abovetopscret.com, Project SERPO, Project Camelot, Project Avalon

[Joe]

ATS

By the mere suggestion? No. I probably would issue a reply saying you better back up what you say with facts though. People can say what they want, but they will only last so long on this forum if they don't say anything that has an ounce of truth in it.

How can you prove a Cointelpro operation with facts ?

That was the defense of the Ats Mods.

The fact no person outside of the Agency would know ,and if they were to whistle blow there are more public sections to do it in than a small web site such as ATS.By small I mean if you were to go and ask the public if they have used,seen or heard of ATS.

The fact that Agencies could be breaking Federal Laws designed to stop President using Cointelpro type operations don`t make themselves easy targets.If the US President dosn`t share and follow the laws there not going to leave any evidence to prove there existence.Those kinda secrets don`t get out .

How could you ever get anything other than suggestion.

Laura certainly hasn`t posted any facts concerning Cointelpro active operations.If she has managed too uncover some details, she certainly can`t prove them.Responses in the ATS thread l mentioned above concerning Laura speculate that the evidence in Laura site is none factual and designed to slander ATS.

So sure there is nothing other than speculation concerning ATS.Having said that having been a member on ATS for a long time using different user names and systems i`ve been able to post in most threads for long periods without problems ,but as soon as I`ve start threads with the possibility of ATS being govt run I`ve been banned within a few weeks.This hasn`t been because of my ID on the net.I`ve access to many computers in various countries so it isn`t because they`ve ID me and broken there Terms and Conditions.

I beg to differ. The ATS "three amigos" owners came out VERY strong against the idea that anything other than a 757 hit the Pentagon, to the extent that it was obvious that they had an ax to grind. Read more about it, with ATS owner quotes, towards the bottom of this article.

http://www.kasjo.net/ats/Above_Top_Secret_article_1.htm

The ATS owners were also caught concocting the project serpo hoax, with a mail from their lawyer exposing his part in it in a way that showed just how cynical these people are about their readers.

See here: http://laura-knight-jadczyk.blogspot.com/2006/03/abovetopsecretcom-exposed.html

That's enough evidence for me to decide that it is at the very least, a commercial venture, which in itself is disingenuous given that they claim to be a website dedicated to "uncovering government secrets" and "denying ignorance". Looked at the in the broader spectrum of Cointelpro, they fit the profile. Smoking guns are rare, thankfully we don't need them to come to a reasonable level of confidence that a site is or is not a "front".

It's all about "seeing the unseen"

Joe

 

[zeed85]

ATS

You are perfectly right. There is nothing but a speculation that you are not a COINTELPRO agent. You disagree?

Not at all l could be Cointelpro or 17 yr old geek with nothing else to do.But please don`t fall into ATS tactics of pre judgementalism.

Prove it to me that you are not. And I promise, I will show that you can't prove it.

Give me your phone number and I`ll speak personnally to you.

You see, everything is a speculation. That you exists as a person, is a speculation as well.

Not everything is speculation.You may well believe differently to me on many levels but that dosn`t make facts.

Without understanding and taking into account this simple idea, you may as well refrain from writing, as you are just (deliberately?) creating noise.

Don`t take this the wrong way but this type of response is typical of an ATS mod.I don`t mean you are but on a public disscussion site is it really necessary to ask a person to refrain from writing.

Maybe people are misunderstanding me.I`m discussing Cointelpro and ATS not suggesting this site is, isn`t on the table just used as an example.

 

[anart]

ATS

You are perfectly right. There is nothing but a speculation that you are not a COINTELPRO agent. You disagree?

Not at all l could be Cointelpro or 17 yr old geek with nothing else to do.But please don`t fall into ATS tactics of pre judgementalism.

You are completely missing his point, zeed.

Prove it to me that you are not. And I promise, I will show that you can't prove it.

Give me your phone number and I`ll speak personnally to you.

How would speaking to anyone personally prove that they were not cointelpro - (it wouldn't really even prove that they really existed) - again, you are missing the larger point.

You see, everything is a speculation. That you exists as a person, is a speculation as well.

Not everything is speculation.You may well believe differently to me on many levels but that dosn`t make facts.

This is a non-sensical sentence - and, again, you've missed his point.

Without understanding and taking into account this simple idea, you may as well refrain from writing, as you are just (deliberately?) creating noise.

Don`t take this the wrong way but this type of response is typical of an ATS mod.I don`t mean you are but on a public disscussion site is it really necessary to ask a person to refrain from writing.

So? And, this is a public forum in the sense that anyone can post if they follow the spirit, intention and rules of the forum - but it is not a forum on which noise is tolerated - posts that provide no data; posts that distract from the discussion at hand, or just distract in general are simply not allowed. So, you see, it is not a wall on which one can come write their grafitti to get their own jollies - it is a forum with a very distinct purpose - hopefully, you at least get that point.

Maybe people are misunderstanding me.I`m discussing Cointelpro and ATS not suggesting this site is, isn`t on the table just used as an example.

Yes, but Joe's post explained very clearly why what you've said makes no sense regarding ATS - yet you persist - therefore, perhaps people are actually understanding you more than you think?

 

[zeed85]

ATS

You are completely missing his point, zeed.

Could you specify more clearly for me then what exactly is the point i`ve missed.

This is a non-sensical sentence - and, again, you've missed his point.

It was in response to the comment "You see, everything is speculation.That you excist is speculation".Does the writer believe I`m govt.I think he missed the point that I believe ATS is govt run.I agree with Laura.I think I`m goin to be writing this alot.I`m not a spook, I`m also not paranoid.Spooks don`t bother me.I have nothing to hide.But I don`t believe the govt should be monitoring people as much as the US govt does.Cointelpro doesn`t excist.It ended.But similar types of organisations l believe excist.I don`t believe in the radical views on many of the threads on here or ATS.I may be wrong.I don`t care for them.Everybody is intitled to there views and I`m not here to mock or get involved in subjects I don`t have a great knowledge of.I only have an interest within govt operations.

So? And, this is a public forum in the sense that anyone can post if they follow the spirit, intention and rules of the forum - but it is not a forum on which noise is tolerated - posts that provide no data; posts that distract from the discussion at hand, or just distract in general are simply not allowed. So, you see, it is not a wall on which one can come write their grafitti to get their own jollies - it is a forum with a very distinct purpose - hopefully, you at least get that point.

Don`t misunderstand my reason for being here.I may have made a mistake posting I got band from another site, but at least I`m honest.I`m not here to write graffiti or to wee on the floor as an ATS member put it.

Yes, but Joe's post explained very clearly why what you've said makes no sense regarding ATS - yet you persist - therefore, perhaps people are actually understanding you more than you think?

I`ve only written my experience with ATS.I don`t understand what you mean by what I`ve written makes no sense regarding ATS.Do you mean you don`t believe ATS is govt run ?

I do and the points I`ve written make that clear ? Don`t they

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

ATS

Could you specify more clearly for me then what exactly is the point i`ve missed.

I can give it a shot..

So sure there is nothing other than speculation concerning ATS.

To which arkmod responded:

You see, everything is a speculation. That you exists as a person, is a speculation as well. The point is: which speculations are more justified than other when taking into account the totality of available data.

There is no proof of anything. Speaking to you on the phone is not proof that you're not cointelpro - cointelpro agents can speak on phones too. The point is not to find proof but to find evidence by looking at all the available data.

Do you disagree?

Why do you think arkmod is "prejudging"? He's not saying that you ARE cointelpro or that you're not. He's saying that either suggestion is merely speculation, and even whether you are actually a human being is nothing more but speculation. It is not guaranteed, it is not proven, it is not certain - nothing is.

"Not everything is speculation.You may well believe differently to me on many levels but that dosn`t make facts."

But everything IS speculation because nothing can be proven with absolute certainty. And because it cannot, it remains in the realm of speculation. But not all speculation is equal in terms of its likelyhood to be true - the available data is what allows us to get some idea of how likely or unlikely some speculation may be. If you think that not everything is speculation, please provide an example of something that is not, and why you think it is not.

Don`t take this the wrong way but this type of response is typical of an ATS mod.

This is not true - if ATS mods were interested in data that supports their statements, they would not be saying what they have said on many occasions. Refer to Joe's post for examples. Arkmod's response is typical of a SOTT mod.

Cointelpro doesn`t excist.It ended.

Provide data that suppots this statement please. Or is this just an assumption?

I don`t believe in the radical views on many of the threads on here or ATS.I may be wrong.I don`t care for them.Everybody is intitled to there views and I`m not here to mock or get involved in subjects I don`t have a great knowledge of.I only have an interest within govt operations.

Aren't you mocking by calling those views "radical"? What if some of those "radical" views are in fact true - wouldn't that make your views "radical" then? And although everyone is entitled to their views, that's the same as saying "anybody can believe anything they want!". While true, most of those views, opinions, or beliefs are of little or no value to somebody interested in truth. It is my understanding that in order to seek truth, all opinions and views and beliefs must be gotten rid of - just having an opinion or a belief means you're not seeking truth, at least in that area. Please check out this thread if you're not sure what I mean: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3925
And this also means that this forum is not designed for those who want to have views, opinions, or beliefs. It's designed for those who want to understand reality as it is by questioning everything. So presenting opinions like "cointelpro doesn't exist" is nothing but noise that doesn't help anybody in any meaningful way, it doesn't provide any useful information. I can say "Jesus is our savior" and that will be just as meaningless. As arkmod said, if we don't have data that supports our statements, then those statements are simply noise. What you believe is just as irrelevant as what I believe or anybody believes. Beliefs and assumptions do not matter. Logic and data does matter though. Do do you think?

 

[ark]

ATS

Could you specify more clearly for me then what exactly is the point i`ve missed.

If you wish: you missed all points.

It was in response to the comment "You see, everything is speculation.That you excist is speculation".Does the writer believe I`m govt.

No. But, by the way, do YOU think so?

I think he missed the point that I believe ATS is govt run.

At least one clear statement.

I agree with Laura.

You did not write with which part of Laura's writings. Should I guess that with all? I don't think you know them all.

I think I`m goin to be writing this alot.I`m not a spook, I`m also not paranoid.

Another clear statement. But every spook would write exactly the same. So, this is a useless information - if that may be called "information" at all.

Spooks don`t bother me.

Spooks do not bother spooks as well, and if they do, they do it smartly. Another useless "information".

I have nothing to hide.

I do not believe it. Prove it. What about your CC numbers?

But I don`t believe the govt should be monitoring people as much as the US govt does.

It would be much better if you would say" I do not belive anything. I want to know!

Cointelpro doesn`t excist.

You are making a statement. Statements, as you said it before, need proofs. Prove it.

It ended.

You are making a statement. Statements, as you said it before, need proofs. Prove it.

But similar types of organisations l believe excist.

Stop believing. Search for knowledge based on data.

I don`t believe in the radical views on many of the threads on here or ATS.I may be wrong.

Stop believing. Search for knowledge based on data. This forum is not the place for believers.

I don`t care for them.Everybody is intitled to there views and I`m not here to mock or get involved in subjects I don`t have a great knowledge of.

And yet you keep writing about things that you have no knowledge about. Instead you have "beliefs"

I only have an interest within govt operations.

G.W Bush has also an interest within govt operations. So, you are not alone.

Don`t misunderstand my reason for being here.

We do not know your reasons. We do not have enough data to know them. Therefore it is impossible for us to misunderstand them. We may only
make working hypotheses based on what you say (or on what you refrain from saying)

I may have made a mistake posting I got band from another site, but at least I`m honest.

This is what you say. Every good manipulator would say the same. Therefore this "information" is not information at all.

I`m not here to write graffiti or to wee on the floor as an ATS member put it.

We may be trying to guess what you are here for. Till know we can only make hypotheses, and what you have written so far is
not very favorable.

I`ve only written my experience with ATS.I don`t understand what you mean by what I`ve written makes no sense regarding ATS.
Do you mean you don`t believe ATS is govt run ?

Please, read again what Joe wrote. Read it again. Think of it. Try to understand what he wrote. Try to read it with understanding.
Reading with understanding is a useful exercise anyway.

I do and the points I`ve written make that clear ? Don`t they

In fact, one thing is clear: that you have problems with understanding. It may take a while for you to fix these problems. But it is worth your time.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

ATS

I just want to correct the inconsistency between what I said and Ark said to avoid possible confusion. I said there is no proof - and I meant that in the sense of absolute proof that proves something in an absolute way (with the possible exception of math (though not all of it of course, just some of it), where each element can be strictly defined and so the result is always the same as long as the conditions are exactly the same (like 2+2=4 etc). But in terms of actual "life", there is data and evidence that make certain things very probable and others very improbable, based on that data. But the possibility exists that new data may change this assessment of probability, and nothing is certain because the conditions and reality itself is not defined and controlled by us, and therefore we cannot account for something that is unknown or unknowable, which if it was to become known, can potentially change our assessment of how probable something is. At least that's my understanding.

 

[zeed85]

ATS

Speaking to you on the phone is not proof that you're not cointelpro - cointelpro agents can speak on phones too. The point is not to find proof but to find evidence by looking at all the available data.

Do you disagree?

No but I could have passed you onto my 8 yr old son or maybe my wife.I`m sure Cointelpro agents don`t take kids to work.

Why do you think arkmod is "prejudging"?

Sometimes the way people write can be misintrpreted.I`m not a writter and find it hard to express with words on a screen.

But everything IS speculation because nothing can be proven with absolute certainty.

I disagree.But thats not the issue here.

Provide data that suppots this statement please. Or is this just an assumption?

No the fact that Cointelpro was official ended.If you reference the Washington post etc etc many articles refering to Cointelpro type organisations using similar tactics but no mention that Cointelpro ever continued past the Church Comittee.

http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200110/102501.html

Aren't you mocking by calling those views "radical"? What if some of those "radical" views are in fact true -

Sorry by calling them radical I didn`t intend to mock, just a term maybe less mainstream views.I not here to mock also I`m not here to be examined in a way a lawyer would a person in a court.

So presenting opinions like "cointelpro doesn't exist" is nothing but noise that doesn't help anybody in any meaningful way, it doesn't

Cointelpro excisted without doubt, the govt admit it freely.I`m not here to disinfo that I`m stating I believe ATS is involved in some way.

 

[zeed85]

ATS

I dont know if this is being disscussed anywhere else on this site but today the Washington post has an article concerning the use of mind control tecniques on the Internet.Sharon Weinberger tells the story of an emerging group of activists who are convinced they are targets of a goverment mind control plot.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/01/12/DI2007011201368.html


Article in the disscussion

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/10/AR2007011001399.html

 

[zeed85]

ATS

If you wish: you missed all points.

Please specify the points I missed.

You did not write with which part of Laura's writings. Should I guess that with all? I don't think you know them all.

The ones concerning Cointelpro.

But every spook would write exactly the same. So, this is a useless information - if that may be called "information" at all.

You can read the minds of spooks.How many do you know.Ever thought of using this talent commercially.

Spooks do not bother spooks as well, and if they do, they do it smartly. Another useless "information".

Really.

I do not believe it. Prove it. What about your CC numbers?

Really, please clarify.If I cannot prove I`m not maybe you could prove I am.

It would be much better if you would say" I do not belive anything. I want to know!

OK.I don`t believe.I want to know.

This should be obvious as I`m here.To prove my beliefs and to learn.

You are making a statement. Statements, as you said it before, need proofs. Prove it.

After the Church Commitee investigation.Cointelpro was wrapped up.Would be stupid to continue with the same operation using the same name, tactics.Cointelpro ended.It is likely though that a new operation with a different name started.

You are making a statement. Statements, as you said it before, need proofs. Prove it.

Same tactic as ATS.You know to ask for proof is ridiculous.That kinda of information is impossible to find and you should know it.Statements as pointed out before are all we have.

Stop believing. Search for knowledge based on data.

Didn`t you know data can be manipulated.

Stop believing. Search for knowledge based on data. This forum is not the place for believers.

Really so this site is made up of none believers.I`m confused.This site isn`t to be used to search for knowledge.

And yet you keep writing about things that you have no knowledge about. Instead you have "beliefs"

Um no.And that is wrong.

G.W Bush has also an interest within govt operations. So, you are not alone.

You`ve asked him then.Can you back up this statement.

We do not know your reasons. We do not have enough data to know them. Therefore it is impossible for us to misunderstand them. We may only
make working hypotheses based on what you say (or on what you refrain from saying)

Who are WE.This is a disscussion site.People read and decide on the content.

This is what you say. Every good manipulator would say the same. Therefore this "information" is not information at all.

So why you here? Do you have a problem with me? Do you question everybody here this way?

We may be trying to guess what you are here for. Till know we can only make hypotheses, and what you have written so far is
not very favorable.

You`ve completely lost me ? I`m here to disscuss ATS being govt run.What more am l missing ? Is there somkinda rule I`ve missed?

Please, read again what Joe wrote. Read it again. Think of it. Try to understand what he wrote. Try to read it with understanding.
Reading with understanding is a useful exercise anyway.

Why don`t you stop playing games and tell me what I`ve missed.

In fact, one thing is clear: that you have problems with understanding. It may take a while for you to fix these problems. But it is worth your time.

Look at my IP address.I`m in a none English country.Maybe I`m thick.Please then take sympathy and tell me straight what is his point.

Thanxs for the time.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

ATS

I`m sure Cointelpro agents don`t take kids to work.

You provided no data to support this statement - it's another useless assumption, also one that is very shallow and false. "Work" for a cointelpro agent with kids and a wife can simply be sitting on their computer and manipulating people through lies on message boards and websites. Making assumptions and unsupported statements, as you are doing, simply demonstrates that you're not interested in truth. Language skills is not your problem. The point of cointelpro is not to advertise its existence, that kinda defeats the purpose.

I not here to mock also I`m not here to be examined in a way a lawyer would a person in a court.

But you have no say in the amount of critical scrutiny and analysis others do of your words and actions. If you are on this forum, what you say and do will be examined very critically and carefully, as it is all that matters. If you are showing clear ignorance, make lots of assumptions, and show inability to think logically, this cannot possibly be ignored in order to address the issues you want addressed. It makes it impossible to communicate with you in any meaningful way. Therefore, it is first necessary to examine your approach and frame of mind, if it is inconsistent with the approach required to seek truth. You existance on this forum does not mean you "want to know". Everything you say demonstrates otherwise.

It has already been pointed out to you exactly what you missed in page 6. I cannot make it any clearer. If you continue to completely twist and distort what is being said to you, and miss all the points, then I personally see no reason to continue explaining anything. The bottom line is: Do not say anything that you cannot prove, or at the very least, provide data that supports the statement. That means anything you say about your own intentions is already utterly useless. Can you think of other useless things?

 

[kenlee]

ATS

Thats one of the irritating things about ATS is when so called ordinary members join the conversation post mocking rubbish and when told to (I think polite but firm) to butt out they get all childish.In come the Mods to put you in your place, followed by members mocking your intellect/spelling mistakes etc etc etc (I now have spell checker) followed by u2u about excessive quoting one liners, followed by more mocking eventually you have two options leave the thread or get banned.

Makes me wonder what the hell anybody wants to stay there for.

A question to the Mods/Admin on here.Would you be insulted if somebody suggested Signs of The Times was a Cointelpro operation?

Well, it seems to me that your above 'question' is really a statement that's masqueraded as a question. You can't answer the question because its not a question at all but rather it is a statement of 'fact' without facts to support it. Actually its more like an axiom

Definition of axiom:

a self-evident truth that requires no proof

So it appears to me that you have asked a question that is not a question at all because it is your self evident truth that require no facts to support it. It only appears as a question.

Lets put your 'question' another way:

A question to the Mods/Admin on here.Would you be insulted if somebody suggested Signs of The Times was a pink elephant?

Well, waddyaknow? Now I can't help but think of pink elephants. Now I'm thinking of pink elephants. But I don't want to think of pink elephants. But the more I think about not thinking about pink elephants then the more I think about'em.

There is a commercial that comes on the radio every so often that says: "I hate Steven Singer." When people listen to it, it actually has the opposite effect.
Now they can't help but think of Steven Singer.

Here's a blog about the advertisement:
http://www(dot)leonelson.com/blog/2004/08/steven-singer.html

Steven Singer

22Aug04
Does anyone know who the "I hate Steven Singer" billboard on I-95 in Philadelphia is reffering to?

Update:

Thanks to an annonymous comment, the following post from the Philadelphia Weekly provides more information regarding the Steven Singer Jewelers advertisement.

"The sign is part of Steven Singer Jewelers new ad campaign. Inspiration came from local voice actor Dennis Steele, whose vocals have sold everything from Wawa to the Pennsylvania Lottery. As the story goes, Steele bought a ring from the jewelers for his wife of 23 years. The rock was extremely well received. Nine months later the Steele family included a baby girl. Steele dropped by the shop to share his success story and blame Steven Singer for all the sleepless nights associated with a baby. Singer took the backhanded compliment and made it the focal point of the new reverse-psychology ad campaign. "Children's 'I HATE STEVEN SINGER' T-shirts will be given out in the store beginning in April," says Laurel Fairworth, a spokesperson for the jeweler. The marketing plans also include another billboard on I-95 north at Pattison Avenue. "

Source: Philadelphia Weekly

Here's the add:

http://www(dot)stevensingerjewelers.com/

So perhaps you are (without realizing it) actually selling (marketing) ATS while at the same time offering up a pink cointelpro elephant as well?

 

[Laura]

Greg Bishop, Project SERPO and COINTELPRO

Recently Greg Bishop wrote a bit about his "expose" of the Project SERPO deal, claiming that Richard Doty and other U.S. Gov types were behind it.

Well, sure, maybe they were involved. But it was mainly a project of the ATS Amigos as we amply demonstrated in real time.

So, I wrote a comment to his blog entry and pointed all of this out, giving links to the evidence, etc.

see here:

http://www.ufomystic.com/wake-up-down-there/serpo-ufo-debate/#comments

What is most interesting is the person who comes along to disingenuously defend ATS. See here:

http://www.ufomystic.com/wake-up-down-there/serpo-was-disinformation/

comment by "Shawnna"

What a load of hooey.

 

[rebar]

Simon Grey: Christian Bailey: Abovetopsecret?

Vinnie, as you may know, also had connections with Peter Moon and Joe Matheny of Incunabula fame. All of this stuff interconnects. It's quite a network.

Hi Laura - I'm curious - what are those connections?

[Moderator: Where is your curiosity coming from? Do you have a personal interest in this issue? If so, please, explain first why.

The issue of Incunabula is interesting but less important for the case of Vinnie. What is important here is that you read first "Studies in Psychopathy":

http://www.cassiopaea.com/archive/wiley.htm

and all about Vinnie and all the available documentation (links from there and more) about Jay Weidner, Vincent Bridges and Storm Bear Williams - the subject discussed also on this forum. Don't miss, in particular, this one:


http://www.cassiopaea.com/archive/wiley3a.htm

(goldenflower = Jay Weidner)

]

 

[Walker Boh]

Simon Grey: Christian Bailey: Abovetopsecret?

Hello there guys, i must admit i didnt know anything about your forum till about a month ago.
I will tell you what has happened.
I have had certain beliefs and abilities for a number of years now, some of which have got me involved in researchin certain "conspiracies".
That is all a bit off topic, but what i am saying is i eventually found my way on to ATS some time ago now.
Something struck me odd about the forum in the beginning and it took me a while to register and longer to post.
I didnt like the ignorant fascist postings of a lot of their members, but i did realize there was some genuine people on there and certain threads that i knew was pretty accurate, I then started to notice the demonizing and harrasment of members with certain views.
It was not until i received such attacks that i thought much more of it. The three Amigos do not only not keep the people in line, they have like little packs of kiss arse ignorant fools they use to go in and ruin and discredit threads.
This i would expect if it was blatant disinfo or even outrageous views, but the subject matter in my opinion was sound and warranted the investigation of the op and even the forum.
I started to take more of an interest in this side of the forum and found many examples of the same thing being done, people driven out, ridicule poured on what i considered to be genuine and interesting subject matter..
I then decided to look into ATS and " The Three Amigos" in more detail. It was interesting to find out that Simon Gray is only about 20 miles from where i live, anyway from the research i made i found the interesting encounter with OTT & ATS.
I decided it was a good topic for discussion on ATS and seeing as the Skepit one had started a thread called " ATS is a cointel Psy Op Operation" i thought i would ask certain questions about what went on with OTT.
After my initial post, i got a U2U saying i have received a posting ban, I logged in under another account and posted one of the great articles by one of your lady reporters. A Forbidden message came up, they wouldnt allow me to post it and i wondered how they were doing it, so i tried to play around with the post to find out what was stopping it from being posted.
Every reference to OTT had been changed to XXXXX where OTT's name was and all the links to pages that stated what ATS had done to OTT had been altered so they didnt work properly. The post got edited and was barely recognizable from the original.
Where is the denying ignorance, and the freedom of speech here?
It does not exist, after careful and prolonged investigation of ATS, i have come to the conclusion that there is most definitely a bad smell coming out of that place, the level of ignorance there is incredible, as far as im concerned its a total disguise, people think they are cool or in the know by being on ATS, but they couldnt be any further from the truth.
I havent finished with them yet...
The only thing that annoys me is that there are some decent people on there, that have been sucked in, i have tried to post in there warning people and the like but my posts get deleted or badly edited.
Hopefully i can bring some useful contribution to this site.
Regards
Walker