alex jones and jeff rense
crazy croc said:
This thread as a whole I believe is an exercise in perception. The entire foundation of it is based broadly on speculation. Some valid observation, certainly but more so speculation. Hence, as a whole I don't find this thread to be of great value in terms of revealing anything which can lead to a path other than further observation and speculation on the topic as a whole.
Why do you say speculation when it's backed up by data? Alex Jones talks about some things, he does not talk about other things. That's data. He promotes certain things in a certain way. That's data. The things that he does not promote, and does not do, is also data. In terms of the results of what he says and does, it does not matter whether he does it consciously or he just doesn't get it and doesn't know any better. The results are the same, and that makes him an agent of disinformation regardless of whether he knows it or not. The thing is, disinformation is not just directly stated lies. It's also implied lies. So if he focuses all his attention on the "evil NWO groups" and governments, he's implying that this is the solution and what we need to focus on. He is not wrong that the government is lying and manipulating, but he IS wrong in not only his approach to the problem that makes no different from those he talks about, but his implied assumption that this is the extent of the problem. But this is only a symptom of a much more universal problem, psychopathy and the resulting ponerization of everybody and ALL groups and individuals, not just special-interest groups like governments and NWO etc.
Learning to think critically, to de-ponerize ourselves, and to understand the subtleties and mechanics of psychopathic mindset is vital for progress to be made towards any sort of change on this planet - not simply going after "evil groups" that want to take over the world whether they are evil Muslim terrorists or our government or whatever. Doing that does not make you any smarter - just like when Bush says that Bin Laden hates our freedoms it's not different than when Jones says that Bush actually hates our freedoms. Anybody can point a finger at the government and say "They are a bunch of evil scum" and provide plenty of evidence for this. Kudos to them, but why not ask the reader why they didn't know this already, why did they need somebody to point the finger for them? What is wrong with their own ability to see lies from truth? Jones does not focus on this at all, which is absolutely vital. The reader does not learn to recognize this themselves, does not learn to see how and why the government gets away with this (not the pure mechanics of it, but the psychological and emotional manipulation), and how the same thing is going on in their daily lives with people not in positions of national power, but who are no different than those governments. As has been stated already in this thread, he goes after the major symptoms of a disease but ignores the disease. And he has been informed of this many times. He either doesn't want to get it, or gets it but ignores it because of ulterior agenda. But the results are the same.
crazy croc said:
Obviously the way a statement is perceived has a lot to do with the personality and intentions of the observer. There seem to be quite a few 'strong' personalities around here but I don't think one type is necessarily better than another. I actually enjoy the fact that my statements are ripped apart but that's absolutely not why I make them.
If by "ripped apart" you mean "critically analyzed", then why wouldn't you want your statements to analyzed?
crazy croc said:
Still all in all, however you may perceive my words, I don't do personal attacks and I try to be respectful.
Well if someone was to analyze what you just said here, it amounts to this: "Regardless of what you think about what I say, I'll tell you what to think." But why not let the forum decide whether you do attacks or not? This decision would come from a critical analysis of what you say. But if you don't want the forum to do such an analysis because as you say, that's not why you make the statements, then why do you make the statements? And certainly that would go hand in hand with telling the forum that you are in fact respectful and do not do attacks. A forum that is prevented from critical analysis would have no choice but to except your own self-analysis as fact.
crazy croc said:
If it's decided I am of no value here, then so be it. Personally, I think there is some over analysis regarding my posts but that's up to the moderators. I have no quarrell with anyone here. I'm not going to say it wouldn't sadden me to booted but I don't think anything I've done in this thread warrants an apology on my part.
I think the point is not to apologize, but to learn. Apologies are worthless if they are not a result of learning and growing. Otherwise you're just apologizing for the sake of apologizing, it's not sincere, it does nobody any good.
There is only one objective reality. So, if somebody has one perception, and another person has a contradictory perception, they cannot really both be correct. They can both be wrong, but not both correct. So if they both just "agree to disagree" that's really nice of them, but that doesn't help either one of them get to the truth with respect to their interaction with one another. And perception is not opinion. Perception is what you currently perceive, but you can remain open that you are lacking data, or interpreting the data wrong and realize it. Opinion is more like concluding that this is what it is, case closed. In other words, it's like opening your eyes and seeing the color blue and saying "I see blue" but knowing that it's only your current perception. Opinion is like saying "This IS blue" just because it appears that way. There is attachment here, there is identification, and it becomes a stumbling block, an "obsession" as the C's would say.
Everybody has opinions, most of them being wildly different about the same "things" so clearly, most of them utterly wrong. On this forum we steer clear of giving any value to opinions. It's all about working together to collect data, and also working together to interpret that data. In other forums one of 2 strategies are used: either they argue and defend their opinions till they are blue, or they "agree to disagree" and say we all are entitled to our opinions, and leave it at that. Both approaches do not help anybody find the truth, so they are both worthless for a group that seeks to Know. No sacred cows, no bull. So if you are not attached to your perception and are interested in truth, consider the data and what is being said on this thread, and consider it critically. To me it seems like you are, in fact, attached to it, and this is evidenced by your posts where you seriously skew and distort data to defend it and as you say "maintain" it. If my perception here is accurate, it's not the end of the world, we all had our share of sacred cows, and although they're not easy to let go of because of what they are and how they work, if our drive for truth is stronger than our desire to hang on to them, we (through some discomfort and sometimes some serious pain, depending on the cow) can let them go. But seeking truth is not just mere curiosity in how things work, it does not come without pain and sacrifice and suffering as you battle your mechanical and programmed self. It's not inner peace as many new agers and others claim, it's actually inner war.
