Alex Jones - COINTELPRO? Fascist Tool?

alex jones and jeff rense

crazy croc said:
I feel that this particular group of folks that run Sott have somewhat of a Utopian hope for humanity and that is commendable and very worth while.
Wikipedia describes u"topian" as ""Utopian" in a negative meaning is used to discredit ideas as too advanced, too optimistic or unrealistic and impossible to realize. Hence, for example, the use by Marxists of such expressions as "utopian socialism".

Are our ideas "too advanced"? Are they "too optimistic"? Impossible to realize? Is seeking knowledge and truth impossible to realize?

crazy croc said:
However, I feel Jones, whilw being Limbaugh's mirror is able to gain audiance in the states and is entertaining enough through art of imitation to pull a real audience.
GWB by his "terrorists are after us" is also gaining audience and is pulling a real audience.

crazy croc said:
Is he a fraud/charlaton/cointelpro? I don't know. He does address issues that people need to be aware of in a way that draws an American audience.
Issues that people need to be aware of? Which people? Many people always want to have a "leader". Do you really think that giving them a leader is then a good thing? Telling them some truth and hiding from them the other truth, so that they become dependent? So that they are being discouraged from searching for the whole truth themselves?
 
alex jones and jeff rense

crazy croc said:
I like what Jones does because it appeals to the common american mentality.
It is said that the mental age of the average American is that of a 12 year old and heading in a downward direction. Sorry, but I might be missing something important about why this is so great.

Is appeal to the common American mentality desirable?

It that something to aspire towards?

SOTT is not about appeal to the masses or about being popular. If you enjoy and aspire to what the masses aspire to then this forum might not be for you.
 
alex jones and jeff rense

crazy croc said:
I feel that this particular group of folks that run Sott have somewhat of a Utopian hope for humanity and that is commendable and very worth while.
SOTT and Jones are similar in their hope for humanity as it is today - there is none.

Where SOTT differs from Jones is that SOTT actually cares about the people who are suffering now and the millions more who will suffer in the very near future.

Jones just cares about his own messiah complex and what the current socio-political climate can do for his personal fortune.

Joe
 
alex jones and jeff rense

I fully expected my post to be analyzed by those here and I am taking all of your comments very seriously and respectfully. First off, just because I see some value in what Jones does doesn't mean I personally see him as my saviour or guru of truth. I am 40 years old and have actively pursued deeper spiritual truths and the true meaning of what this life may be about since I was 15. So, in a very real way, I am not impressed with Jones. The wikipedia definition of anything, in my opinion, is up for debate, ie; "utopian". I'll be the first to admit there are many brighter and more highly developed individuals contributing comments on the Sott forum than myself but I do find it interesting how many here seem anxious to throw out the "maybe you ain't good 'nuff for these parts" comments. However, if those are your feelings then I appreciate that you are not censored. Finally, regarding the rebuttals to my post, isn't it spin of sorts when you highlight and criticize the positve comments I made about Jones but don't balance it by addressing the negative comments I made about him in the same post? Back to Jones, maybe I can make my point more clear. Ok, the average American is duped, dumbed down, easily hoodwinked, etc. That is true. I can see how if everyone followed Jones that in fact he would indeed become just another leader serving a flawed and selfish agenda. I do however believe that if his rhetoric were the main stream then the world would be a better place than it is. From my perspective, the world and it's social chess game has seen the check. The game is almost up in my opinion and if the masses will only listen to meglomaniacs with good broadcasting voices, rubber stamped formatting and huge egos then I believe that's what it's going to take to get the masses of zombies to even look past their own eyelashes at what is happening and what is about to happen or could happen. The fact is, the trap isn't being layed, we are already in it and on the way to extermination. At this point, I welcome any approach that makes Americans think about something other than nichole smith or the latest game show. Whatever your opinion may be about Jones's agenda, the fact is, he reports many of the same articles that are presented here at Sott. I personally don't feel he spins the facts of what he reports. Now as to how he rants and attempts to persuade perception, that certainly needs to be approached with caution and aptly debated as to it's potential worth and outcome.
 
alex jones and jeff rense

crazy croc said:
The fact is, the trap isn't being layed, we are already in it and on the way to extermination.
Extermination? What does this mean for you? Why is it important? Does it mean no more Gameboys or Ipods? Is there something deeper bothering you about this?
 
alex jones and jeff rense

How about you? Do you really believe a 40 year old plays with gameboys or ipods? What's your real question?
 
alex jones and jeff rense

crazy croc said:
At this point, I welcome any approach that makes Americans think about something other than nichole smith or the latest game show.
And yet you are thinking that promoting to stupidity is a good thing?
crazy croc said:
Whatever your opinion may be about Jones's agenda, the fact is, he reports many of the same articles that are presented here at Sott. I personally don't feel he spins the facts of what he reports. Now as to how he rants and attempts to persuade perception, that certainly needs to be approached with caution and aptly debated as to it's potential worth and outcome.
Potential worth and outcome? Isn't it clear? There will be more Americans thinking that if GWB hears God speaking to himself, he must KNOW what he is doing, it must be good.
 
alex jones and jeff rense

crazy croc said:
Whatever your opinion may be about Jones's agenda, the fact is, he reports many of the same articles that are presented here at Sott. I personally don't feel he spins the facts of what he reports.
The problem with Jones and most similar disinformation artists is not what they report but what they don't. The most basic and effective disinformation method is to present lots of truths and just a tiny amount of crucial disinformation. Now as many here have explained, Jones may point out the all symptoms of current social ills but he avoids and suppresses anything that gets to the core of the matter. So in fact, he leads those who want to seek truths round and round, wastes their energy and prevents them from doing anything that actually matters.
 
alex jones and jeff rense

crazy croc said:
... Back to Jones, maybe I can make my point more clear. Ok, the average American is duped, dumbed down, easily hoodwinked, etc. That is true. I can see how if everyone followed Jones that in fact he would indeed become just another leader serving a flawed and selfish agenda. I do however believe that if his rhetoric were the main stream then the world would be a better place than it is.
I think that the main problem that most of us have with Jones - myself included - is that he is absolutely no different from those he rails against - he appeals to and manipulates the emotions, promotes himself shamelessly rather than the issues themselves, and in the end, people like him have historically turned out to be just a straw man set up by the real controllers to make those seeking truth think they are really getting it. If you read Protocol 12, you can see exactly how Jones fits into the picture as a "third rank" press that is seemingly in direct opposition, but is really designed as a tool to keep the PTBs fingers on the pulse of the dissent, and even to vector it.

I hope that you can see that this is actually a lot more dangerous and deceptive than something that is overtly Right Wing and doesn't pretend to be otherwise.

Let me quote a little bit from Lobaczewski's "Political Ponerology" that I think will explain the perspective:

A Pathocracy has nowhere to go but down. Any leadership position, (down to local mayors and community cooperative managers, not to mention the directors of police units, and special-services police personnel, and activists in the pathocratic party in power) must be filled by individuals participation in such a regime is due to psychological deviations, which are inherited as a rule. Such people become more valuable to the regime because they constitute a very small percentage of the population. Due to this factor, their intellectual level or professional skills cannot be taken into account in placing them in positions of power, since those individuals who actually are competent in the specific jobs and are also pathological (and therefore trustworthy to the regime) are even harder to find.

After such a system has lasted several years, one hundred percent of all the cases of essential psychopathy are involved in pathocratic activity; they are considered the most loyal, even though some of them were formerly involved on the other side in some way.

Under such conditions, no area of social life can develop normally, whether in economics, culture, science, technology, administration, etc. Pathocracy progressively paralyzes everything. Pathocracy progressively intrudes everywhere and dulls everything.

If all - or most - of the many managerial positions are assumed by individuals deprived of sufficient abilities to feel and understand normal people, and who also suffer from deficiencies in technical imagination and practical skills - (faculties indispensable for governing economic and political matters) this must result in an exceptionally serious crisis in all areas, both within the country in question and with regard to international relations.

Within, the situation shall become unbearable even for those citizens who were able to feather their nest into a relatively comfortable modus vivendi. Outside, other societies start to feel the pathological quality of the phenomenon quite distinctly. Such a state of affairs cannot last long. One must then be prepared for ever more rapid changes, and also behave with great circumspection.

Goaded by their character, pathological deviants thirst for global power even though it would conflict with their own life interest. They do not understand that a catastrophe will ensue when they are finally exposed for what they are. Germs are not aware that they will be burned alive or buried deep in the ground along with the human body whose death they are causing.
Now, I, myself, am not a psychologist, but we have several professionals in QFG and we observe and discuss everything about these things in private and the general consensus is that Jones very likely is "one of them." He exhibits all the classic signs, and the material we have been able to collect about his background, and from people who have had personal interactions with him over the years. Based on Lobaczewski's observations and analyses, the likelihood is that he is either already part of "the show," or that he will, when the opportunity presents itself, "turn" - even if he continues to pretend to be opposition to the PTB.

So, here's the problem that normal people with the ability to have a developed, objective conscience face: there ARE a statistically small percentage of deviants in ALL societies that have a statistically HUGE effect on those societies because of their extremely active and persistent natures. (Note that this describes Jones, also.)

Robert Hare points out that "The problem for the organization [group, society] is that only one or two of these people can do enormous damage, particularly if they get very high up in the organization."

Now, looking at a case cited by Babiak, we note that "Dr. Babiak had been brought in to help a major corporation in Colorado. His job was to assess a management team that was underperforming. ... Morale was low, conflict high."

That pretty well describes the so-called 9/11 Truth movement, doesn't it? It is majorly underperforming, and morale is low and conflict is high. So we might guess that there are psychopaths or other deviants in the mix there. Logic compels us to this hypothesis.

We also notice, from the sample case (and, as Cleckley says, if you've seen one, you've seen them all), that "Babiak was charmed by the fast-talking guy at the center of the problem. He came across very sincere, and modest... "

Now, let's consider what Babiak did. He gave out a bunch of assessment forms to ALL people involved. The results were quite interesting because it was only when he was comparing opinions of different people that he realized that there MIGHT be a problem.

Babiak said:
....I only came to realize there was something going on when I got the results of the assessments that were being done, and I found quite a discrepancy. A number of people really, really liked him, and that included some of the higher level people I must say. And a number of people really despised him, really thought he was evil. One person referred to him as a "snake."
Surprise! Surprise! There were people who REALLY liked the guy... and a number of people really despised him.

Well, gee, you could say that about anybody who is in any kind of leadership position. There sure are a few people who actively despise me and spend a LOT of time defaming me.

But Babiak had an additional tool: Hare's PCL-R checklist.

Babiak said:
Bob had sent me the PCL-R, or the Psychopathy Checklist, which he had developed while studying psychopaths in prison samples.

He came out high on the conning and manipulation side of the PCL-R equation and middle-of-the-road on the anti-social behavior side. Thus he was able to hide his manipulations from view of those around him, yet he exerted undue influence, negative influence, on the group.
More than this, Babiak did some additional analysis:

Babiak said:
When I sorted through the data I found that the supporters and the detractors could actually be broken down into four groups, based upon the amount of first-hand experience they had with Dave, and the amount of help they could be to his career. One group, I called them The Patrons, was made up of the President, the Vice-President and some Directors of the firm, effectively the higher levels of the organization. Now, this group of individuals had considerable formal power in the company but they actually knew very little about Dave. What limited interactions they had with Dave were positive but, I learned later, each had been carefully staged by Dave to get the effect he wanted. As a result, these executives protected and defended him from subsequent criticism.
Now, as I previously wrote, it's not hard to imagine large numbers of these types of people being attracted to professions where they can achieve power, money, and other attributes of control over others. It's also not hard to imagine the very same types being drawn into the vacuum of Truth where 9-11 Researchers, Alternative Media Personalities, Historical Revisionists, find a venue to set up a "stock-market of information".

The problem here is the SERIOUSNESS of the situation. If we don't figure this one out, and FAST, it is a flat out certainty that we are all gonna die and our children too, and there is going to be NO FUTURE for humanity.

IT IS THAT SERIOUS.

And if you don't know that, then you are asleep.

We have a situation that is exactly as Babiak described about a corporation above, only bigger and more complex. We also have a situation that is just RIPE for psychological deviants. We also have a situation where, if we have two neurons firing, we KNOW that just about anything and everything that gets any wide play is probably disinformation because we ARE dealing with CRIMINALS here who have committed horrendous, egregious crimes against individuals and humanity. You don't think they aren't going to be johnny-on-the-spot with the cover-up, do you? Or that the 9-11 Truth Movement isn't under their control?

But, assuming that you do really care about your future, the future of your children, the future of humanity, then you will certainly WANT to contribute to the solution, and not the problem.

The same should be true about Jones. And just now, the most important information to be dispensed to everyone in the world is a proper understanding of the types of individuals we are dealing with in positions of power: psychological deviants.

If this information were widely spread, taught, even "preached," as Jones is so fond of doing, then people would begin to understand where to put their focus.

If they really, REALLY understood that they were being bamboozled by true pathological types, that most of the PTB are ABNORMAL, then there would probably be no problem in bringing the different factions of normal people together.

When you think about the psychological deviant problem, when you see that it is behind religions, racism, partisan politics, etc etc, and you see that these deviants use every kind of ploy to pit normal humans against one another so as to keep them off the scent of the real problem, the deviants, then you can begin to understand why we have a problem with Rense, Jones, and quite a few others.

They have all been given opportunities to receive this information and to propagate it; they have all, categorically, by their actions and lack of response to those offers, refused.

In short, they do not even want to touch the one thing that would bring all normal people together in an effort to solve the problems of this world.

Why?

Obviously because they don't want to.

And searching their backgrounds as Babiak did "Dave's", we discover why: because they are probably deviants themselves which indicates to us what they are really doing.


So, what to do? The question has emerged that what we then must deal with is to expose people like "Dave". They are snakes that hide among us and do their damage so covertly that even the most clever and psychologically educated person, such as industrial psychologist, Babiak, was puzzled.

Well, he hooked up with Hare, the psychopath expert and they devised a plan: an 111-point questionnaire they call the 'Business Scan' or 'B-Scan'.

This is actually a formalized structure of the exact thing that we have been doing and teaching large numbers of people in our discussion groups, working groups, and now in public on this forum: a form of networking, sharing inside information not just about information and/or history, but about the PEOPLE disseminating that information.

The thing about the B-Scan is that it is not filled out by the individual in question: his claims or words are not even considered. Instead, it is a questionnaire that is completed by others above and below the 'problem employee' to pinpoint personality traits and behaviors which may be destructive. In short, they have developed a business specific questionnaire (which costs a lot of money, by the way) that imitates what we have long promoted: the idea of a network that honestly and openly shares information about their experiences with others, and does due diligence about those others the instant any questions arise, and shares that information.

Remember: nearly all of the "rules" that society evaluates people by have been devised and set up by a psychopathic culture that thrives in the darkness that is created by people being afraid to discuss their observations about, and experiences with, others. Additionally, it has to be kept in mind that when you are dealing with psychopaths, about all you are going to get is impressions, opinions, and anecdotal experiences: they are generally that good and don't leave bodies around to be found.

So, here you are receiving the equivalent of the responses on Babiak and Hare's B-Scan about several individuals in the so-called 9/11 Truth Movement including Alex Jones. There are several threads in this forum where many individuals have contributed masses of data and observations that effectively "out" both Rense and Jones (as well as some others) as "Snakes in Suits."

You, on the other hand, are rejecting this information...

crazy croc said:
From my perspective, the world and it's social chess game has seen the check. The game is almost up in my opinion and if the masses will only listen to meglomaniacs with good broadcasting voices, rubber stamped formatting and huge egos then I believe that's what it's going to take to get the masses of zombies to even look past their own eyelashes at what is happening and what is about to happen or could happen.
I can understand your point, the problem is, I am telling you that Jones isn't really waking anybody up to anything, he's just herding them into a different corral with a different label on it and all the corrals empty into the same abbatoir.

crazy croc said:
The fact is, the trap isn't being layed, we are already in it and on the way to extermination.
Sure, and Jones is helping to "git those doggies rolling!" It's all about inflaming passions and creating a revolution. How else you think they are going to manage the annihilation? It's called stirring the indians up against each other so they will kill each other off... an old, tried and true tactic.

crazy croc said:
At this point, I welcome any approach that makes Americans think about something other than nichole smith or the latest game show. Whatever your opinion may be about Jones's agenda, the fact is, he reports many of the same articles that are presented here at Sott. I personally don't feel he spins the facts of what he reports. Now as to how he rants and attempts to persuade perception, that certainly needs to be approached with caution and aptly debated as to it's potential worth and outcome.
Yes, he reports many of the same articles we report. What is most striking, however, is what he does NOT report. And the same with Rense, Michael Rivero, and a host of other gate-keepers for the 9-11 Movement.

As I said, the first and main thing that the masses need to be educated about is TRUE psychology. They need to be "worked up" and "motivated" to read and study!!! If Jones was doing something truly for humanity, THAT is what he would be doing. He wouldn't just be rabble rousing hate against the PTB just because they are "greedy, mean people that want all your money and your life" or to "enslave you" and so on. He needs to teach people how and why such human beings exist, that they are not just ordinary people "gone bad," and that such individuals exist in, and twist and pervert, any movement unless people are aware of the types, the signs and symptoms, and take action to exclude them from their midst.

I hope that this helps you to understand our perspective, that Jones, even if he seems to be doing a "good job," can be seen to be one of the biggest helps to their revolutionary plans going.

Read Douglas Reed's "Controversy of Zion" and you will understand how revolution is exactly what is wanted - to make all the normal people who "believe in something," fight other normal people who also "believe in something," and kill each other off.
 
alex jones and jeff rense

crazy croc wrote:

Whatever your opinion may be about Jones's agenda, the fact is, he reports many of the same articles that are presented here at Sott. I personally don't feel he spins the facts of what he reports. Now as to how he rants and attempts to persuade perception, that certainly needs to be approached with caution and aptly debated as to it's potential worth and outcome.

Not to long ago I was listening to Jones on the Coast To Coast show and I noticed that just before the interview began George Noory was 'interviewing' someone in infomercial style. At first I actually thought he was interviewing someone but then it became obvious to me that it was a short commercial which Noory was doing in ‘infomercial style.

What I found interesting is that Noory generally does not do these types of commercials but before the Jones interview there was this commercial done in infomercial style. I began to think that this may be Jones agenda, that is, he is 'sponsored' by someone as an advocate to sell something.

From what I can see he is selling himself by selling fear and he avoids the real roots of the problem (the nature of psychopathy) and just as in an infomercial, where people blindly accept what theyare told about a product, without careful investigation of the claims made, then similarly, people will blindly accept what Jones is selling in the same way.

When our own actions are dominated by fear then we do things that are destructive to ourselves so Jones is just part of the propaganda machine to sell global destruction. and fulfill the 'prophesies' for the end time scenarios.

We don't know what we are doing when we act from fear and ignorance. We'll believe anything and follow anyone. Fear will just enhance the herd instinct and the herd instinct lacks the awareness for self preservation, an awareness which probably comes from the more conscious (intellectual) part of the instinctive substratum. In short Jones is getting people to react and there is nothing behind people who react. There is no intention there, only reactions.

People who react cannot properly gauge the intentions of others because the conditioned reflexes fall below this level of intention and it is from this level that we can begin to properly discriminate between what is a proper reaction and what is not in relation to a particular situation. Jones and those like him do not teach us how to think and wish to undermine our (sacred) discriminatory mind so that we lose touch with our own deeper instinct of self preservation. That's his job, methinks.
 
alex jones and jeff rense

crazy croc said:
How about you? Do you really believe a 40 year old plays with gameboys or ipods? What's your real question?
The real question is whether (for you personally) you know exactly what extermination means to you. If you do, then it cannot be usurped by others and the emotional "hot button" pushed to steer you, (me and others) into designed and channeled reactions. This is how the fear manufacturing machine works.

Cheers.
 
alex jones and jeff rense

Jones is right - Bush and his gang are evil and should be removed from power. But how is he going to prevent the next administration from being just as evil? He's not teaching is to spot a rotten fish, he's pointing out the rotten fish and while he is correct and the fish IS rotten there is no doubt, pointing it out is only good if it helps us learn about recognizing a rotten fish ourselves, and not just at the highest levels of power but in our daily lives. There have been "revolutionaries" throughout history that pointed at the government and screamed foul - and sometimes it even worked to anger enough people to cause a revolution. But then it just went right back to deviants going back to power, because people were angry at the fish that was pointed out to them, they had no knowledge to recognize such a fish themselves. Why would we want to repeat the mistakes of our ancestors?

Jones talks about all this stuff the government does, all the stuff they aren't telling us and all those lies they are telling us. But he never addresses why they were able to get away with it all and how to make sure neither they nor anyone else can ever get away with this again. Why not? Remember, America IS a result of exactly the type of revolution Jones is looking for. And we ARE the very fascist tyrants from which we supposedly extracted ourselves from. This should tell you that this approach of pointing out a rotten fish without teaching people how to spot one is wrong, and only puts people into a patriotic sleep and false sense of accomplishment when the dust settles, as they become the victims of the new deviants.

As you say now so have people said before - "well if we all follow this guy instead of the current regime at least the world will be better off than it is now!". And what did we get? United States... And now you're saying it again, and this has been said over and over in history with no headway.

And yeah, "stand up for what you believe in" has got to be the most dangerous and useless thing anyone ever encouraged anyone to do. This statement basically resulted in all the wars in history. It really should be "stand up for truth, believe nothing". Then everyone would stand up for the same thing against the lies and liars! But noooo we just can't have that can we?
 
alex jones and jeff rense

SAO said:
There have been "revolutionaries" throughout history that pointed at the government and screamed foul - and sometimes it even worked to anger enough people to cause a revolution. But then it just went right back to deviants going back to power, because people were angry at the fish that was pointed out to them, they had no knowledge to recognize such a fish themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSNL07H4vNw

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they are flown in the next war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
 
alex jones and jeff rense

Many thanks to everyone for the food for thought. I really do appreciate it. I guess part of me has a false sense of hope that because we live in an information age, if people are exposed to new ideas they might be inspired to do some real digging and perhaps find a forum like this one. I'm sure it happens but not on a large scale. Still, the current state (which is surely soon to change) is that this time it is a bit different. In the past, there were no options to find varying information. It was, follow him or follow me. Most folks are surely too lazy or too busy to bother, even in this abundant moment in which we are living. At the heart, I feel that either you are drawn to pursuing truth or you are not. It seems that the number of nots far out weighs former and probably always has. I will be thinking more on this subject of Jones. I find it suspicious of him that he could get away with what he does and have the funding to do it if he were not sponsored. Bottom line, and I realize it is very flawed thinking on my part, especially after all of your enlightening comments, is that I can listen to Jones and many other things and still keep my center. Still keep poking my head around and contemplating. I would like to think others have the same fortitude but most probably do not, unfortunately. I also have had a strong suspicion that 911 truth for the most part is orchestrated and just another phase of the operation. It seems very suspicious that these latest BBC leaks were an accident. However, it hasn't grown any legs in the past two weeks. It's almost as if they are saying "ya, we did it, and what are you going to do about it". That certainly does leave things looking as if "they" are trying to instigate an uprise. Perhaps you are right, maybe that's what it's all about. Yes, I have fear. I think mostly because I am a parent of a young child. If I were on my own, I think I would be much less fearful and emotional in my thinking. I certainly used to be before I was a parent. Damnit, it sucks that it is too late and that this world is a disgraceful mess. Ya, it hurts me. I hate it but I keep pressing on trying to convince myself there is a drop of hope left. Believe me, I am fairly good at being discerning and that's what makes it so hard. I see things and in my heart I know it is hopeless but to survive I keep looking for some kind of siver lining. You know, it's a real bitch to stare at the devil and then walk in the next room and see your kid laughing and playing, being left with an emptiness because of what you know. I want to live and laugh and be free and I want the same for my kid. It's not good enough to say there is no answer but I don't have much faith in the story of David and Goliath. 911 is the weak spot that will bring them down. Ya right. You guys are right. The circle is complete. The guardian has failed.
 
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