling, has been the subject of much debate. Current Tibetan and Chinese scholarship locates Ling in the eastern Tibetan region of Derge County in Sichuan. However, in some versions of the epic, Gesar is said to hail from Trom, "Rome," so that the name "Trom Gesar" has been explained as derived from the title "Caesar of Rome." If this is its true source, it is most likely because this title is known to have been used by Turkic kings ruling in the area of what is now Afghanistan, who were allies of the Tibetan empire during the eighth century.

- Sources of Tibetan Tradition, edited by Kurtis R. Schaeffer, Matthew T. Kapstein, and Gray Tuttle. NY: Columbia University Press, 2013, page 309.

Its interesting, I found a summary of King Gesar's life that has references / similarities to Jesus in the Bible and Caesar. http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/features/2007/05/superhuman2.html

King of Ling

Gesar may have the same root word as caesar, kaiser, and tsar. Some historians have even suggested that Gesar originated as a folk memory of Julius Caesar, although that theory seems to have fallen out of favor.

Thubpa Gawa is a reluctant hero. Before he is reborn to the realm of mortals to combat the plague of demons that threaten the Religion, he extracts numerous, and often selfish, concessions from the other gods. They acquiesce and the superhuman savior arrives unto the world as the infant of a virgin nagi. After living a feral existence with his mother, he becomes the King of Ling by winning a horse race at the age of twelve. He is renamed Gesar. Armed with celestial weapons and riding a mystical charger, he goes on to conquer the four demonic kingdoms to the north, south, east, and west. He then subdues King Tazig for good measure. Along the way, he deals with his evil yet comical uncle Todong and his unfaithful wife Dugmo. Finally, at an old age, he and his closest followers meditate one last time and ascend to paradise.

 

[shijing]

The thing is, the whole pirate story strikes me as odd from the getgo especially if you read the accounts of Plutarch. If he got those accounts from Asinius Pollio, it is entirely possible that it was in code because, as you may know, the first report of the Mithraic Mysteries was that it was brought by "Cilician pirates". And what is in Cilicia? Tarsus and the home town of not just the apostle Paul, but also a whole bunch of Stoics.

That's really interesting. Is your hunch right now that the mithraeum were connected to the Stoic school?

 

[Eboard10]

The thing is, the whole pirate story strikes me as odd from the getgo especially if you read the accounts of Plutarch. If he got those accounts from Asinius Pollio, it is entirely possible that it was in code because, as you may know, the first report of the Mithraic Mysteries was that it was brought by "Cilician pirates". And what is in Cilicia? Tarsus and the home town of not just the apostle Paul, but also a whole bunch of Stoics.

That's really interesting. Is your hunch right now that the mithraeum were connected to the Stoic school?

Which reminds me of this excerpt from the transcripts:

Session 9 April 2011

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,22855.0.html

Q: (L) Did the people who put together the Old Testament use the Greek canon of Homer and Hesiod as a template?

A: You finally figured that out?

Q: (L) Are you saying what took us so long?

A: Yes!

Q: (L) Were the Therapeutae involved in the composition of the Old Testament?

A: Partly.

(L) Did Paul of Tarsus put the new testament together?

A: Nope.

Q: (Burma Jones) Did Paul of Tarsus actually exist?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Are parts of the new testament composed of Paul’s actual writings?

A: Yes.

(L) How close are they to what he originally wrote?

A: 70 percent.

Q: (L) Did Paul of Tarsus belong to any philosophical school or mystical group?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Was it one of the mystery religions?

A: Similar to them but older. There are traces here and there. You have been doing well reconstructing this. You could say that this communication is part of same.

Q: (L) Is this what Gurdjieff referred to as esoteric Christianity?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) What did the 7th grade of Mithraism originally confer?

A: Mithraism was the reversal of the STO version.

Q: (L) What does that mean it conferred?

A: Mastery of forces and being mastered.

Q: (L) Why is Mithras shown wearing a Phrygian cap?

A: To confuse the observers. Keep in mind that the issues are more complex than your questions allow.

 

[shijing]

Thanks Eboard10, I had forgotten about that particular excerpt -- that's quite helpful!

 

[Muxel]

@AI

In addition to what you said, I was wondering if "Zindar Council" could have something to do with this:

Pherecydes described a cosmogony based on three ‘principles’: Zas (Zeus), Cthonie (earth) and Chronos which I will interpret to be three main bodies of a formerly single giant comet. Pentemychos was about a cosmic battle taking place, with Chronos as the head of one side and Ophioneus – the serpent – as the leader of the other. As we know, the same story is elsewhere enacted with Zeus and Typhon/Typhoeus, Marduk vs. Tiamat, and parallels we’ve covered above. The semen (seeds) of Chronos was placed in the ‘recesses’ and numerous other gods and their offspring were the result. This is described in a fragment preserved in Damascius’ On First Principles and we’ve read almost exactly the same thing in Hesiod, quoted above in the story of the castration of Chronos.

With the understanding of giant comets, and that they were perceived to arrive from certain areas of the sky with regularity, as explained by the science we have reviewed above, we can better interpret the ‘recesses’ as being particular areas of the sky that were later defined as constellations, created and named in accordance with the cometary activity.

Pherecydes (544 BC), born on the Greek island of Siros, is said to have been the bridge between the ancient myths and pre-Socratic Greek philosophy. He described a cosmogony based on three principles: Zas (Zeus), Cthonie (the Chthonic) and Chronos (Time). That translates roughly to the fiery force of Zeus (electricity?), plus what was inside or under the earth, and possibly “time”, though that may be a later interpretation of Chronos AKA Saturn who “always existed”. What seems to be so is that the implication was that Chronos, or Time, was recurrent;that is, came back again and again as our Giant Comet and his children certainly did and continue to do.

Because, what isn't Saturn? Saturn seems to be everywhere and in everything: Jehovah, Dionysus, Chronos (Kronos?), Sabazios, "nature," hyperdimensional reality, food for the Moon, cyclical catastrophe...

 

[Muxel]

That's really interesting. Is your hunch right now that the mithraeum were connected to the Stoic school?

Would you be surprised to know that Mithraism was probably a creation of the Stoic philosophers to encode very important information about a coming disaster... as in dis-aster?

 

[shijing]

And thank you Muxel!

 

[WIN 52]

I've been reading this interesting thread for awhile. But, the biggest conundrum over the Caesar/Christ connection isn't that Caesar was Christ, but rather how did the collective memory of the population fail. I mean if we try to imagine if someone tried to do the same with George Washington today, it would be totally absurd. George Washington, like Caesar, was a national hero. The major theme of Washington's story is commonly known. I would expect that it was the same with Caesar.

It seems like there would have to have been a mechanism by which the knowledge of Caesar, at the level of the individual, was unable to be passed to the next generation in some critical mass. If we look at the story of JFK's death, which is commonly known, and if another incident is told that is parallel to JFK, our first thought would be the noticing of the similarity to JFK. And if there were too many similarities, we would suspect something is up. I have been asking myself what would have to happen for a parallel story of JFK to gain the same prominence over the original as in the case with Caesar. To me the only thing that makes sense is that a critical mass of a generation that knows the original version would have to die off before that knowledge could be transmitted to the next generation.

Can't you see it?
The exact same thing is being played out in the USA and it is only 200 years since George, give it another 500 years.
Suppose a comet or 10 hits the US, this would allow the psychos(hiding in safety and emerging to control the remnants of society) an opportunity to re-write George's history and the US would no longer be a country of free men.

The way it is going today, being a free man in the US is only a dream, at best.

Comets are not needed into the equation. In the present before they put a good person in a bad light, they need to start making assumptions and throwing manipulative games, to start making that person look like a crazy. Remember what laura mentioned about cicero, and remember caesar, remember that the western culture began on the ancient greece and the ancient rome. Now, long ago they didn't have tv nor they had ways to communicate as good as we can today, they had no internet, and i bet they were pretty much concerned with just having a good life and be afraid of their superiors.

So... what may happen in the US it can be seen from all the countries and so everyone can judge better because they are out of the sandbox, but read comments from american citizens, most of them believe the government lies. So the roman empire had very nicely controlled their people, and if there were foreign people observing all this, maybe it was few of them and if they wrote books, the catholic church did a good job burning books.

There is talk about EMT blasts that will wipe out all communication systems. You can see it now, but what will the world do when finding food becomes the main focus and there is no communication available?

You see, it takes quite an orchestration of workers to keep these communication lines working. Think about what if they fail. In a recent article on SOTT it was pointed out that 90% of the US citizens would not survive a year, if the communication, transport and economy fails. Without marketing ability most producers(corporate farms for one) would stop production. How would people feed themselves if the wheels stopped turning?

It wouldn't surprise me if there has actually been talk about the US doing this to themselves, for population control. It is plain that the US people have no control over what is done in the name of freedom, whether they agree or not. Normal citizens are being treated like terrorists as we speak.

How do you know what types of control were in place in Rome during those times? And, could the rise in popularity and murder of Cesar be due to his opposition against the corruption? They would certainly want to wipe that out of the records, just like the USA does today.

I for one, kind of consider myself to be a bit of a pirate or black sheep. Why? Because I have never been happy with the administration that runs things in today's world. I have found it to be very corrupted, in almost every vein. So much so that I just want to bring the whole corrupted system down. Does that make me a terrorist?

Cesar is not put in a good light, by Rome, why? Could it be because Rome didn't want the world to figure out why he gained so much popularity? Possibly because he stood for a state of free men/women and all men/women were equal? Just like the US (similar to Rome) is making a free state of men and being, not possible?

No TV or internet might be a good thing. It would certainly bring people together.

 

[cubbex]

A little bit of emotional baggage there and being reactive. I don't know what you did understand, but the central point to my response to you, is that a corrupt government does not need comets to manipulate their citizens, and that history repeats itself.

Of course, if some catastrophic event is going on at the same time, it may help them.

There is talk about EMT blasts that will wipe out all communication systems. You can see it now, but what will the world do when finding food becomes the main focus and there is no communication available?

You see, it takes quite an orchestration of workers to keep these communication lines working. Think about what if they fail. In a recent article on SOTT it was pointed out that 90% of the US citizens would not survive a year, if the communication, transport and economy fails. Without marketing ability most producers(corporate farms for one) would stop production. How would people feed themselves if the wheels stopped turning?

yes I already know that, Laura talks about it in the first 100 pages of the secret history book, and pretty much gives a good description of what happens if technology fails. And I guess is "EMP blast", I can't find any related to EMT blasts.

If the cs' pointed out 90% of US citizens wont's survive I don't know what it has to do with caesar, and the corruption of his image.

No TV or internet might be a good thing. It would certainly bring people together.

No offense but this idea is quite stupid. How do you think we've been brought together? through internet of course, we don't live in the same country, we need this forum to network with other people from other countries, with different education and with different point of views. It would not bring people together, it would isolate them, and it would cut all possibilities to share vital information with others. Making it easier for psychopaths to take control and play the saviors.

Tv would be useful tool, if it's not controlled by corps that work for other corps, that end working for other corps, just to get rich.

I recommend you to write a journal, you have lots of ideas that need to be put in order in my opinion.