Water

Hi,

I have been trying to figure which gravity Water Filter/Purifier system I want to invest in.

The choice has narrowed down to either the Propur or the Berkey system.
Reading reviews on amazon, other sites and the homepages of the systems I made a small chart organizing the positive and negative sides to the two compared to each other that may be of some use to others when deciding.

Big Berkey system:
Basic system cost: 265 Euro
+ Little water wastage
+ 99, 9999 % of covered, 1) read about difference between 99,99 and 99,9999 %
+ Seemingly greater flow rate, 4 gallons per hour with 2 purification elements which can be increased to 4 2) see comparison chart and 3) review

- Needs priming before use or after long periods of inactivity, without water pressure from a faucet it seems you cannot do it.
- Add on filters needed for filtering arsenic and fluride (pf-2) filters. Contains aluminum and may get transferred to drinking water
- Reportings of bad taste
- Connecting threads and nuts are plastic, leaking may occur if not in order.

Propur Big
Basic system cost: 240 Euro
+ Conditioning instead of priming of filters, do not need a faucet
+ 2 in 1 filters (Pro one filters) does not require add on filter for fluoride
+ Container and spigot all stainless steel
+ Better taste

- slower flow rate compared to Berkey 4) 4 hours to filter 2,25 gallons(amazon)
- conditioning takes 2 days
- When new, it will not completely let any water through unless the top canister is completely full 4)


1) http://www.preparednesspro.com/water-filtration-facts-pay-attention-to-the-nines
2) http://www.consciouswater.ca/propur-vs-berkey/
3) http://www.cookinggodsway.com/big-berkey-water-filter-system-review/
4) https://propurusa.com/Page_13.html + reviews on amazon
5) http://apartmentprepper.com/tag/propur-versus-berkey/

I have included some references and have checked reviews on amazon that supports the claims.
Of course, the reviews go back and forth but this is what it keeps coming back to as far as I could see.

The Propur container seems to be a better option because of it being just stainless steel and no plastic, also they use conditioning for their filters instead of priming to replace the air within the pores of the filter element with water. The benefit here is that you do not need pressure from a faucet to do this and would be beneficial if not having this available; it does however from what I have read take 2 days, compared to priming which only takes 5-10 minutes.
The Berkey filters seems to have faster flow rate and removes a higher grade of contaminates, but leaves a “bad taste”. The flow rate of the Propur filters seems to get very bad reviews and complaints that one always has to keep the chamber full to keep the flow stable.

Note: Flow rates calculated by both is that the upper chamber is full. Flow rate decreases as water level declines.

The filters can be used with both systems (containers) as a far as I can see, and a support for this is found in this review at the bottom: http://apartmentprepper.com/tag/propur-versus-berkey/

So maybe the Propur system is best to begin with because of the container and better tasting water, and save up for some Berkey filters if that does not work out so well.
 
I have had the Berkey in use for a while and in my experience it has worked well, I haven't encountered problems with the taste.

The priming would be a problem without water pressure, but there seems to be a way around this:

Before traveling to and using the Berkey system in an area without water pressure we recommend that the purification filters be primed using the priming button. If this is not possible the filters can be primed approximately 50% by using the below method. In other words using this method, the filters will not produce flow as fast as they would using the priming button method however they will filter significantly faster than if the Berkey elements had not been primed at all. This alternative priming method is as follows:

STEP 1: If your Berkey system is assembled, remove the purification filters from the upper chamber. Next, fill the lower chamber with water, then place the purification elements into the lower chamber, upside down with the stems facing upward, and put a ceramic coffee cup (or something else that will hold them under the water) on top of each purification element stem to force the element down under the water. Let the purification elements soak for several hours. This will force some of the air out of the stubborn pores. NOTE: Make sure that opening in the stems of the purification elements are not underwater as we want the water to be forced through the pores rather than entering through the hole in the stem.

STEP 2: The inside of the Berkey purification filters should now be full of water and significantly heavier. Try to keep as much water on the inside of the purification elements as is possible as you reassemble the purification element into the upper chamber by keeping the stems facing upward. Empty the water from the lower chamber and place the upper chamber back onto the lower chamber. Immediately fill the upper chamber with water.


When the Berkey purification filters have water within the bore (inside core), more force is generated to draw it through the purification element. This is because the water that drips out of the purification elements also hydraulically pulls new water into the purification element as the purification element begins to work like a siphon. Thus, in addition to the "push" of gravity, there is also a hydraulic "pull" and this drastically improves the ability of the water to force the air from the micro pores. The above method is less efficient than priming the filtering cartridges with the priming button supplied with your filters but should be about 75-80% effective in clearing the blocked micro pores.

Let the water in the lower chamber run to waste and refill the upper chamber with water. Your Black Berkey® elements are now primed and ready for use.

http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-answers/how-to/black-berkey/prime/
Click to expand...

I haven't purchased the fluoride filter yet, as the water in the area where I live is not fluoridated.

The fluoride filters of both Berkey and Propur seem to filter additional heavy metals, etc..

Propur:
The ProBlack+™ Advanced Fluoride Filter, sold in pairs, consists of granular activated carbon based media and is designed to help reduce heavy metals, arsenic, fluoride, Bromine, Pesticides and chlorine/chloramine found in drinking water. Reduction will vary dependent upon the contaminants contained in your water supply. Some contaminants will be more easily filtered than others. Percentage of reductions will vary from 50% to 95% over the life of the filter elements based on the level of contaminant(s) found in your water supply.

The reduction efficiencies that may be achieved are as follows:

50% - 95% for Fluoride
>50% to include Mercury and Silver
>80% to include Aluminum, Arsenic III, Arsenic V,
Cadmium, Chromium VI, Iron, Maganese
>90% to include Copper, Nickel, Zinc
>95% to include Lead

Will also help reduce Strontium, Uranium and Vanadium

The ProBlack+™ Advanced Fluoride Filter mounts "piggy back" onto the stem on the bottom side of the ProBlack-D™ water filter elements. Due to the wide variety of contaminants that may be present in your water supply, the length of time the ProBlack+™ Advanced Fluoride Filter requires for replacement may vary. Under normal conditions, it is recommended that you replace yourProBlack+™ Advanced Fluoride Filters atleast every 6 months.


https://propurusa.com/Water_Filter_Elements.html
Click to expand...


Berkey:
Effectively reduces the following water contaminants

Fluoride
Pre-oxidized Arsenic III and Arsenic V
MTBE
Other heavy metal ions

............

REPLACEMENT:
It is recommended that each set of two Berkey PF-2™ fluoride water filters should be replaced after 1,000 gallons (3,785 liters). Example: If you had a Big Berkey system (2 gallon capacity) and you refilled the system 2 times per day, you would be using 4 gallons of water per day. Under these conditions the PF-2 fluoride water filter elements would last 250 days (1000 gal. divided by 4 = 250) or a little over 8 months. Actual replacement period for the PF-2 fluoride filter is dependent on how much water you would use and the presence of other competing contaminants in the source water. High levels of arsenic, fluoride and certain heavy metals may negatively affect the efficiency and capacity of the PF-2 elements.

Technical Information

Testing was performed with a flow rate of less than 11 liters per minute per cu.ft. of the Berkey KDF filtering medium at 20 - 30 parts per million (ppm) of the ion in the solution liquid. Results of < 1ppm of the fluoride ion in the effluent were typical for the filter media (>95% reduction). Under optimum laboratory conditions, effluent concentrations of less than 50 part per billion (ppb) were readily achieved which equates to a >99.75% reduction.

ARSENIC: Arsenic cations and arsenic oxide anions have unique properties that this Berkey filter product effectively targets.


http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-water-filters/fluoride.html
Click to expand...


I'm not sure, but going through the filtration specifics, it appears that without the extra fluoride filters, Berkey possibly filtrates more heavy metals than the Propur. At least there didn't seem to be a more specified list of heavy metals filtrated with the main Propur-filters. Probably would be a good idea to get the fluoride filters for both systems, in the end.



Berkey:
Heavy Metals: Greater than 95% reduction for most metals

Aluminum (> 75%). Antimony (>97.5%), Barium (>80%), Cadmium (>99.5%), Cobalt (>95%), Chromium (>95%), Chromium 6 (>99.85%), Copper (>95%), Lead (>97.5%), Mercury (>98%), Molybdenum (>90%), Nickel (>95%), Vanadium (>87.5%)


http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-answers/performance/filtration-specifications/
Click to expand...

Propur:
Contaminant Removal of theProBlack-D™ water filter elements

The majority of pathogenic (disease causing) bacteria and cysts are larger than one micron. The pore size of the ProBlack-D™ water filter elements is controlled so that it will remove all suspended matter larger than 0.3 microns.

Pathogenic bacteria
Cholera, Typhoid, Salmonella, Serratia, Fecal Coliform >99.99%
E. coli - 100%
Cysts
Cryptosporidium Parvum, Giardia Lamblia - 100% removal

Sediment
Down to 0.8 micron - 100%
0.3 - 0.5 micron >99.99%
Turbibity >99.7%

Contaminants
Chlorine, Chloramines, COD (Chemical Oxygen Demand), Lead, Arsenic, Nitrite, Pesticides, Herbicides, VOC's, Iron, Aluminum, THM (Trihalomethanes), PAH (poly-aromatic hydrocarbons), and other heavy metals.
Chlorine - 99%
COD .75%
Lead - 99%
Arsenic - 90%
MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) - 90%

NEW UPDATED CONTAMINANTS LIST
VOC’s >95%
Alachlor, Atrazine, Benzene,
Carbofuran, Carbon tetrachloride, Chlorobenzene,
Chloropicrin, 2,4-D, Dibromochloropro-pane,
o-dichlorobenzene, p-dichloroben-zene, 1,2-dichloroethane,
1,1-dichloro-ethylene, cis-1,2-dichloroethylene, Trans-1,2-dichloroethylene, 1,2-dichloro-propane, cis-1,3-dichloropropylene, Dinoseb, Endrin, Ethylbenzene, Ethylene dibromide,
Haloacentonitriles, Haloketones, Heptachlor epoxide,
Hexachlorobutadiene, Hexachlorocyclo-pentadiene, Lindane,
Methoxychlor, Pentachlorophenol, Simazine,
Styrene, 1,1,2,2-tetrachloroethane, Tetrachloro-ethylene,
Toluene, 2,4,5-TP, Tribromo-acetic acid, 1,2,4-trichlorobenzene, 1,1,1-trichloroethane, 1,1,2-trichloroethane,
Trichloroethylene (TCE), Trihalomethanes (THMs), Xylenes


https://propurusa.com/Water_Filter_Elements.html
Click to expand...
 
hiker said:
I have had the Berkey in use for a while and in my experience it has worked well, I haven't encountered problems with the taste.
Click to expand...
Ditto.
 
I am about to buy the Berkey system with PF-2 fluoride filters. Has anyone actually tested to see that these fluoride filters work? Also, is there any concern about activated alumina (not aluminum) in the fluoride filters?
 
I've used the PF-2 filters, but have no objective way of determining if they work. I recall that they told me on the phone that they have a shelf life from when you first purge and run water through them. I can't remember exactly, but I think the alumina that is used isn't much of a concern. You might try looking on their website or emailing them about it.

There are some tests done here, click on PF-2 filters on the left side http://www.berkeywater.com/start.main.html

The official site: http://www.berkeyfilters.com/
 
3D Student said:
I've used the PF-2 filters, but have no objective way of determining if they work. I recall that they told me on the phone that they have a shelf life from when you first purge and run water through them. I can't remember exactly, but I think the alumina that is used isn't much of a concern. You might try looking on their website or emailing them about it.

There are some tests done here, click on PF-2 filters on the left side http://www.berkeywater.com/start.main.html

The official site: http://www.berkeyfilters.com/
Click to expand...

I will take a look. But after my experience with Seychelle Environmental Technologies, I don't even believe lab results a company posts about fluoride removal. I will do my own testing when I get the Berkey.
 
hlat said:
I am about to buy the Berkey system with PF-2 fluoride filters. Has anyone actually tested to see that these fluoride filters work? Also, is there any concern about activated alumina (not aluminum) in the fluoride filters?
Click to expand...

I would not think so. Alumina is insoluble in water.

However, the efficiency of activated alumina on fluoride removal is affected by both the pH and temperature of the water. In a general way, it seems to work best in mildly acidic conditions and warmer temperatures (room temperature or so).
 
JayMark said:
I would not think so. Alumina is insoluble in water.

However, the efficiency of activated alumina on fluoride removal is affected by both the pH and temperature of the water. In a general way, it seems to work best in mildly acidic conditions and warmer temperatures (room temperature or so).
Click to expand...

I will be using regular cold water out of the kitchen faucet. I thought I read that activated alumina works better is colder temperatures rather than warmer.
 
I tested the Travel Berkey system with PF-2 fluoride filters. The baseline tap water had 0.80 ppm fluoride. After that water went through the Travel Berkey with the fluoride filters, the water had 0.14 ppm fluoride according to my test.

So in my experience, Berkey works, while Seychelle is a fraud.
 
Considering the session of 6 Feb 2016, and the discussion on water I would like to add what I posted in the session thread to this thread as I think it relevant.
http://www.sourceenergymedicine.com/
is a site that designs/makes labels for specific concerns, to place on glass water jars to infuse the water with a message from the label.
They do not mention using salt, as the C's did, or even distilled water as far as I know.
It may be worth checking out as an experiment using the labels, without or WITH intention.
I will start adding salt to me distilled water and if I see a change, I will report back here.
 
Water The Great Mystery

Water: The Great Mystery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W80mHIGg9v0

Hi,

I saw this documentary recently. I think it's a very interesting subject. One moment I began to tear while I was watching it, I couldn't identify why, maybe because I felt there was some deep true, or some things was unblocked.

I wanted to see what do you think about this subject but I didn't find anything, beside a recent mention in a session and some Sott articles in Spanish.

I didn't read Earth Changes yet, where I think it could be mentioned, but this documentary gives a clue of the water being like a channel that tells to the planet or the cosmic mind when is time for the “cleaning” or something like that. Did someone saw it? There is something serious about this?
 
Re: Water The Great Mystery

josev said:
Water: The Great Mystery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W80mHIGg9v0

I wanted to see what do you think about this subject but I didn't find anything, beside a recent mention in a session and some Sott articles in Spanish.
Click to expand...

There was a recent Health and Wellness show about water that you might want to take a listen to.

Water: What Do We Really Know?
 
Re: Water The Great Mystery

Turgon said:
There was a recent Health and Wellness show about water that you might want to take a listen to.

Water: What Do We Really Know?
Click to expand...

Thanks Turgon, I'm going to listen it.

Unfortunately I can only understand 30-50% of the words, I've been trying with the old podcasts in youtube
 
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