2020 US Election - Let The Games Begin!

My "problem" is that you accused those of us asking for critical analysis of engaging in censorship, which is far from what is being asked.

Anyone who is using their brain can determine potential outcomes, and the point is that we are a network who is supposed to be analysing information, and it's not happening at the level some have come to expect from this forum. That this would be framed as "censure" as you said is worth pointing out.
Actually, Censure means the expression of disapproval, not censorship, and that’s how I took it. I assume @Heather meant it that way, but I might be wrong.
Once again, I am using Trump for my talking points. He is not giving up.

Why people are getting "personal" here when we are all just trying to put out the various outcomes is beyond me. I don't understand it.

I am anything but "new agey." Give me a break.
Heather, there’s nothing personal about what Pearce and I are saying. It’s an attempt to help you re-examine your thought process, because I see that you’re not willing to let this go. It’s not about surrendering or anything. I too would love to see Trump getting the upper hand, but there is very little credible evidence pointing in that direction. The fact that Trump doesn’t seem to be giving up says nothing about what the reality of the situation is. Hitler didn’t give up either, until he (arguably) commited suicide, but he could have know that he’s toast since the battle of Stalingrad. Maybe Trump is just trying to save face and not appear like he’s leaving his supporters out to dry. That’s a much more realistic analysis in my opinion. This whole “Trump is about to release everything and raise the military” smells the same as the Kraken BS and Q’s “trust the plan” nonsense. You can still hold out hope, but be realistic. Should we also hold out hope that the Corona fascism will be defeated by the actions of one person overnight? If there was someone saying that they would do this, would you trust them?
 
Once again, I am using Trump for my talking points. He is not giving up.

Why people are getting "personal" here when we are all just trying to put out the various outcomes is beyond me. I don't understand it.

I am anything but "new agey." Give me a break.

If I could interject... Trump not giving up doesn't correlate to him being able to do something about the situation.

What can he do? An answer is simply not enough, one must be able to demonstrate why they think he can do this. There must be some sort of basis to what we can see / have seen. Hearsay from anonymous sources again I don't think cuts it by itself.

Essentially what those who believe Trump can do something are asking for, perhaps without knowing it, is emotional investment from the rest. Perhaps more than that, they may also be asking for hope and faith. The thing is, these things aren't free, there's a cost to the person who gives it. Everytime they give it and get nothing back, it takes something away from them. Take enough of this something from them and they eventually become cynical.

So you must understand what you're asking from others and what the costs are. In a way, if you really cared about others you would take this into account and also take some responsibility for it.

Fwiw.
 
Actually, Censure means the expression of disapproval, not censorship, and that’s how I took it. I assume @Heather meant it that way, but I might be wrong.

Heather, there’s nothing personal about what Pearce and I are saying. It’s an attempt to help you re-examine your thought process, because I see that you’re not willing to let this go. It’s not about surrendering or anything. I too would love to see Trump getting the upper hand, but there is very little credible evidence pointing in that direction. The fact that Trump doesn’t seem to be giving up says nothing about what the reality of the situation is. Hitler didn’t give up either, until he (arguably) commited suicide, but he could have know that he’s toast since the battle of Stalingrad. Maybe Trump is just trying to save face and not appear like he’s leaving his supporters out to dry. That’s a much more realistic analysis in my opinion. This whole “Trump is about to release everything and raise the military” smells the same as the Kraken BS and Q’s “trust the plan” nonsense. You can still hold out hope, but be realistic. Should we also hold out hope that the Corona fascism will be defeated by the actions of one person overnight? If there was someone saying that they would do this, would you trust them?
This is just foolishness you're talking. And remember, we shouldn't be offering help to those who don't request it. I am not requesting it.
 
The head of the house D/R the head of the senate D/R need term limits just like the president and VP. If you can’t cut off the head of the dragon it doesn’t die.

there is a video clear as day of Pence (moments before certifying the vote) receiving a coin like object from two Men and after receiving coin and saying thank you Nancy (or should I say the real President) goes over to Pence and makes a literal elbow rubbing motion 3x before he notices. How did she know what just happened why go over to rub elbows with a republican about to make a decision you don’t know about? (

Who were those two men that gave Pence a coin like object 30min before the biggest decision in current government. What did Nancy know about that moment? She wouldn’t make a repeated friendly gesture to Pence if she didn’t know.

If the Cs don’t 100% know what the future holds within 3 weeks of an event then there is no way we will. The future is fluid and revivals itself based on events stacked up one after the other and that narrows down possibilities until something happens

Putin said you can’t do what you want in US Government because of “bureaucracy ” to me those two men represent apart of bureaucracy and Nancy is more the head of it than the president is.

The people and things in play the influences and circumstances that matter we are not privy to.
They won’t reveal themselves

Why invest in people with term limits? The powers at be wouldn’t.
 
If I could interject... Trump not giving up doesn't correlate to him being able to do something about the situation.

What can he do? An answer is simply not enough, one must be able to demonstrate why they think he can do this. There must be some sort of basis to what we can see / have seen. Hearsay from anonymous sources again I don't think cuts it by itself.

Essentially what those who believe Trump can do something are asking for, perhaps without knowing it, is emotional investment from the rest. Perhaps more than that, they may also be asking for hope and faith. The thing is, these things aren't free, there's a cost to the person who gives it. Everytime they give it and get nothing back, it takes something away from them. Take enough of this something from them and they eventually become cynical.

So you must understand what you're asking from others and what the costs are. In a way, if you really cared about others you would take this into account and also take some responsibility for it.

Fwiw.
Seriously. Why are we wasting our time with this, when we should be furthering our research and understanding? End this and move on to something useful. We are here offering possibilities regarding what's afoot. Leave it at that, and stop psychoanalyzing. It's getting annoying.
 
Seriously. Why are we wasting our time with this, when we should be furthering our research and understanding? End this and move on to something useful. We are here offering possibilities regarding what's afoot. Leave it at that, and stop psychoanalyzing. It's getting annoying.

Not psychoanalyzing... Just saying.

There's a real danger of driving people to cynicism. 😕

Fyi, not against you @Heather. It's just a general comment based on what's emerging.
 
Not psychoanalyzing... Just saying.

There's a real danger of driving people to cynicism. 😕
Let's not act like the Left. We're made of sterner stuff. No one is driving anyone here to anything. We're looking at serious stuff. Trump, in not stepping down, is engaging in serious, potentially dangerous stuff. So, let's keep looking, see what we can discern. It's apparent on the news they're using the "Storming the Capitol" red flag operation to get him impeached (just took a peek at CNN). So, there's a clock ticking here too.
 
I quit Firefox years ago (Google as well), and switched to Duck Duck Go (I believe that was a recommendation I received here, IIRC). Anyhow that’s worked great for me for the last 3-4 years. I just downloaded Brave after reading here, and am giving it a shot as well. Thanks for the recommendations friends!
 
Once again, I am using Trump for my talking points. He is not giving up.

Why people are getting "personal" here when we are all just trying to put out the various outcomes is beyond me. I don't understand it.

I am anything but "new agey." Give me a break.
Heather, To let you know, I didn't took it personally to reply to this. I am only telling my views. I could be wrong though. Being there and done that ("o and So alignment will happen on that day, sit in meditation, chant this" type of thing) enough number of times in my new age days, I can say, it is not only deceptive and it is waste of energy. That has to go with knowledge of what is possible. These Q, 'Trump somehow will raise', 'military sources said so and so things' are no way different.

IMHO Whether Trump gives up or not, it doesn't matter. Does he have enough control over nuts and bolts of monstrously complex US system is important. For all 4 years it was clear that he didn't have control, though he made some good progress in the end. Is that sufficient enough? Election saga says it is not. Some thing magically change now? I am not optimistic. Trump or anybody could do nothing when the whistleblowers lives are threatened for telling the election malpractices.

Take a simple case of trap on Jan 6th that effectively nullified every thing that is done by 2 months of expose of deep state and 70 or so million people's wishes. I am sure those people who ran into the trap and even got killed also wished to save the nation along with few people wants to make some bucks. How? It is lack of knowledge of traps or control of nuts and bolts of protest organization. That's why deep state could get away with simple trap.

Actually Opposite to hope is happening - people are reporting on their family members, colleagues etc. This is hardcore Nazi end game. Under those circumstances, we can't ignore the reality with just blind hopes. Believe me, I too want hope, that is what keeps us going. But we can't ignore the practicalities.
 
FWIW, I have spent many years working with generals. 95% of them are politicians. Their main job is to not only represent but keep everyone motivated and happy (no problem lying, the mission comes first blah blah). Any military that can make BIG decisions could already retire with full benefits or are within a few years of retirement with a cushy job lined up waiting for them. Most of them have spent their careers getting ready for that next job. They have also sat through enough bad administrations to not risk a pension.

Also, the US government is notorious for not getting things done in a timely or efficient manner. Everything also requires 100 signatures to do something as simple as change toilet paper. But you guys can feel free to believe that Obama conspired with 15 different countries to pull this off even though he couldn't even get Obamacare finished.
 
@dredger apologies if my words were taken to imply that you were fooling yourself, that's not what I meant. As far as evidence, I think it should be pretty evident that at the least, the military generals at large and those in command are not aligned with Trump. Whether or not the rank and file would follow the orders of Trump or the generals remains to be seen. If military action were called upon, certainly I would hope they wouldn't blindly follow the orders of their generals, as we know they do not have the American people, or any people of the world for that matter, in their best interest.

And I agree wholeheartedly that self defense is sometimes very much necessary. But what I was getting at is if the martial law card was played, and major infrastructure such as grid failures or communication blackouts ensued, then all of a sudden the people on the ground are in much more an immediate danger than before. People such as your neighbor may decide all of a sudden that you have more resources, or better living accomodations than they, and the looting and rioting and killing will ensure. Who will protect them then, other than themselves, when the army is busy going after the political criminals, and in many states the police are just as corrupt? It just makes the situation much more volatile, and in the efforts of protecting the citizenry, many more may die as a result. Not every state here still has their guns after all.

As far as my best scenario? It would involve more bridge building than burning, more open dialogue with others we disagree with, less neagtive emotional reactions and more open heart human to human connection. Is it feasible? Probably not, and as you say, time is running out.

The biggest problem is that it took until the 11th hour for most people to finally see a glimpse of the truth, those that did at all. No situation going forward is likely to succeed, in the overall terms in which we would hope. There is no going back to how things were anymore, not without Divine intervention. And if that takes the form of weather or comets, is it any different than military chaos? I'd agree that no, it isn't.

I don't think your hopes or wishes are wrongly founded. I know you have the best wishes for all at the front of your mind and heart. I've just come to realize lately, to try to be really careful what it is I think I'm wishing for, and to try to delay my moment of observation until all options have been exhausted, and I know, a great many of them have been exhausted already. I hope that makes sense, ie observation collapses the wave function which means less potentialities.
 
Just my own reflections on this debate, analyzing my own internal reactions and thought processes.

First, the last few days have been grueling. Well, the last year has been trying, but the last few days especially so. It's very difficult to separate myself from my emotions, and I've found myself compulsively doomscrolling. I know I'm not alone in this. Since I attended the rally on 6/1, I've got a certain amount of skin in the game - while I didn't do anything illegal, that might not matter, and obviously it would be very easy for the feds to know I was there (eg cell phone location data). This makes it harder to be objective.

Trump's apparent concession really hit me in the gut. The most obvious interpretation is that he's throwing in the towel, the boot is going to come down, and the lights are about to go out. My head is telling me that's the most likely outcome. My heart doesn't want to believe it.

Pearce pointed out the stages of grief, and yes, for sure - regardless of what is objectively going on, subjectively that is exactly what's happening. What I mean is that it doesn't matter what's really happening, if Trump has really surrendered, or if he's readying some last minute bold move - the psychology of grief is still driving everyone's emotional reaction to this.

What makes it worse is that there is essentially no hard data right now. Rumors are swirling all over the place. Everyone's gut their hot take. Lots of people are claiming inside info, much false, some possibly true ... But impossible to know which. And, what little hard info is out there is often open to interpretation. For instance, is the establishment trying to impeach Trump because they're frightened? Or is it just a calculated move to complete the humiliation and disgrace of the king, that his people's demoralization be made complete? Was Trump's last video the surrender it seemed? Or were the words very carefully chosen? Does one prefer a given interpretation for rational reasons? Or emotional?

It doesn't help that the events of the last year have been so consistently crazy that seemingly unlikely events can be discounted - normal behavior doesn't apply in abnormal times. Then again ... miracles are rare.

It's all a mess, frankly.
 
there is a video clear as day of Pence (moments before certifying the vote) receiving a coin like object from two Men and after receiving coin and saying thank you Nancy (or should I say the real President) goes over to Pence and makes a literal elbow rubbing motion 3x before he notices. How did she know what just happened why go over to rub elbows with a republican about to make a decision you don’t know about? (

Who were those two men that gave Pence a coin like object 30min before the biggest decision in current government. What did Nancy know about that moment? She wouldn’t make a repeated friendly gesture to Pence if she didn’t know.
I surmise that it is a type of symbol/ritual that they didn't want Pence to notice in the moment—sort of like a magic trick. Pence says that he is a Christian, so he probably knows the infamous Judas story. And strangely enough, the object given to Pence when he betrayed Trump mimics when Judas sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.

Nancy was trying to get Pence on track by lightly elbowing him multiple times (it took a few before she got his attention) and perhaps divert him from making any connections from it until far after the deed was done.
 
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