Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[Cosmos]

For anyone interested, here is the german original version called "Caesar. Geschichte Seines Ruhms." by Friedrich Gundolf (Gundelfinger) from 1924:
_http://www.ub.uni-koeln.de/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/dirksen&CISOPTR=329281&REC=1

 

[dantem]

Something like that... then we can start checking it all in depth. Anyone can pick up a chapter and start working on it.

Comments?

Sounds good!

It is formal Italian literature from the 19th Century, there are words that are no longer used in any book nor are found in any dictionary. I can still recognize them from their root words, but making this into common English is most tricky! In any case, I think it is fair to say that my translation is better than google translate!

Petrarch mentions in Chapter 27 that Crassus wife was Caesar's lover, also Pompey's wife.

Anyway, can someone send me an invitation to sott_translate?

I can give hints for translation, even if translating from Italian to English is not my forte, usually I do the other way around, you know :)

For the sott_translate send a PM to Gandalf!

 

[dantem]

Also, if you find any sections that are slowing you down, you can skip them and we can probably handle them quicker between two or three on Google hangouts.

Hi Don Genaro!

As you may know, for bigger translations like that, Sott has developed a platform for the 'Translator's Team'. First step would be to ask for a subscription at sott_translate, as Gaby has pointed out, then we'll get directions to login on the translator's interface.

Please send a PM to Gandalf for the membership.

As for Google hangouts, I don't know about others, but I've really no time to hang on it. With the Sott platform we'll have all the material into one server, easy to pick up, easy to upload, and share question on the list and time to think about it.

 

[Zadius Sky]

For anyone interested, here is the german original version called "Caesar. Geschichte Seines Ruhms." by Friedrich Gundolf (Gundelfinger) from 1924:
_http://www.ub.uni-koeln.de/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/dirksen&CISOPTR=329281&REC=1

Here's another book by Gundolf: Caesar in der deutschen Litteratur (Caesar in the German literature - German edition):

_https://archive.org/details/caesarinderdeut01gundgoog

 

[Don Genaro]

I can give hints for translation, even if translating from Italian to English is not my forte, usually I do the other way around, you know :)

Just to clarify Dantem, I don't speak Italian so if you and Gaby want to do an IT, I'll proofread it :)

 

[SeekinTruth]

Found this doing a google search for something else. Looks like it might be interesting:

_http://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1259&context=utk_chanhonoproj

It's an honors thesis titled: "Caesar: Slain with Daggers but Stabbed with Words" or "Cicero as Failure and Fraud"

Read it. Pretty lightweight: high school level.

OK, so I'm deciding to skip that one, after thinking of putting it in my reading list, but have too much to read already. Thanks for letting us know that it's not on a very high level, Laura (I can always come back to it when I run out of material to read someday -- yeah, right, that'll be the day :P).

One of the most fascinating things about Gundolf's study is that one is enabled to "take the measure" of the various writers, historians, poets, etc, who examined the life of Caesar and opined on it, or reproduced or used it in some way. It's almost like a Ponerological study on those individuals who have shaped the thinking of leaders or masses at various points in history. There are a number of those he references with whose work I am familiar enough to see that what he is saying is accurate and deeply insightful. So I tend to accept what he says about those whose work I am not familiar with. In fact, he cites so many works that most of us have never heard of that it is quite an amazing exposition.

Gundolf's synopsis of Lord Bacon is devastating but it is something I have long felt to be true though I was never able to articulate exactly why. This discussion begins at the bottom of p. 196.

Another fascinating thing about this book is that he describes the context in which ideas and perceptions and perspectives emerge which amounts almost to a history of the emergence of the domination of the church, it's conflicts with state power, and how it was overtaken by the religion of science via the Renaissance.

Amazing book.

Yeah, it IS an amazing book. The scope of Gundolf's knowledge is breathtaking. I've heard of less than half of the works he cites and read much less than that. It's really fascinating as he goes through the different periods and milieus -- and the description of the struggle between the church and the state. In a way, it's also a good brush up of the chronology and periods and rulers, etc. -- a very interesting way to cover a couple thousand years of history. I'm on page 115 and am loving it (will be getting back to it shortly).

 

[Muxel]

 

[Laura]

Muxel, is that just screenshots or do you have a pdf you can attach to a post? I can barely read it.

And.... in between other things, I finished "The Mantle of Caesar". Just STUNNING work. So few scholars like that in the world to day IF ANY AT ALL.

Ark and I were talking the other night about how thinking has really declined, memory, etc, because of computers. It's so true.

I've been reading Syme's "Tacitus" at night, and Gundolf during the day for the past week, and both of them are just amazing intellects.

 

[Muxel]

All screenshots from Google Books previews.

You have to click this icon

 

[Palinurus]

Ah! Thanks for the additional explanation, Muxel. I had the same problem Laura has mentioned.

BTW, you forgot to state that one has first to activate the enlarge function and then click on the icon you showed. That way it worked fine for me...

 

[Gaby]

1- Download all the images
2- OCR them into text files, .doc usually.
3- Start the google translate thing.
4- A first sweep through it to fix punctuation and most ugly errors.
5- Upload the 27 chapters/files on Transop

Something like that... then we can start checking it all in depth. Anyone can pick up a chapter and start working on it.

Comments?

Actually, I do have more comments...

If you have no time, then I think the priority is to make a translation that is readable. The google translate version is so inaccurate and so unreadable, that I'm doing the text from scratch. It is old Italian style which google doesn't find friendly. I have done 22 pages and I'm getting the hang of it, but I know that this will have to be proofread first in its entirety by someone who knows Italian as a first language and is familiarized with "ancient" literary Italian in order to make an in-depth translation.

I find the text very fascinating, but I do not dare called it an "official" transop project. I can make a readable version considering that it is practically impossible to understand the google version, but by no means it would be an in depth translation.

FWIW!

 

[dant]

I hope this is useful?

Found on: https://openlibrary.org/
Search: Lives of Illustrious Men

_https://archive.org/download/livesofillustrio02plutuoft/livesofillustrio02plutuoft.pdf

_https://openlibrary.org/works/ia:PlutarchsLivesOfIllustriousMenV.1/PLUTARCH%27S_LIVES_OF_ILLUSTRIOUS_MEN_v.1
_https://openlibrary.org/works/ia:PlutarchsLivesOfIllustriousMenV.2/PLUTARCH%27S_LIVES_OF_ILLUSTRIOUS_MEN_v.2
_https://openlibrary.org/works/ia:PlutarchsLivesOfIllustriousMenV.3/PLUTARCH%27S_LIVES_OF_ILLUSTRIOUS_MEN_v.3

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I hope this is useful?

Found on: https://openlibrary.org/
Search: Lives of Illustrious Men

_https://archive.org/download/livesofillustrio02plutuoft/livesofillustrio02plutuoft.pdf

_https://openlibrary.org/works/ia:PlutarchsLivesOfIllustriousMenV.1/PLUTARCH%27S_LIVES_OF_ILLUSTRIOUS_MEN_v.1
_https://openlibrary.org/works/ia:PlutarchsLivesOfIllustriousMenV.2/PLUTARCH%27S_LIVES_OF_ILLUSTRIOUS_MEN_v.2
_https://openlibrary.org/works/ia:PlutarchsLivesOfIllustriousMenV.3/PLUTARCH%27S_LIVES_OF_ILLUSTRIOUS_MEN_v.3

That's Plutarch (who is widely available in English), not Petrarch. ;)

 

[dant]

Ah, I got tripped up...

What are we looking for exactly please?

<edit>
Ok, I think I understand now.. there is no English translations!
Bah!

 

[Laura]

Ah, I got tripped up...

What are we looking for exactly please?

<edit>
Ok, I think I understand now.. there is no English translations!
Bah!

Yes, all I want/need is a translation of PETRARCH's bio of Julius Caesar. There are plenty of translations of PLUTARCH's Life of Caesar.

Like I said, I ordered the book - Italian, Latin, dunno - and when it arrives, I can scan ONLY the text wanted unless someone finds exactly that on the net somewhere.

I'm already waiting for the John of Salisbury texts since what I am trying to get at is a comparison of what was known and how early it was known and what is the provenance of the texts if that is possible to learn. Usually, that information is given in an introduction or commentary to a text. So, if there is an intro to the Petrarch text, that might be important.