Was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ?

[Oxajil]

Meanwhile, SOTT now also carries the story (from The Guardian, UK):

http://www.sott.net/article/308444-Julius-Caesar-battlefield-unearthed-in-southern-Netherlands

Somebody needs to add comments to truthify it. Maybe Oxajil's text?

I added Oxajil's post as a comment.

Thank you Heimdallr!

Thanks for spelling this out, Oxajil.

I agree with you that the Dutch news coverage didn't take neither time nor trouble to get to the available sources and verify the exact state of affairs around this alleged massacre, and opted for the easy way out by resorting to ladling out the preconceived notions which are common to Caesar's image.

Yeah, reading the Dutch articles you posted I noticed there is a clear bias coming from the author and those Dutch historians. They just claim they have been 'massacred', but do not offer a context or explanation.

Alrighty, so I got to reread the part about Virgil today. Unfortunately Giovanni didn't mention what Virgil had to say about Caesar, but there are other things that might be interesting. So, Giovanni writes that Caesar was an Incarnation or Vision of the coming Christ, and described Virgil as a Prophet who announced the coming Christ.

In Ecologues IV, Virgil wrote:

Now has come the final age that was sung of at Cumae.
The mighty march of the centuries begins anew.
Now the Virgin comes again, Saturn's kingdom comes again.
Now is a race of men sent down from heaven on high.
And as the boy is born who will end at last
The iron age, and bring the world the age of gold,
Bless him, chaste Lucina.

Giovanni writes that in the first centuries, Christians believed that the prediction in the Ecologues referred to Jesus.

Giovanni adds:

[Let us] remind ourselves of what Pluto said about poets: "[They have] many and great things to say, without knowing what they're saying" and [let us] consider that Virgil, made worthy by his Christian chastity and gentleness in his poetic enthusiasm, had a premonition of the solemn event that would take place forty years later in the stable at Bethlehem.

He then goes on to talk about Virgil's poem Aeneid, he writes it is almost a theological poem, more so than a heroic poem. Aeneas is a priestly hero, who received heavenly orders to bring the gods from the East to Rome. His poems appeared to have clear Christian accents and elements (as remarked by Boissier). G. then mentions author Alessandro Chiappelli who found interesting similarities between the Aeneid and the Acts of the Apostles, between the fates of Aeneas, who came from the East with his Gods, to establish the fate of Rome and St. Paul, who came from the East with his crucified God, to found the new Christian Rome. They are not mere vague similarities on the same trip, but continuing and astounding parallels, Giovanni writes. He continues to say that Virgil somehow prophetically predicted the travels of an Apostle (St. Paul) who brought the true God from Palestine to Rome.

He then goes on to describe Virgil's character, who like Caesar, was kind and giving. He quotes the words of Giussani:

Virgil was very good, optimus. A big softness of sentiment formed the basis of his character, [...] He was unable to cause harm to others and had so little jealousy that he was equally delighted about the triumphs of others. To his friends he was sincere, affable, always willing to help them. And one can safely say that all were friends of his, because all, except a complete wretch, could do nothing else but love him for his great gentleness and kindness.

Giovanni also mentions his death. Octavian, coming back from the East, found Virgil sick in Greece and wanted to take him to Rome. Having arrived in Brindisi, the illness got worse and the poet died, "just nineteen years before Jesus would be born". Before dying, he begged his friends to burn his main work - Aeneid - because he thought it was imperfect. His friends refused and spread Virgil's book after his death. Several decades later Jesus appeared in a vision to St. Paul and told him: "Be of good cheer, Paul: for as you have testified of me in Jerusalem, so must you bear witness also at Rome." (Acts 23:11) And so, he took to Rome.

Giovanni then writes about an old tradition that was kept in a hymn (which was sung until the end of the sixteenth century) that tells of how the Apostle (St. Paul) went to Naples to visit the grave of Virgil and at his grave wept while he said: "O! How I would have given [things] to You if I had met You while You were still alive, sacred poet!" Giovanni continues and ends with the following:

It may be that this [Paul visiting Virgil's grave] is a legend, but what is not a legend, but is a visible truth, is that St. Paul had repeatedly felt driven to Rome and that he only gives a full account of his teachings in the Epistle to the Romans and used more solemn words therein than in his other apostolic letters.

"Therefore, when I have finished this, and have put my seal on this fruit of theirs, I will go on by way of you to Spain. I know that when I come to you, I will come in the fullness of the blessing of Christ." (Romans 15:28-29; fwiw: He wrote this to the Romans.)

This word of the Apostle was not a vain word. The "fullness of the blessing of Christ" was indeed referring to the Empire, which was founded by Caesar and which was sung by Virgil, that Rome, which old poets, without really knowing what they were saying, called to be eternal and which became truly eternal by the will of the Eternal, that made of Rome the lofty home of his children.

Of that mystical Rome, through which the warm blood of Caesar flowed and which was glorified in divine verses by our greatest poets - by Virgil, the Mantuan and Dante, the Florentine - by the works of St. Paul and Peter, Christ has forever become a citizen and each one of us can imagine that the greatest promise of Beatrice also applied to him [Jesus]:

"Here shalt them be short time a forest-dweller, And thou shalt be with me for evermore A citizen of that Rome whereof Christ is Roman." (source)

All in all, pretty interesting that Virgil's work already had Christian elements in them, and the paralells between Aeneid and Paul's travels is also interesting!

I hope the above is understandable and helpful, apologies for any English errors.

 

[latulipenoire]

All in all, pretty interesting that Virgil's work already had Christian elements in them, and the paralells between Aeneid and Paul's travels is also interesting!

I hope the above is understandable and helpful, apologies for any English errors.

Pretty interesting indeed! Thank you very much for your research and for sharing, Oxajil!

 

[angelburst29]

A rare Coin bearing the image of Roman Emperor Augustus has been found in Galilee.

Hiker discovers extremely rare ancient gold coin (Photo)
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/209361#.VuaDJZsUWig

First Publish: 3/14/2016 - Coin bearing the image of Roman Emperor Augustus could date back to Bar Kochba rebellion; only one other such coin exists.

An Israeli woman hiking in the Galilee discovered an extremely rare, nearly 2,000-year-old gold coin - only the second such coin ever to be discovered.

The coin, dating back to the year 107 CE, bears the image of the Roman Emperor Augustus, and was unearthed by Laurie Rimon, a resident of Kibbutz Kfar Blum in northern Israel.

Rimon handed her extraordinary find to the Israel Antiquities Authority, and will be awarded a certificate of appreciation for good citizenship.

The only other such coin currently known to the world is located in the famous British Museum. According to the IAA, the coins were part of a series of nostalgic coins that Emperor Trajan minted and dedicated to the Roman emperors that ruled before him.

Rimon made the discovery when her group of hikers arrived at an archaeological site. Noticing something shining in the grass, Rimon picked up the object and quickly realized it was an ancient gold coin.

The group’s guide, Irit Zuk-Kovacsi contacted the Israel Antiquities Authority with the help of archaeologist and veteran tour guide Dr Motti Aviam, and within two hours an IAA representative joined the group of hikers in the field. Laurie turned the rare find over to him admitting, “It was not easy parting with the coin. After all, it is not every day one discovers such an amazing object, but I hope I will see it displayed in a museum in the near future."

Nir Distelfeld, an inspector with the IAA Unit for the Prevention of Antiquities Robbery, praised her for her "exemplary civic behavior by handing this important coin over to the Antiquities Authority.

"This is an extraordinarily remarkable and surprising discovery. I believe that soon, thanks to Laurie, the public will be able to enjoy this rare find."

Distelfeld encouraged others to act similarly.

"It is important to know that when you find an archaeological artifact it is advisable to call IAA representatives to the location spot in the field. That way we can also gather the relevant archaeological and contextual information from the site"

According to Dr. Danny Syon, a senior numismatist at the Israel Antiquities Authority, “This coin, minted in Rome in 107 CE, is rare on a global level.

"On the reverse we have the symbols of the Roman legions next to the name of the ruler Trajan, and on the obverse – instead of an image of the emperor Trajan, as was usually the case, there is the portrait of the emperor “Augustus Deified”. This coin is part of a series of coins minted by Trajan as a tribute to the emperors that preceded him."

The coin may date back to the famous Bar Kochba rebellion, according to Dr. Donald T. Ariel, head curator of the coin department at the Israel Antiquities Authority.

"The coin may reflect the presence of the Roman army in the region some 2,000 years ago – possibly in the context of activity against Bar Kochba supporters in the Galilee – but it is very difficult to determine that on the basis of a single coin.

"Historical sources describing the period note that some Roman soldiers were paid a high salary of three gold coins, the equivalent of 75 silver coins, each payday. Because of their high monetary value soldiers were unable to purchase goods in the market with gold coins, as the merchants could not provide change for them."

Similar bronze and silver coins with minted by Emperor Trajan have been previously discovered, Dr. Ariel added, but "his gold coins are extremely rare. So far, only two other gold coins of this emperor have been registered in the State Treasures, one from Givat Shaul near Jerusalem, and the other from the Qiryat Gat region and the details on both of them are different to those that appear on the rare coin that Laurie found."

 

[Heather]

... also, fellow forum member, Be, over in the Session 7 September 2013 thread, likewise discussed author Ralph Ellis' hypothesis of Saul/Paul = Josephus:

[...]

In addition, we have this from the transcript of SoTT Talk Radio Show #24 ("Who Was Jesus?):

[...]

Laura: ...oh, here's Atwill. Atwill writes a book called Caesar's Messiah - The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus ...well, he's got some points. The guy is real sick puppy, because...you know, he says some things that are absolutely outrageous, but he does notice some things that are very, very damn peculiar, which is [to say]: correspondences between the gospel stories, particularly between the Gospel of Matthew and the works of Josephus. So, it's almost as though, either somebody was writing this gospel based on Josephus, or Josephus, himself, was editing an already existing gospel, to make it say what the Flavians wanted it to say. The whole thing was, of course, you know, [just this]: you've got to get rid of Julius Caesar; you've gotta change the name; you gotta change the location; you've gotta change these battles, these miraculous battles that Caesar won by sheer, freaking force of will; you've gotta change them to miracles--I mean, you know, miracles...

I've just listened to a pretty interesting interview with this Atwill person on some other topics. I also notice he has a book titled "Shakespeare's Secret Messiah," which sounds quite interesting. So, my question is… well, I'm wondering if someone could characterize for me why Laura is calling him "a sick puppy," and maybe give an example of some of the things he said in his book on Caesar that are so outrageous -- just to help me get a clearer picture of him before possibly purchasing his books. Also, was Laura paraphrasing Atwill when she said "you've got to get rid of Julius Caesar" etc., as per above? In other words, I'm assuming that's his take on what the Flavians were thinking, something with which (I'm aware) Laura's work concurs.

Thanks in advance for clarifying.

Edit=Quote

 

[Voyageur]

... also, fellow forum member, Be, over in the Session 7 September 2013 thread, likewise discussed author Ralph Ellis' hypothesis of Saul/Paul = Josephus:

[...]

In addition, we have this from the transcript of SoTT Talk Radio Show #24 ("Who Was Jesus?):

[...]

Laura: ...oh, here's Atwill. Atwill writes a book called Caesar's Messiah - The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus ...well, he's got some points. The guy is real sick puppy, because...you know, he says some things that are absolutely outrageous, but he does notice some things that are very, very damn peculiar, which is [to say]: correspondences between the gospel stories, particularly between the Gospel of Matthew and the works of Josephus. So, it's almost as though, either somebody was writing this gospel based on Josephus, or Josephus, himself, was editing an already existing gospel, to make it say what the Flavians wanted it to say. The whole thing was, of course, you know, [just this]: you've got to get rid of Julius Caesar; you've gotta change the name; you gotta change the location; you've gotta change these battles, these miraculous battles that Caesar won by sheer, freaking force of will; you've gotta change them to miracles--I mean, you know, miracles...

I've just listened to a pretty interesting interview with this Atwill person on some other topics. I also notice he has a book titled "Shakespeare's Secret Messiah," which sounds quite interesting. So, my question is… well, I'm wondering if someone could characterize for me why Laura is calling him "a sick puppy," and maybe give an example of some of the things he said in his book on Caesar that are so outrageous -- just to help me get a clearer picture of him before possibly purchasing his books. Also, was Laura paraphrasing Atwill when she said "you've got to get rid of Julius Caesar" etc., as per above? In other words, I'm assuming that's his take on what the Flavians were thinking, something with which (I'm aware) Laura's work concurs.

Thanks in advance for clarifying.

Edit=Quote

Atwill recreates some interesting ideas, yet it is always tricky, especially with Flavius Josephus as things can get somewhat obscured. I would not want to comment directly on Laura's meanings, better for her to address. I could say though that in reading Atwill, one should also cross reference other works. For instance, I kind of leaned more to the following that you could read, if not already, 'Jesus Was Caesar: On the Julian Origin of Christianity' by Francesco Carotta, 'Et tu, Judas? Then Fall Jesus!' by Gary Courtney (very good, imo), and the very excellent book 'Valerius Antias and Caesar: Dissertation' by Carl Zohren, which sheds light on the various writings of certain people and their place in history - how history is inserted. There is also 'The Messiah before Jesus: The Suffering Servant of the Dead Sea Scrolls' by Israel Knohl. Each of these has been discussed in threads here, if remembered.

 

[Heather]

... also, fellow forum member, Be, over in the Session 7 September 2013 thread, likewise discussed author Ralph Ellis' hypothesis of Saul/Paul = Josephus:

[...]

In addition, we have this from the transcript of SoTT Talk Radio Show #24 ("Who Was Jesus?):

[...]

Laura: ...oh, here's Atwill. Atwill writes a book called Caesar's Messiah - The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus ...well, he's got some points. The guy is real sick puppy, because...you know, he says some things that are absolutely outrageous, but he does notice some things that are very, very damn peculiar, which is [to say]: correspondences between the gospel stories, particularly between the Gospel of Matthew and the works of Josephus. So, it's almost as though, either somebody was writing this gospel based on Josephus, or Josephus, himself, was editing an already existing gospel, to make it say what the Flavians wanted it to say. The whole thing was, of course, you know, [just this]: you've got to get rid of Julius Caesar; you've gotta change the name; you gotta change the location; you've gotta change these battles, these miraculous battles that Caesar won by sheer, freaking force of will; you've gotta change them to miracles--I mean, you know, miracles...

I've just listened to a pretty interesting interview with this Atwill person on some other topics. I also notice he has a book titled "Shakespeare's Secret Messiah," which sounds quite interesting. So, my question is… well, I'm wondering if someone could characterize for me why Laura is calling him "a sick puppy," and maybe give an example of some of the things he said in his book on Caesar that are so outrageous -- just to help me get a clearer picture of him before possibly purchasing his books. Also, was Laura paraphrasing Atwill when she said "you've got to get rid of Julius Caesar" etc., as per above? In other words, I'm assuming that's his take on what the Flavians were thinking, something with which (I'm aware) Laura's work concurs.

Thanks in advance for clarifying.

Edit=Quote

Atwill recreates some interesting ideas, yet it is always tricky, especially with Flavius Josephus as things can get somewhat obscured. I would not want to comment directly on Laura's meanings, better for her to address. I could say though that in reading Atwill, one should also cross reference other works. For instance, I kind of leaned more to the following that you could read, if not already, 'Jesus Was Caesar: On the Julian Origin of Christianity' by Francesco Carotta, 'Et tu, Judas? Then Fall Jesus!' by Gary Courtney (very good, imo), and the very excellent book 'Valerius Antias and Caesar: Dissertation' by Carl Zohren, which sheds light on the various writings of certain people and their place in history - how history is inserted. There is also 'The Messiah before Jesus: The Suffering Servant of the Dead Sea Scrolls' by Israel Knohl. Each of these has been discussed in threads here, if remembered.

Thanks, voyageur. I have the Carotta book, which I've only dipped into.. I've also got the Education of Julius Caesar by Arthur D. Kahn, which is on the order of biography.. I also wanted to get the Courtney book since I recall Laura giving it high praise.. maybe that one I'll get next. The others I've not heard of, so I'll add them to the list.

.. as for Atwill, maybe someone here has an idea what to watch out for with him. Shakespeare is of particular interest to me, and it's recommended that you read his book on Caesar first. And yet, I agree, he's not the first one I'd choose to get going on this whole topic.

.. given what I've read on Amazon, it seems that with Atwill the emphasis is on what those evil Romans did and how they invented Jesus to garner control, etc.. when, in listening to Laura et. al. discussing this in the two youtube offerings on this topic, the emphasis inevitably falls on Caesar, and how amazing a person he was. Also, Paul becomes something of a marvel as well once you understand (from Laura's very informed perspective) what he was up against, and the legacy that he saw as his mission to teach and preserve. From the comments I read on Atwill's book at Amazon, it seems he leaves out Paul entirely.

.. so.. it's interesting.. and it's maybe what gives "conspiracy theorists" a bad name sometimes.. since Atwill's focus seems far more negative, even if it adds some valuable scholarship to the topic overall.. whereas with Laura's seemingly more balanced observations there is something entirely exciting and redeeming to look at and think about -- not that that was her initial intention (which, as she discussed, kept shifting as her work moved along) but it's fascinating and somehow gratifying that that's what came of her efforts (!)

 

[Voyageur]

And yet, I agree, he's not the first one I'd choose to get going on this whole topic.

Just to reiterate, the prior book mentioned, Valerius Antias and Caesar: Dissertation' by Carl Zohren is very interesting as a primer, OSIT, cause it points out the oddities of language (words used), sequences and date references - who copied who and when. I also forgot to mention the book by Thomas Brodie, Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus, just in case you have not come across it. Brodie has lead an interesting life within the church; moving around the globe while having access to a great deal of writings, research and conferences etc. It's pretty detailed, yet one can appreciate his approach, cross referencing and hard study.

There are other form members who have very good insights into these books (and more) and who may be able to add contrast to this greater subject study.

 

[Heather]

And yet, I agree, he's not the first one I'd choose to get going on this whole topic.

Just to reiterate, the prior book mentioned, Valerius Antias and Caesar: Dissertation' by Carl Zohren is very interesting as a primer, OSIT, cause it points out the oddities of language (words used), sequences and date references - who copied who and when. I also forgot to mention the book by Thomas Brodie, Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus, just in case you have not come across it. Brodie has lead an interesting life within the church; moving around the globe while having access to a great deal of writings, research and conferences etc. It's pretty detailed, yet one can appreciate his approach, cross referencing and hard study.

There are other form members who have very good insights into these books (and more) and who may be able to add contrast to this greater subject study.

Thanks so much, voyageur. I'm keeping a list of all of these, and having your opinion is definitely useful.

.. I also finally got a hold of Laura's Comets and the Horns of Moses, which I've been meaning to read for a long time. I believe she mentions it as a lead up to her Caesar & related bible research so I thought it a good time to get it. I just read a bit of the beginning.. then skipped around a bit.. (just to see where things were heading). My God, it has quite a scope, it looks like. Amazing stuff. Anyway, I look forward to tackling all this material further.

.. on the subject of Atwill.. I just re-read my own comments above. I think what I meant by "negative" is.. well, it occurred to me that if you approach such work by making an effort to remain open minded (how Laura's approach sounds to be) as opposed to having some sort of agenda, then it may well be surprising what you come up with, as opposed to being predictable.. (just an observation).

Oh, also: there seems to be a different take on the militant sort of Jews whom Atwill sees as underdogs and Laura sees as comparable to present day Islamic fundamentalists. Either way, the Romans would have reason to subdue them. Still, it would be interesting to look into this further since these are quite different characterizations of the same phenomenon.

 

[Stellaria_graminea]

A highly interesting thread, including the symbolism of the cross. Choosing a symbol of death and placing it at the most central place in every(?) church is a bit repellent to me, so I like the possibilities of deeper meanings to this. Thus I started to ponder about it, based on the thoughts and citations in this thread.

When a person knows that written texts might easily be modified, choosing a symbol that points to central themes (or themes that might be deleted) seems smart. A widespread and visible symbol might survive much better.

An exterior meaning of death and resurrection might protect and contribute to spread it. Such an exterior message might also have an effect as a warning, as it engage negative emotions (image of death) and seems to represent something impossible (resurrection). It might invoke scepticism, totally (as 'scepticism' is often understood) or partly (consider the details). Thus, for some people, it might function as a both emotionally and cognitively mediated warning to not take all that is represented as truth.

But then there's the question of a potentially hidden meaning. If the receivers represents a multitude of backgrounds and social standing (maybe the original function of a cross for torture of slaves, mentioned in a citation above in the thread, might hint to that), thinking of their prior knowledge and what is visible to them is important. Prior knowledge might be themes from previous religions or world views, that is highlighted and not to be forgotten.

A common mode for the brain is thinking by associations (Kahnemans system 1). What kind of associations does a cross give, besides death? «Hanging on a tree» is mentioned in this thread. Hanging on a cross have similarities, but is not exactly the same. On the cross, the branches are crossed (obviously, I know). The crossing might symbolise opposing branches of the tree of life. The body hangs in the meeting point of these forces, and the meeting point might represent the fight between those opposing branches. The branches came from the tree (of life), brought forward by natural processes. In the meeting point there’s possibilities of death and ascension. For some.

The old Norse God Odin (with a possible shamanistic origin) is associated with a staff as a symbol. One of the stories about him is hanging on a tree for nine days to gain knowledge and wisdom. Neither that kind of God nor theme were restricted to the north. I came across a notion that mentions Caesar, who seemingly refers to a similar God among the Gauls:

Other contemporary evidence may also have led to the equation of Odin with Mercury; Odin, like Mercury, may have at this time already been pictured with a staff and hat, may have been considered a trader god, and the two may have been seen as parallel in their roles as wandering deities. But their rankings in their respective religious spheres may have been very different.[6] Also, Tacitus' "among the gods Mercury is the one they principally worship" is an exact quote from Julius Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico (1 BCE) in which Caesar is referring to the Gauls and not the Germanic peoples.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin

 

[Voyageur]

Oh, also: there seems to be a different take on the militant sort of Jews whom Atwill sees as underdogs and Laura sees as comparable to present day Islamic fundamentalists. Either way, the Romans would have reason to subdue them. Still, it would be interesting to look into this further since these are quite different characterizations of the same phenomenon.

One last mention, Heather (as I was reviewing today), was the Behind the Headlines: Jesus never existed? Interview with Laura Knight-Jadczyk (Attwil is discussed). This show/transcript also helps to explain some things, if you have not heard or read it before; it's very interesting.

 

[Heather]

Oh, also: there seems to be a different take on the militant sort of Jews whom Atwill sees as underdogs and Laura sees as comparable to present day Islamic fundamentalists. Either way, the Romans would have reason to subdue them. Still, it would be interesting to look into this further since these are quite different characterizations of the same phenomenon.

One last mention, Heather (as I was reviewing today), was the Behind the Headlines: Jesus never existed? Interview with Laura Knight-Jadczyk (Attwil is discussed). This show/transcript also helps to explain some things, if you have not heard or read it before; it's very interesting.

Hi voyageur.

Yes, I've listened to this one as well as "Unravelling the 'Jesus' myth," also a SOTT Radio interview with Laura, and found them wonderfully compelling. It was good place to start with all this, and is the reason I wondered about Atwill in the first place since I bumped into him through other channels and I remembered that Laura had mentioned him in not altogether a good light… and so I wondered what sort of "grain of salt" might be recommended concerning his output overall.

.. anyway, I'm not sure when/if I'll get around to him, in any event, since my plate is rather full at the moment (!).. (including reading more of this thread).

Thanks again, voyageur.

 

[Heather]

I just thought I'd copy and paste this from Session 25 March 2017 since it adds Troels Engberg-Pederson to the reading list concerning this topic, or at least insofar as it relates to Paul:

Laura's introduction: In the weeks prior to this session, I had been continuing to dig into research on the apostle Paul, looking for clues to understand what he was thinking and doing and how it might connect us to the “Julius Caesar as model for Jesus” idea. The last two Paul books I read were by Troels Engberg-Pedersen, and they really knocked my socks off. All the ideas coalesced there. Even though this scholar doesn’t have the wider view that I utilize, his exegesis of Paul’s writing/thought in terms of Stoic models was just brilliant. There are so many parallels between Paul, Stoics, Gurdjieff’s 4th Way, and the Cs that it is truly astonishing. I also see the parallels to Zoroastrianism, Jewish/Christian apocalyptic (derived from Zoroastrianism) and the Cs description of densities and their denizens. What was most useful was that Troels (ya gotta love a guy with a name like that!) created a graphic model of what participation in Stoicism, Pauline Christianity, and The Work is supposed to accomplish for the individual and it is all about creating community at a higher level of being.

I’ve been thinking about all this a lot, and had a few exchanges with Approaching Infinity about it – he’s read/reading the books also – and I wanted to bring it to the group as soon as possible because I felt it was very important and would be very helpful to many. For a few weeks I’ve been wanting to ask questions about these ideas and we kept cancelling the idea of a session because one or the other of us (mostly me) were simply not up to it energetically. So, finally, last night, rather late, I said “let’s do it – I feel like I can do it for at least an hour or so.” After checking with others, they said they could do it too, and so we did and here it is.

Session Date: March 25th 2017

Laura, Andromeda, and Galatea at the board

Pierre, Niall, Joe, Chu, Ark, Data, Scottie, Possibility of Being, Opal the Peekaboo Kitty

Q: (L) Today's date is what, March 25th, 2017? We just have the home crew here tonight because we haven’t been able to actually schedule a session because of health issues. [Review of those present] Alright... Long time no C! At least for conversation... we’ve sure been communicating while selecting crystals pretty darn regularly!

A: Now is a good time to learn!

Q: (L) And who do we have with us this evening?

A: Frilipiaea of Cassiopaea. Good evening! You have brought two books here tonight which contain great insights. We can see the many questions in your mind. Let us answer in advance that, yes, it is true that a network can operate as suggested. Also, the model of personal transformation is exactly correct with the modifications you have devised.

Mod edit: Fixed quote box

 

[Martina]

I was wondering could be some connection between Julius Nepos and Romulus Augustulus who lived in fifth century and the life of Caesar and Augustus, could they be the same guys? This would fit Caesar in fifth century being the last Roman emperor.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I just finished a GREAT little book on Caesar. Published last year, it's called "The Leadership Genius of Julius Caesar: Modern Lessons from the Man Who Built an Empire", by Phillip Barlag. While I wouldn't call it the best book on Caesar, I think it just might be my favorite. It is short (110 pages), easy to read, and gushes with love for the greatest man who ever lived. To give you an idea of the tone, here are the final paragraphs:

In some versions of history, Caesar is portrayed as an autocrat: a ruthless politician who would step on anyone who got in his way in pursuit of his selfish goals. The reality is quite different. Caesar was a populist, more beloved by and supportive of the common citizen than anyone who had come before.

He was of the people, not above the people. In his life and career, he created a new paradigm of leadership; and along the way, he created the path to success for any leader in a complex organization. He did not use force. He did not compel followers through threats, fear, or intimidation. He understood the source of a leader's power: the incentive and desire for someone to follow of their own free will.

In Caesar's brilliant insight into the triumph of power over force, we find the invention of modern leadership. All of the qualities we seek in great leaders today - empathy, generosity, dedication to the people around them, commitment to the organization and so much more - find their greatest example in Julius Caesar.

I was initially hesitant to even read the book. It's a "business" book, so I was expecting a lot of corporate jargon. But instead, what Barlag has written is a distillation of the qualities that made Caesar great: his virtues. And while it's not an extensive biography, or even a greatest hits of Caesar's biggest moments, each example - no matter how mundane - captures what Caesar was all about. Here are the chapter titles:

1. Lead with Power, Not Force
2. Lead from the Front
3. Defy Convention
4. Bet on Yourself
5. Keep the Lines of Communication Open
6. Co-Opt the Power of Others
7. Preempt Your Enemies
8. Invest in Your Power Base

I think part of the reason I liked it so much is that it came at the right time for me. After months of listening to Jordan Peterson talk about heroes and dominance/competence hierarchies, this book fits right in that pocket. Caesar was the most competent man there was. He won all the "games" of life, and he won them well. He also perfectly fit the ancient model of the ideal king: the representative of the god(s) who embodies the law in his own character and action, acting as a model for his subjects.

There is a scholarly question over whether Caesar was a revolutionary or a conservative. This has extra clarity for me now too. Caesar was a conservative in the Peterson and Collingwood sense: innovating in the present while preserving all that is necessary from the past. (Putin has the same strategy.)

Anyways, if you've got a free afternoon or two and want to dig into Caesar's awesomeness, check out this book.

 

[Turgon]

Thanks for the recommendation, AI. It sounds intriguing! I've only read a few other books about Caesar, but I enjoyed each one a lot. Saying he was epic is an understatement. Looking forward to reading this one.