What's the "mechanism" behind an OP gaining soul potential?

[Ruth]

As far as I can tell, we are all STS and being an OP relates more to awareness, than any form of 'orientation'.

I think I see your point and I agree – that a non-OP can have a higher STS frequency than an OP – but I don’t think the separation of awareness and orientation is valid. To my understanding, the state of being of an individual does determine their awareness;

Then you must think that an STS being sees as much, and is as aware as an STO being. I can think of a few things that would get in the way of that idea, the most obvious one being wishful thinking. STS beings see only what they want to see and therefore their awareness is limited to half the picture. They can't 'see' STO, and this is what makes their existence unbalanced.

it all depends on the level of development and capacity of the lower centres. Every soul has a limit to what it is conscious of, but with the higher centres to be potentially seated for a non-OP (which can be perceived in "quieter" and deeper moments throughout a lifetime) means a potential for a higher awareness. Only "esoteric work" - that is a change in orientation - allows these higher impressions to be received.

I think it is more a case of who (in the non-op world) has the potential to 'seat' their higher centers. OPs simply don't have access to them although they may be 'perceived in "quieter" moments', as you say, probably when mirroring others. The Cs said that 50% of humans had access to these higher centers and yet, look around you, do they want to know all there is to know (the good and the bad)? Of course not. They are inured into their STS "Matrix", so much so that they will even fight to protect it.

I think confusing the idea of 'OP-ness' with 'STS-ness' is an incorrect, but very common thing to do. In fact, its a very STS thing to do and therefore not surprising.

It occurs to me that, if OPs don't have the higher centres, do they have a choice at all? If not, then the idea of OP-ness is by default, STS-ness -- calling a spade a spade -- whereas with a non-OP it's not so simple; they have a completely opposite mode of being available to them.

So, is it our world, or is it their, world which is STS by default. Who is more responsible for this situation? The ones that have a choice or the ones that don't? Especially, as you put it, "a non-OP can have a higher STS frequency than an OP". One would think that the people with the choice, had the power to chose to become STO and more aware, but they don't chose this. They prefer to bury their heads in the sand and live in a world of imaginations.

I'm not sure what period of time represents this type of 'cycle', but if an OP wishes to become a non-OP, I'm begining to think it has something to do with their free will. i.e does the OP want to develop higher centers and get turned into an individuated 'battery' for 4th Density STS, and do they want to do it here.

I wouldn't imagine the "wish" would ever be formulated by an OP while they're in physical existence. That seems more like what occurs to an adamic in his Fallen state. The two races are only effectively the same remember. A saying from alchemy comes to mind here: to make more gold, you have to have some gold to begin with.

I prefer to see OPs as a 'bridge' between 2nd density and 3rd. This bridge provides OPs with a means of making a choice (most likely not made when in physical incarnation, as you said). As far as gold goes, well, it doesn't have consciousness and I think you can probably make pretty much anything if it doesn't have consciousness. All you need is the right ingredients, tools and processes. Perhaps, if you are 4th density, you need a thing to copy a thing. I'm sure they would have the technology to do this.

Souls, or consciousness on the other hand, have to evolve and as a primary directive, need free will, or choice to do so. OPs get the choice - it they want, to become individuated, at some stage. They don't have to if they don't want to. Non-OPs have a choice to become STO or stay at the default, which is living in the ignorant and mindboggling imaginary world of STS. Somehow, I don't think 4D STS has managed to 'clone' or photocopy a soul, usually coming up with something pretty 'ordinary'. I'm sure they've tried, but failed.

Can an OP wish to become a non-OP? Another saying: the lower cannot comprehend the higher. This doesn't quite fit the situation with non-OPs striving to seat the higher centres, because as the tradition says (and speaking somewhat from experience): there lies within the adamic-man a faint remembrance of a higher state of being; he may even notice those evanescent moments where he finds himself at the third-state of consciousness.

Are you sure you weren't remembering STO, or, before the 'fall'?

If an OP doesn't have this very dim awareness, how can they strive for it? Wouldn’t they be completely satisfied with themselves as they are?

And I'm sure that some of them may be, but some may not, and that's when they make a choice to become individuated. Its not an easy choice from what I've seen - I mean, who'd volunteer for 3rd density sts controlled by one of the most highly evolved parasitic entities around? Not easy to say the least. They'd have to be pretty dedicated.

The progression to step it up a notch, probably occurs at higher levels than in the waking-consciousnes of a living OP.

Another way of looking at it is, the OPs are in kindergarten, primary school or junior school as far as their awareness or conciousness goes. Non-OPs (have the potential to be) at university. But mostly... its anarchy out there and they're all hanging out on the corner, doing drugs and behaving badly, when they should be in school. This is the environment the "Lizzies" have engineered. Mayhem which perpetuates loss of knowledge.

 

[yorkiebe]

Hi All,

I have been sitting on the fence here for a while reading many posts, can anyone tell me why we agreed at the fall to become involved with this energy in the first place? How was the deal made and by what manner so to speak? Are we souled beings actually getting anything out of this relationship of energies at all? Does all energy including souled beings on the physical plane have free will regardless of their intent and what they do whilst they are here on the planet?
once had a very old medium told me that souless beings (which at the time I did not understand) were a form of what we would term evil because of their lack of caring and empathy to other energies and I can well understand that, however around the same period of time I met someone attempting to explain to me regards the builders and guardians of this plane and how they monitor what comes in and out etc. So what happened to the monitoring here in this situation?
Also If we were duped in some way as souled humans by this energy does that not make it an illegal act by them through our innocence in the matter at the time which would be against some sort of universal law to impinge on us this way?


What we are trying to achieve as souled Human beings, to go where and do what in the long run?
If they are not seen as impinging and retarding our free will growth here then that has to mean at some level it was correct for them to be here too, but why? To only give out pain to the rest of us as that’s all I have ever experienced with this type until I realized the situation of them. But now despite not wanting to be involved or anywhere near people who are ops or behave in this manner they appear in my life with increasingly regularity.
I noticed the C,s said somewhere the more we grow the more ops they send well I can spot them quite quickly now on a feeling level and run..... but are they part of my evolution here because it was right for them to be or am I simply fighting off foreign invaders leaving me less time to do here what I wish to do, which is explore all things spiritual and myself alongside others of similar intentions?
Also whilst I respect everything has a right to be here, (I think) they are part of a seemingly bigger global picture in the world on many levels, repeatedly placed in positions of power to stunt our growth, the earth and maybe even beyond with their controls and manipulations whilst we do not appear to be granted so many similar positions to fight back with. I can see a lot of people are very very sick and disheartened with this situation. This does suggest to me a form of desired intelligence that does know what it is doing and we still don’t know enough on most occasions so in essence they must be like a form of evil to us and our growth? (Unless we agreed at some level we really need to understand, if only for our own sanity whilst following our path)
What energy built the bridge from dimension to dimension in the first place for the use of? And when building surely that energy must have been able to foresee events taking place in the manner and style of their creations, the pitfalls and the positives?
As for the physical universe I have always joked when I leave I want to be smiling seeing it become ever distant in my rear view mirror without leaving a travel brochure or asked to fill out a survey report-). I do not say this to be negative and I am not depressed but have experienced some feeling states with other energies ( that could be manipulated too I guess) that leaves this squabbling planet with nothing to beg for your attention in my opinion, my only concern here now is seeking, growing and helping anyone on the way with the dream of when I manage to be able to leave.
opted out of the new age waffle was the swing between love everything whilst it repeatedly stamps on you and creates as much havoc as possible to waiting to be saved but doing very little for themselves.

As they say like attracts like how the hell did we attract them with all our different needs for what purpose, there is a lot of comments concerning what they want to do and how the op sees things (which I agree with from very personal experience) however what were we hoping to gain from this alliance as souled human beings that led us to this point? In terms of our evolution are we saying we have actually stunted our growth for eons?
I am presuming here as well that we see most of the new age bable with all its forms and archetypes are too the controllers and holders here by what they would try and have us believe to hold us to, so just what parts of our seeking can we actually trust when receiving so much information before we disappear or our heads and brains have swollen to such a degree trying to logically figure it all out? I feel we need some sort of illumination we can feel a little sure of that we are following, as when outside influences can permeate our bodies and minds with anything we think may be our own thoughts that are not it is like being wrapped in a paper bag blinded, how do we see so clearly through the fog to any trustworthy truth?
Oh and last thought what happens to the children that are born of an op and souled human do they have a soul or not?
In fact I think I would like to ask the cs that if a person does appreciate and understand the other dimensions and has cut through and amount of illusion here are we guaranteed to be able to leave as I think returning here would be more than I could bear. (From this incarnations prospective at least)
I hope someone has some further insights -)

 

[kenlee]

Hi All,

I have been sitting on the fence here for a while reading many posts, can anyone tell me why we agreed at the fall to become involved with this energy in the first place? How was the deal made and by what manner so to speak? Are we souled beings actually getting anything out of this relationship of energies at all? Does all energy including souled beings on the physical plane have free will regardless of their intent and what they do whilst they are here on the planet?

Some good info here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave12a.htm
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave12b.htm

 

[yorkiebe]

Thanks Jedi,

am working my way through the links you directed me too, great stuff thanks, will be back with more questions no doubt -)

 

[bobo]

1. An OP does not possess an individual soul. When their body dies, their soul essence migrates to Fifth Density, and then converges with a greater soul essence. There is no possibility of the same "personality" ever reincarnating on Third Density.

There might be a lot of speculation here, but as I understand, a “personality" is not a “soul essence" . Say, if we take as a working hypothesis that a human being has 4 bodies, physical, genetic, spirit-etheric and consciousness, then after his death, he would probably reach 5D with two later ones.

Furthermore, if a soul (regardless is it a group soul or an individual soul) is “held in place by thought center, spirit center and physical center," then after death it would go to 5D “attached" to two bodies (the consciousness and spirit-etheric).

Now, it seems that OPs experience the 2nd death in 5D and go back to 2D, before new incarnation. This would mean that there would be a possibility of retaining individuality (‘personality’); although, as an artificial structure, it has been a great deal conditioned/formed after the birth in 3D. So, I would say that as an “individual unit of consciousness" a being can progress to a level where it would gain a sufficient awareness and a level of consciousness which could make possible for him to acquire an individual soul.

2. A non-OP possesses an individual soul. When their body dies, their soul migrates to Fifth Density. If they still have lessons to be learned, they will reincarnate with the same individual soul on Third Density.

Well, I would say so, too, - and with an addition of their consciousness and the etheric bodies, as well, which would join to a ‘resonant’ (or compliant) genetic body and, at the end, turn up as a physical one, as a complex of four.

3. Some OPs have the ability to develop a soul potential. If this soul potential is not developed in a lifetime, however, that OP's soul essence will follow the fate described in Point 1. However, if such an OP does develop a soul potential within a lifetime, no matter how embryonic it may be, their fate will be that described in Point 2.

I think, theoretically it would be so, however, practically, I mean, in the given circumstances – I see it as almost impossible, - if the process includes a compulsory ‘mirroring’ or imitating souled individuals.

Because of … imitating WHOM?!

According to my perception (though, it has probably been far from the objective one) in the current circumstances, here and now, what has been happening is something completely opposite. Adamic human beings have been imitating pre-adamics! This could be concluded by a simple observation. Majority of people are behaving as automations, robots or machines. Whom to imitate, then?! In a sort of a natural situation, where adamic beings would be aware and awake, thinking and acting consciously, then OPs would have somebody and something to imitate.

***

However, what we have now, is - another question. Can adamic people lose their soul in such a situation, - and go down the ‘cosmic drain’, together with OPs, towards lower densities?! Or, at least, turn to a wrong direction at the ‘crossroad’?

As I see it, we are all, more or less, - transpesonalised (using Lobaczewsky’s term), we are living in a transpersonalised society, we are as a humanity on the brink of destruction right now, and as such, we are still wondering - if OPs could gain a soul!? What about shifting our attention to developing our own ‘magnetic centres’ and connection with our own higher centres?!

The point of esoteric work is to develop the Higher Centres, meaning an OP has the ability to become a non-OP.

This, probably, may be true in some sort of natural conditions, however, in the given circumstances, I would say that those of us, who already have the higher centres, have to make a connection with them and display their properties ASAP; and those who do not have the higher centres, would not be able to connect with something, which they do not have. (As I understand: One has them, or – does not.)

In today’s psychopathic world, ruled by the pathocracy, for transpersonalised adamics to make connection with their existing higher centres is extremely hard, let alone a possibility for OPs of “growing" them.

Once we are able to achieve a permanent link with our individual souls, and once we start manifesting their true properties in this reality, then we would be able, as well, to show to OPs - how a souled being really looks like, and how it should behave. Then, OPs would be in a situation to make their choice, to imitate us, or not. However, till then, there would not be much of a difference.

-

 

[ark]

Once we are able to achieve a permanent link with our individual souls, and once we start manifesting their true properties in this reality, then we would be able, as well, to show to OPs - how a souled being really looks like, and how it should behave. Then, OPs would be in a situation to make their choice, to imitate us, or not. However, till then, there would not be much of a difference.

-

Perhaps what I will write below is totally misguided or wrong or even worse than wrong. Nevertheless:

I do not know whether I have a soul or not. But, frankly speaking, I don't care. I do (or at least it is my desire to do so) the best I can do given the circumstances. I learn (or at least I desire to learn) as much as possible and to use this knowledge.

All the rest is, at least I think so and I do not know any evidence that would contradict such thinking) is hypothetical. Fact is - human beings are looking for some kind of immortality. But does such a thing exists? This is, it seems to me, an open question. An important question - for sure, yet open. Perhaps it must be so: that it will be "open forever" - as long as time exists. So what to do? I can't imagine anything better than simply doing research on hand, and leaving our lives the best way we can, looking at the same for any available knowledge that would help us to to understand better where our "standards" are coming from and whether we are not deceiving ourselves or being deceived.

Discussing the details of OP's and non-OP's, souls and non-souls is, it looks to me, as a kind of theology. I do not want to take theologists as examples. What to do not fall into the traps of theology? Why not base the discussion on data and always look for the data first?

 

[SeekinTruth]

My understanding so far from the material I’ve read is that OP’s and individually souled humans are pretty much the same until an individually souled person does the Work and makes a permanent connection to the soul, at which point the person can advance through esoteric evolution. Adamic humans (individually souled in potential) have the Higher Centers, the Higher Emotional and the Higher Intellectual. Through the Work, Adamics can develop the three lower centers, moving/instinctive, lower emotional, and lower intellectual, to work "as they should" so to say. This means all the little i’s from the different lower centers must be "fused" into a cohesive whole after crystallizing the magnetic center. As the lower centers are developed and harmonized they work at the proper speed using the proper fuel for each center instead of working at cross purposes and stealing each other’s fuel which makes them work improperly.

As the lower centers are balanced/harmonized and developed they can then receive and assimilate impressions consistently from the Higher Centers which were always there but unable to reach and communicate properly with the lower centers. As this Work progresses, a permanent connection is eventually established between the lower emotional and Higher Emotional centers; and then through the Higher Emotional center eventually a permanent connection is made with the Higher Intellectual center.

Depending on the individual situation, the person having reached this point can either "graduate" to 4th Density or after the physical body expires, reincarnate in 4th Density. A person occupies the density he or she fits most closely which is based on awareness and lessons learned.

Now, OP’s, as they are, do not have the Higher Centers and therefore cannot complete the Work to graduate to the higher density. There is an intermediate stage that they must first complete to get to the point of having Higher Centers and being in the same position as Adamics are now; that is, having Higher Centers but not being able to connect and communicate with them in any consistent manner. Once an OP gets to that point, he or she is no longer an OP but an "Adamic" who has to do the Work and complete it to individuate a permanent soul that survives physical death and can then reincarnate in 4th Density. My understanding is that OP’s becoming Adamics is dependent on Adamics graduating, as if as those "in front" on the learning/experiential cycle graduate/move ahead, those "behind" move forward into the graduate’s position.

It should also be noted that the C’s and Mouravieff seem to imply that Adamics have a soul which recycles into third density without conscious recollection of previous lives and soul experiences, whereas Gurdjieff (who doesn’t emphasize the two different "races") implies that no permanent soul exists for Adamics either unless it is crystallized/grown by doing the Work. This may come down to semantics as there is little practical difference in the two implications, rather it seems to be more of a shift in emphasis.

It should also be emphasized that the Fourth Way work is to be done through the STO pathway, and is in no way connected to "black magic," etc. to graduate to 4th Density STS. And finally, it should be noted that Adamics were, previous to the "Fall," 3rd Density STO (aligned with 4th Density STO rather than aligned with 4th Density STS as they are now "after the Fall"). According to the C’s, there was a "desire based imbalance" that lead to Adamic Humans wanting to have increased physical sensations and experiences (which was choosing to become STS), and this is what caused the "Fall."

This may be an ongoing "syndrome," as the C’s seem to say, that may not be limited to humans. Since half of "Universal Consciousness" falls asleep for the different physical densities to come about, it seems certain "soul units" fragment off of the totality of the "Original Soul" to then "fall asleep" and become matter and experience "reality" as matter (a very limited experience of it). These "soul units" then become addicted and stuck in the physical, identifying only with the physical experience. Then other "soul units" may volunteer to come into the physical to help those stuck there by giving knowledge of how to release themselves from the "physical prison" for those who want to escape, and in the process, many of these souls may get stuck in the physical through "addiction" (total identification with the physical cutting off consciousness of anything else). But all this is very speculative from our current point of view.

 

[Ruth]

On another forum I was commenting about OPs, the Second Death, etc. And then I wondered, "How does an OP develop an individual soul?"

:) Free will. At some level a being decides to 'change' or move in a different direction. But it's got to want to do so... on some level.

I know it's related to the Work, but the only way the Work can be feasible is if an OP somehow causes a "soul seed" to germinate, and they then have the opportunity to reincarnate to make that seedling grow further in future lifetimes. It would not, for example, make sense if an OP has one lifetime, and one lifetime only, to grow a complete soul. That would defeat the purpose of reincarnation.

I'm not sure the Work is meant for OPs. Therefore that might mean that reincarnation is Work. OPs may therefore be exempt from taking part in the reincarnation cycle. Until they decide to do so.

So, with my reading, I have gathered the following three points (correct me if I'm wrong, please):

1. An OP does not possess an individual soul. When their body dies, their soul essence migrates to Fifth Density, and then converges with a greater soul essence. There is no possibility of the same "personality" ever reincarnating on Third Density.

I prefer to think that OPs have souls - just not the 'souped up' soul potential (and in most cases its only ever in potential) of a non-OP. But, I think you are right, it seems likely that they stay where-ever OPs go until they decide to be 'elsewhere'.

2. A non-OP possesses an individual soul. When their body dies, their soul migrates to Fifth Density. If they still have lessons to be learned, they will reincarnate with the same individual soul on Third Density.

They may have other reasons to reincarnate too, such as some sort of 'mission' of what-ever type they are 'into'.

As I stated at the beginning of this post, the way I see it is that there is simply no point in having reincarnation if it is not to continue to nurture a pre-existing soul or soul potential to a level of development such that reincarnation is no longer necessary. Indeed, there is no point in having OPs if some of them do not have the ability to develop a soul. After all, OPs are "portals" for 2nd Density life to enter 3rd Density life, implying that they have evolved from lower life-forms.

Now, that's a bit harsh. Kind of like saying there's simply no point in having time if a rock (1st density) can't change into a cat (second density). I'm sure some rocks are simply ok as they are and would prefer to stay that way... Perhaps not everything wants to 'evolve' and simply wishes to stay as it is?

Meaning that "true" 3rd Density beings are the ones who already possess individual souls, and were once OPs themselves. So it is always possible for an OP to become a true 3rd Density being if they can at least cause a soul-seed to grow within them at any stage in their short existence. The reason I have come to these conclusions is that one lifetime is far too short for a being to go from an OP to someone who has activated all their Higher Centres through the Work. Surely this must take many lifetimes?

Yeah, probably. I have been wondering if, as in the 'wonderful world' of non-OPs, if there aren't also several levels to OPs or, of OP 'complexity'. And whether a previously 'souled' person can turn around and say (via the free will principle) that they think reincarnation sucks and they now want to go back to being a simpler form of life (OP).

The next question, which brings me to the the subject of this post, must be, "What is it that makes one OP more able to develop a soul than another one?" Is it all chance? Is it upbringing? Or is it genetic?

Free will, then the rest will follow. ;)

 

[Ruth]

Discussing the details of OP's and non-OP's, souls and non-souls is, it looks to me, as a kind of theology. I do not want to take theologists as examples. What to do not fall into the traps of theology? Why not base the discussion on data and always look for the data first?

I didn't realise theology was such a broad term until I looked it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology
Maybe religion(s) are the 'trap' of theology. Science must have its 'traps' too, though. What happens if you can't get data? But then, is theology a science? Perhaps it can be... I'm not sure. Can you call something a science if you can't get data? And what about the quality of this data? But, I'm digressing. :o

 

[Ryan]

As I see it, all this stuff about souls, OPs etc is a model. A "map" if you will. Whether that "map" is correct, I don't know. I don't have the experiential data to confirm or deny whether I have a soul or not.

But there are various other models, maps etc. For instance, one model is that all humans have souls which will be judged by Yahweh after Armageddon, and sent to either heaven or hell for eternity. Now, when I compare this model against the more "esoteric" one, I notice that one model admits to more possibilities than the other on at least one criteria.

1. All people have souls.
2. Some people have souls and some do not.

Mathematically, this is quite simple. Now, one thing I DO have experiential knowledge of is that the Universe is a vast and mysterious thing, and the most unexpected things can happen, even things I considered previously outside the realms of possibility (for instance, the 9-11 attacks).

So now I prefer models which maximize possibilities, regardless of whether people think they are "nice" or not. And I can work from these models until I have the experiential understanding to confirm or refute them.

Of course, some people prefer to obsess over the details of the map, rather than simply using it to get from here to there. That's not the approach I prefer. ;)

 

[Third_Density_Resident]

Perhaps what I will write below is totally misguided or wrong or even worse than wrong. Nevertheless:

I do not know whether I have a soul or not. But, frankly speaking, I don't care. I do (or at least it is my desire to do so) the best I can do given the circumstances. I learn (or at least I desire to learn) as much as possible and to use this knowledge.

I don't know whether I have a soul or not either. And I wouldn't like to be sure that I do have one because that would be a sign of self-importance, apart from the fact that it would also not be supported by hard data. But at the same time, if I found out, somehow, that I definitely didn't have a soul, it would bother me to the point that I would certainly want to do something about it if it was at all possible. Like you, I like to do the best I can given the circumstances, and if "the best I can" means being able to do the Work to bring about a better individual though soul development, and hence a better universe, then of course that's what I'd do. And I guess that's the motivation behind my original post -- what's the mechanism behind an OP gaining soul potential? I would like to think that if I or another person was an OP, I/they would at least have the free will to develop a soul.

All the rest is, at least I think so and I do not know any evidence that would contradict such thinking) is hypothetical. Fact is - human beings are looking for some kind of immortality.

Of course there's almost always going to be an element of humans desiring immortality. But being "immortal" is only a tiny part of possessing a soul. The way I see it is that there is far more to being souled than simply being immortal. I see it as becoming part of the universe in an active, but positive way (which is only true if you're STO of course). This is not to say that being an "unsouled" OP is not being part of the universe; it's just that this existence is rather passive (although nowhere near as passive as being an atom, obviously).

But does such a thing exists? This is, it seems to me, an open question. An important question - for sure, yet open. Perhaps it must be so: that it will be "open forever" - as long as time exists.

The answer to that question, based on the hard data I have read, is "categorically no", which is to say that the existence of the soul is almost certainly "yes", even if the proof which has been provided may only suggest a certain type of soul essence exists. I base this answer on much research which has been conducted by scientists, just like yourself, into the so-called paranormal. And many of those scientists have even attempted to come up with the physics to support their findings. The ones who have not, and use just empirical data, have very convincing evidence nonetheless. I won't bore you with a list of links; anyone with internet access can find the data themselves easily enough. But collectively the mountain of evidence into the existence of the "paranormal" in such fields as reincarnation, xenoglossy, near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, proxy sittings, and materialisation mediumship -- to name but a few -- is nothing less than astonishing; anyone examining the same evidence could not come to any other conclusion unless they have extreme bias and a totally closed mind.

So what to do? I can't imagine anything better than simply doing research on hand, and leaving our lives the best way we can, looking at the same for any available knowledge that would help us to to understand better where our "standards" are coming from and whether we are not deceiving ourselves or being deceived.

My sentiments entirely.

Why not base the discussion on data and always look for the data first?

My sentiments entirely (see above), "[a]nd so, let me repeat: who wants to believe -- let them believe. But I do not want to believe, I want to know." Having quoted that, which defines me perfectly, I have actually planned on looking at the evidence I've just mentioned from the OP/non-OP framework, to see what I uncover. I already have encountered some "paranormal" evidence that is highly suggestive that OPs do indeed have a "second death". I hope to present it at some future time.

 

[SeekinTruth]

I prepared and posted my post #22 before I read Ark’s post #21. He has raised some very good points. Everything discussed in this thread should be taken as a working hypothesis. We simply don’t know for sure about any of this. We are taking information from ancient esoteric teachings and what the C’s have said (which correspond quite closely). All of this is the basis of the working hypothesis.

However, we need to be careful it does not become blind belief. We should always remember that it is a working hypothesis and subject to change with more data.

As Ark expressed, I also do not know if I have a soul or not. And we just don’t know if any form of immortality exists. It IS an important yet open question. So we can only do the best we can at any given point in our lives, learn all that we can (which will raise the level of what doing our best is), and focus on our current lives and behavior, I think.

 

[Third_Density_Resident]

However, we need to be careful it does not become blind belief. We should always remember that it is a working hypothesis and subject to change with more data.

As Ark expressed, I also do not know if I have a soul or not. And we just don’t know if any form of immortality exists. It IS an important yet open question.

And yet, bearing what you've just said in mind, all the hard evidence that presently exists (and there's plenty of it) is most simply and best explained by the hypothesis that there is some form of immortality or essence that survives physical death. I'm not saying that everyone will have this fate; I'm simply stating that some kind of essence does indeed seem to traverse that apparent gulf we call "death". I studied all of this data long before I discovered SOTT, and as someone who likes to know things, and not blindly believe in them, and who values repeatable experiments carried out in a rigorous manner, it was very hard for me to come to any other conclusion from that stated above.

 

[Ruth]

Re: What's the \

I prepared and posted my post #22 before I read Ark’s post #21. He has raised some very good points. Everything discussed in this thread should be taken as a working hypothesis. We simply don’t know for sure about any of this. We are taking information from ancient esoteric teachings and what the C’s have said (which correspond quite closely). All of this is the basis of the working hypothesis.

On the matter of souls, the C's seem to think all physical creatures have them.

[quote author=C's 941107]
Q: (L) Are there any other physical creatures on planet earth which have souls?
A: All do.
Q: (L) Is the human soul different from, say, animal souls?
A: Of course.
Q: (L) Are there any other physical creatures on the earth which have souls like human souls? On the same level, so to
speak?
A: No.
Q: (L) Well, I have heard that dolphins, porpoises and whales have very advanced souls. Is that true?
A: All souls are advanced.
Q: (L) But are whales sentient, thinking, self-aware as humans are?
A: Apples and oranges. [/quote]

I guess if this were true, then type of soul must vary and not whether someone (or something in the case of a non-human) has one or not. I wonder if an insect has a little itty bitty soul? Perhaps soulness needs some type of sentience or consciousness to exist. I prefer the word sentience over consciousness because a psychopath can be conscious, but not sentient.

 

[gdpetti]

Re: What's the \

IMO, it would seem that OP/PreAdamic or Adamic, the same process of seeking the light is at work... it never goes backwards, just shunts to the side... like a spiral spinning in place or a dot on a closed circle fixated to that spot and not moving along. The process is said to be automatic.. as all form is made of thought or consciousness, so the only issue is the nature of the environment in which the 'seed' is planted... is it fertile? is the weather good for growth? the sunlight? etc. All beginnings seek their ends to close the circle... and vice versa... as that analogy of existence being like a slide projector tray. All a game limited by perception as our singular lifetime as one slide seems like a movie to us... a film playing in the projector illuminated by that urge that created it all in the first place. All cells of the creation/Creator seek completion... some are ahead, some behind.. but eventually all return home.

I remember Ra speaking of the body in 2d terms.. and like the C's mention of the soul marrying to the body, then it's really a question of finding the right fit for function, all in terms of increased potential for evolution of awareness/perception of the mind as the soul doesn't change its perception of being all there is, but allows the game of knowing thyself to take place in the mind complex... which affects the body, which follows the mental perceptions into each increasingly aware form from 1d to 2d to 3d to 4d and then the lack of physical form for only ethereal form or the spiritual body.

Didn't the C's say that OP's/Pre-Adamics have little chance of evolving in this 3dSTS environment due to 4dSTS siphoning off of their potential, same as Adamics? Not much chance on a seed growing if it's never allowed to see the sun, though 2d pets are evolving in their close relationship with 3d entities. Perhaps more in Adamics than non-Adamics, but can we really tell the difference? Pre-Adamics operate on a random generated experiential program, much as early Adamics are said to do.. until enough bias is generated and chosen in terms of preference... choice. Existence being an unconscious process towards the light until each cell wakes up on its own and learns its own way in the world... a world of experience shortened in a short wave cycle, but intensified by 100x as well, that Ra source said, as the veil comes down hiding the Truth but making its hidden presence in our hearts that much more intense, but only after we start to awaken.. usually through pain, affecting the DNA etc.. in Adamics or PreAdamics, the former just further ahead in this game than the latter. PreAdamics seem much like the creation of Grays by 4dSTS.. a means of extending themselves further into this environment to better control its occupants/tenants/us. They grow both by the dozens or hundreds it is said and similiar to the Matrix image gave the viewer. But without the individuated soul unit transforming the essentially 2d body, the potential energy level generated for their feasting is rather low. David Hawkins and his chart of emotional levels based in consciousness implied that negative energy is exponentially lower than positive energy. And he mentioned that animals are generally positive, which is why the Ra/Quo sources said they are better in tune with the Creator etc... as they have yet to separate into individuated units of consciousness.. so no veil in the terms we recognize it... 3d seems the nexus point in the circle or torus between unity and separation and the basis of duality in form as we perceive it. So, perhaps the OP's/PreAdamics have no need for evolution as it is a natural process taking place within them as they simply exist. 3d seems that transition point between Being and Doing... a hurdle to cross as consciousness runs around the field of form... where the illusion of time etc come out to play after the test of subjective desire enters the picture.. with the cell of consciousness finding individuality and separation from its parent self... like a orphan child then lost in the big city... the emotions intensify, the pain potentially jumps up an exponential level, and the Adamic is born... able to experience both negativity and positivity that the OP/PreAdamic cannot.. but by imitation... and though imitation might simulate the real thing, it isn't and never can be... but the intent to be more than it is presents the lessons to the group soul same as the individual soul.. only different lessons for different levels of awareness. Both though, have to 'awaken', whether it's an initial awakening or a subsequent one, the feeling must feel rather the same.. only the potential is different. The PreAdamic awakens to the itself for the first time like a small child learning to crawl and later walk.. whereas the Adamic feels the self already within enclosed within a shell of limitation that like an eggshell needs to be broken to release the energy within... the knowledge within.

It seems to me that the problem the OP/PreAdamics have is the Adamics... who have yet to awaken and lead them as children into the 'promised land' of an STO environment better suited for their growth. And as the group soul is 'human', and the home for humanity in Orion in this sector of the galaxy, then that analogy might take on more significance in the near future than currently is understood.