Why the secrecy?

[Gawan]

Hi Bernhard,
let me ask you one theoretical question:

How would you feel, if you delete your myspace-account?

 

[Oxajil]

I do have a journal that I write in and the few blogs I write are intended to be read by others, for the same reason why people have blogs in general. I wouldn't say every blog I put up automatically leads to feeding and self-importance.

Why are they intented to be read by others? I think writing a blog should sometimes be more intented to help yourself first, and if you have readers that read as well and might help them too, then so be it. But it seems that your main goal is for others to read it. I have a blog too (I think I have 0 readers :)), I collect info altogether to make it clear for myself and when I think I can show it to others, I post it here. Atm I can't think about making a myspace and keep it updated etc. ''for others to read''. IF I would make one, I would merely post some links to some books or a link to SOTT, I wouldn't put my energy and time in to things that are only intented to be read by others (and secretly hope that it will change their lives by reading it). Actually, I think from all those people that might read your myspace, perhaps only 1 (or not even 1) will start do the Work as members do here. Let's not forget, we are all simply machines, we might be interested today, but we might not tomorrow.

Most of my posts are just reposted articles and excerpts with the links, not too much "spiritual concepts" or essays. The vast majority of blogs I ever put up are not my writings to begin with. Maybe you are right and I should refrain from talking about anything "Spiritual" and just post the links and even refrain to write anything on my own.

Maybe as someone suggested, delete it, or you could stop visiting it for a while and see how that would make you feel. If you feel like writing something that would make you understand something better, then make a blog on your own, and write it for yourself. Your myspace is out there, so if people are interested, they will click on the links. You don't have to be there all the time right? Just try to take a big break from it and perhaps you will see how 'hungry' or 'addicted' you might be to your myspace..

Thanks for the G quote as well, good to contemplate on. I just like to to connect to people in general on the net and talk about all kinds of topics.

''I just like'' ? What are your true reasons behind this? I like to connect to people in general too until I realized that I got totally weared out or I was feeling powerful for having so much information, basically I was feeding and the other was feeding from me. And, talking to one another can also have it's manipulative effects, you might talk in a way to get the other interested. Unless you have mastered External Consideration, which I think is very hard to master. Or you can use these talks to practice EC, but as machines, we tend to forget why we started the conversation..

The articles I post are writings I find interesting. How other readers perceive it, I don't know. Some like it,some don't. I do not try to help "anyone",

Why don't you collect your articles at your own blog if you find them interesting? Or perhaps you find them interesting for others to read?

other than helping to spread the word about SOTT and other articles from other sites. I like Les Visible's articles as well. I'm also aware that the best I ultimately can do for others is to work on myself. I'm just very appreciate of the material by SOTT, so I do my best to get the world out while I keep working on myself.

You can show others about SOTT, simply by posting a link. Posting articles and blogs and whatnot, might not be because you want to link to SOTT, but perhaps you post them for your own reasons. You might think that this is not true, because you think you know yourself, but at least if you want.. consider this as a possibility..



I think that your answer to anart's question would be ''no, I wouldn't'', wouldn't it? If this is your answer, then I think you indeed need time to reflect. Take the time you need, but I can say from my experiences, try to think well about this now when you still remember these posts, because soon you will forget these and you will only listen to yourself. Or so I think.
I should add, it took some time for me as well, to realize some of the things discussed here. I knew that it was not ''right'' what I was doing, but still I continued, only time made me REALIZE my true reasons behind my actions. So now I stopped doing that and finally have time to do some Work on myself, but this was my case. I'm not sure about yours, perhaps you need time as well, all I can say is, some really good mirrors have been shown to you in this thread, what anart and PF saw, I didn't see at first. It's interesting how others can see sides of you that you perhaps have never known.

 

[nicklebleu]

Reading this thread has been very elucidating for me, I have realized - again - that I have mechanisms that I don't yet fully understand and control.

I have so far been of the opinion, that, if someone asks genuinely, an answer to that questions should be given as well as I can. That's what I have been doing in the past. But from what I can see now, the problems with this approach is - as brought up by other member of this forum - that a) one first has to be able to discern, if the asking is done GENUINELY, and b) what the APPROPRIATE answer to this question is. I have noticed in this respect a program of self-importance, as well as "to be right". With these programs in place I cannot give justice to the person asking under any circumstances - probably a bit like trying to paint a cup with a spray gun! In fact, as someone suggested earlier, I may actually produce some damage.

I agree with anart, that it is not possible to "lead" someone to the Work - it happens. My way to the work was very contortuous and - looking from outside - highly improbable. But I found it. I guess it is a bit the same question, why a "spiritual guru" cannot give you any advice worth anything: Because you have to find the answers yourself; it takes effort and suffering to find truths, they cannot be put into a nice lecture and "off you go" ...

Even on questions like global warming and 911 I found it mostly unhelpful to try to "enlighten" people around me. If someone wants to know, it is actually quite easy to find information. But again a feeling of self-importance and "being right" has made me address this subject many times - without benefit to the other person, only feeding my desires ...

Maybe the worst I did was trying to have my wife read the Wave series - she of course didn't (being quite strongheaded), and I may have spoilt the chance of her taking these books into her hand by herself - lessons again! I now have completely left this subject aside. And this has produced some interesting results: I hate to lead a "double life", I like to be "straightforward" and "truthful" - programs again. It's quite as anart suggested: Try not saying anything, and you may discover sides of your personality that were unknown to you. Or as someone suggested: delete your Myspace account - just for the sake of it, you may learn something about you ...

Bernard, no one is trying to judge you - as anart said, you are free to do what you want. But you addressed this issue on this forum, and an answer shall be given. You can use this answer to your own advantage - or not. Again it is your life and choice.

Whenever I post something on this forum that is not very "enlighted" and I attract the feedback I deserve, I just try to swallow my pride and plod ahead - that's all you can do: Learn the lessons! Best is to learn them straight away, or you will have to re-attend classes again and again ...

 

[PepperFritz]

I do have a journal that I write in....

But that was not the question. The question was "What does that audience provide to you that a private journal and/or this forum do not?" It is interesting that you either cannot or will not answer that question, nor the one posed by Anart ("If you knew that not one other soul would read what you've written there, would you still write it?")

...and the few blogs I write are intended to be read by others, for the same reason why people have blogs in general.

What reason is that? I honestly don't know. Could you elaborate? Also, I don't think everyone has a blog for the same reasons. What we're trying to get at is why YOU have a blog.

I wouldn't say every blog I put up automatically leads to feeding and self-importance.... I do not try to help "anyone"....

How would you know that, since you seem to be unable to clearly state your reasons for having a public blog/myspace in which to talk about "spiritual concepts"?

Maybe you are right and I should refrain from talking about anything "Spiritual" and just post the links and even refrain to write anything on my own.

You keep missing the point. No one here is telling you what you should or should not do. But we are asking you to try and look objectively at WHY you are doing what you're doing, and it is this that you are avoiding.

I just like to to connect to people in general on the net and talk about all kinds of topics....

The following quote from Jeanne de Salzmann is pertinent:

You have no measure with which to measure yourselves. You live exclusively according to “I like” or “I don’t like,” you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you—theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.

 

[Bernhard]

Hi all,

As, I said I'm just reflecting and I'm not avoiding questions. I take everything that is being said here into account and appreciate the input, so I can see myself more objectively and come to a better understanding of why I do what I do.

The main reason, Pepper Fritz, as far as I see it now, why I post articles and blogs on myspace is to get information out there for the ones who choose to read it and share my thoughts here and there. As I said before, most of the blogs are not even my thoughts to begin with, but just articles and excerpts I found interesting and it seems some "friends" on my network like the same material and occasionally thank me for having put something they really liked up and found insightful. If I respond to this in terms of "self-importance" or "feeding" because someone thanked me for it, I need to examine and see in myself how I take a "compliment" and attention I get like this in terms of "the work" and feeding off it or not.
This examination of myself in regards to myspace and life (self-importance/external consideration) in general has actually already started before anart mentioned this, so some of what is being said here I already started to think about since I became more familiar with G's work and in particular Self-Importance and External Consideration, especially as of late after having read it again. However, this here is another catalyst to be more conscious about it all and I do appreciate the input and I do recognize the value in it. I'm not taking it "personal". It is a process for me and I'm giving my "best" so to speak.

I do share my thoughts here on the forum as well, but I like to share my thoughts somewhere else else well and with people/friends who are not on here, also considering that I had a myspace account before I joined here. I suppose that is the general "reason" why people have blogs. Most bloggers share "their thoughts" and everyone for different reasons on a more specific level.
I'm not pushing it on anyone. It's simply there for display. Looking at the hits of readers my site is attracting and sign up for the blog, it seems people like it and enjoy it. Again, if this is something I feed of, hence do it more mechanically to keep my "food source" or just see it as opportunity for networking in relation to STO (as networking is STO, I remember the C's saying), I need to confront in myself.
I hardly "add friends" myself. I do not promote myself either by sending blog-invites. Anyone familiar with myspace knows what that is. Many people repost the articles I have up on their site as well (with link to the original article like SOTT or other sites) or on the bulletin and it snowballs from there. Myspace is a vast network than can reach a lot of people all over the world. How one uses this network depends on the intent.

So to answer your question "If you knew that not one other soul would read what you've written there, would you still write it?"
Some yes, some not. Some actually comes from old journal writings I thought I'd just put up but where never intended to be put up publicly while writing it. I think this question can be related to all bloggers and writers and I'm sure most of them write with an intent that it will be read by others, including the many contributions on alternative news websites, or anyone else in this world who wants to share their thoughts on the net. What motivation behind it is in in others in terms of "self-importance" and "feeding" I have no idea, but maybe even the ones, whose writings some of us have enjoyed over the years, may "feed off" the attention/feedback they are getting. I have no idea and I'm not accusing anyone. I'm simply trying to look at the whole idea of "blogging" in general in light of "the work". And yes, I know this is not about others, but me, I was just elaborating a bit here.

How I feel about myself doing this, I'm in the process of examining. So far I don't see it ALL coming from Self-Importance or just trying to feed me, however I'm not denying that some part may on some level, as I'm still mechanical in many ways. So I'm not avoiding what you think I'm avoiding, Pepper Fritz. I'm simply reflecting on it and I hope you can understand that.
In regards to the suggestion of just putting links up, I did that in the past, but people seem to like to read any given article within myspace. That I can see from the responses. However, everything is linked and I know that for that reason many people start checking out SOTT on their own, based on the responses I've gotten as well , as some also repost articles from SOTT they find interesting themselves on their blog or bulletin and explore on their own. But I also do not only post articles from SOTT, so it is not an extension by any means. It also seems that a "blog" would entail more than a link, osit.

For now I'm doing nothing on myspace until I have a better understanding of myself within this. I know I can do "whatever" I want to do in terms of posting and blogging and I know you are not telling me what to do, other than giving suggestions and helping to see it more objectively. I also understand in line of "the work" on here that I need to examine why I do what I do in my life in general.

The question came up how I'd feel if I'd delete my account? Well, I'd be mostly bit sad because of the great connections I have made from people all over the globe, some of them I got to meet in real life and developed into true friendship. It also helps to stay in contact with many "real life" friends to whom I'm not physically connected anymore, like from Europe, where I grew up. And I'm connected with part of my family through it as well. I understand that similar connections are also available on this forum, but sometimes it is nice to talk to folks on the net outside the intent this forum is about or with people who are not drawn to this line of work on here. Many connections and interactions I have on myspace has nothing to do with any "spiritual concepts", world events or SOTT. For example , being a drummer and big music fan, I've found amazing artists on myspace, especially underground electronic music which has not much chance to come to the surface through mainstream ways. So I'm always happy to stumble upon new artists. I just found that Sweden is a gem for downtempo Ambient music and I'm rather excited to have found these amazing musicians and even more exciting that I can "talk" to them through myspace and have a "geek talk" about the newest music software or what not. etc... Anyway, this just comes up when contemplating on the idea about deleting my account.

But anyhow, I understand what the point is here as mentioned in my first sentence and I'm contemplating on it. Most of it are lessons in Self-Importance, External Consideration and being more aware of my machine. If deleting my myspace account is the "solution", I don't know. myspace may actually also help me more in the process of learning external consideration and becoming more aware of my machine and uncounscious mechanisims.

Excuse me, if I don't address all the questions directly and immediately. I hope all what I wrote doesn't come as trying to "justify" anything. I was just responding to some questions and elaborating more on it, trying to be as "objective" as possible. As I said, I need more time with this. Thank you.

 

[nicklebleu]

Just one more thing ...

I think that you misunderstand the issue of blogging. What has been talked about in this thread is not blogging per se - it is incorporating "spiritual guidance" in blogs. Of course blogging is all about contact to others, sharing thoughts and pictures and getting feedback from others - that's the purpose. And there's nothing wrong about that. I use a blog to keep in contact with distant family members - kind of a "public where-I-am-and-what-I-do" ...

So the matter is again not the blog per se, but giving advice to others, in whatever shape or form - notoriously tricky and fraught with danger.

 

[Bernhard]

Thanks, nicklebleu, I understand that. I was just responding to some questions. As I said before, most of my blogs have nothing to do with "spiritual" guidance, nor do I think I give any "spiritual guidance" by posting excerpts and quotes from various "spiritual" sources (whatever "spiritual" means anyway), not even my own words, unless posting third party excerpts is considered "spiritual guidance". Maybe indirectly through inspiration? After all it is "my space", so lots of postings are subjective and stuff I like, so I think, maybe others like it to and can get something out of that, but I do not "guide" nor "advise" or push it on anyone.
No one writes to me asking for "spiritual" advice, apart from a handful of cases (literally 5 or 6 over the course of four years) where someone asked for some advice in a particular life situation. I wouldn't even call it "spiritual". Each time that happened I write back saying that I can't give any advice since I can't clearly see the situation myself and what works for me might not work for you. I can state my opinion from friend to friend but I make clear that he/she has to know for him/herself in the end of how to proceed. I then only suggest some books that have helped me in my life, but making clear that I'm also a work in progress and learn the lesson called life and we all have our own individual lessons. This is how I react in general to anyone who asks me for advice, not only on myspace, but in "real" life as well. This I did before I even joined this forum two years ago, so on some level I am aware of external consideration, I suppose.

Some people simply like what they read on my site and it seems to help them on some level or inspires them, so they say at least (much of it has nothing to do with "spiritual concepts" anyway), the same as I get inspired and insights by reading blogs (excerpts and original) on other people's myspace or on the net in general. When I read an inspiring excerpt from some book someone posted, I go out and buy the book myself, thankign the person who posted it, so I could read it. I don't get contacted personally that often or being asked for advice at all. I think some you may be projecting too much into this for what it actually is. However, I do take everything into consideration and think about, in particular in terms of "feeding", external consideration and self-importance.

 

[anart]

Hi Bernhard, at this point it appears you have little interest in truly delving into this and in actually Seeing yourself objectively.  At this point, I really see no purpose in continuing the conversation just to have you continue to defend your behavior and assure yourself and others that you are not feeding or acting solely to build up your own ego and self-importance via coming across and 'wise' and 'spiritually knowledgeable' to those who read 'your blog'.  You appear to be quite content to continue on as you have been - that is your choice, but I think this forum has spent enough time and energy attempting to assist you to See yourself, when you are not willing to do that sincerely, or to at least expend sincere effort in the attempt.

 

[Bernhard]

Hi anart, I'm making an effort here, but I'm trying to respond while trying to look at myself more objectively.
I will stop responding for a while and really just contemplate. I'm not trying to come across as anything, other than expressing myself in various ways based on my current level of "being" and understanding and I'm sure I do not understand many things and I have ego issues like everyone else. What other people project into me I have no control over, even on here. Sometimes what you call "objective observation" on your part or others may also not entirely be correct, but I'm also not saying it is totally wrong. I am not content to continue like "this" and I keep reflecting on it. I will stay away from here for a while for that purpose. Thank you for your time and energy. I really just need to let it all sink in.

 

[anart]

Hi anart, I'm making an effort here, but I'm trying to respond while trying to look at myself more objectively.

No, you aren't.  You are defending yourself.  You are assuming that your own view of yourself is correct.  You are dreaming you are a magician.

I will stop responding for a while and really just contemplate.

If you do not take what has been said here as the truth, or very, very close to the truth, then 'contemplation' will likely be you reassuring yourself that what has been written here is 'wrong' - that only you 'know' yourself - it can be no other way.

I'm not trying to come across as anything, other than expressing myself in various ways based on my current level of "being" and understanding and I'm sure I do not understand many things. 

This is a lie to the self.

What other people project into me I have no control over, even on here.

This is not true - what you project you do indeed have control over and it IS a two way street.  What you desire, your motivation, your 'undercurrent' comes across quite strongly in what you do and say - this is true of everyone.  Yet - here you are - yet AGAIN assuring yourself that what has been presented to you is not true.  Enough already.

Sometimes what you call "objective observation" on your part or others may also not entirely be correct, but I'm also not saying it is totally wrong. I am not content to continue like "this" and I keep reflecting on it. I will stay away from here for a while for that purpose.

And that, Bernhard, is 'deflection 101'.  If you are not sincere about any of this, then this forum may not be for you.

"You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life
is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive,
blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any
obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the
attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has
no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due,
simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! None of this
strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one world separate
from another world.

You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life
is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive,
blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any
obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the
attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has
no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due,
simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! None of this
strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one world separate
from another world.

You have no measure with which to measure yourselves. You live
exclusively according to “I like” or “I don’t like,” you have no
appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above
you—theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you
are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that
you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize
nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I
repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes
and dislikes.

Yes, your “appreciation of yourself” blinds you. It is the biggest
obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this
threshold, before going further. This test divides men into two kinds:
the “wheat” and the “chaff.” No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how
brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of
himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work
toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is
all his life. The first requirement, the first condition, the first test
for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of
himself. He must not imagine, not simply believe or think, but see
things in himself which he has never seen before, see them actually. His
appreciation will never be able to change as long as he sees nothing in
himself. And in order to see, he must learn to see; this is the first
initiation of man into self-knowledge.

First of all, he has to know what he must look at. When he knows, he
must make efforts, keep his attention, look constantly with persistence.
Only through maintaining his attention, and not forgetting to look, one
day, perhaps, he will be able to see. If he sees one time he can see a
second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see.
This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it
is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to
become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by
our reality.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too
highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect
myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other
parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the
respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my
relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures—talent, education,
culture, genius—are changing measures, measures of detail. The only
exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the
measure of inner vision. I see—I see myself—by this, you have measured.
With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also
real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will
lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay
dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay,
pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By
sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared
to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification,
the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become
acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the
dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard
cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your
rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your “I
like” and “I don’t like.” Without bargaining, honestly, without
pretending. Trying “sincerely” to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe
yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to
yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all
your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot
control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere.
Your relations with others—lies. The upbringing you give, the
conventions—lies. Your teaching—lies. Your theories, your art—lies. Your
social life, your family life—lies. And what you think of yourself—lies
also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are
saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and
observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea
of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without
self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality,
perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in
yourself until this day. You will see that you are different from what
you think you are. You will see that you are two. One who is not, but
takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so
weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately
disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away.
He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance.
Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two
natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When
you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be
born."

You have been given an invaluable opportunity here and you cannot see past yourself to take the first step. What Mme de Salzmann wrote is the Objective Truth - it is not just a collection of words that sounds inspiring; a collection of words that does not apply to 'Bernhard' because he is special and different - it is the TRUTH - and all evidence at this point is that you have no interest in the Truth.  As always, this is your choice, but please do not expect this forum to stand idly by and accept your lies to yourself and your lies to this forum - it does not work that way.

 

[Bernhard]

If you do not take what has been said here as the truth, or very, very close to the truth, then 'contemplation' will likely be you reassuring yourself that what has been written here is 'wrong' - it can be no other way.

I'm contemplating on it and take it to be the truth, even though I can't put it into practice right away and not see it immeditaly. I can see myself defending and I hope not to re-assure myself as to keep lying to myself. However, I just need time to reflect on all this, and hopefully return to this forum if I truly get it.

 

[Azur]

. I just need time to reflect on all this, and hopefully return to this forum if I truly get it.

Remember this: whether you return to this forum or not, is not at issue. Make sure that "going away" from this forum isn't used to placate what you're dealing with as an avenue to deflect what has been shown you. Here or somewhere else, you'll have to see yourself to make progress. That is, if you really want to.

 

[Tigersoap]

Re: Why The Secrecy?

I don't know how to say this, but I think I am as guilty as Bernhard then.
I thought that by sometimes using what I do and the few "fame" I got and turn it into something meaningful (God knows I think this is a joke even though due to my line of work I have to keep up appareances and play the game) I could deflect people to the SOTT, if interested.

Is it always self-serving ? I am maybe deluding myself but I know I am not Doing anything, it just happens, I am just a machine and yet to me it has nearly become impossible to untangle what I learned in this forum with what I do.
There is no point in continuing doing what I do if there isn't a real background to which I can get inspired from.
I can even say that it has become an exercise in external consideration to work for other people, meeting their needs and desires, because frankly I see all the self-importance involved in the kind of works I am doing.

I wish I could have been anonymous forever but it has proved to be impossible, and I think this was a trap somehow, to feed the need left by a starving self-worth.
I still derive pleasure and pride from it but it nearly always left a taste of aspartam instead of honey.
I would still create, even if I was shut off the internet though, the rest is becoming more and more accessory.

And yet another good opportunity these last few months to feel sick and confused about myself :| :)

(Sorry if I hijacked the thread.)

[This post and the posts following it were moved from here - due to taking that thread off course - for full background, go to original thread.]


Laura's NOTICE: I have restored the split-off posts to this topic because it is impossible to follow the development otherwise. Indeed, the thread was taken off-topic, but that actually happened quite a bit earlier. Instead of dealing with general questions about "Why the secrecy?" it became something of a soapbox for Bernhard which then morphed into a "mirror" for Bernhard.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Why The Secrecy?

I don't know how to say this, but I think I am as guilty as Bernhard then.
I thought that by sometimes using what I do and the few "fame" I got and turn it into something meaningful (God knows I think this is a joke even though due to my line of work I have to keep up appareances and play the game) I could deflect people to the SOTT, if interested.

Why would we want to determin the needs of others anyways?

Is it always self-serving ? I am maybe deluding myself but I know I am not Doing anything, it just happens, I am just a machine and yet to me it has nearly become impossible to untangle what I learned in this forum with what I do.
There is no point in continuing doing what I do if there isn't a real background to which I can get inspired from.
I can even say that it has become an exercise in external consideration to work for other people, meeting their needs and desires, because frankly I see all the self-importance involved in the kind of works I am doing.

This is all fwiw :

I hope you know what you're doing. Sure you can practice EC, but sometimes, as I said before, we tend to forget the first reason behind starting a conversation.
I start a conversation to practice EC, but then I already forgot it and I'm ''pushing'' the other to read ISOTM, for example. Also, some times, ''I do this to practice EC'', might also be a good excuse for the ' ''mean'' I's '.
Perhaps this could be a part of the lesson, considering External Consideration. That's why, very well observation of the self, is imo very important. So basically when we are around our food, we might forget to observe well thus it becomes hard to practice EC. I used to talk too with others in the hopes of practicing EC while having a conversation, it didn't work for me, it was too tiring and I wasn't practicing anything at all. Perhaps there was some realization that helps me in conversations now. I learned that having assumptions about others can be tiring, just like determining the needs of others. Why should I put so much time and energy for others so that they can MAYBE start doing the Work as I am doing? Or why should I determin their needs and then feel like I am a hero about doing so? I learned that others are not interested, or they might be interested, but not that interested as they would really invest work on it. Exactly how Richard Dolan described how he was interested in UFO's before: he was interested, but not that interested in it to start REALLY working on it.

Just links will do enough, because if people are 'ready', I think they will find it some way or the other.
Have you or Bernhard read ISOTM's part about how knowledge is/can be matter? How some people are unable to get some of this gold, or that they simply don't want it? So is it a bad thing that I keep this for myself? As Laura adviced, you can try to practice how you can drop hints on the right time when having conversations etc. But putting so much energy and time in to something that might not even work? I tried it and I learned, so perhaps it is your time to learn at your own pace, but keep all of this in your mind while continueing. But there is also a possibility that you will continue what you do to the end. That you will not try to change something that your machine loves. And this is, of course, your choice. Or perhaps a choice made by you. But those who don't put effort in the Work, is a one-way road and perhaps only time will tell what will happen.

I wish I could have been anonymous forever but it has proved to be impossible, and I think this was a trap somehow, to feed the need left by a starving self-worth.
I still derive pleasure and pride from it but it nearly always left a taste of aspartam instead of honey.
I would still create, even if I was shut off the internet though, the rest is becoming more and more accessory.

And yet another good opportunity these last few months to feel sick and confused about myself :| :)

I'm not sure what to advice, I think good advices (and mirrors) has been given (and shown) to Bernhard to which you could listen as well. I can say this; you can try to take a break from it and see what happens..

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Why The Secrecy?

Tigersoap, I didn't completely understand your post, but this may just be me ...

Remember, we are all 3D STS, so we are all having our little prides, self-importance and all these other programs. I think that it is not possible to get rid of these programs overnight, all this requires a lot of effort and time. We are all really in the same boat. What counts imo is that one works on these programs and tries to "self-remember" as often as possible - then one day all the rest will start to make sense. Am I externally considering or just putting on a mechanical substitute to feed my ego and wishful thinking? I think that at this stage I am unable to see the difference, but I also think that this point will - in time - become self-evident, if one starts to know himself better. So what counts is putting in honest effort.

Please correct me if I am wrong ...