Are You Getting Enough Sleep? Sleeping properly?

Trevrizent on Today at 12:06:30 PM said:
Laura said:
… Best to not eat a carb meal before bed... the egg was fine, but leave off the beans and potatoes.

Following on from the above, and, regarding the timing of eating carbohydrates and proteins.
Quote from: Sidney Baker with Karen Barr in The Circadian Prescription
Carbohydrates Provide Energy for Your Body’s Nighttime Tasks

Except that Wiley in "Lights Out" is totally down on carbs in the evening. So there is a conflict of advice here. I think her's is based on evolutionary biology and he is not taking that into account. The issue is the balance between insulin and other hormones during the night and when the insulin is up, the other hormones can't do their jobs.

Valid points, I don’t recall the passage re totally down on carbs in the evening – then your reading is more recent than mine. :)

Wiley does state:
Only eat as many carbohydrates as you need in a day, in season. … summer is an all-you-can-eat proposition, and winter is no more than 45 grams a day.

By keeping down to this low level (for the day), eating them in the evening may be OK. I don’t know. :)
 
Trevrizent said:
Trevrizent on Today at 12:06:30 PM said:
Laura said:
… Best to not eat a carb meal before bed... the egg was fine, but leave off the beans and potatoes.

Following on from the above, and, regarding the timing of eating carbohydrates and proteins.
Quote from: Sidney Baker with Karen Barr in The Circadian Prescription
Carbohydrates Provide Energy for Your Body’s Nighttime Tasks

Except that Wiley in "Lights Out" is totally down on carbs in the evening. So there is a conflict of advice here. I think her's is based on evolutionary biology and he is not taking that into account. The issue is the balance between insulin and other hormones during the night and when the insulin is up, the other hormones can't do their jobs.

Valid points, I don’t recall the passage re totally down on carbs in the evening – then your reading is more recent than mine. :)

Wiley does state:
Only eat as many carbohydrates as you need in a day, in season. … summer is an all-you-can-eat proposition, and winter is no more than 45 grams a day.

By keeping down to this low level (for the day), eating them in the evening may be OK. I don’t know. :)

Psyche has the book now so maybe she can find the relevant parts.

I think that people should realize that the main issues are these:

1) If you don't have health problems, are eating and sleeping well in general, no need to get worked up.

2) If you DO have health issues, particularly immunity problems (including autoimmune issues) then Wiley addresses that as the need to "hibernate."

3) If you are synthesizing modified hibernation, then you should be eating mainly proteins (as ice age hunters would have done), and go to sleep in absolute darkness.

4) In general, limiting the amount of artificial light - extending the day unnaturally - is bad for your immune system. All the stuff that helps detox and immunity sorts itself out in darkness. If you have extended light, your body does not have a chance to do this. Obviously, this is more serious for those with auto-immune problems.

5) I'm not entirely convinced about Wiley's presentation of our evolutionary history, mainly because it does not mesh with some other views, especially those presented in Allan and Delair's book "Cataclysm." Wiley suggests that summer is when you load on carbs until you become insulin resistant and then you hibernate, eating only protein and sleeping long hours. However, if Allan and Delair are correct, this ice age existence is a fantasy and the insulin problems are due entirely to the fact that "Golden Age Man" probably ate almost NO carbs.

So, there are a number of things to think about. And, of course, I am highly influenced right at the moment by the very hard learning experience we have all just gone through with Atriedes and the shocking realization that fruits and veggies can really be THAT damaging!!!
 
Gertrudes said:
GAIA said:
Polonel said:
Any words in this book about bruxism ? You know, this awful nocturnal teeth grinding. I suffer from it for two years now. I've never took the time to record myself during the night, but according to my girlfriend and my flatmates, it's really painful to hear.

FWIW Polonel, I had the same problem once, I would grind my teeth while sleeping, so much that it would sometimes wake up my x partner! It was a period when I worked 2 jobs (fulltime job + bartender at night) and I was definitively not getting enough sleep. When I would bartend, I would come home very late at night and sleep maybe 4 hours to get up for the next job. Plus it was also a very stressful period which I think took its toll. Anyways, I quit my second job and started going to bed at a reasonable hour and cut out the stresses in my life and what do you know....puuufffff haven't had that problem since.
Hope that helps ;)

About grinding teeth, I recall reading somewhere on the forum and possibly in the Ultra Mind Solution that grinding teeth can be related to heavy metal toxicity, and if I'm not mistaken I think that mercury specifically was pointed out, as well as a magnesium deficiency. Might not be related to you at all, but just in case.

Just wanted to add.....Holy cow, yes did I ever have cramps in my legs! In that teeth grinding period I used to wake up with the worst cramps ever! And had no idea at that time that it could of been a magnesium deficiency (thought it was just lack of resting my legs). Now I know and do take magnesium supplements every day(especially now that I'm pregnant). And you know what, the other day I ran out of supplements and didn't take it for a few days and low and behold I woke up with cramps one night.
 
Just wanted to add a note that I'm on day 3 of sleeping in complete darkness (still a few chinks of light I need to block...but for most of the night its perfect darkness now), and have been experiencing symptoms similar to taking melatonin, along with a broken nights sleep. Have been going to bed just after 10pm and getting up at 8am.

Interestingly though I've been waking up mostly refreshed......a few really noticeable changes are a general overall calmness/relaxation in my body (so anyone experiencing PTSD/body tension problems should do this I think), severely diminished mental chatter, and more emotional depth.

I've also noticed the need to make sure I'm getting more magnesium (I'm getting muscle cramps too if I forget). Between the need for magnesium and waking up in the night I'd think my system is probably detoxing.....may try taking some activated charcoal before sleep (to mop up any toxins released in sleep) and see if that helps.
 
I just wanted to add:

In the Circadian Prescription, Baker, in Rule 3, (and for those who are other than vegetable sensitive) considers most vegetables, including ‘fruit vegetables’ such as squash, cucumbers, etc, as circadian neutral – these can be eaten at any time of the day. The exceptions are starchy vegetables. Eating vegetables from tubers and roots is recommended in the evening. The true root vegetables – carrots, beets, turnips, parsnips, and radishes – are not as starchy as tubers, hence can be eaten in small amounts during the day. Tubers such as potatoes, cassava (tapioca, etc), and sweet potatoes are restricted to the evening.

This is what I have followed for the past year. Interestingly, the Eades in their book, Protein Power, recommend a maximum of 50 grams of carbs per day, throughout the whole year (compared with Wiley’s max of 45 grams in the Winter).

I look forward to Psyche’s input to clarify the situation.
 
Trevrizent said:
I look forward to Psyche’s input to clarify the situation.

I'm half way through the book. I'll scan some quotes tomorrow and thanks to a super software, I'll be able to share them here in the forum (I hope). :)
 
I tried the tinfoil on the window trick. It didn't block out nearly as much light as I was hoping (it was dark, but not pitch black). I did it by putting the tinfoil over the screens on my windows. My screens are removable from the inside, so I was hoping I could remove the screens during the day to allow light in, but put them up at night to block the ambient light from the street. But it seems the screens are far from a "light-tight" fit - a lot of light was still coming in the sides.

I really need to come up with some sort of solution to this. I do most of my work from my room on my computer, so the thought of having all light blocked off in that room permanently isn't appealing (I would essentially never see the sun). I'm considering blackout curtains in conjunction with the blocked screens, but I'm thinking the light is still going to get in from the sides and top of the curtain.

Any ideas on this? Some sort of temporary light blocking that could be taken down during the day would be ideal.
 
endymion
That's very interesting, SolarMother. This was people's normal sleep pattern before the advent of cheaply available lighting. Before our modern times, people generally had two periods of sleep at night, with a period of quiet waking between. This was well-known; so well known in fact that it was hardly remarked upon. Here's a quote from At Day’s Close: Night in Times Past, by A. Roger Ekirch. At Day’s Close is a fascinating book, and gives a real glimpse into an aspect of ordinary peoples’ lives at a time when artificial light, at night, was a much more scarce and expensive commodity than it is today.

At that time, people would have slept in total darkness, or sometimes with only moon- or star-light. It may be of course that two periods of sleep every night is not what the body needs, objectively speaking, but it is interesting that SolarMother reports a similar experience while sleeping in similar conditions.

Couldn't be better timing for your posting, Endymion! (Sorry for the delay in responding--eyes are needing more rest.) That this sleep pattern was so well known back then, and then it was 'lost,' perhaps because of a more 'modern' late night lifestyle with electricity, worsening diet and on and on-- really gives one pause.
Thank you for the quote from the book-- the information is quite a revelation, to say the least.
Now I am going to finish the thread to see what else is being said.

Quote from: A Roger Ekirch
Until the close of the early modern era, Western Europeans on most evenings experienced two major intervals of sleep bridged by up to an hour or more of quiet wakefulness. In the absence of fuller descriptions, fragments in several languages in sources ranging from depositions and diaries to imaginative literature give clues to the essential features of this puzzling pattern of repose. The initial interval of slumber was usually referred to as ‘first sleep’, or, less often, ‘first nap’ or ‘dead sleep’. in French the term was premier sonneil or premier somme, in Italian, primo sonno or primo sono, and in Latin, primo somno or concubia nocte. The succeeding interval of sleep was called ‘second’ or ‘morning’ sleep, whereas the intervening period of wakefulness bore no name, other than the generic term ‘watch’ or ‘watching’. Alternatively, two texts refer to the time of ‘first waking’.

Both phases of sleep lasted roughly the same length of time, with individuals waking sometime after midnight before returning to rest. Not everyone, of course, slept according to the same timetable. The later at night that persons went to bed, the later they stirred after their initial sleep; or, if they retired past midnight, they might not awaken at all until dawn. […]

Men and women referred to both intervals as if the prospect of awakening in the middle of the night was common knowledge that required no elaboration. ‘At mid-night when thou wak’st from sleepe,’ described the Stuart poet George Wither; while in the view of John Locke, ‘That all men sleep by intervals’ was a normal feature of life […]. […]William Harrison in his Description of England (1557) referred to ‘the dull or dead of the night, which is midnight, when men be in their first or dead sleep.’

Customary usage confirms that ‘first sleep’ constituted a distinct period of time followed by an interval of wakefulness. Typically, descriptions recounted that an aroused individual had ‘had’, ‘taken’, or ‘gotten’ his or her ‘first sleep’.
 
dugdeep said:
... I'm considering blackout curtains in conjunction with the blocked screens, but I'm thinking the light is still going to get in from the sides and top of the curtain.

I put up blackout, also thermal, curtains (fit onto existing curtains) last year after reading this book, and can confirm that there is still some light that gets in from the top and sides, and to a lesser extent the bottom. The most appears to be at the top, although it is diffused and only on the ceiling. I too, am still looking for a satisfactory solution.
 
Go to amazon.com and enter "blackout shades" in the search. LOTS of products!
 
dugdeep said:
Any ideas on this? Some sort of temporary light blocking that could be taken down during the day would be ideal.

I've had light blocking curtains that I haven't used and just put them up. Light does come in through the sides and top so I put a rolled up towel on the top and thumb-tacked the top of the sides. This blocked out all light.

Instead of a light blocking curtain, you could also use a blanket draped over a curtain rod, and buy some heavy duty trash bags and pin them to the blanket with safety pins.
 
I don't know if this helps but here in Italy it is very common to have these metal shutters on the outside of the window, usually they are manual. They are great, both for security reasons, to keep out the heat in the summer and to totally black out a room. I don't know how much they cost as they are in almost every house here.... but maybe worth a look for some of you ;)
 

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dugdeep said:
Any ideas on this? Some sort of temporary light blocking that could be taken down during the day would be ideal.

I tried using cardboard last night. It worked great for taking down in the morning and I only needed one piece of tape to help hold it up. The only issue was the cardboard didn't cover the entire window. I'll be solving that in a bit by just adding small pieces to those areas that need it, and voila!

How are folks dealing with the light that comes through the gaps in your door? I tried stuffing a towel at the bottom of the door which worked just fine, but the sides and top are another matter altogether. I was thinking some type of dense drapery that I can maybe pin above the door before bed. All the other ideas I have are too time consuming to take down and put up on a regular basis.

Redfox said:
Interestingly though I've been waking up mostly refreshed......a few really noticeable changes are a general overall calmness/relaxation in my body (so anyone experiencing PTSD/body tension problems should do this I think), severely diminished mental chatter, and more emotional depth.

I'm really looking forward to getting my bedroom light proof. I have noticed my raynauds (which also affects my ability to relax my body) is much better when I get really good sleep and stay away from certain foods that cause it to start up. Especially now that it's winter time and an ice age is creeping up fairly soon, I am concerned about getting this affliction dealt with at some point. I've been living with it for 11 years now, so I'm hoping at some point I'll be able to fix the issue through proper dieting, detox, and now, sleeping habits.
 
I read the Mercola article posted by Seamus the other day as well, and downloaded the program f.lux. I was surprised at the difference between the diferent versions of light! It took a while for my eyes to adjust but I now realize that my eyes hurt less, I must have been squinting when there was more blue in the light. I am using the daylight setting for now. I found it much easier to fall asleep after using the computer at night. I only have my computer as a playback device for sound, so I often read articles in bed at night before doing EE/POTS.

I have had increasingly severe bruxism the last two months. I have been under a lot of stress (still have not found a job) and this is usually what sets it off for me. I have been taking magnesium baths , dropping some essential oils of lavender and tea tree in as well, before bed almost every night, though these aren't ideal as the water is heavily chlorinated. A shower filter is one of those things on the list once I have some "bread" again, but I guess it's going to be a little while yet. Taking a warm bath has been helpful in sleeping more quickly too. I also often have very cold feet at night, my toes will go numb. This helps warm them up and I have noticed that my feet do not become cold again during the night. Usually they would go numb again, especially in winter. I also live in Southern CA now and the winter, while apparently a bit of a colder one for this area, is very mild compared to my old city where I lived in or nearby my whole life, so I guess I have to take this into account as well.

When I had bruxism briefly this summer, I just upped some of the nighttime supplements like magnesium, melatonin and GABA, that fixed it right away for me. Now it is not helping as much as before, just trying to be more calm about everything, coming up with alternative plans to address the issue causing the stress, eating more protein and less carbohydrate-type foods, etc help but I still am having problems. Actually this summer I was sleeping like a log generally. I was at a music festival and the school was literally located at the base of a mountain. Although I often only got 4 or 5 hours of sleep (sometimes less!) I felt very good throughout. I made a point of hiking every day and being out in the sunshine, doing a 20-minute interval workout on a bike in the morning, and often would dip in the hot tub for a few minutes at the end of the night (roughly around 2130), even if it was a couple hours before I went to sleep (usually 1 or 2am, occasionally later). Supplements, as I mentioned above, really helped too.

My roommate and also the guy who made our beds (it was like a hotel) always joked with me that they didn't even realize I had slept there- I didn't move all night and when I would get up in the morning and make the bed, it was neat and looked as if the sheets were just put on for the first time!
 
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