Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

Shijing said:
King Arthur, the Myth
by David Nash Ford

Some people believe that King Arthur is so inextricably tied up in Celtic Mythology that he must, in origin, have been, not a man at all, but a god.
Like so many other characters featured in the Mabinogion, Arthur in his earliest form, appears almost entirely mythical. He and his companions have superhuman strength and abilities, and consort with giants and other mythological creatures. 
In the early Welsh poem "Preiddeu Annwfn", Arthur visits the Celtic Underworld, Annwfn, and his adventures closely parallel those of the cauldron-seeking god, Bran the Blessed. Even in Geoffrey of Monmouth's "History of the Kings of Britain," and Sir Thomas Malory's "Le Morte D'Arthur," upon being fatally wounded in battle, Arthur is carried to the mystical Avalon, apparently the Underworld home of the Celtic god, Afallach. Many legends around the country attest to Arthur's immortality. He is said to be sleeping in one of numerous caves waiting to return and lead his people.

Although I would naturally like to have Arthur be some kind of bear worship or some such... :D the above bold stood out to me because it made me think of Caesar in relation to Mithraism and mithraea (caves) that I’m pretty sure it was this thread where Caesar is discussed in some way with Mithraism. My thinking goes as such in terms of Caesar being Arthur (just thoughts) - Caesar is linked with Mithraism - then is murdered and is worshipped in some fashion by his soldiers, etc who also followed Mithraism - which is spread to England by Roman soldiers later when they invade and have a stronghold there – Caesar is remembered by the locals as the person who invaded before and must have caused a big stir when he did – the locals are told by Roman soldiers, etc about Caesar being equated with being a god (immortality from above) and possibly the comet at his death (if I remember correctly) – this then gets passed down among the locals that eventually becomes the Arthur legend, etc. Just thinking out loud.

I'll have to look at this Celtic god, Afallach and see if there is any connection to comets in some way.
 
The spear of Longinus also comes up in Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur:
CHAPTER XV. How Balin fought with King Pellam, and how his sword brake, and how he gat a spear wherewith he smote the dolorous stroke.

ANON all the knights arose from the table for to set on Balin, and King Pellam himself arose up fiercely, and said, Knight, hast thou slain my brother? thou shalt die therefore or thou depart. Well, said Balin, do it yourself. Yes, said King Pellam, there shall no man have ado with thee but myself, for the love of my brother. Then King Pellam caught in his hand a grim weapon and smote eagerly at Balin; but Balin put the sword betwixt his head and the stroke, and therewith his sword burst in sunder. And when Balin was weaponless he ran into a chamber for to seek some weapon, and so from chamber to chamber, and no weapon he could find, and always King Pellam after him. And at the last he entered into a chamber that was marvellously well dight and richly, and a bed arrayed with cloth of gold, the richest that might be thought, and one lying therein, and thereby stood a table of clean gold with four pillars of silver that bare up the table, and upon the table stood a marvellous spear strangely wrought. And when Balin saw that spear, he gat it in his hand and turned him to King Pellam, and smote him passingly sore with that spear, that King Pellam fell down in a swoon, and therewith the castle roof and walls brake and fell to the earth, and Balin fell down so that he might not stir foot nor hand. And so the most part of the castle, that was fallen down through that dolorous stroke, lay upon Pellam and Balin three days.

CHAPTER XVI. How Balin was delivered by Merlin, and saved a knight that would have slain himself for love.

THEN Merlin came thither and took up Balin, and gat him a good horse, for his was dead, and bade him ride out of that country. I would have my damosel, said Balin. Lo, said Merlin, where she lieth dead. And King Pellam lay so, many years sore wounded, and might never be whole till Galahad the haut prince healed him in the quest of the Sangreal, for in that place was part of the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, that Joseph of Arimathea brought into this land, and there himself lay in that rich bed. And that was the same spear that Longius smote our Lord to the heart; and King Pellam was nigh of Joseph's kin, and that was the most worshipful man that lived in those days, and great pity it was of his hurt, for through that stroke, turned to great dole, tray and tene. Then departed Balin from Merlin, and said, In this world we meet never no more. So he rode forth through the fair countries and cities, and found the people dead, slain on every side. And all that were alive cried, O Balin, thou hast caused great damage in these countries; for the dolorous stroke thou gavest unto King Pellam three countries are destroyed, and doubt not but the vengeance will fall on thee at the last. When Balin was past those countries he was passing fain.
- _http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1251/1251-h/1251-h.htm#link2HCH0042
 
Iron said:
The is no pricing information on the link Laura provided.

That's the Kindle edition. It's there on paperback though, £6.11 in UK - http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Valerius%20Antias%20and%20Caesar%20%5BKindle%20Edition%5D
 
For those interested, "The Last Legion" can be watched online here [mod: removed link]
 
Eboard10 said:
Laura said:
I couldn't attach a book to the post - too big.

Would it be at all possible to send it via email?

Yes, send me a PM with an email addy that will accept a large file. Anyone else who wants some of the interesting books on this topic that I may have, send me a PM with a viable addy and I'll send them.
 
SeekinTruth said:
The other thing that dawned on me earlier today from reading Meager1's last post is that so much of the names/titles, traditions, politico-religious and economic structures, etc. seem to have come from the whole worship of Augustus thing (still have to read that book), not just Julius Caesar. The whole Christianity shtick is totally a rehashed scam of a rehashed scam after the assassination of Caesar. Just mind boggling.
Yes, It's like what is already common knowledge, that the biblical Jesus has many similarities with other gods like Mithras, Dionysus, Horus , Krishna, Attis, etc. Well, apparently that began with Augustus stealing from Caesar more than any other, but also from Alexander, and other gods and heros. Then it is possible that much of the work of the Flavian gang has been twisting and manipulating to further their own agenda, following that conglomerate performed by Augustus for his worship. I remember in high school history class had told us that the Egyptians worshiped Augustus as a savior and a god, because after the conquest lowered taxes, with which Antony enslaved them. But perhaps that was part of a population control framed within policy of calm the people by the elite, and also deifying the emperor. (Seems that most of the examples of forgiveness of debts and lower or cancel taxes, was when the elite was cornered by the violence of the masses, and then they had to yield, if only for a while. Another case would be when, also in Egypt, Muslims allowed people not paying taxes, but first must converting to Islam).
Something I do not understand about the Flavians And Josephus is the following: They are doing all these historical manipulations to dominate a province, the rebel Palestine, correct? So, it would be "early" for that Roman elite wanted to move there? I mean, that stories just work to divide the Jews. So, how that narrative ends up returning to Europe again? I mean, it may be that Flavians manipulations were smaller and only circumscribed to manipulate certain peoples and then, decades later with disasters, the elite no longer anchored in Rome, need to be Christian, and begin to expand the narrative (and continue conquering peoples, now with religion)?. That makes some sense or is noise?.
 
Laura said:
What I think we need is an online form thing where we can start combing through the ancient texts and finding certain types of data and entering it according to the year that has been assigned to it. We could have a column for dates, and several columns for the kinds of events that we are looking for and then could produce graphs of them that we might try to match to ice core spikes or something. But it would take a number of people to get everything covered.

I split the discussion related to this into here:

Historical Events Database
 
While doing preparatory research around the works of Flavius Josephus for the Historical Events Database, I ran into a neat little tidbit about Jewish pirates here. It's of no real significance in the grander scheme of things I think, but in the context of earlier held discussions would've been a loss if not salvaged here:

http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_pirates/pirates.html said:
Jewish Pirates

Jewish pirates: poorly known group of buccaneers, active in the early first century BCE.

The ancient Jews were not known for their qualities as sailors. This is not surprising, because Jerusalem is at some distance from the sea, and the Jews were never really interested in the coast of Judaea. It was only after the Hasmonaean high priest Simon (142-134) had added Jaffa to his dominions that the Jews possessed a port of their own. Simon's son and successor John Hyrcanus (134-104) took Ashdod, and king Alexander Jannaeus added Gaza and Strato's Tower (later called Caesaraea). The hellenized population of these towns was usually loyal to the Hasmonaean state, and not a few of them accepted Judaism. In this way, a small group of Jewish sailors came into being.

At this time, the eastern Mediterranean sea was infested with pirates from Crete and Cilicia. The powerful Seleucid empire had by now disintegrated and no longer controlled the seas. Moreover, the Roman elite needed slaves to work on the large plantations (latifundia) in Italy. Pirates could always sell their captives to the Romans. This situation continued until 67/66, when the Roman general Pompey the Great pacified Cilicia and reorganized the eastern part of the Roman world.

There are only two ancient texts that mention the activities of Jewish pirates - and one of them is of a rather doubtful value. This is a remark by Pompeius Trogus, whose History was excerpted by one Justin. He tells us that Pompey decided to add the last remains of the Seleucid empire to the Roman empire because the last king had been unable "to prevent the raids of the Jews and Arabs" (Epitome of the History by Pompeius Trogus 40.2). Although these words prove that the Jews were considered to be robbers, there is no proof that Pompey was thinking of piracy.

The second text is stronger evidence. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus writes in his Jewish Antiquities that in 63 BCE, two Jewish leaders, Hyrcanus and Aristobulus, arrived at Damascus, where each of them explained to Pompey why he, and not the other one, should be made king of the Jews. During this debate, Hyrcanus accused Aristobulus of organizing "piracy at sea" (Jewish Antiquities 14.43). Josephus' source is Nicolaus of Damascus, the secretary of king Herod the Great and a reliable source.

All in all, we must admit that the evidence for the existence and activities of Jewish pirates is frustratingly meager, but on the other hand, we have enough evidence to be certain that these odd Jews once existed.

� Jona Lendering for Livius.Org, 2002. Revision: 22 Feb. 2011
 
I didn't have a chance and then forgot to mention that I finished reading the QFG translation of Zohren's "Valerius Antias and Caesar" a couple of days ago. Just wanted to say it was excellent. Not only Zohren's thesis, but the editing and additional information and translation of Latin and Greek texts, and additional footnotes, etc. Lay people could really understand what was being proposed, follow the argument clearly, and see how highly likely it is the the culprit of the original falsification has been identified. Great job on this project, as usual!
 
Gaby said:
I'll continue with Chapter 1 and go chronologically if that is okay.

Attached, Chapter 1 - Petrarch on Caesar

Gaius Julius Caesar (44 BC)

Of things made by him in Gaul, and first about his nation,
and how he was taken by corsairs, and how he recomposed,
and made them die afterwards.
 

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