5th of November - V For Vendetta Day!

[RedFox]

My friend and I do the EE breathing program together and I enjoy that a lot. He's a good guy. He really is. It's just I feel that he is so focused on himself and "getting to 4th density" that he doesn't really have time to empathize with someone else let alone someone who has had some mental issues. He doesn't really have time to acknowledge another person's life. Getting to the next level, detoxing, those things are more important to him than the person sitting right next to him. Being weak minded like I am, I wanted to please him and validate his goals and just forget about my own. That's weak I know.

For what its worth this guy seems to have totally missed the mark as to what the Work is about. It can be easily done. But his impact on you (not acknowledging, empathising with or validating you....only thinking of himself) is not a good thing....it actually sounds narcissistic. I hope that he is able to see that, and put your needs (and those of others) above his own.......doing so really is a most important part of the Work.
Without realising it I think you've shown more understanding and empathy than your friend, which ironically probably puts you in a better place to understand the Work. Understanding that its not for you is really quite something. It takes a lot of courage and understanding to realise that!
You have a good head on your shoulders Connie. I hope that you are able to find the support you need to deal with your mental health problems (should you choose to do so).
Quite a few of us here have had to work through things like this (I had my share of battling suicidal thoughts years ago), so just wanted to say you are not alone. And from what you have writtern you are probably stronger than you realise.

I have had to deal with depression for a long time, and found the forum and the Work at a time that helped me start to finish dealing with it (most of the work on my depression I'd done before coming here). The EE breathing program and the diet recommendations have helped me find my feet.
A word of caution, the round breathing portion of the EE program (the Ba Ha part) should not be undertaken by those with brain chemical imbalances (such as bipolar disorders etc), as it can bring up things that you are not ready to process yet.
Even for me it was too much to start with, but you can still do the rest of the program....and I found that doing the pipe breathing and listening to the prayers of the soul before falling to sleep every night has had a very gentle but very deep healing effect on me.
The best part is you don't need to know anything about or be involved with the Work to be doing the breathing and diet.

Take care of yourself

 

[Keit]

It goes beyond the movie. I've been discussing The Wave and The Fourth Way with a friend (who is also on this forum). We meet and discuss things. that's been going on for a month or two now and it is getting very difficult, very complicated, for me. Not him. The movie tonight was just the overwhelming realization that I can't do "The Work". It's very hard for me. I've had severe problems in the past with mental health and well, it's just too hard right now...The Work, The Wave, the psychopaths, all of it. I mean no offence to any of you. I'm the one with the problem.

Being able or willing to introspect and see the reality of personal situation and how the things really are at the moment is already doing the work. :) Sometimes it takes years for people to shatter inner illusions that they are capable of doing anything at all. So you are in a better position than you think.

Good luck with what ever you choose to do with your life. :)

 

[acs]

Thank you everyone for your support. My friend told me this was a good group of people. He was right.

Interestingly enough every night after we finish with the EE program when we step outside and look up at the night sky the Cassiopeia constellation is overhead of my apartment building. It was there last night as well. I'd like to think that is not a coincidence.

Thank you again everyone.

 

[Buddy]

Thank you everyone for your support. My friend told me this was a good group of people. He was right.

Interestingly enough every night after we finish with the EE program when we step outside and look up at the night sky the Cassiopeia constellation is overhead of my apartment building. It was there last night as well. I'd like to think that is not a coincidence.

Thank you again everyone.

Kewl, how about Leo? Can you see Leo also? That's where the C's are beaming from now, OSIT. :D

 

[Nienna]

My friend and I do the EE breathing program together and I enjoy that a lot. He's a good guy. He really is. It's just I feel that he is so focused on himself and "getting to 4th density" that he doesn't really have time to empathize with someone else let alone someone who has had some mental issues. He doesn't really have time to acknowledge another person's life. Getting to the next level, detoxing, those things are more important to him than the person sitting right next to him. Being weak minded like I am, I wanted to please him and validate his goals and just forget about my own. That's weak I know.

It's not that I don't appreciate Gurdjieff on my own or The Wave series on my own. I do. It's just my perception is tainted by my life that when I read those things I get overwhelmed. For example when I read about Don (I forgot his last name) in The Wave committing suicide that completly froze me. I know what that state of mind is like...suicidal mindset. I didn't feel as if I could talk to my friend about this at all. He only seemed interested in doing the breathing and "staying on task." I don't blame him for that really. Afterall who is equipped to talk about mental health issues? Very few people and even fewer psychologist/psychiatrist. I rarely talk about it. My introduction here said nothing about it because...it's just too hard. It's not a state of mind I want to remember let alone invoke sympathy for. Yet, at the same time, I do feel a need for acknowledgement and perhaps that is my weakness too. However, Laura you and others here have given me that acknowledgement and that means a lot to me. It really does. I didn't expect it. I thought all of you would be like my friend, only focused on yourselves, getting to "the next level." So thank you. Thank you very much.

Again, my friend's a good guy. He really is. I don't want you to think bad of him. I certainly don't. He means a lot to me.

Connie, I think that you are more on track than your friend, whose only motivation is to get something for himself. This is pure STS. He is doing all the detox and EE so that he gets something out of it in the end. Wrong! He doesn't even understand the concepts of the Work, the C's, nor this forum. If he were truly collinear, you and your problems would matter to him very much. The fact that they don't shows a lot about him, and it shows that others are not his concern. And that's what we are all about. Healing and knowing ourselves, cleaning our machines, knowing about the world around us - and helping others.

If you have anymore questions, please, come to the forum. We'll do our best to help you with any answers you are looking for.

I salute you for telling us how you feel and what you see in yourself. You do what is best for you. And, as has been said, we will be here when, and if, you are ready to return.

 

[luke wilson]

Connie,

I can somewhat relate to the "staying on task and doing the EE/DIET etc just to get through this density." It reminds me of something a teacher of mine told my class once in this very competitive school I went to when I was young. "Every man for himself and God for us all." It's not a good thing when things get reduced to that level. Pure competition where you might have a similar goal but there is complete lack of empathy between the involved parties. Where people are reduced to working solely for ideas instead of working for/with each other or even acknowledging each other.

I still struggle with this. When you do "the work," What are you doing it for? I am not going to lie, we are humans and we all want the best for ourselves. We want to get through to the next level or we want a good flashy job or to be happy, to be special, to be loved/adored etc etc. Sometimes, the drive for these things can make us forget about others or it puts us against other people. I think you should do what is right for you. I am of the believe that you have seen something that has set off a spark in you and as a consequence your heart/your being/your soul will yearn to know the truth, to know more, to learn more, to be free.

I cant say I know what you will do, or what is the whole deal with your "friendship" but I think if you strip away all the noise from the ego/predators mind and really listen to what your "true self" is telling you, you'll be fine.

They say we fell from an STO state about 300,000 yrs ago and as a result of this fall, we have forgotten who we truly are. A whole maze has been invented inorder to keep us from remembering or figuring things out both about our world or ourselves as individuals. So, if not for anything else, work to discover who you truly are then maybe everything will just fall into place, i.e. work to overcome your mechanical/reactionary nature.

You shouldnt think about the end/culmination of the work, graduation, being on task inorder to pass. I dont think anyone here has seen it, this point of graduation, you might look at qualities that such words imply and they might make you feel inadequate but maybe part of the work is also learning how to handle such a feeling of inadequacy that arises due to facing a seemingly 'monumental' task.

Fulcanelli writes in The Dwellings of The Philosophers

"We must not forget that it is an esoteric science. Consequently, a keen intelligence, an excellent memory, work, and attention aided by a strong will are NOT sufficient qualities to hope to become learned in this subject.

Eventhough I think this quote is referring to alchemy, you can apply it to you because essentially what you are looking for is pretty much what they were looking for, OSIT. So, do things at your own pace and with the qualities you were gifted with. You might think it's hard or you dont have it because of so or so reason but you might be surprised one day. Dont be dictated upon.

Also, if you have read the wave, then you might have come across, the faces/names of God. Shouldnt forget that, running away from something or ignoring a certain face will only result in problems. So, you might not want to do the work because it would "result" in you facing the truth about the world or about yourself or about depression issues that you might have had or still have. Ignoring the truth doesnt make things better. If anything, it makes them worse. Dont let such things hold sway over you. That is how the predators mind works, it plays around with your fears, OSIT. People respond more to fear than any other emotion out there, IMHO.

_http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/grail_6.htm

Another precept of a successful plan for the domination of humanity is:

"love is held by a chain of obligation which, men being selfish, is broken whenever it serves their purpose; but fear is maintained by a dread of punishment which never fails."

In your case, the punishment might be, that you might fail or you just cant do it because of some irrational fear based reason that cant even be put into words... Listen to what your true self is telling you... Maybe the work really isnt for you. For me, personally I see the work, as a way of living better. Living for me, for my soul/essence, not as part of a giant STS machine. You dont want to be mechanical or reactionary. What kind of life is that? A life reduced to a machine whose only job is to be food for those above him/her. Work to be free? How do you get this? By knowing the truth, about your machine/mechanical nature, about the world, about who runs the world, etc etc. What other thing is there to do, if not this??

 

[acs]

Luke and all,

Thank you for your replies. I struggle very much with objective vs. subjective "reality." I lean more toward the latter but I long for the fomer because it provides structure, right and wrong, black and white. But even with the limited understanding I have of science (quantum physics in particular) I'm just not sure how "objective" anything is anymore and therefore I get confused. Ultimately, for me, life is not life without compassion, without doing and being of service to others. I don't know how to grow another heart other than the one I have which wishes only to alleviate the suffering of others, no matter how small, even if it is just carrying groceries out to the car for an old man...I want to help others because I feel them, literally.

I wrote the following over a month ago and handed it to my friend after which he and I began to talk and he told me about this forum and The Wave. I welcome your feedback:

“People only see what they are prepared to see.” Ralph Waldo Emerson

Our perceptions create our reality and those perceptions are brought about by nothing other than the thoughts in our head, which are, in turn, solely based on our conditioning, our circumstances, both past and present, and the beliefs we cling to. Succinctly stated, “The world isn’t being done TO you, it’s being done BY you.” How can it be otherwise? No matter how “objective” the world may seem it will always be viewed through a subjective lens. You and I can agree that the grass is green yet how do I know what green “looks” like to you, for I can never get behind your mind and “see” as you do. My view of the world is likely very different from anyone else, not because of some unique individuality I possess, which is a mere construct of the ego, but due simply to the filters my mind has created over the years, which is, once again, due to circumstances, upbringing, beliefs, etc. One could deduce then that the “view” of the world we “see” is not the objective world, nor will it ever be. The view we have of ourselves is not objective. Everything is filtered. So then, what is “real”?

Nothing. No-thing is “real” until we “collapse the wave function” as Erwin Schrödinger discovered. Until we make a conscious choice (conscious being the key word) only possibilities exist, not actualities. But how do we choose? What do we choose? If we are all so conditioned how do we know which choices to make?

All choices must be made from Love. Love, not as an emotion, not as a feeling, but an entity, a prevailing force as real, yet equally as invisible, as gravity itself. But in order to choose Love, we have to start by cleaning the mind and its filters. The mind responds to whatever we put in it, much like a computer: Input=output. Put in thoughts of selfishness and narcissism, out comes indifference and arrogant individualism. Put in thoughts of fear, anger and sadness, out comes anxiety, depression, and apathy. Put in fabricated stories about ourselves, stories about our relationships, our government, or religion in order to make life more extraordinary, (because just “be-ing” is too ordinary), out comes a fantasy, a creation of the mind with a full cast of characters. Stories are fine. Stories are good. But note that there is a reason why stories of old ended with the phrase “The End.” It denoted that story time was over, and it was just that…only a story. Today we are still telling stories but no one is saying “The End.” I surmise we keep these stories going unended because we are afraid to “just be”, after all silence can be awfully loud.

The alternative of course is to put in our minds thoughts of kindness, compassion, and selfless service, with the hope of alleviating a small amount of suffering for others because “I know what it is like…I’ve been there”(If you can’t go to Heaven, I can’t go either. If you are in Hell now, I’m there with you) and out will come who we as human “be-ings” truly are…Love. Love begets Love, again, not as an emotion but as the ultimate Reality. The Reality I have chosen to live in. The Reality I now choose to “see.” It’s a choice. What are you prepared to see? I’m prepared to “see” Love.

 

[Buddy]

I wrote the following over a month ago and handed it to my friend after which he and I began to talk and he told me about this forum and The Wave. I welcome your feedback...

That was very eloquent. Thanks for sharing it. :)

Since you mentioned Erwin Schrödinger, I will assume you understand what you are really saying and so I would like to add that a lot of subsequent work in Physics has led to the realization that the "participant-observer" now qualifies his/her references to "objectivity" with FAPP (for all practical purposes) to avoid being subjective about objectivity, I would say.

It seems to me that what is objective (and Good) for you in your life, in a given context, at a given 'now', is what is practical for reaching your Aim, OSIT. Assuming a general Aim of growing in knowledge and being.

I was just thinking this might help a little. If not, just disregard.

 

[3DStudent]

I just watched V for Vendetta, just a day late :P. I've only seen it once before and it was on the road. So this time I picked up a lot of things and was able to understand the plot better. It all came together and I understand the whole sequence of events now. That V sure was a clever guy.

Edit: And the movie was quite more intense and emotional to watch it while relaxed and at home. When it was over I had a feeling of relief. I felt a sensation in my stomach too, I think I got my emotional center pretty active.

 

[melatonin]

My all time favourite film.
I love the part when he gives the rose to the the lady doctor, and gives her time to talk - showing her respect before her death.
The message i took from the film was - Being a 'good' person isnt enough, you HAVE to act on it.
Must admit this is the biggest thing that rifes me about humans.
Id rather someone be blatantly bad, than pretend they are 'full of love and light', without having one ounce of courage if their integrity is ever tested.
At least the former has the courage to show their true colours.
All this ' feeling at one with the human race, and loving everyone' - is really a narcassistic way of wanting everyone to love you.
This is why i also loath this new age crap that violence doesnt solve anything.
Thats why V is so cool! Hes the most kick-ass superhero ever!

Especially when i can no longer identify with Batman as being a 'good guy'. I actually wanted Joker to kick his ass in the last film.

 

[Laura]

Very good points, melatonin, but we don't want to take the metaphor TOO seriously. I think there are other approaches than some of the extreme violence in the movie. Yes, killing the leaders was, effectively, cutting off the head of Medusa or the Hyda, but maybe that can be done a different way than falling to the level of the psychopath. The most important thing to me was the unification of purpose of the people. But then, yes, one has to figure out a way to "cut off the head of the Gorgon" so that there is not a bloodbath because, certainly, psychopaths think nothing of mowing down all resistance.

A lot to think about.

 

[luke wilson]

“People only see what they are prepared to see.” Ralph Waldo Emerson

Our perceptions create our reality and those perceptions are brought about by nothing other than the thoughts in our head, which are, in turn, solely based on our conditioning, our circumstances, both past and present, and the beliefs we cling to. Succinctly stated, “The world isn’t being done TO you, it’s being done BY you.” How can it be otherwise? No matter how “objective” the world may seem it will always be viewed through a subjective lens. You and I can agree that the grass is green yet how do I know what green “looks” like to you, for I can never get behind your mind and “see” as you do. My view of the world is likely very different from anyone else, not because of some unique individuality I possess, which is a mere construct of the ego, but due simply to the filters my mind has created over the years, which is, once again, due to circumstances, upbringing, beliefs, etc. One could deduce then that the “view” of the world we “see” is not the objective world, nor will it ever be. The view we have of ourselves is not objective. Everything is filtered. So then, what is “real”?

Nothing. No-thing is “real” until we “collapse the wave function” as Erwin Schrödinger discovered. Until we make a conscious choice (conscious being the key word) only possibilities exist, not actualities. But how do we choose? What do we choose? If we are all so conditioned how do we know which choices to make?

All choices must be made from Love. Love, not as an emotion, not as a feeling, but an entity, a prevailing force as real, yet equally as invisible, as gravity itself. But in order to choose Love, we have to start by cleaning the mind and its filters. The mind responds to whatever we put in it, much like a computer: Input=output. Put in thoughts of selfishness and narcissism, out comes indifference and arrogant individualism. Put in thoughts of fear, anger and sadness, out comes anxiety, depression, and apathy. Put in fabricated stories about ourselves, stories about our relationships, our government, or religion in order to make life more extraordinary, (because just “be-ing” is too ordinary), out comes a fantasy, a creation of the mind with a full cast of characters. Stories are fine. Stories are good. But note that there is a reason why stories of old ended with the phrase “The End.” It denoted that story time was over, and it was just that…only a story. Today we are still telling stories but no one is saying “The End.” I surmise we keep these stories going unended because we are afraid to “just be”, after all silence can be awfully loud.

The alternative of course is to put in our minds thoughts of kindness, compassion, and selfless service, with the hope of alleviating a small amount of suffering for others because “I know what it is like…I’ve been there”(If you can’t go to Heaven, I can’t go either. If you are in Hell now, I’m there with you) and out will come who we as human “be-ings” truly are…Love. Love begets Love, again, not as an emotion but as the ultimate Reality. The Reality I have chosen to live in. The Reality I now choose to “see.” It’s a choice. What are you prepared to see? I’m prepared to “see” Love.

I think this is quite amazing connie. Very elegant.

With regard to the highlighted bit, I think what makes the universe elegant or perfect is that it isnt perfect or elegant - it might be relatively easy to quantify perfection but I think it is near impossible to quantify imperfection, i think imperfection is where the real beauty lies. That it gives us choice thus enables us to grow, to learn and itself to evolve. So, I dont think that input=output ultimately even at this level. This is why I think STS is always in constant struggle trying to control and why maybe it cannot achieve its main objective which is ultimate control over all creation. They so desperately try and control what goes in once they gain control over a system but what they get out isnt necessarily what they hoped for. I think, if input=output then we would be hopelessly enslaved without any hope of ever getting free. Higher density STO beings would never get intouch with lower density STS beings because we would never ask. We would be completely and utterly trapped.

On the subject of love, I dont know much about it but I have afew thoughts. I think that love, is accepting the truth and surrendering to the truth. I think when you really see something and accept it for what it is, you are showing that thing love. I think the universe, or God, shows us love because it/he/she accepts us for who we are. It gave us free will. Likewise, I think, that is what creation, life?, is about. Creation rediscovering itself through love, through a path of love, a path of truth? By surrendering, I mean, not trying to control or subjugate a truth about something. It's beautiful because of what it is, it's the best it can be at that particular point. True surrender because ultimately, we cannot control the truth because the truth is what it is, it cant be reduced further... We can show ourselves love, by discovering the truth about ourselves and making choices based on these truths?? Thing with love, it's that it is not something you can get a grip off and control or subjugate. Maybe that is why it is hard for us to understand it, because we are built to try and subjugate things, to tear it apart, to figure it out, to control it so we can feel power over it. I think it is impossible to do this to love, because, once you do this, it is no longer love. These are my thoughts on love right now...

Interms of subjectivity, I think, density 1 through 6 is an illusion ultimately but with varying degrees(?) because the journey is to rediscover God(?) and that only happens at density 7 where the illusion no longer exists so there is no subjectivity at that level. I think the best we can do, is discover the truth at whatever density level we are in and ultimately to accept it. Maybe to live and exercise our free will in creation. Maybe we dont do to creation, nor does it do to us but we do to each other and maybe our job is to do best we can guided by our love for creation the same way it is guided by its love for us.

What is real?? Maybe it doesnt matter what is real. Maybe what matters is what we do??? Look at it this way, you can only discover what is real by what you do and the beauty maybe is not in discovering, but it is in doing??

Anyways these are my thoughts right now... they arent set in stone, they keep changing depending on where I am interms of what I can see or think. Either way, I think what you wrote is amazing and very creative. I personally couldnt come up with something as elegant or as beautiful as that. Maybe my battle, is to acknowledge my own version of beauty... It is an ongoing struggle.

 

[acs]

Thanks Luke.

 

[melatonin]

Very good points, melatonin, but we don't want to take the metaphor TOO seriously. I think there are other approaches than some of the extreme violence in the movie. Yes, killing the leaders was, effectively, cutting off the head of Medusa or the Hyda, but maybe that can be done a different way than falling to the level of the psychopath. The most important thing to me was the unification of purpose of the people. But then, yes, one has to figure out a way to "cut off the head of the Gorgon" so that there is not a bloodbath because, certainly, psychopaths think nothing of mowing down all resistance.

A lot to think about.

I can remeber in my life when ive confronted abusive people of all types - they play on the fact they are un-touchable, in that the victim will not lower themselves to their level. Their boundaires are that sqewed they think a healthy person wont cross them. Whether its physical violence in self-defence, or playing physcological mind-games. Ive noticed that the biggest shock for these VAMPIRES is to hit them hard using the only method they understand.

The problem is that true physcopaths play by different rules, so straight away they have the upper-hand. I dont think it makes someone a psychopath to treat someone with the same lack of respect and compassion that they show towards others.
Im far from a violent person, in fact im a very caring and loving person. Its because i care that often i feel angry. :)

 

[Buddy]

Im far from a violent person, in fact im a very caring and loving person. Its because i care that often i feel angry. :)

I hear you. It's perhaps unfortunate that so many people only learn the tyrant model for handling problems and problem people. Unfortunate, because it works on specific people at specific times to stop abuse, but of course we know it only addresses the physical acts of abuse, not the belief and thought patterns where violent 'solutions' are initially conceived and developed.

"But to tear down a factory or to revolt against a government or to avoid repairs of a motorcycle because it is a system is to attack effects rather than causes; and as long as the attack is upon effects only, no change is possible. The true system, the real system, is our present construction of systematic thought itself, rationality itself. And if a factory is torn down but the rationality which produced it is left standing, then that rationality will simply produce another factory. If a revolution destroys a systematic government, but the systematic patterns of thought that produced that government are left intact, then those patterns will repeat themselves in the succeeding government..."

Robert Pirsig in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"