Why the secrecy?

[Bernhard]

....have actually "failed" the test, because if one has truly understood "the work" he/she would not even have "tried" this to begin with?

Pretty much, but I don't know that 'failed' is the right word, simply because they certainly would have learned exactly what it was that G was trying to get them to See by doing so. Ultimately, anyone who did go out and do such a thing, thinking they had 'found someone' who they could talk to about it, had not really 'gotten' the points G made about silence, the mechanical nature of man and how people will fight for it. To my understanding, it is classic Gurdjieff to do such a thing; to teach a lesson in such a visceral way, using the student's own weaknesses to lead the way - but that's just my take on it and I certainly could be mistaken.

Seeing the excerpt in that light makes sense, as I have certainly fallen into the "trap". When I was first getting into "Gnosis" by Mouravieff (whom I studied first before getting into Gurdjieff) I was dating a girl. Being very excited about what I had found I wanted to "turn her on" to it as well. However, although she said she was interested (and she did ask me about it) and liked what I had to say about it, she never made an effort on her own to actually read the material for herself. So I was more trying to "feed" it to her in bits and pieces, trying to explain something I was just getting into myself and didn't fully grasp. Eventually there were more and more misunderstandings to the point that I realized I had to stop talking about it altogether. Later on, after having read ISOTM, understanding the importance of the "group" and also understanding "Gnosis" better (where it is also written about not acting on the "urge" to want to talk about it to others), I realized that I was not externally considerate and I was also acting out of self-importance, wanting her to adjust to my "excitement".

Now, my question is, if one has a conversation with someone about life and meaning, spirituality and general self-examination and that person is stuck and comes for advice, would it be "ok" to suggest to him/her to check out ISOTM or Gnosis without trying to explain what "the work" is about? Well, then the other question comes up, what after this suggestion he/she asks what this book is about? What to say, or better not to say? I guess it comes down to the sincerity of the question? And maybe direct him/her to this group without explaining anything? Or shouldn't one have suggested the material to begin with? In other words can "the work" be introduced to someone by a person at all or can it only happen through "impersonal" means, like finding it in a bookstore, or on the net for example.
Personally I found it not through a person but by finding this site here. So, although the work is to be held in "secrecy" it is ok to post about it publicly (not only this site and forum, but general excerpts from G and "The Work" all over the web)? Well, I guess one is certainly not violating anyone's free will by posting excerpts from "the work" on the web, as only those who are drawn to it by their free will are actually reading it. osit

Excuse the many question. I'm just trying to understand correctly.

 

[anart]

Now, my question is, if one has a conversation with someone about life and meaning, spirituality and general self-examination and that person is stuck and comes for advice, would it be "ok" to suggest to him/her to check out ISOTM or Gnosis without trying to explain what "the work" is about?

Well, since you've asked, allow me to make an observation that may or may not be objectively correct.  You appear to be someone who enjoys giving spiritual advice to others; who feels the need to 'direct' or 'guide' others using your subjective spiritual understanding.  You may do this under the guise of 'healing' or 'guidance' without forceful direction or command, in a 'helping' manner, but, in fact, you are quite attached to it and most probably can't envision yourself stopping completely, because you think it is 'part of who you are'...

With that said, others may have advice you would appreciate more because after all that I have learned, I would never advise someone spiritually who had not already sought out the Work - on their own - via their own suffering and need to find answers.  That might sound bizarre, but  I have seen what damage trying to 'bring someone' to this Work can do and it cannot be understated.

This applies to personal interaction - to people who come to me to help them solve their personal problems and daily issues - it does not apply to what Laura has done, which is to put an enormous volume of work together, that was forged through her OWN gargantuan lifelong labor, for others to find and either utilize or not. 

Well, then the other question comes up, what after this suggestion he/she asks what this book is about?  What to say, or better not to say? I guess it comes down to the sincerity of the question? And maybe direct him/her to this group without explaining anything? Or shouldn't one have suggested the material to begin with? In other words can "the work" be introduced to someone by a person at all or can it only happen through "impersonal" means, like finding it in a bookstore, or on the net for example.

I suppose it comes down to your perceived role as a 'teacher'.  Do you really think that you know and understand enough to influence (positively) the soul development of another?  If that question does not stop you cold in your tracks, then you do not understand its import.

To put it very simply, "one does not become an STO candidate by determining the needs of another" - and - "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions"  - not all 'asking' is asking and if your ego and self-importance is served by 'guiding' others then, you best stop.

Personally I found it not through a person but by finding this site here.

Yet, you honestly think that you can 'take it' to others?  Can you see the level of self-importance (and inner-considering) involved in that?  You benefited greatly by finding it on your own, but now you can attract attention to yourself using what you found - by 'taking it' to others; never once considering that the power in what you found lies in part in the fact that you found it - were driven to find it - on your own.

So, although the work is to be held in "secrecy" it is ok to post about it publicly (not only this site and forum, but general excerpts from G and "The Work" all over the web)?

I suppose the main factor in that question is why you do so?  Do you do it to bring attention to yourself?  Do you do it because it makes you feel 'good' - because it makes you feel like a 'teacher' - or do you do it anonymously, with the intent that someone might find it and move past what you have written, past your own personal understanding, never - ever - knowing who you are or attributing it to you and thinking of you as 'knowledgeable'?

Well, I guess one is certainly not violating anyone's free will by posting excerpts from "the work" on the web, as only those who are drawn to it by their free will are actually reading it. osit

See above.  As always, this is just fwiw - and simply food for thought.

 

[Bernhard]

Thanks for holding up that mirror, anart. I have more contemplation to do. In relation to "the work", yes I'm "guilty" of having given without asking, however the main even was with the girl as I mentioned above. So your observation is in part right. I just have finished ISOTM for the second time and with help of this forum I see "the work" better. Step for step for me. I think it would have been better for me to read Gurdjeff before Gnosis and the Wave actually. "Giving without asking" is certainly a program in me I'm becoming more and more aware of, however, I do not run around telling anyone "you have to check this out!", etc.
I do have some issues with self-importance that come up here and there and well as lack of external consideration at times , but it is a process I just started to fully grasp after having just finished ISOTM. So I'm working on it. I also understand that giving without asking is STS. I would never claim to be STO as I have STS traits I need to work on, as I think everyone else does as well, for all are STS here on 3D.

In my work as a bodyworker, when a client is processing, unwinding and releasing or talking, I do not give any advice other than let him/her process. I do not see myself as a "healer" but just help open up the body/mind healing process in others by tuning into their "body intelligence", and let it proceed as needed. I may talk to him/her about other things, but non of it is related to "the work". When I'm in "bodywork-mode" I become very conscious of how far I can go and what I can do or not. I mean this in relation to bodywork and not "spiritual advice". I don't speak much at all during a session. The only "advice" I give when I'm being asked is very basic and not related to "the work", such as suggesting doing certain exercises, dietary changes, less stress in life, spend time in nature and such. Interestingly when I do my bodywork, external consideration comes more naturally to me, then sometimes in "every day life", I'm trying to make someone aware that 9/11 was a lie (as an example) without being asked to want to hear about it. However, this is less and less happening due to better understanding of "external consideration". No one can be woken up against one's will and I need to keep remembering myself that.

 

[Beau]

Now, my question is, if one has a conversation with someone about life and meaning, spirituality and general self-examination and that person is stuck and comes for advice, would it be "ok" to suggest to him/her to check out ISOTM or Gnosis without trying to explain what "the work" is about?

This isn't the first time you have brought up people coming to you asking for advice. The thing is, most people are doing such things on a mechanical level, they are not really interested in becoming aware of their true nature. Yes, it's interesting to discuss "concepts", as long as they remain such things and do not interfere with their other "I's". The problem is that the Work cannot be properly explained by most because it is not properly understood. Also, you must remain vigilant with yourself in as far as being honest about why you feel the need to advise. Because, from my observation, it certainly seems like you are getting something out of these conversations, whether you are aware or not. I don't think you realize how "off" our perceptions are and how giving advice can be affected by that. Their is nothing wrong with feigning ignorance about what is the right path for someone to take if they ask you. Just because something has worked for you does not mean that it is what will work for someone else. Sometimes you have to let people do what they will do, and not try to judge them or do anything to affect their decisions. That is part of external consideration.

 

[Azur]

Also, you must remain vigilant with yourself in as far as being honest about why you feel the need to advise.

This is key, for a myriad of reasons. You can read the principles of a thing, and thus deduce and (unknowingly) build a pseudo-knowledge buffer and still not really understand the meaning of the principles.

One must be wary of thinking they have come across certain knowledge and then unconsciously using it not as currency, but dispensation of assumed power.

 

[Bernhard]

Now, my question is, if one has a conversation with someone about life and meaning, spirituality and general self-examination and that person is stuck and comes for advice, would it be "ok" to suggest to him/her to check out ISOTM or Gnosis without trying to explain what "the work" is about?

This isn't the first time you have brought up people coming to you asking for advice.

Yes, it is true in regarding the issue with "myth of myself", yet there really has not been anyone who has come to me for advice. The only people I suggested ISOTM and Gnosis were to the girl I mentioned and myth but I never talk to him about "the work". As a matter of fact, I directed him to this forum if there may be any questions. I'm not even sure if he got the book to begin with, as I have hardly contact to him. He lives two states away. It's not like we're buddy's hanging out all day or even talk on the phone.
In all sincerity it was more of hypothetical questions, because I do see in myself the need to be more aware of external considerate and do not want to fall into the trap of "giving without asking". That actually comes up more for me in world events (like trying to make people aware of the 9/11 lie or Palestine, the man-made Global Warming lie, etc....) and "give" without asked, but not in esoteric means of "the work". It's hard for me to look at the world an not get upset and vent a times. I'm still a work in progress.

Yes, it's interesting to discuss "concepts", as long as they remain such things and do not interfere with their other "I's". The problem is that the Work cannot be properly explained by most because it is not properly understood.

I certainly have experienced that when I first got into Gnosis and my desire to share it with the girl I was dating. I do have become more cautious about it.
I can also see a level of my self-importance in this case with here.

Also, you must remain vigilant with yourself in as far as being honest about why you feel the need to advise. Because, from my observation, it certainly seems like you are getting something out of these conversations, whether you are aware or not. I don't think you realize how "off" our perceptions are and how giving advice can be affected by that.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but the "advising" is not as much as you seem to perceive it. I simply told a couple of people about a book I found interesting in context of talking about Self-work in general. There are no detailed "advice" about "the work" at all, not any conversations about it at all. I see now that I under no circumstances should even mention ISOTM or related 4th way teachings like Gnosis as book suggestions to anyone.

Just because something has worked for you does not mean that it is what will work for someone else. Sometimes you have to let people do what they will do, and not try to judge them or do anything to affect their decisions. That is part of external consideration.

True that. As Carl Jung said: “The shoe that fits one person pinches another; there is no recipe for living that suits all cases.”

 

[Oxajil]

The thing is, most people are doing such things on a mechanical level, they are not really interested in becoming aware of their true nature. Yes, it's interesting to discuss "concepts", as long as they remain such things and do not interfere with their other "I's".

Yes exactly. Sure, they might read the book, but that's what they will do, just read the book, or so I think. I was talking some months ago with my teacher about what books we both read, she advised a book for me to read and I advised her a book to read, which was ISOTM. She told me she likes the book. That tells me enough that she will not ''use'' that book, ''verify'' that book or anything else, but just ''read'' it. Or so it seems.

Just because something has worked for you does not mean that it is what will work for someone else. Sometimes you have to let people do what they will do, and not try to judge them or do anything to affect their decisions. That is part of external consideration.

Yes, and I think people will make and make the same ''mistake'' over and over again until they really understand and see how true that is. And this is imo how one learns. Anyone can agree to the above, but they will make the same mistakes, until they start to (perhaps) Choose not to anymore (perhaps change one's being?).

 

[nemo]

Pepperfritz, your suggestions are very helpful! Now it`s up to me to apply this "course-change" in my life.

In fact, when one speaks about such things to someone that they should not, they are very likely destroying any chance that person
has of coming to the material on their own - I can't imagine a more horrid thing; to block a path due to one's own self-importance.

That statement serves as a forceful reminder to stay vigilant.
In that light I`m most likely responsible for a couple people to never question the official 9.11. narrative again .

 

[anart]

Yes, it is true in regarding the issue with "myth of myself", yet there really has not been anyone who has come to me for advice. The only people I suggested ISOTM and Gnosis were to the girl I mentioned and myth but I never talk to him about "the work". As a matter of fact, I directed him to this forum if there may be any questions. I'm not even sure if he got the book to begin with, as I have hardly contact to him. He lives two states away. It's not like we're buddy's hanging out all day or even talk on the phone.

Hi Bernhard, are you being completely forthcoming about this?  Don't you have a 'myspace' page that you use to go into quite some depth about spiritual concepts and politics and such - and which brings you feedback and attention?  

In light of this, this following sentences rather boggle the mind:

In all sincerity it was more of hypothetical questions. [...]  Yes, I'm aware of that, but the "advising" is not as much as you seem to perceive it. I simply told a couple of people about a book I found interesting in context of talking about Self-work in general. There are no detailed "advice" about "the work" at all, not any conversations about it at all.

 

[webglider]

... after all that I have learned, I would never advise someone spiritually who had not already sought out the Work - on their own - via their own suffering and need to find answers. That might sound bizarre, but I have seen what damage trying to 'bring someone' to this Work can do and it cannot be understated.

I was recruited into a 4th Way group about nine years ago in which I stayed for about three years. I ignored a number of warning bells that went off in my head until I had to make the decision to leave because the group demanded a great deal of my time and my daughter needed me at home. I was told that if I left I could never come back but I left anyway, actually with a sense of relief.

Years later, research clued me in to the fact that the group I had been recruited into was a false 4th Way Group;
which validated the warning bells that had been going off in my head.

One aspect of the group that really bothered me was that once a member left, no one was allowed to have contact with that member again. I still see several people in my neighborhood from the group, and sometimes we'll say "Hi" and then walk past each other as though we had never spent such intense time together. I'm a person from "Life", and therefore it behooves the others to keep clear of my contaminating influence.

And yet, I think that I learned a great deal from that experience. It exposed me to Gurdjieff, and it also allowed me an insight into my own and other people's machines.

However, after I left, I had no desire to involve myself in anything 4th Way until I encountered SOTT. My encounter with SOTT was totally different from my encounter with the recruiter of the previous group.

First of all, I stumbled upon SOTT on my own after I had had an insight into the horror of the situation through my experience with my own personal two psychopaths at work who scuttled a program that I had spent years creating. These two were connected to psychopaths at higher levels who supported those at the lower level. I learned what happens when one tries to fight such a system. And when once I saw the corruption in the system in which I worked, I began to see it everywhere.

But what really opened my eyes was 911. After a few years of doing research about 911 on my own, I was ready for SOTT.

So, in my case, 4th Way Group I was in was not a bad experience. It exposed me to The Work and other teachers of The Work, so that when I encountered Laura I was somewhat familiar with a number of principles taught by Gurdjieff, and more importantly, I had acquired enough discernment so that when I stumbled onto Laura's work, I could recognize the real thing.

 

[Bernhard]

Don't you have a 'myspace' page that you use to go into quite some depth about spiritual concepts and politics and such - and which brings you feedback and attention?

Yes, I do have a myspace site and I do post articles on there, mostly reposting from SOTT or other news sites with links/credits and all. I also post my own blogs about my own thoughts about these and other topics and I do post blogs about "spiritual concepts"which I find intriguing. However, I am not pushing this on anyone or send them out to anyone. I was under the impression that you were referring to my "advising" in one on one situations in "real life". I didn't see it as an issue just posting things I find interesting. So I apologize if that was lacking sincerity on my part or blind spot.
If people add me and read it that is their choice. For the most part I've gotten actually positive feedback that I turned some on to SOTT and the material on here, as well as other stuff, including "spiritual concepts" but I do not discuss the "work" on there, nor do I give "spiritual advise". People who message me talk about all kinds of things except "the work" and it is more of a an exchange about current events. Even Richard Dolan wrote me a couple of times, thanking for the getting the word out about certain topics as he enjoyed certain blogs. You may say it "feeds" my self-importance but I see it more as a way to spread the word and networking. I do not use the site to advertise my services as a bodyworker or take any credit for anything I didn't write. I have some quotes and excerpts from Mouravieff and Gurdijeff, as well as Castaneda, Jung, Krishnamurti, Laura and others on there as well, but I do not present myself as a "teacher". As a matter of fact, I've written on there numerous times that I'm a work in process and just post things I found helpful in my process and I also menstioned many times that what works for me may not work for others. I also write blogs about topic I can't discuss on here, but which I like to explore a bit, like Plant Shamanism. It's just my personal outlet and my way helping to spread the world about SOTT and other stuff. I don't see no harm in posting "spiritual concepts" or Psycology from whichever teaching, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Some of the "friends" on my site have actually also purchased books from QFG like "High Strangeness" or "The Wave" because I linked them to it.
I also actually took some "spiritual" excerpts down last night, because apparently it is something I should not do, as I'm not sure what I can post now and what not, so I'm in the process of downsizing. However, so many people on the net are posting the same excerpts and quotes, so who is "allowed" to do it or not and who is the judge? Just type "Gurdjeff quotes" into google and see for yourself. Can I even not post a one sentence quote without being judged as a "teacher? and if the quote is longer, what is the limit? Does anyone on the net who posts excerpts from "the work" or has even dedicated sites up about "the work", do not "get it" as they are supposed to be all secret about it?

The simple fact that one has a myspace site brings obviously attention and feedback, hence it can be seen as a sign of self-importance, kinda "look at me!", which myspace is essentially about, isn't it? Aren't others on here as well who also have myspace sites? Hence it brings them attention and feedback to them as well, no matter what one posts on there. The only way not to attract attention and feedback is obviously to have no site at all. The same would go for bloggers, who post their own thoughts.
I understand now better that I shouldn't post anything in regard to "the work", but does this go as well for political and world events, articles that are on SOTT?
Am I not allowed to write blogs containing my own thoughts about "spiritual concepts" other than the "4thway"?
I understand that it in light of what you are saying that I should be more more careful about anything in regards to"spiritual concepts".
As you always say "the world is on fire", so this is just my way of helping getting the word out. SOTT also even provides "buttons" to help get the world out, which I also have used on my site.

 

[anart]

You may say it "feeds" my self-importance but I see it more as a way to spread the word and networking.

Does it feed your self-importance?  Judging from this energetic response of yours, it certainly would seem that this is the case.

Some of the "friends" on my site have actually also purchased books from QFG like "High Strangeness" or "The Wave" because I linked them to it.

And how did that make you feel?  For what it's worth, the way you are writing about it certainly reveals self-importance and energetic feeding, can you See that?

I also actually took some "spiritual" excerpts down last night, because apparently it is something I should not do, as I'm not sure what I can post now and what not, so I'm in the process of downsizing. However, so many people on the net are posting the same excerpts and quotes, so who is "allowed" to do it or not and who is the judge?

And here you wholly miss the point.  It is not about a 'judge' - it is about being able to See oneself and ones motivation and intent - it's about objectively Seeing oneself.  I would have to say that judging from this response of yours, you are feeding - pure and simple.  That is, of course, your choice, but to see it as anything else is a lie to the self.

If you knew that not one other soul would read what you've written there, would you still write it?

Just type "Gurdjeff quotes" into google and see for yourself. Can I even not post a one sentence quote without being judged as a "teacher? and if the quote is longer, what is the limit? Does anyone on the net who posts excerpts from "the work" or has even dedicated sites up about "the work", do not "get it" as they are supposed to be all secret about it?

Quite a bit of defensive energy here - can you understand why?

The simple fact that one has a myspace site brings obviously attention and feedback, hence it can be seen as a sign of self-importance, kinda "look at me!", which myspace is essentially about, isn't it?

It's quite important to you, isn't it?

Aren't others on here as well who also have myspace sites? Hence it brings them attention and feedback to them as well, no matter what one posts on there. The only way not to attract attention and feedback is obviously to have no site at all. The same would go for bloggers, who post their own thoughts.
I understand now better that I shouldn't post anything in regard to "the work", but does this go as well for political and world events, articles that are on SOTT?

More of the same - quite defensive.  Can you understand the line of force behind what you are writing here - that you almost appear desperate to have your feeding justified?  It's your life, Bernhard, so you have every right in the world to post anything you'd like anywhere you'd like to post it.  For the purpose of this conversation, however, it would be more productive for you to attempt to See your true motivations and reactions, if you are able.

Am I not allowed to write blogs containing my own thoughts about "spiritual concepts" other than the "4thway"?

Well, you really are quite identified with this.  No one said you 'weren't allowed to' do anything, but one thing I can say with some degree of certainty is that you are lying to yourself - resulting in a defensiveness, almost a desperation and need to prove that what has been suggested is not true.

I understand that it in light of what you are saying that I should be more more careful about anything in regards to"spiritual concepts".
As you always say "the world is on fire", so this is just my way of helping getting the word out. SOTT also even provides "buttons" to help get the world out, which I also have used on my site.

Is it?  When you examine your true motivations and reactions to this blog of yours, the feelings of satisfaction and reward you feel when people respond to you and buy books you suggest - what do you See?  Are you able to See? 

No one puts this much energy into defending something unless they are emotionally invested in proving themselves 'right' - or in keeping a food source.

 

[Bernhard]

I can see your point, anart and I do see my self-importance in that. As I mentioned before I do have self-importance issues here and there and I'm not denying it. It's something I need to work on and become more conscious of. The reason why I elaborated about the msyspace site is more out of confusion and trying to understand, as I thought it was helpful for the work of SOTT and wanted tho show the confirmation. From your initial post, I thought that you meant that just having a myspace site means being self-important, that's why I questioned it.

You wrote about "intent". My main intent with myspace is to network and get the word out, although I can see how at times my self-importance slips in and I'm working on it. I live a bit remote in the woods and the internet is my main way of networking, besides the little community I live in (to whom I do not talk about "the Work" at all).
Self-Importance is not something I can't shut off immediatley as it comes through here and there automatically and I can see what you mean by "feeding". I can see when that happens more and it is certainly mechanical. It's something I wasn't even really aware of in the past, but looking back I can see my self-importance in various scenarios in my life. I really like to come to a "place" (inside myself) where I can be of help and service without getting my self-importance in my way and I know I need to be very vigilant about this.

I thought I'm able to do this for the most through myspace as an outlet. In a sense it's a "spiritual practice" for as the "work" changes me as I go along and I learn through it. Writing helps me to integrate it more, as well as this forum. However, and I'm not sure how you see me, but I'm not consciously "getting off" when people thank me for posting certain articles or directing them here, thinking I'm a "big shot". I'm becoming more conscious not to feed off the feedback/attention I get, yet it is still a process for me and self-work. Sometimes I see how it happens mechanically and I tell myself "here it comes" and try not to identify with it, sometimes I feel nothing coming up and there is no feeding. It's a process. Sometimes there is feeding, sometimes not, depending how hungry my "predator" is at any given day, I suppose.

Some of the "friends" on my site have actually also purchased books from QFG like "High Strangeness" or "The Wave" because I linked them to it.

And how did that make you feel? For what it's worth, the way you are writing about it certainly reveals self-importance and energetic feeding, can you See that?

For example in that regard, I didn't feel any self-importance, when I found out that some folks purchased the books. I simply registered it without feeling "great" about it. Not every incident like that equals me feeling good or self-important about it. I was simply stating it for the sake of showing what kind of "feedback" my posts get. However, the whole "justification" part of me could be considered self-importance, as I can see it now. Trying my best to explain myself about this issue without getting defensive, but I guess I didn't succeed.
I'm emotional in may ways and according to the 4th way model, I seem to be man 2, as my emotional center seems to get affected easily and overrides the others, hence I'm probably easier victim to emotional feeding. Over-Sensitivity is something I need to overcome. It serves me well in my profession as a bodyworker, but it gives me trouble in other ways. Years ago, before I came across this material I was a "junkie" for "feel good" New Age stuff and all about YCYOR. Now I realize it was more "food" my predator was looking for to keep me asleep in my Subjectivity.
However, despite my issues that come up with that kind of exposure, I hope I'm being able to contribute for the better and not make things worse.

 

[PepperFritz]

I thought I'm able to do this for the most through myspace as an outlet. In a sense it's a "spiritual practice" for as the "work" changes me as I go along and I learn through it. Writing helps me to integrate it more, as well as this forum.

You could do that by keeping a personal (and private) journal, and/or confining such writing to this forum. Why do you require a myspace audience for your "spiritual practice"?

As I mentioned before I do have self-importance issues here and there and I'm not denying it....
I can see how at times my self-importance slips in and I'm working on it....
Self-Importance is not something I can shut off immediatley as it comes through here and there automatically....
...looking back I can see my self-importance in various scenarios in my life....

You seem to be working very hard to create the impression that, for you, Self-Importance is currently only a minor problem, one that only emerges "at times", "here and there", and is mostly in your "past". Do you really believe that you are capable of having an accurate gauge of your own Self-Importance? Don't you think that experienced observers involved in the Work (such as Anart) would have a more objective perspective on that than you? You cannot correct something that you are unable to see, and something that you cannot accept that others observe in you.

I'm becoming more conscious not to feed off the feedback/attention I get, yet it is still a process for me and self-work. Sometimes I see how it happens mechanically and I tell myself "here it comes" and try not to identify with it, sometimes I feel nothing coming up and there is no feeding.

Why not simply stop indulging in an activity that so obviously lends itself to Self-Importance and Feeding? I notice that you failed to answer the key question that Anart posed. ("If you knew that not one other soul would read what you've written there, would you still write it?") I think it would help if you attempted to answer that question, as it was posed for a reason. It would also help if you were to try and articulate why you feel the need to post your writing about "spiritual concepts" to a myspace audience. What does that audience provide to you that a private journal and/or this forum do not?

I really like to come to a "place" (inside myself) where I can be of help and service without getting my self-importance in my way and I know I need to be very vigilant about this.

Why do you think your writing essays about "spiritual concepts" to a myspace audience is "of help and service"? You could tell people about and provide links to SOTT without them, so they are not necessary to helping SOTT. Who exactly do you think you are helping and serving? These are not meant to be rhetorical questions, I think if you attempt to answer them you may begin to see what others are seeing in your posts in this thread.

Consider what Gurdjieff had to say about "helping others", and how it might relate to your own impulses:

It was said, for instance, that somebody wanted to help people. In order to be able to help people one must first learn to help oneself. A great number of people become absorbed in thoughts and feelings about helping others simply out of laziness. They are too lazy to work on themselves; and at the same time it is very pleasant for them to think that they are able to help others. This is being false and insincere with oneself. If a man looks at himself as he really is, he will not begin to think of helping other people: he will be ashamed to think about it.

 

[Bernhard]

Why not simply stop indulging in an activity that so obviously lends itself to Self-Importance and Feeding? I notice that you failed to answer the key question that Anart posed. ("If you knew that not one other soul would read what you've written there, would you still write it?") I think it would help if you attempted to answer that question, as it was posed for a reason. It would also help if you were to try and articulate why you feel the need to post your writing about "spiritual concepts" to a myspace audience. What does that audience provide to you that a private journal and/or this forum do not?

I do have a journal that I write in and the few blogs I write are intended to be read by others, for the same reason why people have blogs in general. I wouldn't say every blog I put up automatically leads to feeding and self-importance.

Why do you think your writing essays about "spiritual concepts" to a myspace audience is "of help and service"? You could tell people about and provide links to SOTT without them, so they are not necessary to helping SOTT. Who exactly do you think you are helping and serving? These are not meant to be rhetorical questions, I think if you attempt to answer them you may begin to see what others are seeing in your posts in this thread.

Consider what Gurdjieff had to say about "helping others", and how it might relate to your own impulses:

It was said, for instance, that somebody wanted to help people. In order to be able to help people one must first learn to help oneself. A great number of people become absorbed in thoughts and feelings about helping others simply out of laziness. They are too lazy to work on themselves; and at the same time it is very pleasant for them to think that they are able to help others. This is being false and insincere with oneself. If a man looks at himself as he really is, he will not begin to think of helping other people: he will be ashamed to think about it.

Most of my posts are just reposted articles and excerpts with the links, not too much "spiritual concepts" or essays. The vast majority of blogs I ever put up are not my writings to begin with. Maybe you are right and I should refrain from talking about anything "Spiritual" and just post the links and even refrain to write anything on my own.

Thanks for the G quote as well, good to contemplate on. I just like to to connect to people in general on the net and talk about all kinds of topics. The articles I post are writings I find interesting. How other readers perceive it, I don't know. Some like it,some don't. I do not try to help "anyone", other than helping to spread the word about SOTT and other articles from other sites. I like Les Visible's articles as well. I'm also aware that the best I ultimately can do for others is to work on myself. I'm just very appreciate of the material by SOTT, so I do my best to get the world out while I keep working on myself.
I also don't think that Self-Importance is a minor issue. I think it is deceiving in many ways. I was just stating that I'm aware of it more here and there than at other times. Sometimes it's very subtle and I can't see it immediately.

All of this is giving me plenty to think about and I need some time to reflect. Thank you.