Alex Jones - COINTELPRO? Fascist Tool?

Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

Date sent: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:56:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Jon Moseley
To: Gerard Holmgren
Subject: Re: "No airplanes" argument is off the deep end
Copies to: [Snipped List]


I think that you have every right to debate issues even if you are (as I understand it) in
Australia.

However, I think you are seriously handicapped, as are many others like the anti-American French
author, in not knowing anything about the geography of New York City and Arlington, Virginia, where
the Pentagon is located.

As I have said over and over, I am sure that you are imagining that the Pentagon is in some remote
area. Having never visited the Pentagon, I believe that you are greatly erring because you suppose
that the Pentagon is in some secluded, unpopulated area.

In both cases, there are hundreds of thousands of people living and working in the immediate
vicinity of the WTC and the Pentagon.

Saying that there were no airplanes is as absurd as saying that July 4th fireworks went off over NYC
and yet no one saw them.

The WTC towers were the highest building in the NYC skyline, visible out to the horizon, 20 miles in
all directions. Probably severaly million people in NYC could all look at the WTC twin towers
simultaneously from all different parts otf the city. New Jersey across the river has a clear and
unobstructed view acoss the water.

You fail to appreciate the truly STAGGERING number of live eyewitnesses who watched the airplanes
strike the twin towers, by failing to appreciate the stupendous number of people who live in NYC and
across the river in New Jersey, the fact that the twin towers towered above every other part of the
skyline, so that everyone in NYC could see the top sections (where the planes hit). Probably 10
milllion people live within eyesight of the twin towers (when they were there).

Perhaps few people were watching when the first airpalen hit the first tower. Although people
looking out their windows watched it coming at them.

However, tens of thousands of people evacuated the twin towers after the first airplane hit, and
because of news coverage practically the entire city was alerted BEFORE the 2nd airplane hit the
second tower. Tens of thousands of people had already streamed out into the streets and were
watching, live, as the second airplane hit. Probably a hundred thousand people, including those
across the river in New Jersey, were watching the first tower burn, having been alerted by the news
media to go outside and look, as they witnessed the 2nd airplane hit.

So, I think any theory which is based on the non-existence of airplanes hitting the WTC towers is
simply delusional.

Similarly, thousands ofpeople witnessed the passenger jet hit the Pentagon. Get over it. They were
interviewed within hours by all manner of news media of all stripes.

Similarly, you, like most people outside the United States, utterly fail to comprehend our
governmental system. The firefighters and police who were crawling all over teh WTC rubble and the
Pentagon site DO NOT report to any Federal government authority. Both NYC and Arlington, Virginia
are extremely liberal jursidictions highly negative towards George Bush. Any firefighter or
policeman who could say that there was no airplane debris at the Pentagon or WTC would be promoted
and made into a hero by the government of Arlington County, Virginia, or of NYC. The voters of
Arlington County, Virginia, largely hate George Bush, hate Republicans, and are politically invested
in opposition Democrat Party, and would be delighted to be able to discredit George Bush.

You fail to grasp that firefighters and police do not answer to the federal governemnt. They report
to local governemnts which are independently elected by local voters, and answer to their local
voters. Even the Virginia state governemnt has very, very LITTLE influence over the Arlington
County government, such as police and firefighters.

Technically, the police are actually the Sheriff's office, and the Sheriff stands for election in
every County. So the police on site report to the Sheriff who is a liberal (anti-Bush) official
elected by liberal, anti-Bush voters in a liberal, anti-Bush County.

And, then again, if there were a conspiracy by the government, why would they not target a facility
in a lcoation where they could control the police and firefighters, such as a very conservative
jurisdiction? Why did they pick two of the most liberal, anti-Republican, anti-Bush cities in the
U.S.A.?

Jon Moseley
Now, while I agreed with Jon on the subject of the Twin Towers, I did not agree with him on the subject of the Pentagon. It struck me that what I was seeing here was two examples of reductio ad absurdum... Because Jon was so confident of the thousands of eyewitnesses in New York, (and they exist) seeing a plane, he assumed that there were as many thousands of eyewitnesses to the Pentagon strike that were equaly reliable: there were not.

On the other side, Holmgren was arguing from the "no plane at the Pentagon" due to lack of evidence, and no plane in Pennsylvania, due to lack of evidence, added to distorted video images of the planes hitting the WTC, to "no planes at ALL" not even the ones that hit the WTC .

Oh boy, what a set up.

Thing is: both of them COULD be equally sincere. How to tell?
 
Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

From: "Gerard Holmgren"
To: "'Jon Moseley'"
Copies to: Snipped List
Subject: " airplanes" argument is off the deep end
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:19:43 +1000

Jon.

The drivel below is all about how people *would* seen a plane - if there was
one there. There wasn't , which is why there is witness evidence to support
it.

Circular logic:

A plane was there. Therefore thousands of people saw it.

How do I know it was there ?

Because thousands of people saw it.

But how do I know that people saw it?

Because it was there.

And how do I know that it was there ?

Because people saw it.

How do I know that people saw it ?

Because it was there.

Jon, do you know the dirfference between sourcing actual witnesses and just
making them up ?

If you do, then present documentation.



Jon Moseley wrote:

I think that you have every right to debate issues even if you are (as I
understand it) in Australia.

However, I think you are seriously handicapped, as are many others like the
anti-American French author, in not knowing anything about the geography of
New York City and Arlington, Virginia, where the Pentagon is located.
[snipped rest of post already published]
 
Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

From: "Gerard Holmgren"
To: "'Jon Moseley'"
Copies to: Snipped List
Subject: Can Jon answer a simple question ?
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:21:49 +1000

What was the very first thing which put into your mind the idea that large
plane hit the WTC?

What first created this impression ?

What was the fundamental basis for forming the belief to begin with ?
From: Comnlawnet@
Date sent: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:13:43 EDT
Subject: Fwd: Jon's answer. (J Fetzer, fire ball can't be fake - could it?)
To: Snipped List
Hmm -

If the Boeing 767 hitting a skyscaper could be computer animated -
Why not the fire ball, too ?

If produced articially, the fact it is on film is no proof it is real.

How many eye witnesses are there of the actual fireball ?
This next post is obviously a recap of questions asked by Prof. James Fetzer...

From: Comnlawnet@
Date sent: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:58:30 EDT
Subject: Fwd: Jon's answer. ( J. Fetzer's questions, e.g. witnesses)
To: Comnlawnet@aol.com

Good questions James -

Who is to say that some "eye" witnesses, were not part of the illusion ?

Who, at the time could refute their story of planes was not a ruse ?)

(Who could have said at the time there was no fire ball ?)

No one described such a fireball when the South Tower was hit, did they ?

Who can say today the fire ball was not dubbed in too ?

Whos is to say videos of real planes and fireballs were not spliced it to
lend authenticity ?

Without plane parts we have no planes -

Without planes we have no impact -

All we have are explosions and smokey fires (that were going out).

Those were not caused by planes - so what/who caused them ?

Muslims aboard non-existing planes?

Then the towers started to burst apart, first one, then the other in
identical fashion - then a third.

The story gets curiouser and couriousr - Please keep us informed.
Date sent: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:13:37 -0400
From: Jacob Roginsky
To: Gerard Holmgren
Copies to: Snipped List
Subject: Gerard olmgren Is A Crackpot, A Liar, A Cheat

Gerard Holmgren's conspiracy theories are good evidence of his mental
illness. He has asserted that no planes hit WTC 1,2 on 911, and, I have
been told, that the images of the planes striking the buildings were a
holographic hocus-pocus. As is often the case with mentally ill
people, Holmgren is a manipulator, a pathological liar, and a cheat.

As soon as Holmgren realized that I would not be the kind of a
substandard debater he is used to, and that I would badly beat him, he
began causing obstacles to the debate and creating conditions that would
make my participation impossible. He repeatedly ignored my demands that
we agree on rules, format, and focus of the debate as a precondition to
holding it. He also repeatedly misrepresented the nature of what I had
agreed to debate (the merits of his "best" conspiracy theories).

Holmgren declined my offer to create a Yahoogroups forum in which we
would share an even playing field. Instead, he asked Rosalee Grable to
set up a blog on the Internet, and then, without a notice to me, before
any rules and focus of the debate were in place (or discussed), he
proceeded to post his "opening statement" that is misleading,
inappropriately voluminous and is not in the nature of an opening
statement.

Interestingly, the username and password that Rosalee apparently
furnished to Holmgren and me jointly, worked for Holmgren, but
apparently does not work for me -- I have been unable to post there.

Holmgren's rush to post without a notice to me and before the necessary
preliminaries were put in place is not a mere error. It was a
deliberate act to derail my participate in the debate. It was obviously
an unscrupulous act of a conniving man. In the absence of any rules
and agreed to focus, Holmgren would have undoubtedly cheated and done
all kinds of shenanigans that would turn the debate into a quagmire for
me and a joke for the observers. Clearly, Holmgren has no good
reputation to protect, as I was also told by some on this list. In the
end, without referees, he would have declare victory no matter what. In
light of these realities and considerations I had no choice but to say
good buy to the "debate." Nonetheless, I subsequently told Holmgren
that I would return to the debate if he took down his opening statement
and agreed to a refereed discussion of the rules and focus of the
debate. He rudely declined. Again, the reasons are obvious:
Holmgren would not commit to a debate in which his ability to cheat and
manipulate would not be assured.

As you see, Holmgren now posted a fraudulent statement at the blog site,
claiming that I conceded defeat without firing a shot. I have a hunch
he might know that I could not post at the same site. I'm wondering
how prevalent is the Holmgren's type in the "911 Truth Movement."

Jacob Roginsky

Gerard Holmgren wrote:

>[[The entire world watched two airplanes hit the WTC or at least teh second
>airplane hit with the first tower still burning. ]]
>
>And the entire world watched the dinosaurs at Jurassic Park breaking out.
>
>And the dinosaurs looked whole lot more real than Cartoon 175.
>
>As for the Nth tower video, the object is quite clearly not a plane. It just
>isn't.
>
>http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/noplanework.html
>
>For winning "gullible of the week award in suggesting that because we saw a
>cartoon on TV, then it's real, Jon wins two tickets to Jurassic Park, with
>airfares and accommodation.
>
>BTW, Jacob Roginsky has already conceded defeat in the debate.
>
>http://national911debate.blogspot.com/
>
>His condition for debating the evidence I wanted to present was that I not
>be allowed to post it, and that all my posts had to be approved by him.
>
>Hee hee ! I've met some losers in my time, but JR takes the cake.
>
>Nevertheless, even losers are winners. JR can spend his sulking time
>recovering amongst the excitement and wonder of Jurassic Park, because I've
>got tickets for him too.
>
>It's real you know. We saw it on TV.
 
Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

From: "Gerard Holmgren"
To: "'Jacob Roginsky'"
Copies to: Snipped
Subject: It's squirm time for sore loser Rogisnky
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:48:25 +1000

[[As soon as Holmgren realized that I would not be the kind of a substandard
debater he is used to, and that I would badly beat him, he began causing
obstacles to the debate and creating conditions that would make my
participation impossible. ]]


Such as being allowed to post my points of evidence and not having to submit
my posts to opponent for approval.


These are the conditions which made it "impossible" for Jacob to debate. By
his only admission, the only way Jacob can debate is if he's the only one
writing.


Hee hee !

[[Holmgren declined my offer to create a Yahoogroups forum in which we would
share an even playing field. Instead, he asked Rosalee Grable to set up a
blog on the Internet, ]]

Ahem. here is what Jacob himself wrote in response to setting up the blog.


[[Thank you, Rosalee. Thank you. Gerard. This is definitely acceptable

as neutral ground.


I went to the web site, but was not asked for a password or user name.

I was lead to a posting window, however.

Does this mean anyone can post there? What do we do to restrict that?

Jacob



Gerard Holmgren wrote:



>Do you agree to that Jacob ? We can cancel the other blog I set up, and

>use this one.

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Rosalee Grable [mailto:webfairy@thewebfairy.com]

>Sent: Wednesday, 12 July 2006 6:36 AM

>To: Gerard Holmgren; jrogins@va.metrocast.net

>Subject: http://national911debate.blogspot.com/

>

>http://national911debate.blogspot.com/

>

>The user name is xxxxxxxxx

>the password is xxxxxxxxxx

>

>Please sign your posts, since blogger will list you both with the same
name.

>Please back up the thread as you make your post to make a record lest

>the other party change anything.

>

>I hope this is acceptable as a neutral ground.

>It does require a level of honor and trust that are deficient nowadays.]]



[[then, without a notice to me, before any rules and focus of the debate
were in place (or discussed), he proceeded to post his "opening statement"
that is misleading, inappropriately voluminous and is not in the nature of
an opening statement. ]]



I would have thought that in a debate about Sept 11, each side posts there
evidence. Since Jacob doesn't have any, this put him in something of a spot.
So the "rules of debate" are that I'm not allowed to post my "conspiracy
theories". Funny, I thought the whole idea was to scrutinize them. Just as
long as I'm not allowed to say what they are or present any evidence for
them.


As Jacob explains here


[[. In light of these realities and considerations I had no choice but to
say good buy to the "debate." Nonetheless, I subsequently told Holmgren
that I would return to the debate if he took down his opening statement ]]

Which was a bullet point of my evidence.

How unfair of me ! How rude ! I presented an opening statement of my case -
without my opponents permission !

The gall of it ! The cheating ! The lying ! The cad ! the scoundrel ! The
rotter !

Run away and cry Jacob !

Next loser ?

From: Jacob Roginsky

Gerard Holmgren's conspiracy theories are good evidence of his mental
illness. He has asserted that no planes hit WTC 1,2 on 911, and, I have
been told, that the images of the planes striking the buildings were a
holographic hocus-pocus. As is often the case with mentally ill people,
Holmgren is a manipulator, a pathological liar, and a cheat. [snipped rest of post already published]
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 00:21:27 -0400
From: Jacob Roginsky
To: Gerard Holmgren
Copies to: Snipped List
Subject: Holgrem is his usual manipulating self

Holmgrem's first attempt at the blog was a slight of hand. I
objected. Rosalee's offer appeared genuine, but it has nothing to do
with my complaint that Hogren dishonesty posted his "opening statement"
without checking with me as to whether I was ready to begin, or agreed
to forgo the rules and focus of the debate, or would agree for him to go
first. But he knew that I would not agree to at least the first two.

Rosalee did in fact, as I just learned, change the password at the blog
site after Hogren posted his "stuff" there. Hey, what kind of morals
should we expect from Hogren's friends?

Jacob Roginsky


Gerard Holmgren wrote:

> [[As soon as Holmgren realized that I would not be the kind of a
> substandard debater he is used to, and that I would badly beat him,
> he began causing obstacles to the debate and creating conditions that
> would make my participation impossible. ]]
[Snipped rest]
I was really beginning to wonder just who was on first here...
 
Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:16:28 -0700
To: Comnlawnet***
From: Michael
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sept 11 debate. Holmgren vs Rogisnsky - (Jon: 911 was
on TV, so accept it)
Copies to: Snipped List


Here's what you clowns saw on TV, Jacob and Jon, but don't even know it.

1. A missile flew down through the smoke WHILE the 2nd tower was
emitting its fireball.
http://www.umedia.com/mach6.html

2. Steel was ejected LATERALLY AND UPWARD during the fall of the
buildings, which PROVE forces other than gravity were involved in the
destruction of the towers.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapses/mushrooming.html

3. An 18 to 20 foot hole was put into the Pentagon BEFORE they
brought down 90 feet of the front wall. No plane parts, no seats, no
luggage, no people, and no damage to the lawn exists.
http://killtown.911review.org/flight77/building.html

4. The 2nd "plane" clipped the corner of the WTC tower, which could
not possibly have melted even one floor evenly, even if the fire from
the plane were hot enough to melt steel, which it wasn't. An even
melting would be required for a single floor to collapse straight
down, let alone an entire building.
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/spencer06.htm

5. Building 7 fell down (AFTER SILVERSTEIN ORDERED THE "PULL")
without significant fires, or a plane hitting it (although the
substitute for FLT 93, which I believe was meant for WTC-7, went off
course, missing its target, and was missiled over PA).

6. The hole in Shanksville had NO plane parts, NO luggage, NO seats,
and NO bodies. Look at the video! There is NO evidence of a plane
crash there.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A56110-2002May8&notFound=t
rue
(paragraph 6).

7. Most of the steel from the towers conveniently "fell" into the
lengths needed to fit the trucks for hauling. There were diagonal cut
beams typical for a controlled demolition.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/april2006/240406thermite1.jpg

I'd like to see you justify these little tidbits in a debate.


Here are a few facts you didn't see on TV.

1. Clouds of dust rose from the towers simultaneously to 2+ Richter
scale earthquakes. The buildings fell within minutes after those
events, as explosions went off one after another during the collapse.
http://www.umedia.com/MediaMike/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg

2. Dust rose from building 7's basement just before that building
collapsed, too.

3. Concrete, hardened to more than 3,000 psi, was pulverized into
dust. ALL OF IT. This is impossible from a uniquely gravity-induced
fall. If you dropped a 3 foot square piece of concrete from 10,000
feet, there would be PIECES of concrete laying some feet away from
the impact point. It would not completely pulverize into dust.

4. The sprinkler systems were working, putting out the fires in the
WTC (thus the black smoke). Firemen also commented over the radios
that they could put out the remaining fires (therefore no "raging"
infernos present).

5. The video cameras were turned off that morning on the WTC. The
videos from neighboring businesses to the Pentagon were confiscated
by the FBI and other agencies.

6. FEMA admitted to being in New York the night of 9-10-01.

7. George "Wunderkind" Bush was trying hard to read a grade-school
book instead of following procedure to protect the head Executive in
a time of attack.

8. The world's only multi-hundred-billion dollar defense was totally
snookered by Arabs hiding in caves in Afghanistan who spent a total
of $42.50 for carpet cutters and hopped aboard planes without their
names appearing on the passenger lists.

There is so much physical evidence, and so much secrecy, that it is
obvious that the official conspiracy theory of 19 Arabs (7 of which
are still alive) is false. What is the truth? Intelligent people are
still researching to determine that. In the meantime, it is obvious
that the official story is a lie.

In truth,
MediaMike, Phoenix
 
Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:07:27 -0400
From: Jacob Roginsky
To: Gerard Holmgren
Copies to: Snipped List
Subject: Re: Gerard Hologram And His Buddies Can't Get Their Lies Straight

Gerard,

I see more than one possibility here. Perhaps less of what you do and
say should be explained by treachery and dishonesty and more by
problems of the mind. The "careless writing" excuse does not wash well
-- you stated that you did something, which you clearly did not.

Now, what is the following gem in your below post to communicate, and
to whom: "I had posted something without his permission, ordering me to
take it down."?

It is telling that you, an Australian, would be utterly consumed with
visions of a sinister US government causing holographic images of planes
to fly into rigged buildings, as this bugaboo government sets ablaze and
then demolishes the buildings, causing catastrophic loss of life and
providing pretext for the establishment of a police state in America and
throughout the world. What fear you must live under awaiting the
sinister government to come and get you in Australia for blowing its
cover!!! Such stress alone would make anyone go koo koo crazy. But
then again, perhaps you have already built an impregnable holographic
shell around you, a shell generated and sustained by the incredible
powers of your mind.

Gerard Holmgren wrote:

> It was Rosalee who changed thepassword.
>
> Careless writing on my part below, because I was tired.

[rest snipped]
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:29:52 -0400
From: Jacob Roginsky
To: Gerard Holmgren
Copies to: Snipped List
Subject: Re: Anything you want...

Now, this is semi-constructive. Of course, I never claimed that "rules
and conditions [must be] agreed upon behind closed doors, before any
public posting" It raises serious questions as to your real intent
here and/or state of mind that you would make such preposterous claim
after all the exchanges we have had on the subject.

Let me reiterate what I said time and again, namely we must agree on
certain preliminaries about the conduct of the debate and its focus
before we are in a position to even try to have a meaningful debate.
Such a debate is impossible without rules, without definite focus and
scope, and without some sort of refereeing. Closed doors??? To the
contrary, I would insist that any negotiations between us be conducted
in the open -- less temptation for mischief.

Should you really wish to debate me in a civilized, professional manner,
start by taking down your "opening statement" at the blog site and
removing your bogus declaration of my supposed surrender. Let us come
to an agreement on the preliminaries and then forge ahead with the
debate, at which time you will be welcome to post any opening statement
you wish, provided it is in line with our rules and is in the nature of
an opening statement. (All of which ought to be validated by referees.)

Jacob Roginsky

Gerard Holmgren wrote:

> Jacob, you have stated a desire for rules and conditions to be agreed
> upon behind closed doors, before any public posting.
>
>
>
> Go ahead. State your rules and conditions.
>
 
Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

From: "William C. Carlotti"
To: "Michael"
Copies to: Snipped List
Subject: GETTING DOWN TO BRASS TACKS
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 19:12:03 -0400


MICHAEL--- Thanks for bringing sanity to this hitherto case of much to do about nothing. Now if
there is someone sane enough to respond to Michael's picking at the Government's conspiracy theory
published by the 911 Commission (last update April 6, 2006), I would like read it on this otherwise
useless site. ----BILL
From: Comnlawnet
Date sent: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:03:46 EDT
Subject: Fwd: Can Jon answer a simple question ? (no) (no planes?)
To: Snipped List


The question is, I think: Did a plane actually hit the North Tower or was
that too a TV trick ?

Jon says tens of thousands witnessed it with their own eyes, maybe as many
as a hundred thousand - thats a lot of people to assemble around the tower in
25 minutes.

Or, did he mean that the saw it on TV, "with their own eyes?" (In wihich
case millions would have seen it, "with their own eyes.")

If the whole thing was pre-planned, it would be logical to wait 25 minutes
until an audience and TV crews could be assembled to witness the spectacle -
why leave such an important element to chance ? More than logical (to pull
off a grand illusion of terror attack) would it not be necessary ?

This seems to be new discovery surrounding Flt 175 - is it possible this
"fact," is not a fact, but a fabrication ? Is that what Holmgren (and many
others) are saying ?

Come to think of it, was lack of aircraft parts an initial question ? Were
wheels, engines, landing gear, etc. ever found ? Don't remember seeing any.
How about for the South Tower ? (Its a photgraphic fact there were no
planes in the PA field or Pentagon, just holes).

Does Holgren and others say the the famous videos of Flt 175 are fake
because the jet liner fades like a phantom into the wall; are they saying that was
a "Photoshop" cut & paste ?

Jon says the collapse was real metal fatigue because saboteurs would not
know in advance where the plane would hit, and so would not be able to wire a
demolition sequence - (assuming old fashion techniques instead of wireless) -

Until this posting by Jon, I had been under the impression a Boeing 757 had
actually hit at least one WTC tower, now he persuades me to look at the
videos again, and at the global power of New York telcommunications industry..


Hmm, this is really interesting -

(If 9-11 is of no interest to you, and you want to be off this list, just
reply "delete" on the subject line.)
I admit that it was interesting to me as well. But what concerned me the most was how to engage the wider public by focusing on the weakest links of the story and leaving the more intricate theories and discussions for exchanges between those who had acquired more or less "gifted amateur" status by virtue of their work and discoveries. I could see Jon's point: millions of people would simply NEVER believe that they did not see those jetliners fly into WTC 1 & 2. Further, whether they did or didn't wasn't all that important in terms of trying to utilize 911 as the lever to rid ourselves of a criminal administration. In order for THAT to happen - which I assumed to be a desirable outcome to ALL 911 researchers - the focus had to be on those things that would implicate the administration and could be well supported in the eyes of the wider public audience.
 
Alex Jones predicts WWIII in the next two months

Talking about funny people making predictions before 9/11, check out what pathocrat Philip Zelikow (executive director of 9/11 Ommission) was writing in 1998 in Foreign Affairs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_D._Zelikow

In the November-December 1998 issue of Foreign Affairs, (Zelikow) co-authored an article entitled "Catastrophic Terrorism," in which he speculated that if the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center had succeeded, "the resulting horror and chaos would have exceeded our ability to describe it. Such an act of catastrophic terrorism would be a watershed event in American history. It could involve loss of life and property unprecedented in peacetime and undermine America's fundamental sense of security, as did the Soviet atomic bomb test in 1949. Like Pearl Harbor, the event would divide our past and future into a before and after. The United States might respond with draconian measures scaling back civil liberties, allowing wider surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects and use of deadly force. More violence could follow, either future terrorist attacks or U.S. counterattacks. Belatedly, Americans would judge their leaders negligent for not addressing terrorism more urgently."
What a clown! They all think they're so smart.
 
Alex Jones predicts WWIII in the next two months

apeguia said:
What a clown! They all think they're so smart.
It might be worth asking if he placed any bets about this! (In case this appears a bit 'off-base', I'm referencing the 'put share options' filed prior to 9/11 involving the stocks of both airlines hi-jacked' that day).
 
Alex Jones predicts WWIII in the next two months

immortalphoenix said:
There have been people claiming alex jones is being set up for a fall which would take most of the 9/11 truth movement down with him.
But i say what if he has been guided into position (directly or indirectly) for a fall but not of him but of the U.S goverment and the U.S economy.
I have been considering that he is in place to succeed in exposing 9/11 but in doing so exposing "accidently" (cough cough) that not only the the U.S goverment is corrupt to the bone.
But also expose the fact (in turn) the U.S is broke to the public and to the world causing Foreign investering to lost confidence in the U.S dollar and investing in the U.S and a result the U.S will no longer be able to stay afloat.
And the Sh?t will really hit the fan and hit everyone

i would like to hear comments and opions on this please
I think that makes sense to me. Alex Jones quite obviously is working with people from the inside, and what better way to finish off a sucessful Co-intel-op than using him as the final piece in the puzzle.
 
Well, well, well, look at who has ALEX JONES as an honourary member!

Cointelpro members are normally trained telecommunications specialists within the branches. When their time is up that branch to the civil service in want of better money and life styles.
Here's a tidbit and I think I am right in my guess and its a guess with 26 years of experience.
Most members sitting on the joint terrorism task forces are common police members but this members I have learned the hard way are normally out of Ft. Haucuacha. This is a Information security Service group for all america and the world. Reasons I can believe that news and tabloids and web sites are carrying misinformation to herd us in the directions needed. Is that they really feel that is their job, people do not need to know what we are doing and people might oppose us if they do.
I believe from the beginning way before 911 that counterintel was feeding the us military and government false information. Everything the military has and that fact the government and even the world governments are information system heavy. What we see we believe, what is sent to this center of information or screens of governments just has to be right because their the government. There could never be a lie in these workers mind that what officially is a government document could ever be anything but the truth. 911 was probably created to happen more then 20 years a go. What we are seeing today is a acceleration in speed to the next event, just what is the next event. We see muslims called muslim-facists even though very many feel like us in what happened. This is not to say that events are not happening around the world in terror or possible wars. But we are being pulled with information that is intend to control our perception of events unfolding in global power. It seems now that every article denouncing conspiracies is writting by someone with ties to the administration of the us but that in itself is not really the story but that its world wide in is efforts.
Our World is controlled by satellite communications, who controls them, who owns them and who is allowed to input to them.

911 was the strangest day ever faced by modern humans. It started with we don't know and has ended with everyone is wrong but us your leaders. 1984 is not so much a theory written by a socialist but rather a road map of things that could become reality. In that book was its greatest red flag the retooling of information by the government and the people knew that its government would never lie because it was government information.

I for one and this is only speaking for myself and I think it should be that way. I really want to know why 911 happened,who did it, who did the inside trading, and why these events led us to a war on terror. Will the truth set me free probably not in any real sense, my intersoul seeks justice
and cries out just as much as those that lost loved ones in 911+.
 
Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

Now, it is still taking me awhile to get all these messages sorted and posted. Bear with me, it's going to be worth it.

Next post indicates that things are getting a bit "warmed up". I still wasn't paying a LOT of attention to the whole thing because, like I said, I figured they would just get down to the debate, get it over and done with, and I could read it all at one fell swoop. Even if I was getting clues that maybe this wasn't going to happen, and that there were some really whacked out ideas being brought up, I was still pretty busy with my own work and didn't have much time for this.

Date sent: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:13:37 -0400
From: Jacob Roginsky
To: Gerard Holmgren
Copies to: 'Jon Moseley' and SNIPPED List
Subject: Gerard olmgren Is A Crackpot, A Liar, A Cheat

Gerard Holmgren's conspiracy theories are good evidence of his mental
illness. He has asserted that no planes hit WTC 1,2 on 911, and, I have
been told, that the images of the planes striking the buildings were a
holographic hocus-pocus. As is often the case with mentally ill
people, Holmgren is a manipulator, a pathological liar, and a cheat.

As soon as Holmgren realized that I would not be the kind of a
substandard debater he is used to, and that I would badly beat him, he
began causing obstacles to the debate and creating conditions that would
make my participation impossible. He repeatedly ignored my demands that
we agree on rules, format, and focus of the debate as a precondition to
holding it. He also repeatedly misrepresented the nature of what I had
agreed to debate (the merits of his "best" conspiracy theories).

Holmgren declined my offer to create a Yahoogroups forum in which we
would share an even playing field. Instead, he asked Rosalee Grable to
set up a blog on the Internet, and then, without a notice to me, before
any rules and focus of the debate were in place (or discussed), he
proceeded to post his "opening statement" that is misleading,
inappropriately voluminous and is not in the nature of an opening
statement.

Interestingly, the username and password that Rosalee apparently
furnished to Holmgren and me jointly, worked for Holmgren, but
apparently does not work for me -- I have been unable to post there.

Holmgren's rush to post without a notice to me and before the necessary
preliminaries were put in place is not a mere error. It was a
deliberate act to derail my participate in the debate. It was obviously
an unscrupulous act of a conniving man. In the absence of any rules
and agreed to focus, Holmgren would have undoubtedly cheated and done
all kinds of shenanigans that would turn the debate into a quagmire for
me and a joke for the observers. Clearly, Holmgren has no good
reputation to protect, as I was also told by some on this list. In the
end, without referees, he would have declare victory no matter what. In
light of these realities and considerations I had no choice but to say
good buy to the "debate." Nonetheless, I subsequently told Holmgren
that I would return to the debate if he took down his opening statement
and agreed to a refereed discussion of the rules and focus of the
debate. He rudely declined. Again, the reasons are obvious:
Holmgren would not commit to a debate in which his ability to cheat and
manipulate would not be assured.

As you see, Holmgren now posted a fraudulent statement at the blog site,
claiming that I conceded defeat without firing a shot. I have a hunch
he might know that I could not post at the same site. I'm wondering
how prevalent is the Holmgren's type in the "911 Truth Movement."

Jacob Roginsky
From: "Gerard Holmgren"
To: "'Jacob Roginsky'"
Copies to: "'Jon Moseley'" and SNIPPED List
Subject: It's squirm time for sore loser Rogisnky
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:48:25 +1000

[[As soon as Holmgren realized that I would not be the kind of a substandard
debater he is used to, and that I would badly beat him, he began causing
obstacles to the debate and creating conditions that would make my
participation impossible. ]]

Such as being allowed to post my points of evidence and not having to submit
my posts to opponent for approval.

These are the conditions which made it "impossible" for Jacob to debate. By
his only admission, the only way Jacob can debate is if he's the only one
writing.

Hee hee !

[[Holmgren declined my offer to create a Yahoogroups forum in which we would
share an even playing field. Instead, he asked Rosalee Grable to set up a
blog on the Internet, ]]

Ahem. here is what Jacob himself wrote in response to setting up the blog.


[[Thank you, Rosalee. Thank you. Gerard. This is definitely acceptable

as neutral ground.

I went to the web site, but was not asked for a password or user name.

I was lead to a posting window, however.

Does this mean anyone can post there? What do we do to restrict that?

Jacob
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 00:21:27 -0400
From: Jacob Roginsky
To: Gerard Holmgren
Copies to: 'Jon Moseley' and SNIPPED List
Subject: Holgrem is his usual manipulating self

Holmgrem's first attempt at the blog was a slight of hand. I
objected. Rosalee's offer appeared genuine, but it has nothing to do
with my complaint that Hogren dishonesty posted his "opening statement"
without checking with me as to whether I was ready to begin, or agreed
to forgo the rules and focus of the debate, or would agree for him to go
first. But he knew that I would not agree to at least the first two.

Rosalee did in fact, as I just learned, change the password at the blog
site after Hogren posted his "stuff" there. Hey, what kind of morals
should we expect from Hogren's friends?

Jacob Roginsky
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:07:27 -0400
From: Jacob Roginsky
To: Gerard Holmgren
Copies to: 'Jon Moseley' and SNIPPED LIST
Subject: Re: Gerard Hologram And His Buddies Can't Get Their Lies Straight

Gerard,

I see more than one possibility here. Perhaps less of what you do and
say should be explained by treachery and dishonesty and more by
problems of the mind. The "careless writing" excuse does not wash well
-- you stated that you did something, which you clearly did not.

Now, what is the following gem in your below post to communicate, and
to whom: "I had posted something without his permission, ordering me to
take it down."?

It is telling that you, an Australian, would be utterly consumed with
visions of a sinister US government causing holographic images of planes
to fly into rigged buildings, as this bugaboo government sets ablaze and
then demolishes the buildings, causing catastrophic loss of life and
providing pretext for the establishment of a police state in America and
throughout the world. What fear you must live under awaiting the
sinister government to come and get you in Australia for blowing its
cover!!! Such stress alone would make anyone go koo koo crazy. But
then again, perhaps you have already built an impregnable holographic
shell around you, a shell generated and sustained by the incredible
powers of your mind.
Date sent: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:20:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Treis
Subject: Pentagon debate
To: Michael and Snipped List

It all seems pretty simple to me, what happened is NOT what we were told. Look at the two gifs. That
pretty well says it all. An airliner did NOT hit the Pentagon.



Michael Treis

"It is also in the interests of a tyrant to keep his people poor, so that they may not be able to
afford the cost of protecting themselves by arms and be so occupied with their daily tasks that they
have no time for rebellion." - Aristotle

www.destructionofamerica.4t.com

www.birrenbach.com/TREIS/
See the Debate BLOG here: http://national911debate.blogspot.com/
 
Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

To: AMOJ_MAIN@yahoogroups.com
From: "Themis justice96@***
Date sent: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:21:00 -0400
Subject: [AMOJ_MAIN] The Fat Lady Sings -- 9-11 Conspiracy discussion is over
Send reply to: AMOJ_MAIN@yahoogroups.com

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

I'm praying that the entire conversation about the alleged 9/11 conspiracy is over. For the most part, I deleted the emails that alluded to it. However, I did check out the alleged 'blog' and couldn't believe what I was reading.

I live in New York. I know people who were in NYC at the Twin Towers on 9-11 - one of them was a nephew of mine who managed to get out in time.

For those people who cannot believe the TV news videos, how can they possibly explain the thousands of people who heard and/or saw the planes crash into the buildings? How can they explain the tourists who also took photos? For it to be a conspiracy, common sense should prevail because there are just too many people involved to keep such a secret for any length of time especially with the New York Times still in business.

For all the families of the passengers and employees on the planes it's a disgrace that anyone would denounce their suffering as if it never existed.

Gerard Holmgren obviously hates this country and will go to any lengths to ridicule it and its citizens. My goodness, he even believes UBL isn't telling the truth or his tapes are a fake. Funny thing, Al Jazeera must be in on the plot too. GADS!!

Please don't take this email as an opening to further discussion.

I'm the "fat lady" and I just finished my song.
From: "Gerry Donaldson"
Date sent: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:37:30 -0500
Subject: RE: [AMOJ_MAIN] The Fat Lady Sings -- 9-11 Conspiracy discussion is over
Send reply to: AMOJ_MAIN@yahoogroups.com

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]

Dear Themis,

I appreciate your frustration as there IS a lot of posting which relies on
no evidence or pushes the envelope beyond reasonableness.

Any person of conscience and the ability to review the entire evidence knows
that the question is not that planes hit the WTC. The question that all real
investigators, now including well known architectural and aeronautic
engineers, experienced pilots, demolition experts and others have raised the
following questions which the official story cannot and will not answer
(although these are the same questions that have been posed by hundreds
since 9/11) are the following, and I will only address the 2 towers and not
WTC7 or the pentagon. I will start with the provable facts:

1. No one can say that planes did not hit WTC north or south towers. Those
are evident and there is so much substantiation that these cannot be
refuted.

2. The times of these events cannot be controverted.

The real questions (simplified here) are:

1. Who were the actual terrorists on those planes. It has been proven that 8
of the "perpetrators" are still alive.

2. Could these 2 buildings have come down sheerly from the impact of these
aircraft and the burning of jet fuel? Even if assisted by charges set to
prevent such large structures from causing more damage than necessary.
(Controlled demolition)

3. Why was our Air Force ordered to stand down rather than stop the attacks.

4. Why was our President seemly not alarmed at this massive act of supposed
terrorism?

5. Why is it that the police and firemen along with many occupants of these
towers all report explosions in the towers, not from the top of the towers,
but from underneath?

6. Why is it that the administration has admitted to knowing about this
attack months before it occurred but did not react?

7. Why is it that the administration has now released information regarding
a test plan for preparedness exercises being exercised at the time of the
attacks that has the same basic presumptions that planes would be hijacked
and used as missiles specifically to target the World Trade Center?

There are many other questions, but these facts alone should raise questions
in the mind of any thinking American. This was a tragedy and no one would
say otherwise. This is why we need logical, provable research and debate on
these issues and, more importantly, we need to have answers from our
government and they have stonewalled any such public debate or a real
investigation.

Sincerely,
Gerry Donaldson
Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (Defense of Liberty Against Tyrants)
 
Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

From: "Alex James"
To: "Alex James" and SNIPPED List
Subject: FW: The Zionist Holocaust Against The Arab People, an online Holocaust Museum by Moshe Lieberman and Michael Hoffman
Date sent: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:48:55 +0300

*** For Educational & Further Research Purposes only. ***

Edited excerpts, non-partisan, pro-truth-honesty-peace, and anti-war-lies-crime. The purpose is to expose corruptions, frauds, deceptions, lies, criminal plans, cover-ups and free-speech silencing by powerful people in governments, foundations, corporations and media, which are done using the name of democracy, human rights, false interpretations of religions, cults, occults, patriotism, economy, business, media, elections, justice, charity, etc., and are used to trick the public into hatred & wars and out of their lives, money and freedoms, while the propaganda we are subjected to makes us believe that we have evolved to where such things cannot happen [remember slavery, apartheid...]. Please share what you learn with others who do not have access to the internet. Stop the hatred that is used to promote the dehumanization of the victims of aggressions; spread the truth; free your mind; don't buy the mainstream news propaganda. Caution: real news may induce a kind of schizophrenia because it provides a true vision of reality which is so different from the one we are given by the mass media. Latest real infonews available at alternate news links listed at the end. *****

http://blogs.albawaba.com/alexanderjames;

Israel holds about 10,000 Palestinians in its dungeons (mediaeval jails), including women and children. Since 9/11, about 1,000 children have been killed (crushed or burnt by Israeli bombs or tank/gun fire). Israel Adam Shamir says that the Palestinians have no chance of survival unless we free our souls from Zionist Control (article at the end). Many Jews have condemned the invasion of Iraq and now the invasion of Palestine and Lebanon. However, the minority Zionists are in control and are continuing their insane racist psychopathic Stalinist genocide, killing Palestinians and Lebanese (and Iraqis through their US proxy) with impunity. The US Neocon Cabal is complicit in the Zionist holocaust of the Arabs because it supplies the military hardware to the Zionist army and will now also supply the fuel, and also a) By jettisoning law and due process, by manufacturing a one-party state, and by repression of dissent in the media, the United States joins the ranks of other rogue states. b) By removing itself from the strictures of the 4th Geneva Conventions, and by removing itself as a signatory to the International Criminal Court and War Crimes Court, the United States of America identifies itself as a rogue state. c) By engaging in a pre-emptive war of aggression, and through rendition, torture, rape, and by violation of significant guidelines issued at Nuremberg, the United States has become complicit in immoral and terrorist acts, and thus identifies itself as a terrorist state. And Germany has also been selling military hardware to Israel including nuclear capable Dolphin class submaries.

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/archives.html

The Only Book that calls it by its Correct Name: http://www.revisionisthistory.org/images/liebermanandhoffman_small.JPG

The Israeli Holocaust Against the Palestinians http://www.revisionisthistory.org/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?p_id=125

by Moshe Lieberman and Michael Hoffman

It is important to note the following Biblical verse Revelation 2:9 "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Judaens and are not, but are the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN". (see Jews Against Zionism http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com

Anti-Zionist Rabbi Shaul Brach:

"Since the dawn of the Zionist movement, suffering has not ceased to exist in the world. All thewarnings of the Torah have been fulfilled in their details among our People all over theworld. For a believer it is no surprise that the Zionists are the same as the heretics at the time of the Destruction of the Temple."

Let us first review some Zionist quotes to get an insight into the mentality of the Zionist Supremacist leaders who are perpetrating this genocide. Olmert's statement "I want nobody to sleep at night in Gaza" omitted from US news. Patrick O'Connor.

Speaking during an interview which was published in Jerusalem Friday, Professor Martin Van Crevel said Israel had the capability of hitting most European capitals with nuclear weapons: "We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets of our air force." "Our armed forces are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that this will happen before Israel goes under."

"The nation of Israel is pure and the Arabs are a nation of donkeys. They are an evil disaster, an evil devil, and a nasty affliction. The Arabs are donkeys and beasts. They want to take our girls. They are endowed with true filthiness. There is pure and there is impure and they are impure." --Rabbi David Batzri, head of the Magen David Yeshiva in Jerusalem [Israeli newspaper Haaretz, March 21, 2006]

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]

"We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us.. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai." David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"

"We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155).

Welcome to the World's First Online Holocaust Museum Founded in 1996

The Israeli Holocaust Against the Arab People

The World Must Know! Help Keep this Holocaust Museum Online

Israelis Boldly Admit they are Collectively Punishing the Palestinian People

by Michael A. Hoffman II

From Fisher and Erlanger, in the NY Times, July 3, 2006: "The strikes appeared to be a direct response to the instructions of the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, who told subordinates at a cabinet meeting on Sunday that he intended to make the lives of Gazans ever more miserable until the captured soldier, 19-year-old Cpl. Gilad Shalit, was released...Mr. Olmert, whose air force has already bombed Gaza's bridges, crippled its only power plant, shelled the Palestinian prime minister's office here and subjected all 1.4 million Gaza residents to night after night of sleep-depriving sonic booms, said he had ordered the military and government 'to do everything in order to bring Gilad back home.'

"...the Israel military has been steadily increasing the pressure, on both the militant groups and Palestinians generally...The message, underscored regularly by Israeli officials, is that Israel would not hesitate to assassinate top Hamas leaders...Israel('s)... attacks on the infrastructure in Gaza...the bombing of the power plant, which is partly owned by an American company...still smoking four days after all six of its transformers were hit ? was visited Sunday both by the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, and the United Nations special coordinator for the Middle East peace process, Alvaro de Soto. Two days ago, Israeli warplanes also bombed the entrances to all four access roads to the plant, which is insured by the United States Overseas Private Investment Corporation, or OPIC...." (end quote)

The destruction of civilian infrastructure and property and the attacks on civilians by Israeli forces, constitute, as the Israeli Prime Minister virtually admits, collective punishment of the entire population of the Gaza Strip, a violation of Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is now on record at his cabinet meeting declaring "that he intended to make the lives of Gazans ever more miserable."

Guided Bombs Take Out Building killing innocent families including babies and children

Article http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-07-12T143253Z_01_L12236669_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-GAZA.xml

Israel allegedly targeted Hamas's top commanders in a Gaza air strike on Wednesday that killed eighteen Palestinians, and reduced to rubble a three-story building where the militants were believed to be meeting. The Israeli military said the attack wounded Mohammad Deif, leader of the governing Hamas movement's armed wing and Israel's most wanted man. The death toll was eighteen, nine being from one family. Dr. Nabil Abu Salmiyeh, a lecturer at Gaza City's Islamic University, his wife and seven of their nine children were killed. The building turned it into a tangle of twisted metal, broken concrete, blood and dust.

Kevin Phillips and the "War for Oil" Mantra http://www.revisionisthistory.org/revisionist22.html

White Nationalist Backlash Against Islam is a Sucker's Game

I Love My Own People, But I love the Truth More http://www.revisionisthistory.org/revisionist23.html

jericho_purim_2006.jpg


2006 http://www.revisionisthistory.org/purimfest2006.html

Spielberg's latest sly propaganda venture

Much Ado About"Munich" http://www.revisionisthistory.org/steinsaltz.html

Free Speech Forum for Hoffman Afforded by Iranian--not U.S.--Media:

Michael A. Hoffman II interview with the Iranian Mehr News Agency http://www.revisionisthistory.org/revisionist19.html

From Basra to Boise http://www.revisionisthistory.org/christian6.html

Reflections on the Death of Steven Vincent in Iraq and of any sense of Shame in America in the Summer of 2005

by Michael A. Hoffman II

A Monument to the Deir Yassin Massacre http://www.revisionisthistory.org/deiryassin.html

U.S. Approved Terror
pal_kids_10_06_04.JPG


A Palestinian girl carries her infant brother in the village of Beit Lahiya, Oct. 6, 2004. Both were wounded by Israeli bombs as they slept.

War Crimes which the Corporate Media do not commemorate and the International "Court of Justice" at the Hague will not prosecute

mother.GIF


At a hospital in Tyre, an Arab mother comforts her infant child who had been badly burned during the Israeli massacre of Lebanese civilians at the U.N. compound at Qana, Lebanon, April 18, 1996

tank_boy.JPG


A Palestinian David Confronts the Israeli Goliath

Oct. 29, 2000: A Palestinian boy, Fares Udah, 13, confronts an Israeli tank, during an Israeli attack on the outskirts of Gaza City. According to the boy's mother, Enaam Udah, 41, her son survived the encounter with the tank only to be shot dead by the Israelis on Nov. 8, 2000

Israeli Bombings, Assassinations and Massacres in Lebanon Are Not Investigated

The media-engineered hysteria about the "need" to expel Syria from Lebanon, allegedly for the sake of the "independence of Lebanon" and "democracy in the Middle East," displays the usual total amnesia concerning the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, the repeated terror-bombings of Lebanese hospitals, schools and infrastructure by Israelis from Menachem Begin to Ehud Barak, the Israeli establishment of the El Khiam concentration camp in Lebanon staffed by the Zionists' proxy SLA militia; and the lengthy Israeli occupation of Lebanon, which only ended when they were driven out by Lebanon's patriot army Hezbollah, in the year 2000, which has the added distinction of having liberated the El Khiam concentration camp, though this ennobling act has been flushed down the memory hole. The current, contrived drumbeat against Syria in Lebanon takes advantage of the recent assassination of a Syrian politician by persons unknown. The outcry by the neo-cons is the height of hypocrisy however, for Lebanon has been a veritable theater of Israeli assassinations, most notably that of Lebanese national Elie Hobeika, who Ariel Sharon rubbed out gangland style on Jan. 24, 2002 because Hobeika was about to testify against his former pal Sharon in a war crimes trial in Belgium
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine7.html

In true Mafia fashion, with the witness murdered, the case against Sharon, who oversees a vast assassination ("targeted killing") apparatus, collapsed. Coverage of the Lebanese protest against Sharon's murder of Hobeika was suppressed by the US news media, which treated the assassination as a trifling matter, hardly worthy of reporting or commentary. Why was there no UN investigation into Hobeika's murder? What of the Israeli Mossad's bombing of a Maronite Catholic Church in Lebanon 1994? What of the Israeli massacre of civilians at Qana, Lebanon in 1996? All down the memory hole!

FACT FILE

Arafat, the Kapo http://www.revisionisthistory.org/wire10.html

US and Israeli Crimes Against Humanity http://www.revisionisthistory.org/essay6.html


Rabbis Tell Israeli Army: Don't Spare Civilians http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine58.html

Israeli Army Has the Blood of Palestinian Children on its Hands http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine59.html


Zionist "Jews" and Zionist "Aryans" and http://www.revisionisthistory.org/essay23.html White Supremacy


Jerusalem's Dirty Little Secret http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmud1.html


Why Do They Hate Us? http://www.revisionisthistory.org/essay6.html

Message for Tariq Ramadan: Absolution for Judaism is an Offense Against Truth http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine57.html


Israeli assassination of a half-blind, elderly cripple, blown out of his wheelchair March 22, 2004 http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine56.html


Russian School Massacre in Context http://www.revisionisthistory.org/wire2.html


Israeli Terrorists, Palestinian Victims and the Masters of PR http://www.revisionisthistory.org/latest_news3.html


Israeli State Terrorism in Context: The Israeli License to Kill and the Missile that Killed 16 http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine55.html


The Israeli Massacre of Palestinians March 29 to April 18, 2002 http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine52.html


The Israeli Massacre of Palestinians, March 6-16, 2002 http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine51.html


Israelis Forbid War Crimes Investigation in Jenin http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine54.html


American Mother Shot Dead By Israeli Soldiers http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine53.html


Israeli Child Killers: Documentary Proof http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine46.html


In Defense of Progress and Enlightenment and Against Mendacious Stereotypes by Zionist Supremacists and their Lapdogs http://www.revisionisthistory.org/wilson.html


State-Sponsored Assassinations by Agents of the Israeli Government http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine7.html


Israeli Army Attacks Doctors and Ambulances in Palestine http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine2.html


Profiles of Zionist War Criminals and Racists http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine5.html


What Fuels Palestinian Rage? http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine44.html


Jewish Assassination and Media Doublethink http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine49.html


Israeli Crimes Against Humanity http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine50.html


Heil Sharon! http://www.revisionisthistory.org/latest_news1.html

A note on alleged Arab funding of this website http://www.revisionisthistory.org/funding.html

Palestinian Nearly Lynched by Jewish Mob http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine43.html

Photos of Victims of Zionism http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine38.html

The "Palestinian Destruction of the Tomb of Joseph" -- a New York Times Hoax http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine42.html

The Big Lie About Muslims and Christians http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine41.html

Shoot to Maim: Israel's Favored Ammo is Crippling a Generation of Young Palestinians http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0108/tolan.shtml

Israeli Murder of 12 year old Mohammed Al-Doura http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine39.html

Al Aqsa Intifada 2000: Israeli atrocities and war crimes http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine40.html

Hoffman Protests the Jewish Holocaust Against the Palestinians http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine33.html

Israeli Nazis Make Life for Palestinians Hell on Earth http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine37.html

The Jews of Russia and Palestine: A Comparison http://www.revisionisthistory.org/shamir.html


Mufti Says That Israelis Use Holocaust "to Win Sympathy" http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine27.html

Syrian Leader and Historians Tell Forbidden Truths about Murderers of Christ http://www.revisionisthistory.org/assad.html

Elie Wiesel: War Crimes Denier http://www.revisionisthistory.org/wiesel1.html


Israelis Terror Bomb Civilians in Lebanon Again http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine25.html


Fact Sheet on the ADL http://www.revisionisthistory.org/essay20.html

Sept. 17, 1998: Jewish Settler Murders 17 Year Old Palestinian Boy http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine24.html


The Mad Mullah http://www.revisionisthistory.org/conservatives1.html

Hoffman Confronts Kahane's "JDL" (Kach) Terrorists in Idaho http://www.revisionisthistory.org/jdl.html

Writer Freed from Israeli Concentration Camp after 5 and 1/2 Years Imprisonment http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine23.html


Shooting Arab Kids: Just Business as Usual for the Israeli Army http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine22.html

The Israeli Terrorist State and its Mossad Assassins http://www.revisionisthistory.org/essay8.html


March 17, 1998: Israeli Soldiers Murder 13 Year Old Palestinian Boy http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine21.html


March 10, 1998: Israeli Soldiers Murder 3 Palestinian Construction Workers http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine20.html


The Hamas Bombing(s) of July 30, 1997 in Context http://www.revisionisthistory.org/whore8.html


Reporters Beaten Outside Courthouse by Jewish Vigilantes http://www.revisionisthistory.org/essay14.html


Terrorist Gets a Sweethart Deal from the Local Media http://www.revisionisthistory.org/whore11.html


Chief Rabbi Urged Israeli Army to Destroy one of Islam's Holiest Mosques http://www.revisionisthistory.org/wire7197.html


When Is Terror Not Terror?
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/wire70397.html


Inside the Mossad Assassination Apparatus: The Israeli Prime Minister Orders a Murder
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine26.html


Israeli Agents Use High Tech Murder Weapon in Attack on Khaled Meshal--Government of Canada is Linked to Mossad Assassination Attempt http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine19.html


"Never Again" Does Not Apply to Them: Jews Use Poison Gas Against Palestinians http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine1.html

Lies of the Allies--Now and Then
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine18.html


Israeli Mercenaries Bombard Downtown Sidon - Kill Six Civilians http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine17.html


The Israeli Siege of the West Bank and Gaza http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine16.html


Jewish Activist Distributes Anti-Muslim Hate Literature http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine15.html


Shavuot Pogrom: "Nazis, Christians, Whores and Goyim" http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine14.html

Jewish Bulldozers and the Theft of Palestinian Land http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine13.html


A Report on the Israeli Massacre of Civilians at Qana http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine12.html


Israeli Forces Bomb Radio Station in Lebanon http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine11.html


Jewish Police Oust Bedouin Arabs and Destroy their Homes http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine10.html


Jewish Soldier Shoots Six Palestinian Civilians in Massacre Attempt http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine9.html


Other Israeli Army Shootings of Civilians http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine3.html


Jewish Vigilante Attacks on Palestinian Children http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine8.html


Israeli Soldiers Celebrate After Shooting Palestinian Protesters in the Head http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine3.html


Palestinian Police Protect and Spare 47 Encircled Jewish Soldiers http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine6.html

Israeli Army Aims for the head when Shooting Palestinian Protestors http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine4.html

Israeli Army uses Live Ammo (not 'rubber bullets') on Palestinian civilians http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine4.html

Palestinian Holocaust Museum offends Israelis http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine47.html

America Should Battle Minorities and Aliens the Way the Israelis Do http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine45.html

Talmudic Judaism is Not the Religion of the Old Testament

Interview with Michael Hoffman

CD http://www.revisionisthistory.org/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?p_id=127 : $9.95
Audio-cassette: http://www.revisionisthistory.org/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?p_id=130 $7.95

More Dramatic Holocaust Photos


Israeli Army Shoots Muslim Worshippers http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine32.html /
Israeli Army Fires on Medical Personnel and Ambulances http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine31.html

Israeli Child Murder Documented
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine29.html


Israelis Boldly Admit they are Collectively Punishing the Palestinian People
Revelation-of-the Method signals accelerated advance of Zionist supremacy

by Michael A. Hoffman II

From Fisher and Erlanger, in the NY Times, July 3, 2006: "The strikes appeared to be a direct response to the instructions of the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, who told subordinates at a cabinet meeting on Sunday that he intended to make the lives of Gazans ever more miserable until the captured soldier, 19-year-old Cpl. Gilad Shalit, was released...Mr. Olmert, whose air force has already bombed Gaza's bridges, crippled its only power plant, shelled the Palestinian prime minister's office here and subjected all 1.4 million Gaza residents to night after night of sleep-depriving sonic booms, said he had ordered the military and government 'to do everything in order to bring Gilad back home.'

"...the Israel military has been steadily increasing the pressure, on both the militant groups and Palestinians generally...The message, underscored regularly by Israeli officials, is that Israel would not hesitate to assassinate top Hamas leaders...Israel('s)... attacks on the infrastructure in Gaza...the bombing of the power plant, which is partly owned by an American company...still smoking four days after all six of its transformers were hit ? was visited Sunday both by the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, and the United Nations special coordinator for the Middle East peace process, Alvaro de Soto. Two days ago, Israeli warplanes also bombed the entrances to all four access roads to the plant, which is insured by the United States Overseas Private Investment Corporation, or OPIC...." (end quote)

The destruction of civilian infrastructure and property and the attacks on civilians by Israeli forces, constitute, as the Israeli Prime Minister virtually admits, collective punishment of the entire population of the Gaza Strip, a violation of Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is now on record at his cabinet meeting declaring "that he intended to make the lives of Gazans ever more miserable."


This is a remarkable public confession of barbarity that even a few years ago would have been concealed behind an Israeli smokescreen of humanitarian rhetoric and misdirection. But there's little need for concealment now.

Answer me: what head of state of which super-power nation on earth, be it Russia, China, the US, Britain or France, could make the following statement: "We intend to make the lives of Judaics in Israeli territory ever more miserable"?


Not one would dream or dare to do so. Any head of state making the preceding statement while his military placed the Judaic population under siege, shutting off their power and water and sending tanks and fighter jets to harass their women and children, would be brought to the bar of history, tarred and feathered, hunted down, lynched, or shot like a dog to the near-universal applause of the West.


Nothing like that will befall Olmert or his generals any time soon. They are immune to war crimes trials. They are above the law which they have established for others. Judiacs, according to their sacred rabbinic texts, are a higher order of humanity, and cannot be judged by any outside legal body or nation. Their attitude toward editorials and columns criticizing them is, this too shall pass. Indeed, there was some editorial outcry in the spring of 2002 when the Israelis committed dozens of war crimes and atrocities, also in Gaza, but all forgotten/forgiven now.


When UN war crimes investigators in 2002 attempted to interview Palestinian survivors of that onslaught, the Israelis told the UN to go to hell. There were no repercussions from the UN for that arrogant defiance on the part of a rogue state. The UN shrugged its shoulders, put its tail between its legs and called it a day. Today, the Palestinian civilians murdered in 2002 are just a statistic compiled by a few record keepers. Otherwise their deaths don't register. This is the bleakest testimony of the sub-human status of Palestinians under Judaism.

Israelis can do whatever they like to these subject people and there is no discernible punishment for "Israel," except perhaps for the fact that in an Internet age, every day a few thousand more Westerners finally grasp what the murderous ideology of Judeo-Zionism represents and become morally revolted and permanently turned-off by everything Israeli. But the Israelis obviously don't care. They are in their supremacist phase and they don't need to care.


Ehud Olmert is collectively punishing the hapless, trapped Palestinian people according to the doctrine of Chazal, Rambam and the modern halakhic authorities. This is what needs to be exhaustively documented from their own original and unimpeachable Aramaic and Hebrew sources, and then hammered constantly from every housetop, street corner, newsletter and website that we own, control or influence.

The Israelis grow ever more bold. The Zionist New York Times is serving as the Revelation of the Method mouthpiece, no longer even bothering to put up a front, as they have in the past. They openly announce and admit that Israelis are collectively punishing an entire nation of people. They do not fear the repercussions in international law because for Holy People possessed of Divine Blood, there aren't any.
Copyright 2006 by RevisionistHistory.org

http://www.israelshamir.net/search/index.shtml
The Palestinians have no chance, unless we free our souls from Zionist control.

Gaza: Of Mice and Men

By Israel Adam Shamir

A cat called to the mouse holed up under the floor: "Come out, you have nothing to worry about! I have become a pious vegetarian, preparing for my Hajj, you may play freely". "Oh wonderful news", cried the mouse and ran out of the hole; a moment of the eternity clock passed, and the mouse found herself in cat's claws, goes Nizami's fable.


This is, in brief, the development of Gaza crisis that began with Israel's phoney but much advertised "withdrawal" (a.k.a. "disengagement") from Gaza in summer 2005, followed by their phoney permission to run democratic elections for the Palestinian government.


- "Sharon changed his ways", exclaimed the good-meaning Americans and Europeans; "he - and after him, Olmert - are ready for peace and reconciliation."

- "We liberated Gaza", said Hamas.

- "Oy vey!" cried the settlers.


The cries of joy and sorrow of the fake withdrawal had not died out, when the real siege and bombardment of Gaza began. After a few months of shelling, this real takeover of Gaza and arrest of all Palestinian leadership completed the picture of a fat cat playing with the mouse.


Our readers may remember that at the height of withdrawal hullabaloo we called (in Much Ado about Gaza http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Much_ado_about_Gaza.htm ) for everyone to tone down their expectations: an Israeli pull-out is always followed by a push-in, as in a rape scene. Do not expect to see the last of them: an Englishman leaves without bidding farewell, a Jew says his farewells but does not leave, quoth a Jewish joke. Readers of this list and site received, as always, the correct forecast: indeed the Jews came back.


The intermezzo was quite sad, too. Gaza after the withdrawal was one of the most depressing places on earth, with widespread starvation and vast unemployment, and it was not the Gazans' fault: whether under Hamas or Fatah rule, Gaza can't stand alone; this narrow strip is surrounded by Israeli troops and barbed wire, the Gazans have no way to sell their goods or to import their needs but through Jewish-controlled ports. Remove the SS men from Auschwitz to its perimeter, give the camp full autonomy but keep its gates shut from outside, and you'll get a picture of Gaza. The Jews destroyed the Gazan industry and trade by their siege: Gazan fruits and flowers for export withered at Karmi checkpoint, and multimillion-dollar investment went down the drain. Gazans openly regretted their new-found "independence", because in the days of Israeli rule they could make a living working at Israeli factories, and the Israeli shelling was much more moderate, while "independent" Gaza was subjected to incessant shelling. Hundreds of missiles and shells were launched against this small strip of land daily, killing a few but ruining the nerves of its residents.


I, for one, know what that means: in 1974, my commando unit spent less than half a year in the fortified crater of an extinguished volcano some 40 km (25 miles) to the south of Damascus. We were shelled daily by Syrian artillery, and we could not respond with our light arms to their cannons. At the first exiting boom we would hide in bunkers and wait for the salvo to land. Sometimes, it was a single shell, sometimes it was followed by the inhuman squeal of a Katyusha missile. We had very few casualties: a couple of wounded and one killed for this whole period of time, but our nerves were completely shattered. We stopped brushing our teeth and shaving: it did not make sense when death is so imminent. We ceased writing letters. Even the periods of the most intense fighting we went through with dozens of killed comrades were preferable to the attrition of incessant shelling. Gazans - children, women, men, - had now almost a year of attrition made worse by aerial booming, something we were free from by virtue of Israeli air superiority.


Israeli tactics in Gaza resemble the strategy of "starving into obedience" applied by the Pentagon to North Vietnam, per the Pentagon Papers, - the single most evil piece of strategic planning in the 20th century:


"Strikes at population targets are likely not only to create a counterproductive wave of revulsion abroad and at home, but greatly to increase the risk of enlarging the war with neighbours. Destruction of locks and dams, however, does not kill or drown people. By shallow-flooding the rice, it leads after time to widespread starvation (more than a million dead?) unless food is provided--which we could offer to do at the conference table." [1] http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Gaza_Mice_Men.htm#_edn1


If the Jews were to bomb a hundred thousand Gazans to oblivion, probably there would be "a wave of revulsion", but destruction, starvation and thirst are equally efficient, and do not disturb the world conscience all that much. The destruction of a Gazan power plant was a shrewd business decision as well: this American-build and insured station competed with the Israeli Electric Company for supply of electric power to Gazans. Even running at half-capacity, the power station undermined the Jewish supplier's monopoly.[2] http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Gaza_Mice_Men.htm#_edn2 Now it is gone, and Gazans will have to buy all their electricity from Jews at a much higher price. Combining business with pleasure, this destruction also allowed Jews to "thirst Palestinians" in addition to starving them as Gaza has no rivers, and electricity is needed to operate pumps.


Still, in this short time of Gazan "independence", Gazans proved they are men, not mice. Their stubborn launching of Kassams were a sign of their unbroken spirit: they refused to be starved into obedience. Kassam is hardly a weapon in the modern meaning of the word. This is a medieval weapon, a catapult, at best: an iron mote propelled by a simple device, carrying no explosives. We built and launched such missiles when we were kids in prep school. Surely, an iron mote can kill in the unlikely case of a direct hit, but the chances are small indeed.


Their brave and well-planned raid of an Israeli siege unit has restored our appreciation of Gazans' fighting abilities. It is not a simple thing to attack tanks with your bare hands. True, Israel utilised this courageous raid to jumpstart a new invasion of Gaza, but do not make too much out of this linkage: Haaretz (29.06.06) revealed that the plans for mass arrests of Palestinian leadership and for re-invasion were prepared a long time ago.


The Israeli government referred to the raid: "a horrific, serious terror attack was carried out by Palestinian factions, which ended in the deaths of two soldiers, the injury of an additional soldier, and the kidnapping of Shalit." Our friend Jeff Blankfort wittily quipped: "One would think Shalit was a little boy walking to the candy store who had been seized by a notorious child molester and not a soldier on active duty".


A Palestinian Christian Professor and a Knesset Member, Azmi Bishara said well of the resistance fighters: "Some people chose to respond to the murder of Palestinian civilians by attacking an Israeli military installation. They made the hardest choice, and chose the difficult path. Those who did not take this path, who did not make this sacrifice, or put their courage to this test, or suffer the trembling nerves in the darkness of the tunnel, yet who have some delicacy of feeling towards the pains of the Palestinians could at least spare this operation the embarrassment of tainting it as terrorist."


Yea, when the Jews attack, that's war, when they are attacked, it is terror. Uri Avnery called it "a unilateral war", on a par with their "unilateral withdrawals". But this unilateralism is a constant feature of Jewish-Native relations: when Jews attack natives, this is rightful vengeance, when they get some of it back, it is a pogrom. Long before the Jews defamed Palestinians as terrorists, they vilified their previous native neighbours, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians, Spaniards, Germans as subhuman and vicious antisemites. If we reject their defamation of Palestinians, we may re-examine their accusation of others, and the whole narrative of Jewish suffering will collapse.


Then, the problem of Palestine, or rather the problem of Jewish mistreatment of their 'goyim' will appear as an old problem, for the way Jews act today probably is the way they acted - if they could - yesterday. Long before the apartheid wall spanned Palestine, the Jews did not allow a native Spaniard to enter the walled city of Lucena, where they held sway.[3] http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Gaza_Mice_Men.htm#_edn3 Long before they shelled Gaza, they filled Mamilla Pool in Jerusalem with blood of slaughtered Christians.


This is a good news for the descendants of Jews: we were brainwashed in hatred to 'antisemitic' mankind; came the Rape of Gaza, and now we learn that mankind was right and good, while we misbehaved. It is better to find oneself in the wrong than to accuse the whole of mankind, for one can repent.


This understanding began to seep into our conscience. A Jaffa man Anwar Sacca wrote to Dorothy Naor, a wonderful Israeli woman: "Through their [Jewish] history, unfortunately not only for Jews but for the whole world, they were always self-destructive supremacists. As a minority living within any country and enjoying its citizenship, they always antagonized their fellow citizens by totally dominating their economy, media, life styles etc...to a limitless extent which generated dreadful consequences they had to heavily pay for. The same case applies in Palestine..."


The Rape of Gaza fits too well into this centuries-proven pattern. The Jewish leadership never intended to give their captive goy a chance to lead normal life. Sooner will a cat turn vegetarian. Whatever they do, expect the worst. Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes. "Their good deeds are as dangerous as their obvious crimes". In 1880s, Dostoyevsky prophesised: if and when the Jews get power, they will skin the goy alive. In Palestine this prophesy is being realised. This is not a question of innate Jewish qualities: a Jew can be good and do good, a Jew can repent, but 'the Jews' can't because this body politic exists to compete and combat the indigenes, whether in Palestine or elsewhere.


Ideologically, a Jewish state will do the Jewish thing, that is, to fight natives and combat the Church, whether Christian or Islamic. "If the Jews of old were to come back", - wrote Simone Weil, - "they would destroy our churches and massacre us all". "The Jewish tradition is rampantly ethnocentric and dehumanises outsiders with a gusto that could hardly be exceeded", - wrote Ed Herman in his Triumph of the Market[4] http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Gaza_Mice_Men.htm#_edn4 . In the Jewish State, the Jews of old have come back, and the Jewish tradition has became paramount.


Thus, the Hamas was right in refusing to recognise the Jewish state: in no way this state can become a tolerable neighbour, whether ruled by Labour of Peretz or by Kadima of Olmert, or even in extremely unlikely case of being ruled by Mr Avnery. This state has to be dismantled, like the Assassins' extraterritorial State that once controlled the Middle East. The Assassins drew their power from their ability and preparedness to assassinate the prominent leaders of Crusaders and Muslims, while leaving alive only weak rulers who did not dare to touch them.


The Jews do the same: sometimes, by sword, sometimes, by their money, sometimes, by their media, but no strong leader has emerged within their sphere of influence.


* Assassinations by media are the most frequent, and this topic is well covered. If they decide to kill a person by their media, they try to eliminate every reference to his name; if it does not work, they attack him ad hominem, spreading lies and distortions. This treatment was recently given to the leaders of Iran: the Jewish press spread a lie that the Iranians intend to adorn every Jew with a yellow star. They lie was quickly disproved, but the retraction appeared on far-away pages of newspapers, while the damage was already done. The US politicians who tried to go against Jewish orders were usually assassinated by Jewish media and found themselves in the wilderness.


* Assassinations by money are equally frequent: enough to mention a prominent American industrialist Henry Ford who tried to combat Jewish influence. Eventually he received an offer he could not refuse; he apologised, burned his books, and repented. He preferred that to destruction of his car-making empire.


* Assassinations by sword were done when nothing else worked: Lord Moyne, Folke Bernadotte, Sheikh Yassin. Hundreds of Palestinian leaders were assassinated by Jews. Recent publication of Haaretz http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/722949.html tells of operation Zarzir (Starling), a Jewish "comprehensive, operational plan, a nationwide program of assassinations" of enemy leaders, both political (Emile Houri) and military leaders, such as Hassan Salameh and Abdel Khader al-Husseini. Khaled Meshal escaped their assassins just by chance - they tried to drop poison into his ear in a rather Shakespearian fashion.


In the days of old, salvation came from unexpected corner: West Asia was conquered by Mongols and these ruthless warriors flushed the Assassins out of their mountain retreats and utterly destroyed their conspiracy. Their harmless descendants are Ismailis, who live peacefully and do not disturb peace anymore. If we can't solve the problem, some new Mongols will dismantle the State of Sodom and render descendents of Jews as harmless as Ismailis.


Then, there is a milder way of dealing with the problem by introducing reciprocity instead of unilateralism. A medieval chronicle reports that the Jewish King of Khazar once said to a Muslim visitor: "We would destroy all the churches and mosques in our kingdom right away, but we can't for fear that they will destroy the synagogues in Baghdad and Constantinople". Indeed, if in response to the Jewish destruction of Gaza's power plant, an Israeli power plant in Caesarea were erased, and the Jews had to survive our summer without air-conditioners, they wouldn't do it again. If the Jews in Europe were limited to the rights their brethren granted to Palestinians, Palestine would be free tomorrow.


But why should we indulge in daydreaming? Who could do such a deed? The Arabs are subdued. The US conquest of Iraq eliminated the last independent Arab state. Iran is being pushed hard and this powerful Muslim state is happy every day it is not bombed. Syria is in the crosshairs of the US whom the French are helping them to contain Damascus. Never before - since Saladin - has the Middle East been so helpless and powerless.


Europe and America are equally subdued: none of prominent public figures dared to object to the Jewish Drang nach Gaza. "Why do you keep quiet?" exclaimed Jonathan Steele http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,,1813523,00.html in the Guardian (July 6, "Europe's response to the siege of Gaza is shameful"). Don't you know the answer, Mr Steele? Whoever tried, was invariably defamed as "antisemite" and "neonazi", and lost his living and his good name. I know, I tried to defend the Palestinians, and was stabbed in the back by a couple of nice Palestinian activists, Mr Ali Abunimah and Mr Nigel Perry of Electronic Intifada, followed by a cabal of other pro-Palestinian activists. Only after that did the heavy guns of Jewish media - like Aaronovitch of the Times, or Wikipedia - go into action. These good activists deserve some credit for present destruction of Palestine: if an Israel Shamir from Jaffa is attacked like that, what could expect a John Smith from Wisconsin? Whoever tried to defend Palestinians, got this treatment, unless he observed the PC rule of never uttering the J word. Still, I do not regret speaking the truth, for if we keep silent, the stones will cry out.


The Palestinians have no chance, unless we free our souls from Jewish control. And here we may turn to the second J word, more mighty than the first: Jesus. The present subservience of the West began with a minor step. In 1960s, the Western churches removed from their liturgy a prayer "Oremus et pro perfidis Judaeis", "Let us pray for perfidious Jews that our God and Lord will remove the veil from their hearts so that they too may acknowledge the light of thy truth which is our Lord Jesus Christ and be delivered from their darkness". This is a far cry from the Jewish prayer "Shepokh Hamatha", "Lord, vent your fury upon goyim who do not know your name". But the Jews preserved their prayer of vengeance, while misled and subdued Christians dropped their prayer of mercy. Say this prayer today, say it in your church, dismiss a priest who dares it not, and tomorrow you will not writhe in face of Jewish displeasure, and Gaza - and your soul - will be saved. And if your prayer will be answered, the Jews will be saved, too.


From today's Counterpunch ( www.counterpunch.org )

Echoes of 1948 and 1967
Israel's Latest Bureaucratic Obscenity

By JONATHAN COOK

The same malign intent from Israel towards the Palestinians is stamped through its history like the lettering in a children's stick of seaside rock. But despite the consistent aim of Israeli policy, generation after generation of Western politicians, diplomats and journalists has shown a repeated inability to grasp what is happening before its very eyes.

The Palestinian historian Rashid Khalidi once noted that the first goal of Israel's founders as they prepared to establish their Jewish state on a large swath of the Palestinian homeland in 1948 was to empty Palestine's urban heartlands of their educated elites.

Even before Israel's Declaration of Independence on 15 May 1948, most Palestinians had been terrified away from the two wealthiest cities in coastal Palestine, Jaffa and Haifa. Other Palestinian cities soon fell during the war of 1948: Israeli forces mostly cleansed Lydda, Ramle, Acre, Safad, Tiberias, Baysan and Bir Saba of their native populations. Today all these cities have been repopulated with Jews -- as well as renamed.

Khalidi has written: "These refugees from the urban areas of the country generally tended to be those Palestinians with the highest levels of literacy, skills, wealth, and education". Or, in other words, the small number of Palestinians allowed to remain in their homeland by Israel were peasant families living in isolated rural communities.

These Palestinians posed little threat to the new Jewish state: they lacked the education and tools to resist both the wholesale dispossession of their people and their own personal loss as their farm lands were expropriated by the state to establish the Jewish farming communes of the kibbutz and moshav movements.

And so history repeats itself. As Israel's violent siege of Gaza continues, the Associated Press reported this week that dozens of Palestinians with American passports have left Gaza, escorted out of the Strip in a convoy of United Nations vehicles. One Palestinian American mother said she and her children could no longer stand the terrifying sonic booms produced by Israeli aircraft flying overhead during the night.

These fleeing Palestinians have two things that most of their kin in Gaza lack: they have lots of money that they might have invested in rebuilding Gaza's economy were Israel not intent on destroying it; and they are familiar with a language and ideas that might have conveyed very effectively to Western audiences the horror currently being endured by Gaza's civilian population.

They are also among the least radicalised elements of Gaza's population and might have been the ones most willing to start a dialogue with Israel -- had Israel shown any interest in negotiating.

But of course their absence from Gaza, and flight to America, will not be mourned by Israel.

How much Israel fears the presence in the occupied territories of Palestinians who have lived in the West -- those who have money and influence, and speak in a language the non-Arab world can understand -- was highlighted in another piece of news this week that went mostly unnoticed.

According to the Haaretz newspaper, Israel's interior ministry has been quietly implementing a new rule since April that allows it to refuse entry to Palestinians holding foreign passports to Israel and the occupied territories. Most of those affected are Palestinians who today have citizenship in America or Europe.

Israel has this power over these Palestinians' lives because, since its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza in 1967, it has usurped control of the borders of the Palestinian territories. In another sign of how mistaken Western observers are in believing that the occupation of Gaza somehow ended with the withdrawal of Jewish settlers last year, Israel is still able to prevent Palestinians with a foreign passport (as well as those from the West Bank) from entering Gaza.

This new policy of exclusion affects thousands of the wealthiest and most educated Palestinians, some of whom have been living in the occupied territories for a decade or more investing in the economy as entrepreneurs, teaching in the universities or establishing desperately needed civil society organisations.

In another irony, many of these Palestinians have a foreign passport only because Israel stripped them of their rights to residency in the occupied territories in violation of international law. Using its control of the area's borders since 1967, Israel revoked the residency of these Palestinians while they were studying or working abroad.

As the Israeli journalist Amira Hass documented in a recent dispatch some of these Palestinians eventually came back to the occupied territories after marrying a local Palestinian resident but were refused rights of residency they should be entitled to according to the normal principles of family unification.

Instead most Palestinians with foreign passports have remained in the occupied territories at Israel's discretion: as long as they renewed their tourist visa every three months by crossing the border into Jordan or Egypt, they were left in relative peace.

But Israel is now unilaterally changing the rules (as it always does), even if it has been too embarrassed to declare the fact openly. Apparently the US embassy has been aware of the change for some time but does not think it should intervene in the "sovereign decisions" of another country -- or, more accurately, in the decisions of a sovereign country, Israel, in violating the rights of an occupied people, the Palestinians.

Palestinians with US passports have been told by Israel that, when their three-month visas expire, they will no longer be entitled to enter the occupied territories to visit their families -- except in rare "humanitarian cases" such as a close relative dying. Some will be separated from their spouse and children, while others will lose their businesses and everything they have invested in them.

With these foreign passport holders forced to leave the occupied territories, the pressure is sure to grow on their families left behind in Gaza and the West Bank to seek ways to emigrate abroad to be with them again.

The purpose of Israel's current bureaucratic obscenity is the same as it was in 1948 when its highest priority was the clearing of the Palestinian cities of their elites to make way for the establishment of the Jewish state.

This time Israel needs to empty the ghettoes it is crafting for the Palestinians of the most educated and well-connected of their number so that it can more credibly claim that there is no one "moderate" to talk to. Any Palestinian with a stake in an Israeli-imposed peace, even one that damages Palestinian national interests, will have been forced out by Israel's policies long before.

Those who remain behind, trapped by walls of concrete and steel, will be powerless to resist the unilateral and illegal expansion of Israel's borders explicit in Ehud Olmert's convergence plan.

When the only noise heard from the Palestinians in their cages is the occasional whine of a home-made Qassam rocket flying out of the ghetto into the Jewish state, we will be told by Israel and its US ally that terror is the only language the Palestinians know.

But, in truth, it may well be the only language we have left the Palestinians to speak.

Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. He is the author of the forthcoming "Blood and Religion: The Unmasking of the Jewish and Democratic State http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0745325556/counterpunchmaga " published by Pluto Press, and available in the United States from the University of Michigan Press. His website is www.jkcook.net http://www.jkcook.net/

William Hughes

"Imagine there's no countries...Nothing to live or die for...Imagine all the people living life in peace." - John Lennon

Culminating with U.S. President Harry S. Truman and his "susceptibility to Zionist influence," Israel came into existence in 1948. (1) Humanity, and in particular, the Palestinians, have paid dearly for his decision. The land on which the Palestinians had been living for centuries, in peace, with a minority Jewish population, has been gradually transformed into an Apartheid state by the machinations of the Zionist Movement and the invasion by European Ashkenazi/Khazar Jews of Russian, Polish and German ancestry. That Apartheid state, in turn, is today dominated by Israel's Death-Mayhem-and- Occupation Machine. (2)

One wonders: What would the world look like today, if the state of Israel had not been created in 1948? Its improvident formation seems to have set in motion a chain of events, mostly negative, in the affairs of Mankind. In the movie, "Click," the lead character finds a "universal remote" that allows him to rewind to different parts of his life and to change what had happened. If I possessed such a "universal remote" and could stop President Truman from aiding and abetting the establishment of an Israeli state, then, it is my speculation, (a theory), that the following 25 propositions would probably be our present day reality. They are:


1. The U.S. would not have any enemies in the Islamic World.

2. There would be no Al-Qaeda Terrorist Network.

3. Gasoline would be selling for less than $1 a gallon.

4. There would have been no 9/11.

5. There would be no USA Patriot Law.

6. There would be no Homeland Security Agency.

7. The Israeli Lobby's "unmatched power" over the U.S.' foreign policy, for over four decades, would not had existed. (Its support for the Iraqi War was deemed by the experts to be "critical.") (3)

8. There would also not have been any Neocon ideologues; like Paul Wolfowitz, William Kristol, Richard Perle, et al, to help, (along with other "Special Interests"), to push the U.S. into an illegal war with Iraq. (4)

9. Iran would not be the next target for U.S. aggression. (No Israel. No "A Clean Break" document. No Israeli Lobby. No Neocons. No need for the U.S. to attack Iran.) (5)

10. The Zionist fink, Jonathan Pollard, wouldn't be in prison for stealing U.S. military secrets and hawking them to Israel.

11. The three million-plus Palestinians, who were forcefully dispersed from their homeland, since 1948, by the Israeli Occupation Forces, (IOF), would, instead, be living happily there today, in a free and independent state of Palestine. There would be no Apartheid Wall, or as a corollary, a Hamas organization. (6)

12. Jerusalem would have a vibrant Christian population. (7)

13. Rachel Corrie of Olympia, WA, would be alive and well. (8)

14. The 2,544 Americans who have died in Iraq would be alive; and the 18,777, who have been seriously wounded there, would be fully participating in our Republic. U.S. taxpayers would have an additional $295 billion, (the cost of the war), in the treasury to use to serve the social needs of the people. Universal Health Care would be a real possibility and Social Security would not be in jeopardy. Iraq would be at peace. There would be no Gitmo Bay detention center, or an Abu Ghraib Prison, or a reason for the Bush-Cheney Gang to gut Habeas Corpus. No need for it to also employ torturers, or chemical weapons, or hold detainees without charges or trial. The Geneva Convention would be respected. The tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, who have died as a result of the war, would instead be alive today. (At the following footnote, see horrific photos of some of the Iraqi dead.) (9)

15. The battle to save our planet, its fragile ecosystem, its fast vanishing animal life and plants and to combat global warming, would be issue "No. 1." (10) Instead, we are perpetually bombarded with propaganda about defending "Israel's security."

16. If there was no Israel, then the "five dancing Israelis" on 9/11 wouldn't have been arrested. They were nailed after "celebrating" in NJ, while watching the Twin Towers collapsed. (11)

17. U.S. taxpayers would be $140 billion richer! This is the staggering amount they have shelled out over the last 58 years to support the ultra-greedy interests of the Zionist Cartel. (3)

18. The 34 Americans onboard the USS Liberty, who were slaughtered by the IOF, on June 8, 1967, would be alive today; and the 174 others who had suffered injuries that day would not have had to endure their horrific experiences. The shame the U.S. carries for not having quickly defended the men of the Liberty, and retaliated against the Israelis for their deliberate attack on the vessel, would have been avoided. (12)

19. On June 13, 2006, the IOF killed ten Palestinians, including three medical workers and two children, in the Gaza Strip. The Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, labeled the missile attack an example of "state terrorism." Only God knows how many Palestinians the Israelis have actually wasted since 1948; or exactly how many refugees it has created, or how many homes, a la Oliver Cromwell, the IOF have demolished. None of this would have been possible without the dubious "state of Israel." (13)

20. Paul Bremer, a coat holder for Henry "Iago" Kissinger, would have never been appointed Viceroy for an Occupied Iraq. No Israel. No Iraqi War. No Zionist Bremer as Viceroy of Iraq. (14)

21. One of the reasons the Warren Commission failed to properly investigate the murder of JFK was because of Arlen Specter (R-PA), a card carrying Zionist. He was then a "Special Counsel" to the Commission. He concocted t
 
Alex Jones and 911 Scholars: The Parable of the Good Shepherd

Mark Ferran checks in again. Remember Mark from a few posts back? His whole historical thing about how Iron can burn and that's the solution to the collapse of the WTC towers, never mind that building 7 collapsed in exactly the same way and it wasn't drenched with jet fuel and wasn't burning...


Date sent: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:38:37 -0700
To: "Mark Ferran"
From: Michael
Subject: Re: Professor Jones: WTC IRON BURNS!!! updated July, 14 2006
Copies to: SNIPPED List

Your personal attacks are not pretty, except as used in "pretty childish."

I graduated, receiving a Bachelor of Science, Summa Cum Laude, in 18
months in Computer Science from a University in the Northwest
Association of Colleges. My GPA was 3.98 out of 4. This was after
graduating from high school in 3 years with an adjusted GPA (for
advanced courses) of 4.12 out of 4.

I'm in Who's Who of Publishing and Communications, have produced over
500 CD-ROM, CD-I, and DVD titles in education from K-12 to Corporate
training and even medical and dental procedures. I am a pilot,
educator, lawyer, carpenter, electrician, musician (several
instruments), composer, computer programmer (9 languages),
multi-media producer, debater, animal trainer, and yes, even doctor
(as long as one includes "healers" in the category).

I aced math and science, and memorized PI to 100 decimal places just for fun.

I spent 10 years in the military electronics end of missile and
satellite systems as a civilian in my 20's. I instructed military,
including majors and colonels on the use, calibration, and
maintenance of custom hardware and software which I designed.

I currently read the world's publications on the internet, including
(but not limited to) Pravda, SMH, Hindustan Times, India Times, and
German publications, to keep my German language skills sharp. I spend
from 1 to 6 hours per day reading what's there, and filtering the
data from the chaff.

I am not a US person, or US citizen as that term is legally
synonymous with "federal personnel" defined at 5 USC 552a(a)(13),
because I have no Social Security Number.

Born in the Republic of California, I am a "national" of the United
States, and know the subtle difference. I swore an oath to uphold the
Constitution for the united states. I hold that document in the
highest regard. I find Bush(es), Clinton(s), Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice,
et al to be criminals for violating their respective oaths.

You knew nothing of these things. In addition, "All (you) know about
(me)" is wrong. I take my friendships very seriously. I do not even
know Gerard Holmgren, have never met the man, and do not address him
as my friend. I would regard him as more open-minded, less foolish,
and certainly more mature in his presentation than you have proven to
be.

If you want copies of any of the documents I have referenced, please
feel free to contact me for fees and a mailing address for your money
orders or cashier's checks. If you are as smart as you think you are,
you'll figure out how to obtain verifying documentation without
paying for it. I doubt you have that level of insight, however.

In truth,
MediaMike, Phoenix

Mark Ferran wrote:
>
>Michael apparently has trouble READING, and probably has a learning
>impediment. It would be interesting to ask him and find out
>whether he was held back in school, and whether he ever was accepted
>into any college. Also of relevance to his perception of these
>matters would be his grades in classes on chemistry, physics, math,
>etc. But, on the other hand, WHO is he, and why should anyone care
>what he thinks????? All I know about him is that he is a friend of
>foreign provocateur Gerard Holmgren.
>


--
No law repugnant to the Constitution has any valid force or effect.
 
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