Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[dant]

More Petrarch...
_https://openlibrary.org/authors/OL77056A/Francesco_Petrarca
_https://archive.org/stream/petrarchsletters00petruoft#page/n9/mode/2up
[...]

_http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/petrarch1.asp ???

 

[dia6olo]

I'm 217 pages into Gundolf's Mantle of Caesar, fascinating read and superbly researched especially considering when it was written!

I decided to contact Francesco Carotta recommending the book in case he hadn't read it and mentioned this forum along with Laura's excellent research.

He replied with.

Interesting forum.
About Atwill’s conspiracy theory, which is often amalgamated with our research and also cited in this forum, it is to say that it is incompatible with the results of our research, because, if Jesus’ story is a transposition of the history of Julius Caesar it cannot have been invented more than a century later by Titus. It can have been used by the Flavii, but for that it had to preexist, also the transposition. Not by chance the Gospel of Mark is convincingly earlier dated as the Jewish War.

Thank you for the information. I know that book, having read it in the German original: Caesar – Geschichte seines Ruhms, von Friedrich Gundolf, Berlin 1925. It is indeed an interesting overview about Caesar's image and reception during history.
Other books, in a different vein, which could be read as propaedeutics:
Taylor, L. R. (1931). The Divinity of the Roman Emperor, Middletown.
Weinstock, S. (1971). Divus Julius. Oxford.

We know about Stefan Weinstock Divus Julius, in fact I've read it but I don't think we know about Taylor, L. R. (1931). The Divinity of the Roman Emperor?

I did some googling to see if it can be read on-line or downloaded and found it here http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015020814813;view=1up;seq=1

I also came across while searching for the above book a journal, Roman Influence on the Birth of Christianity By Barry Benning

Rome’s influence on the birth of Christianity is unmistakable, more so than many might
realize. Rome’s influence is clearly illustrated in two categories; the commonality with Roman
culture and cults as it existed prior to Christianity, and the evidence that can be seen in a realistic
and historical perspective of the early Christian writings. The discussion to follow proposes a
new theory on the origins of Christianity. Was Christianity born of human conflict, the conflict
between the imperialism of the Roman Empire and the self-perceived entitlement of the ancient
Jewish culture, resulting in Roman attempts at manipulation of religious forces in Judea?

Commonality with Pre-existing Roman Culture and Cults

In Volume II of the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament1
on page 724 in a
discussion of the Greek term, evangelion, the editors make the following statement regarding the
ruler of the Roman Empire:

The ruler is divine by nature.2
His power extends to men, to animals, to the earth
and to the sea. Nature belongs to him; wind and waves are subject to him.3
He
works miracles and heals men.4
He is the saviour of the world who also redeems
individuals from their difficulties. He has appeared on earth as a deity in human
form.5


This is a powerful and far-reaching statement that encompasses a great deal of classical
literature, far more than References 2 through 5 above. For a thorough discussion and listing of
appropriate classical references, see a book by Lily Ross Taylor entitled The Divinity of the
Roman Emperor.
6

The mythology of divinity began with the founding of Rome (attributed to the date 753
BCE). The Roman historian, Livy (59 BCE – 17 ACE), acknowledges in The Early History of
Rome, I.37
the myth concerning the founders of Rome, the brothers Romulus and Remus, as
having been born of a Vestal Virgin, Sylvia, with the god, Mars, as their father. Livy refers to
“Romulus, the son of a god and himself divine.”8
The Greek historian, Plutarch, wrote:

For it is said that their [Romulus’ and Remus’] mother [Sylvia] conceived by a
God. It is reported concerning the begetting of Romulus, that the sun was
eclipsed at the time as the immortal God Mars was with the mortal Sylvia. The
same is said to have happened about the time of his death… the sun was under an
eclipse.9


This sets precedence to Christianity in terms of human divinity, virgin birth, and divine
conception. These concepts were by no means unique or original to Roman culture (Egypt and
Greece come to mind), but Rome was in control of Judea during the birth of Christianity,
granting it preference. With regard to the solar eclipse (a relatively rare natural event), the New
Testament also speaks of an eclipse of the sun upon Christ’s death.10 Livy acknowledges other
possible explanations for Sylvia’s placement in history, but clearly the mythology existed..................................

http://www.barrybenning.com/roman_influence.pdf

 

[dantem]

Cool! Let me know when there's something to be proofread. Gaby, do you already have some of it translated?

Yeap, but you'll have to give me until the end of this week when I have more time. I prefer to finish the chapter first and revise it. I'm getting used to the style: there are hardly any sentences (he uses commas a lot) and there are no paragraphs. Only a few days ago I learned how to distinguish a statement about Caesar from someone else's. Yes, literary techniques!

FWIW, here is a good and most handy Italian-Italian dictionary : _http://www.grandidizionari.it/

After analyzing a bunch of chapters I was thinking it was better to have a translation done in current Italian, like this one by Giacinto Namia:

_http://www.lelettere.it/site/e_Product.asp?IdCategoria=&TS02_ID=1776

Just have a look at the pdf extract:

_http://lelettere.it/Data/Files/HtmlEditor_Files/Image/Estratti_pdf/1122illustribus3.pdf

And notice the differences. I'm a bit rusty on that old style! I'll better re-read some High School books with those vulgar translations, or get that 'modernized' book in any way for a final check. There are a few sentences here and there that are quite hard to reconstruct - time consuming at best.

..I've skipped one of your reply Gaby! Yeah, that old style Italian is really un-google-traducible!

 

[dantem]

Like I said, I ordered the book - Italian, Latin, dunno - and when it arrives, I can scan ONLY the text wanted unless someone finds exactly that on the net somewhere.

Hi Laura,

can you recall its title or at least who did it? I mean, the translation/edition was made by..?

I'd like to check if it's another old style edition or a modernized one. I suppose it would make a big difference judging by what I'm reading here!

 

[Gaby]

After analyzing a bunch of chapters I was thinking it was better to have a translation done in current Italian, like this one by Giacinto Namia:

_http://www.lelettere.it/site/e_Product.asp?IdCategoria=&TS02_ID=1776

Just have a look at the pdf extract:

_http://lelettere.it/Data/Files/HtmlEditor_Files/Image/Estratti_pdf/1122illustribus3.pdf

And notice the differences. I'm a bit rusty on that old style! I'll better re-read some High School books with those vulgar translations, or get that 'modernized' book in any way for a final check. There are a few sentences here and there that are quite hard to reconstruct - time consuming at best.

..I've skipped one of your reply Gaby! Yeah, that old style Italian is really un-google-traducible!

That version is friendlier, yes. I like it! I'm translating from my multilingual familiarity with Italian, Spanish, French and Catalan... it is not exactly because I know Italian! The verb constructions are something that is commonly used in Spanish, but I've never heard an Italian person using them.

A couple of excerpts:

Chapter XXVII

of civilian battles which contends how Caesar,
having ordered Spain, returned to Rome, and his
triumphs, and how this ordered the Republic,
and ultimately his death.

[...] He triumphed four times, according to most authors, but according to other more reliable ones, five times. The first was the triumph of Gaul and England, and this was far more famous than others, the second was in Egypt, the third Pharnaces and Pontus, the fourth Juba and Africa, the fifth Spain. I would add to these the sixth, namely that of Marseilles, if not perhaps that this triumph is contained under that one of Gaul. But there is no doubt to anyone who has read that harsh lament of Cicero in the Uficii book where he speaks of Caesar, that he triumphed in Marseilles. [...]

[Caesar] found conspiracies against him and he would not punish them, but gave it to be understood that he knew about them. To some who spoke ill of him, he commanded them not to say those things anymore. He ordered for Sulla’s and Pompey’s statues to be repaired, which were taken away by the people, and he did not tolerated that his benevolence would harm dead enemies which didn’t harmed him while living. Finally, he forgave to every single man every single insult; and it is clear that none of his enemies perished, if not fighting, if not Aphranius, so it is said, and Faustus Sulla and Lucius Caesar the young. Although the first two, having received forgiveness once, decided to rebel, and those who were present in that affair wrote about the death of those. And the third one had put cruelly to death either with iron or fire, Caesar’s servants and family. And even if they do not say that these people died due to his commandment or will, there are those who confirm that these people died after victory. And having forgiven particularly those who asked pardon, he ultimately forgave all of those who didn’t even ask for it, and he gave them permission to return to Italy, and he opened the closed road from war to honors and authority, showing with words and facts –which don’t lie; that after the war he had no enemy. From whom even though Cicero spoke ill after his death, something that I read against my will, yet he [Cicero] had said earlier this way: We have seen thy victory ended with the end of the battles, and we have not seen in Rome the knife out of the sheath. Those citizens, that we have lost, the strength of the battle have taken them away from us, and not the wrath of victory, so that none should doubt, that Caesar would reduce many from hell, if possible, because from that same people he kept those of whom he disliked. Since it seemed that surely he could be offended, but instead he forgave everything to every man and made no revenge.

And I took the liberty here to put in sentences what was explained using comma all the time.

I'm mostly concerned about who said something and what is the "sentence" referring to. Then, I realized that "ello" refers to Caesar on all occasions, minus a few exceptions.

If there is a modern Italian version, that would most likely speed up the proofreading process.

 

[Laura]

Meanwhile, this is the version I'm going to be getting:

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/8860870208/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Don't know when it will arrive.

 

[Mal7]

Meanwhile, this is the version I'm going to be getting:

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/8860870208/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The life of Caesar might not be in that volume. The 490 page volume seems to be Volume One only of four volumes of "De Viris Illustribus", with 23 lives only, while Volume Three has "De Gestis Cesaris".

_http://www.worldcat.org/title/de-viris-illustribus/oclc/156780172

An Italian bookseller has this description of it:

Casa Ed.Le Lettere, Firenze, 2006. br. Traduzione di Silvano Ferrone. Dopo oltre sei secoli, esce la prima traduzione italiana, col testo latino a fronte, del capolavoro di Francesco Petrarca, De viris illustribus, nel tomo III delle Opere di Francesco Petrarca, a cura della Commissione per l'Edizione Nazionale delle Opere di Francesco Petrarca. Iniziata a Valchiusa forse prima del 1338, l'opera fu composta quasi contemporaneamente all'Africa; ripresa dopo l'incoronazione poetica, fu rivista più volte da Petrarca e infine lasciata in forme diverse. Qui se ne pubblica la parte più cospicua (I) che nei manoscritti va sotto il nome di Quorundam illustrium virorum et clarissimorum heroum epithoma. Essa contiene un Prohemium scritto per Francesco da Carrara, signore di Padova, e 23 vite di grandi uomini (dai primi re di Roma ai più famosi condottieri come Pirro, Annibale e Alessandro il Macedone). Campeggia su tutte la vita di Scipione l'Africano. La traduzione di Silvano Ferrone è condotta senza mai discostarsi dall'originale latino del testo stabilito da G. Martellotti (1964), costituendone un valido supporto critico; il curatore ha rivisto in alcuni punti testo e ortografia, e ne ha ritoccato talora la scansione in paragrafi; di tutto egli rende ragione nell'Introduzione, ove ricostruisce il complesso piano dell'opera. Leggere questo capolavoro significa addentrarsi nel metodo storico di Petrarca, ammirando da vicino le radici dell'Umanesimo. Ad ogni pagina Petrarca non tralascia di esprimere un giudizio o sui fatti o sui personaggi o sulle fonti che egli utilizza. Modello ai primi umanisti e agli storici successivi, non ultimo il Machiavelli dei Discorsi sopra la prima deca di Tito Livio, Petrarca non si stanca mai di segnalare come i fatti della vita politica romana e le gesta degli eroi siano compiuti nel rispetto delle istituzioni e della volontà del popolo e del senato romano. cm.16x23, pp.490, Coll.Edizione Nazionale delle Opere di Francesco Petrarca.

- _http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=petrarca&bi=0&bx=off&ds=30&kn=ferrone&recentlyadded=all&sortby=17&tn=illustribus&x=0&y=0

Google Translate version:

House Ed.Le Letters , Florence, 2006. br . Translation of Silvano Ferrone . After more than six centuries , comes the first Italian translation , with facing Latin text , the masterpiece by Francesco Petrarch, De viris illustribus in Volume III of the Works of Francesco Petrarca, by the Commission for the National Edition of the Works of Francesco Petrarca . Begun in Vaucluse perhaps before 1338 , the opera was composed almost simultaneously to Africa; recovery after the coronation of poetry, was revised several times by Petrarch, and finally left in different forms. Here it publishes the most significant part (I) in the manuscripts that goes by the name of Quorundam illustrium virorum et clarissimorum heroum epithoma . It contains a Prohemium written by Francesco da Carrara, lord of Padua , and 23 lives of great men ( the first king of Rome to the most famous leaders like Pyrrhus, Hannibal and Alexander the Great ) . Stands on all the life of Scipio Africanus . The translation is carried out by Silvano Ferrone never depart from the original Latin text established by G. Martellotti (1964) , constituting a valuable critical support , the curator has revised text and spelling in some places , and has sometimes retouched scanning paragraphs , he makes everything right in the Introduction , where reconstructs the complex plan of the work. Read this masterpiece is to enter into the historical method of Petrarch, watching closely the roots of humanism . For each page Petrarch does not omit to express an opinion or the facts or the characters or the sources he uses . Model for the early humanists and historians that followed, not least the Machiavelli of the Discourses on Livy , Petrarch never gets tired of report as the facts of Roman political life and deeds of the heroes are made ​​in respect of the institutions and will of the people and of the Roman Senate . cm.16x23 , pp.490 , Coll.Edizione National Works of Francesco Petrarca.

 

[Mal7]

Volume Three - De Gestis Cesaris is here:

_http://www.amazon.fr/De-viris-illustribus-vol-Cesaris/dp/8860870224/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1390913572&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=gestis+cesaris

 

[Laura]

Volume Three - De Gestis Cesaris is here:

_http://www.amazon.fr/De-viris-illustribus-vol-Cesaris/dp/8860870224/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1390913572&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=gestis+cesaris

Oy. Okay, it's mine and I guess I'll keep both. Never know when I might wake up speaking Italian!

 

[Laura]

Here's an interesting thing I thought I would note down as it happened. Don't know where it might lead, but it IS interesting.

Atriedes came to announce a thought he had earlier: that Caesar was also the model for the story of Arthur. I told him I'd thought of that already, which I had in passing, while reading "The Mantle of Caesar".

What is interesting is that just before he came in to propose this idea, I had just been reading about two of the earliest Latin grammarians, C. Octavius Lampadio and Q. Vargunteius. They did scholarly work on the even earlier works of the earliest known Latin writers, Naevius and Ennius.

Well, "Ennius" was in my head, and when Atriedes mentioned "Arthur", my mind immediately connected to "Nennius."

First, Ennius:

Quintus Ennius (/ˈkwɪntəs ˈɛniəs/; c. 239 BC – c. 169 BC) was a writer during the period of the Roman Republic, and is often considered the father of Roman poetry. He was of Calabrian descent. ...

Ennius was born at Rudiae, an old Italian (predominantly Oscan)[2] town historically founded by the Messapians. Here Oscan, Greek, and Latin languages were in contact with one another; according to Aulus Gellius 17.17.1, Ennius referred to this heritage by saying he had "three hearts" (Quintus Ennius tria corda habere sese dicebat, quod loqui Graece et Osce et Latine sciret).

Ennius continued the nascent literary tradition by writing praetextae, tragedies, and palliatae, as well as his most famous work, a historic epic called the Annales. Other minor works...

The Epicharmus presented an account of the gods and the physical operations of the universe. In it, the poet dreamed he had been transported after death to some place of heavenly enlightenment.

The Euhemerus presented a theological doctrine of a vastly different type in a mock-simple prose style modelled on the Greek of Euhemerus of Messene and several other theological writers. According to this doctrine, the gods of Olympus were not supernatural powers still actively intervening in the affairs of men, but great generals, statesmen and inventors of olden times commemorated after death in extraordinary ways. ...

The Annales was an epic poem in fifteen books, later expanded to eighteen, covering Roman history from the fall of Troy in 1184 BC down to the censorship of Cato the Elder in 184 BC. It was the first Latin poem to adopt the dactylic hexameter metre used in Greek epic and didactic poetry, leading it to become the standard metre for these genres in Latin poetry. The Annals became a school text for Roman schoolchildren, eventually supplanted by Virgil's Aeneid. About 600 lines survive. A copy of the work is among the Latin rolls of the Herculaneum library.

Ennius was said to have considered himself a reincarnation of Homer.

Now, Nennius:

Nennius (also known as Nemnius or Nemnivus) was a Welsh monk of the 9th century. He has traditionally been attributed with the authorship of the Historia Brittonum, based on the prologue affixed to that work,[1] This attribution is widely considered a secondary (10th century) tradition...

Nennius was a student of Elvodugus, commonly identified with the bishop Elfodd who convinced British ecclesiastics to accept the Continental dating for Easter, and who died in 809 according to the Annales Cambriae.

Nennius is believed to have lived in the area made up by present day Brecknockshire and Radnorshire counties in Powys, Wales.[3] He lived outside the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, isolated by mountains in a rural society.[4] Because of the lack of evidence concerning the life of Nennius he has become the subject of legend himself. Welsh traditions include Nennius with Elbodug and others said to have escaped the massacre of Welsh monks by Ethelfrid in 613.[5] by fleeing to Scotland.

Nennius was traditionally credited with having written the Historia Brittonum c. 830.[6] The Historia Brittonum was highly influential, becoming a major contributor to the Arthurian legend. It also includes the legendary origins of the Picts, Scots, St. Germanus and Vortigern, and documents events associated with the Anglo-Saxon invasion of the 7th century as contributed by a Northumbrian document.

Evidence suggests that this medieval literature was a compilation of several sources, some of which are named by Nennius while others are not. Some experts say that this was not the first compiled history of the Britons and that it was largely based on Gildas' De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae written some two centuries before.[8] Most other sources have not survived and therefore cannot be confirmed. The surviving manuscripts of the Historia Brittonum appear to be redacted from several lost versions: information about Nennius contained in the Prologue and in the Apology differs, the Prologue containing an expanded form of the Apology that is only found in editions copied during the 12th century, leading experts to believe that later versions of the document were altered.[9] The largest known edition contains seventy-six sections including the Prologue and the Apology. The work was translated into Irish by Giolla Coemgin in c. 1071 and is the earliest example of the original Historia Britonum,[10] but includes the author’s name, Nennius.

Originally written as a history of the Britons in an attempt to document a legitimate past, the Historia Brittonum contains stories of legend and superstition alike.[12] The historical accuracy of the Historia Brittonum is at best questionable and serves more as historical fiction rather than a legitimate history of the Britons. Although, some historians argue that the Historia Brittonum gives good insight into the way 9th century Britons viewed themselves and their past.[13] Nennius makes several attempts to trace the history of the Britons back to the Romans and Celts through his empirical observations of what he refers to as "The Marvels" or "Wonders of Britain".[12] These include ruins, landmarks and other aspects of the British countryside that Nennius deems worthy of documentation. His explanation of the physical landmarks and ruins take on a very mystical interpretation despite Nennius being a Christian monk. Within the writing of Nennius is a sense of pseudo-nationalist pride attempting to legitimize the people of Britain and embellish the past through legend much as the Romans used the story of Romulus and Remus to legitimize the founding of Rome.[14] One such example of Nennius stressing legend is in his accounts of Arthur and his twelve battles. The Historia Brittonum would come to be the basis on which later medieval authors such as Geoffrey of Monmouth would write the romantic histories of King Arthur.

The next topic that came up was Atriedes pointing out that the "sword in the stone" thing could have come from the way swords were made in the Bronze age: they were poured into a hollow in a stone, and then removed and ground into proper shape. So, I tried to find out what kinds of swords the Romans used at the time of Caesar... not much luck, but then I typed in "sword of Caesar" and what did I find?

Crocea Mors

Crocea Mors (Latin for "Yellow Death") was the name given to Julius Caesar's sword, according to the legends presented by Geoffrey of Monmouth. In Middle Welsh versions, it is called Angau Coch ("Red Death") or Agheu Glas ("Grey Death").

The British prince Nennius acquired it when, during single combat with Caesar, it got stuck in his shield. It killed everyone Nennius struck with it. Nennius died fifteen days after the battle of a head wound inflicted by Caesar, and the sword was buried with him.

Here we find a "British prince Nennius"... who just HAPPENED to acquire the sword of Caesar. Hmmm...

According to Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain, a work of 1136 whose contents are now considered largely fictional, Nennius was a prince of Britain at the time of Julius Caesar's invasions of Britain (55–54 BC). In Middle Welsh versions of Geoffrey's Historia he was called Nynniaw.

The History gives the following account of Nennius's life: He was the third son of Heli and brother of Lud and Cassibelanus (and according to Welsh sources, of Llefelys). He fought alongside Cassibelanus when Caesar invaded. He and his nephew Androgeus, led the troops of Trinovantum (London) and Canterbury, encountered Caesar's own troops, and Nennius faced Caesar in single combat. Caesar struck Nennius a blow to the head, but his sword got stuck in Nennius's shield. After they separated in the melée, Nennius threw away his own sword and attacked the Romans with Caesar's sword, killing many, including the tribune Labienus. Fifteen days after the battle Nennius died of his head wound, and was buried at London, near the North Gate. Caesar's sword, named Crocea Mors ("Yellow Death"), was buried with him.

So, supposedly, Caesar's sword got STUCK in Nennius shield, but he was obviously able to REMOVE it and use it.

Let's take a quick look at the Annales Cambriae:

Annales Cambriae (Latin for The Annals of Wales) is the name given to a complex of Cambro-Latin chronicles compiled or derived from diverse sources at St David's in Dyfed, Wales. The earliest is a 12th-century presumed copy of mid-10th century original; later editions were compiled in the 13th century. Despite the name, the Annales Cambriae record not only events in Wales, but also events in Ireland, Cornwall, England, Scotland and sometimes further afield, though the focus of the events recorded especially in the later two-thirds of the text is Wales.

There are two entries in the Annales on King Arthur, one on Medraut (Mordred), and one on Merlin. These entries have been presented in the past as proof of the existence of Arthur and Merlin,[2] although that view is no longer widely held given that the entries could have been added arbitrarily as late as 970, long after the development of the early Arthurian myth.

The entries on Arthur, Mordred, and Merlin in the A Text:

Year 72 (c. AD 516) The Battle of Badon, in which Arthur carried the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ on his shoulders for three days and three nights and the Britons were victors.
Year 93 (c. 537) The Strife of Camlann in which Arthur and Mordred fell and there was death in Britain and in Ireland.
Year 129 (c. 573) The Battle of Armterid

Texts B & C omit the second half of the year 93 entry. B calls Arfderydd "Erderit"; C, "Arderit". In the B Text, the year 129 entry continues: "between the sons of Elifer and Guendoleu son of Keidau in which battle Guendoleu fell and Merlin went mad.

Concerning Arthur's cross at the Battle of Badon, it is mirrored by a passage in Nennius where Arthur was said to have borne the image of the Virgin Mary "on his shoulders" during a battle at a castle called Guinnion.[3] The words for "shoulder" and "shield" were, however, easily confused in Old Welsh – *scuit "shield" versus *scuid "shoulder" [3] – and Geoffrey of Monmouth played upon this dual tradition, describing Arthur bearing "on his shoulders a shield" emblazoned with the Virgin.[4]

What to make of it?

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

I'm 217 pages into Gundolf's Mantle of Caesar, fascinating read and superbly researched especially considering when it was written!

I decided to contact Francesco Carotta recommending the book in case he hadn't read it and mentioned this forum along with Laura's excellent research.

He replied with.

Interesting forum[...]

Is good to know that Carotta read the forum. I hope he stays in tune, because will come much more interesting things.

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

As noted, Clodius was ALSO captured by pirates and had an almost parallel experience to Caesar's. I wonder if Caesar actually had that experience or was there some conflation of Clodius and Caesar and Tiberius Gracchus AFTER the fact? Can't forget Saturninus and Drusus, either. There was this collection of men during that particular period that were all contributing something to the mythos, I believe. Caesar himself, contributed the most and the definitive "life story sequence" to which other things from the other characters were then added. And Caesar, of course, "rose from the dead" before the eyes of all as a comet.

As a man, Caesar was a son of the gods. In death, he became a god along with the other gods, and Octavian then became the "son of god." And of course, after Octavian no longer needed his "father", as a man, to inspire the loyalty of the soldiers, he began to suppress Caesar the man, and emphasize only Divus Julius, and himself, as the representative on earth, Divus Filius. That's the origin of the "son of god" thing about Jesus. Later, the Flavians wished to assimilate the "son of god" thing to themselves and sort of suppress or disconnect it from the Julio-Claudian line AND deal with the fact that many of the worshippers of Caesar the man-god, were rather rebellious toward the new imperial rule and its oligarchy, following the example of their hero. (That's what being a god was all about then: only heroes became gods or had life after death.) So, some work had to be done, and the Flavians set about doing it quite craftily, creating the new religion with all the pieces to hand about Caesar, setting themselves up as inheritors of the godly rights, producing edited and newly created texts that were sanitized and geared toward promising the common man who, up to this time, had no hope of life after death (not being a heroic figure), exactly that, as long as they were peaceful, turned the other cheek, obeyed the emperor and "rendered unto Caesar the things that were Caesar's. And keep in mind that this did not necessarily mean Julius Caesar in that saying because the emperors after Augustus referred to themselves as Caesar, curiously, until Hadrian, I believe, who took the cognomen, Augustus.

To get a real flavor of the times of Augustus, read Syme's "The Roman Revolution". And then, read Tacitus works in their entirety (what has survived.) If that doesn't raise the hair on your head with the comparisons to our own day, nothing will!

There are still problems to deal with, but I expect them to sort themselves out as I assemble the material chronologically and get all the portents and prodigies inserted in the right places. The pattern will reveal itself. Right now, there are just a bunch of startling episodes that have emerged with some clarity and they need to be strung together like pearls on a string so as to see the cosmic design.

Thank you very much, Laura, for sharing with all these creative efforts. Really don't know how you can make the amount of things you do and still connect the dots in this labyrinths of ​​information and disinfo.
I'm still reading the texts attached. This is so fascinating and sad at the same time (or times)...but it's worth knowing our reality.

 

[Alvalsen]

I remember that at some sessions С interpreted Apocalypse
it says that Jesus will come to teach others something

I understand that Jesus-Caesar serving others
Why engage in the wars? (or is not it?)

 

[Oxajil]

The ones I can get are:

Codices Latini Antiquiores – January 1, 1982
by E. A. Lowe

Only one I could find is:

Codices Latini antiquiores : a palaeographical guide to Latin manuscripts prior to the ninth century
Loew, E.A. 1879-1969

Others (but by Klaus Gamber):

Codices liturgici Latini antiquiores
Gamber, Klaus 1919-

Codices liturgici latini antiquiores/supplementum: Ergänzungs- und Registerband
Gamber, Klaus 1919- ;Baroffio, B.
1988

(Classical Influences on European Culture A.D. 500-1500
R. R. Bolgar)

Books known to Anglo-Latin writers from Aldhelm to Alcuin (670-804) (The Mediaeval Academy of America. Studies and documents) Unknown Binding
by J. D. A Ogilvy

Visigothic Spain: New Approaches [Anglais] [Relié]
Edward James (Sous la direction de)

Medieval European Coinage: Volume 1, The Early Middle Ages (5th-10th Centuries) [Anglais] [Broché]
Philip Grierson (Auteur), Mark Blackburn

Dawn of the Written Vernacular in Western Europe [Broché]
M. Goyens (Sous la direction de), W. Verbeke (Sous la direction de), Mich Le Goyens (Sous la direction de)

 

[Laura]

Thanks, Bear. If they are on amazon anywhere and REASONABLE, I can get them!