Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

[Laura]

Yes. You can pretty much gauge the level of detox efficacy of your body by how much Vitamin C you tolerate. If you tolerate a lot, you are sick - in a state of acute scurvy - and the less you can tolerate, the better your health. That's what we mean when we talk about titrating your dose. You take it up to the point that you get the gas and bloating and see how much you can tolerate before that happens. When my daughter was very sick, she took 55 grams within a few hours and not even a burble! Now, if she takes more than 4 or 5 grams (sometimes less), she gets bloated.

 

[andi]

Yes. You can pretty much gauge the level of detox efficacy of your body by how much Vitamin C you tolerate. If you tolerate a lot, you are sick - in a state of acute scurvy - and the less you can tolerate, the better your health. That's what we mean when we talk about titrating your dose. You take it up to the point that you get the gas and bloating and see how much you can tolerate before that happens. When my daughter was very sick, she took 55 grams within a few hours and not even a burble! Now, if she takes more than 4 or 5 grams (sometimes less), she gets bloated.

55g, wow! I'm not 100% sure but I thing 2-3g and I'm done.

I told my father about this testing technique and he says he has a lot of acidity and asked me if vitamin C will cause him to raise the acidity?
He has a lot of bile problems as well as some heart related problems with high pulse, high pressure. He doesn't want to ''believe'' that supplements can actually do a lot.

 

[Gaby]

I told my father about this testing technique and he says he has a lot of acidity and asked me if vitamin C will cause him to raise the acidity?
He has a lot of bile problems as well as some heart related problems with high pulse, high pressure. He doesn't want to ''believe'' that supplements can actually do a lot.

Hi andi,

Here is an article about vitamin C and acidity:

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v05n10.shtml
VITAMIN C AND ACIDITY
What Form is Best?

(OMNS, December 8, 2009) Vitamin C is commonly taken in large quantities to improve health and prevent asthma, allergies, viral infection, and heart disease [1,2]. It is non-toxic and non-immunogenic, and does not irritate the stomach as drugs like aspirin can. Yet vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) is acidic. So, a common question is, what are the effects from taking large quantities?

Ascorbic acid is a weak acid (pKa= 4.2) [3], only slightly stronger than vinegar. When dissolved in water, vitamin C is sour but less so than citric acid found in lemons and limes. Can large quantities of a weak acid such as ascorbate cause problems in the body? The answer is, sometimes, in some situations. However, with some simple precautions they can be avoided.

Acid in the Mouth
First of all, any acid can etch the surfaces of your teeth. This is the reason the dentist cleans your teeth and warns about plaque, for acid generated by bacteria in the mouth can etch your teeth to cause cavities. Cola soft drinks contain phosphoric acid, actually used by dentists to etch teeth before tooth sealants are applied. Like soft drinks, ascorbic acid will not cause etching of teeth if only briefly present. Often, vitamin C tablets are coated with a tableting ingredient such as magnesium stearate which prevents the ascorbate from dissolving immediately. Swallowing a vitamin C tablet without chewing it prevents its acid from harming tooth enamel.

Chewable Vitamin C Tablets
Chewables are popular because they taste sweet and so are good for encouraging children to take their vitamin C [4]. However, some chewable vitamin C tablets can contain sugar and ascorbic acid which, when chewed, is likely to stick in the crevices of your teeth. So, after chewing a vitamin C tablet, a good bit of advice is to rinse with water or brush your teeth. But the best way is to specifically select non-acidic vitamin C chewables, readily available in stores. Read the label to verify that the chewable is made entirely with non-acidic vitamin C.

Stomach Acidity
People with sensitive stomachs may report discomfort when large doses of vitamin C are taken at levels to prevent an acute viral infection (1,000-3,000 milligrams or more every 20 minutes) [1, 5]. In this case the ascorbic acid in the stomach can build up enough acidity to cause heartburn or a similar reaction. On the other hand, many people report no problems with acidity even when taking 20,000 mg in an hour. The acid normally present in the stomach, hydrochloric acid (HCl), is very strong: dozens of times more acidic than vitamin C. When one has swallowed a huge amount of ascorbate, the digestive tract is sucking it up into the bloodstream as fast as it can, but it may still take a while to do so. Some people report that they seem to sense ascorbic acid tablets "sitting" at the bottom of the stomach as they take time to dissolve. It is fairly easy to fix the problem by using buffered ascorbate, or taking ascorbic acid with food or liquids in a meal or snack. When the amount of vitamin C ingested is more than the gut can absorb, the ascorbate attracts water into the intestines creating a laxative effect. This saturation intake is called bowel tolerance. One should reduce the amount (by 20-50%) when this occurs [1].

Acid Balance in the Body
Does taking large quantities of an acid, even a weak acid like ascorbate, tip the body's acid balance (pH) causing health problems? No, because the body actively and constantly controls the pH of the bloodstream. The kidneys regulate the acid in the body over a long time period, hours to days, by selectively excreting either acid or basic components in urine. Over a shorter time period, minutes to hours, if the blood is too acid, the autonomic nervous system increases the rate of breathing, thereby removing more carbon dioxide from the blood, reducing its acidity. Some foods can indirectly cause acidity. For example, when more protein is eaten than necessary for maintenance and growth, it is metabolized into acid, which must be removed by the kidneys, generally as uric acid. In this case, calcium and/or magnesium are excreted along with the acid in the urine which can deplete our supplies of calcium and magnesium [6]. However, because ascorbic acid is a weak acid, we can tolerate a lot before it will much affect the body's acidity. Although there have been allegations about vitamin C supposedly causing kidney stones, there is no evidence for this, and its acidity and diuretic tendency actually tends to reduce kidney stones in most people who are prone to them [1,7]. Ascorbic acid dissolves calcium phosphate stones and dissolves struvite stones. Additionally, while vitamin C does increase oxalate excretion, vitamin C simultaneously inhibits the union of calcium and oxalate. [1,2].

Forms of Vitamin C
Ascorbate comes in many forms, each with a particular advantage. Ascorbic acid is the least expensive and can be purchased as tablets, timed release tablets, or powder. The larger tablets (1000-1500 mg) are convenient and relatively inexpensive. Timed-release tablets contain a long-chain carbohydrate which delays the stomach in dissolving the ascorbate, which is then released over a period of hours. This may have an advantage for maintaining a high level in the bloodstream. Ascorbic acid powder or crystals can be purchased in bulk relatively inexpensively. Pure powder is more quickly dissolved than tablets and therefore can be absorbed somewhat faster by the body. Linus Pauling favored taking pure ascorbic acid, as it is entirely free of tableting excipients.

Buffered Ascorbate
A fraction of a teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) has long been used as a safe and effective antacid which immediately lowers stomach acidity. When sodium bicarbonate is added to ascorbic acid, the bicarbonate fizzes (emitting carbon dioxide) which then releases the sodium to neutralize the acidity of the ascorbate.

Calcium ascorbate can be purchased as a powder and readily dissolves in water or juice. In this buffered form ascorbate is completely safe for the mouth and sensitive stomach and can be applied directly to the gums to help heal infections [8]. It is a little more expensive than the equivalent ascorbic acid and bicarbonate but more convenient. Calcium ascorbate has the advantage of being non-acidic. It has a slightly metallic taste and is astringent but not sour like ascorbic acid. 1000 mg of calcium ascorbate contains about 110 mg of calcium.

Other forms of buffered ascorbate include sodium ascorbate and magnesium ascorbate [9]. Most adults need 800 - 1200 mg of calcium and 400-600 mg of magnesium daily [6]. The label on the bottle of all these buffered ascorbates details how much "elemental" mineral is contained in a teaspoonful. They cost a little more than ascorbic acid.

Buffered forms of ascorbate are often better tolerated at higher doses than ascorbic acid, but they appear not to be as effective for preventing the acute symptoms of a cold. This may be because after they are absorbed they require absorbing an electron from the body to become effective as native ascorbate [1]. Some of types of vitamin C are proprietary formulas that claim benefits over standard vitamin C [9].

Liposomal Vitamin C
Recently a revolutionary form of ascorbate has become available. This form of vitamin C is packaged inside nano-scale phospholipid spheres ("liposomes"), much like a cell membrane protects its contents. The lipid spheres protect the vitamin C from degradation by the environment and are absorbed more quickly into the bloodstream. Liposomes are also known to facilitate intracellular uptake of their contents, which can cause an added clinical impact when delivering something such as vitamin C. This form is supposed to be 5-10 fold more absorbable than straight ascorbic acid. It is more expensive than ascorbic acid tablets or powder.

Ascorbyl Palmitate
Ascorbyl palmitate is composed of an ascorbate molecule bound to a palmitic acid molecule. It is amphipathic, meaning that it can dissolve in either water or fat, like the fatty acids in cell membranes. It is widely used as an antioxidant in processed foods, and used in topical creams where it is thought to be more stable than vitamin C. However, when ingested, the ascorbate component of ascorbyl palmitate is thought to be decomposed into the ascorbate and palmitic acid molecules so its special amphipathic quality is lost. It is also more expensive than ascorbic acid.

Natural Ascorbate
Natural forms of ascorbate derived from plants are available. Acerola, the "Barbados cherry," contains a large amount of vitamin C, depending on its ripeness, and was traditionally used to fight off colds. Tablets of vitamin C purified from acerola or rose hips are available but are generally low-dose and considerably more expensive than ascorbic acid. Although some people strongly advocate this type, Pauling and many others have stated that such naturally-derived vitamin C is no better than pure commercial ascorbate [2,9]. Bioflavonoids are antioxidants found in citrus fruits or rose hips and are thought to improve uptake and utilization of vitamin C. Generally, supplement tablets that contain bioflavonoids do not have enough to make much difference. For consumers on a budget, the best policy may be to buy vitamin C inexpensively whether or not it also contains bioflavonoids. Citrus fruits, peppers, and a number of other fruits and vegetables contain large quantities of bioflavinoids. This is one more reason to eat right as well as supplement.

References:

[1] Hickey S, Saul AW (2008) Vitamin C: The Real Story, the Remarkable and Controversial Healing Factor. ISBN-13: 9781591202233

[2] Pauling L (1986) How to Live Longer and Feel Better, by Linus Pauling (Revised version, 2006) ISBN-13: 9780870710964

[3] Handbook of Chemistry and Physics (2004), CRC Press, ISBN-13: 978-0849304859

[4] http://www.doctoryourself.com/megakid.html (Ideas on how to get children to take vitamin C.)

[5] Cathcart RF (1981) Vitamin C, titrating to bowel tolerance, anascorbemia, and acute induced scurvy. Med Hypotheses. 7:1359-1376.

[6] Dean C (2006) The Magnesium Miracle. (2006) ISBN-13: 9780345494580

[7] http://www.doctoryourself.com/kidney.html

[8] http://www.doctoryourself.com/gums.html (Healing gums with buffered ascorbate.)
See also: Riordan HD, Jackson, JA (1991) Topical ascorbate stops prolonged bleeding from tooth extraction. J Orthomolecular Med, 6:3-4, p 202. http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1991/pdf/1991-v06n03&04-p202.pdf or http://www.doctoryourself.com/news/v3n18.txt

[9] http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminC/vitCform.html (Information about different forms of vitamin C)

[10] http://www.doctoryourself.com/bioflavinoids.html

This article may be reprinted free of charge provided 1) that there is clear attribution to the Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, and 2) that both the OMNS free subscription link http://orthomolecular.org/subscribe.html and also the OMNS archive link http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml are included.

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, December 8, 2009

 

[andi]

Psyche, I am going to translate this for him so he can personalty have a look at it.
I thank you, the link explains it wonderfully.

 

[Gertrudes]

Hi Gertrudes, you probably need less vitamin C now that you did before. Maybe it has to do with the Ultra Simple diet, maybe your body is less stressed by evil foods. Supplements like alpha lipoic acid recycles vitamin C so it can lower your tolerance level of vitamin C. If you were bloated with 5 grams, you can try with 2 grams instead to see how it goes.

Yes. You can pretty much gauge the level of detox efficacy of your body by how much Vitamin C you tolerate. If you tolerate a lot, you are sick - in a state of acute scurvy - and the less you can tolerate, the better your health. That's what we mean when we talk about titrating your dose. You take it up to the point that you get the gas and bloating and see how much you can tolerate before that happens. When my daughter was very sick, she took 55 grams within a few hours and not even a burble! Now, if she takes more than 4 or 5 grams (sometimes less), she gets bloated.

Thank you Psyche and Laura. I'm relieved that it is just one sign of having gone beyond my current tolerance. I didn't know it could cause bloating and gas, so it got me wondering what could possibly be going on. I tried 2gm today and will see how it goes.

 

[realitybugll]

psyche thanks for that post it answers some long time questions of mine! about acidity & ph

edited:

hmm i'm reading more and I don't need to ask my question anymore. doing some reading on vitamin c tonight. thanks again.

 

[Gaby]

Another update :)

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, http://orthomolecular.org/subscribe.html
http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml.

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, June 22, 2010

Vitamin C and Cardiovascular Disease
A Personal Viewpoint by Alan Spencer and Andrew W. Saul

(OMNS, June 22, 2010) Linus Pauling was aware that studies of the animal kingdom showed that most animals have the ability to manufacture vitamin C in their bodies. Humans cannot. Furthermore, on average, mammals make 5,400mg daily when adjusted for body weight, and make more (often considerably more) when under stress or ill. This is about 100 times as much as the 50mg we get from a typical modern diet. It prompts the question, why do animals make so much vitamin C, and what purpose does it serve in the body?

A small number of animals which are known to share our inability to make vitamin C include the apes, the guinea pig, the fruit bat, and some birds, all of which will normally get a lot of vitamin C from their food. If you deprive a guinea pig of vitamin C it soon develops a form of cardiovascular disease (damage to its arteries showing within a few weeks). Similarly, studies of genetically modified mice have shown that if you switch off the gene that enables a mouse to produce vitamin C it will also soon show signs of heart disease. Re-introduction of a high vitamin C diet enables the damage to be reversed. While heart disease is rare in the animal kingdom, it is becoming a problem for apes in zoos where their diets are perhaps not as rich in vitamin C as when they are in the wild.

Collagen
A very important function of vitamin C in the body is its role in the production of collagen. Collagen is the most abundant protein in the body, and forms into fibres which are stronger than iron wire of comparable size. These fibres provide strength and stability to all body tissues, including the arteries. Vitamin C is absolutely essential for the production and repair of collagen, and is destroyed during the process, so a regular supply of vitamin C is necessary to maintain the strength of body tissues. Severe deficiency of vitamin C causes the total breakdown of body tissue witnessed in scurvy. Linus Pauling believed that whilst humans normally obtain sufficient vitamin C to prevent full-blown scurvy, we do not consume enough to maintain the strength of the walls of the arteries. He suggested that of all the structural tissues in the body, the walls of the arteries around the heart are subject to the greatest continual stress. Every time the heart beats the arteries are flattened and stretched, and this has been likened to standing on a garden hose thousands of times a day. Many tiny cracks and lesions develop and the artery walls become inflamed.

Dr. Pauling believed that in the presence of adequate supplies of vitamin C this damage can be readily repaired and heart disease is avoided. However, in the absence of adequate levels of vitamin C, the body attempts to repair the arteries using alternative materials: cholesterol and other fatty substances, which attach to the artery wall. (1-8)

Cholesterol and Lipoprotein (a), Lp(a)
The most abundant amino acids (protein building blocks) in collagen are lysine and proline, and when collagen strands are damaged lysine and proline become exposed. A special kind of cholesterol, lipoprotein(a), is attracted to lysine and proline and will attach itself to the exposed damaged collagen strands. It is an attempt by the body to repair damage to the collagen of the artery walls in the absence of adequate levels of vitamin C. Unfortunately the repair is not ideal and over many years repeated deposits can cause the artery to become narrow and inflamed. Heart attack or stroke is likely to follow (usually caused by a clot forming at the site of the narrowed artery, or by a piece of plaque breaking off and blocking a smaller vessel downstream). When vitamin C levels are low, the body manufactures more cholesterol, especially Lp(a). Conversely, when vitamin C levels are high the body makes less cholesterol.

If high blood cholesterol were the primary cause of heart disease, all bears and other hibernating animals would have become extinct long ago. They naturally have high cholesterol levels. One reason bears are still with us is simple: they produce large amounts of vitamin C in their bodies, which stabilises the artery walls, and there is therefore no tendency to develop cholesterol deposits or plaque.

Keeping healthy
The low levels of vitamin C that are available through diet are inadequate to prevent many people developing arterial plaques, and over time this may result in cardiovascular disease. Post mortem examinations showed that 77% of young American soldiers killed in the Korean war (average age 22) already had well-advanced atherosclerosis (heart disease), and post mortem studies from the Vietnam war gave similar results. Heart disease is not just a disease of the elderly, although it does not usually become life threatening until later in life.

How can we prevent it? Pauling believed that once we start taking high levels of vitamin C, the disease process is halted, or at least slowed, as Lp(a) cholesterol is no longer needed as a repair material. He also believed that when we take adequate levels of vitamin C, existing arterial plaques may start to be removed from the arteries. He found that the removal of plaques is more rapid if the amino acid lysine is taken along with vitamin C. Lysine appears to attach to the Lp(a) in existing plaque deposits and helps to loosen them. Linus Pauling recommended at least 3000mg of vitamin C per day as a preventive dose, and significantly higher levels of both vitamin C and lysine for the treatment of existing heart disease. Dosage is a key factor: low doses are ineffective.

Retention in the body
Another important point is that a single dose of vitamin C is not retained in the body for very long. This fact has been used for a long time by those who do not support the use of high doses of vitamin C as evidence that the body does not need and cannot use large doses. After a single large dose of vitamin C, the blood level quite soon returns to a low level. A lot is excreted, the high blood level only remaining for a few hours.

The key factor here is that the body is not designed to function with just a single large dose of vitamin C once a day. Animals are able to manufacture vitamin C in their bodies and do so continuously throughout the day. They have an enzyme which converts glucose to vitamin C, and each day they produce on the order of a hundred times more vitamin C than we are able to get from even a good diet. When animals are ill they manufacture even more, perhaps thousands of times more than we can get from our diet.

How much should we take?
For people who are essentially fit and well, the Vitamin C Foundation recommends perhaps 3,000mg of vitamin C per day, taken in divided doses as 500mg every four hours, as a protection against the development of heart disease. The problem with even this protective dose is that taking a tablet every four hours is not something that many people would want to adopt as part of their daily routine. But there is good evidence to suggest that this level of intake will help maintain the strength of the arteries and prevent the build up of cholesterol plaques. If everybody were to do this, perhaps heart disease would become a largely a thing of the past (as might many other chronic diseases).

When treating illness, "bowel tolerance" is the indicator of dosage level that should be used. This means taking just under the level of vitamin C (in divided doses) that results in loose stools. Everyone is different. Note that while a few 1,000mg doses a day might make you loose when you are fit and well, your "bowel tolerance" might increase to ten or even a hundred times this when very ill. So, for illness, the levels suggested by the Vitamin C Foundation are 6,000mg to 18,000mg of vitamin C per day (or up to bowel tolerance) plus 2,000mg to 6,000mg of lysine. These vitamin C levels may seem high, but are perhaps not particularly large when compared with levels seen in the animal kingdom. A substantial amount of lysine may be obtained from diet. For example, one may obtain 3,000 to 4,000 milligrams of lysine from about can and a half of beans. Supplementation reduces the need to consume that much.

Controversy
"Even though some physicians had observed forty or fifty years ago that amounts of vitamin C a hundred to a thousand times larger (than the RDA) have value in controlling various diseases, the medical profession and most scientists ignored this evidence." (Linus Pauling, How to Live Longer and Feel Better)

In medical circles, Pauling's recommendations remain controversial. However, his theory seems reasonable, and the implications are so significant that some major scientific trials should have been undertaken to assess it. This has not happened. Supporters of high-dose vitamin C have had their applications for research funding denied repeatedly, and have had to be content with carrying out small scale research projects and case studies. These have been very positive. Over the past fifteen years, Pauling therapy advocates have received hundreds of reports from heart patients who have self administered the therapy. It is reported that these people typically recover within 30 days, and the majority experience significant relief within as little as a week or two. In 1994, Linus Pauling wrote, "I think we can get almost complete control of cardiovascular disease, heart attacks and strokes by the proper use of vitamin C and lysine. It can prevent cardiovascular disease and even cure it. If you are at risk of heart disease, or if there is a history of heart disease in your family, if your father or other members of the family died of a heart attack or stroke or whatever, or if you have a mild heart attack yourself, then you had better be taking vitamin C and lysine."

References:

(1) Rath M, Pauling L. Immunological evidence for the accumulation of lipoprotein(a) in the atherosclerotic lesion of the hypoascorbemic guinea pig. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1990 Dec;87(23):9388-90. PMID: 2147514. Free full text download: http://www.pnas.org/content/87/23/9388.full.pdf

(2) Rath M, Pauling L. Hypothesis: lipoprotein(a) is a surrogate for ascorbate. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1990 Aug;87(16):6204-7. [Erratum in: Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1991 Dec 5;88(24):11588.] PMID: 2143582. Free full text download: http://www.pnas.org/content/87/16/6204.full.pdf

(3) Rath M, Pauling L. Solution To the Puzzle of Human Cardiovascular Disease: Its Primary Cause Is Ascorbate Deficiency Leading to the Deposition of Lipoprotein(a) and Fibrinogen/Fibrin in the Vascular Wall. J Orthomolecular Med, Vol 6, 3&4th Quarters, 1991, p 125. Free full text download: http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1991/pdf/1991-v06n03&04-p125.pdf

(4) Pauling L, Rath M. An Orthomolecular Theory of Human Health and Disease. J Orthomolecular Med, Vol 6, 3&4th Quarters, 1991, p 135. Free full text download: http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1991/pdf/1991-v06n03&04-p135.pdf

(5) Rath M, Pauling L. Apoprotein(a) Is An Adhesive Protein. J Orthomolecular Med, Vol 6, 3&4th Quarters, 1991, p 139. Free full text download: http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1991/pdf/1991-v06n03&04-p139.pdf

(6) Rath M, Pauling L. Case Report: Lysine/Ascorbate Related Amelioration of Angina Pectoris. J Orthomolecular Med, Vol 6, 3&4th Quarters, 1991, p 144. Free full text download: http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1991/pdf/1991-v06n03&04-p144.pdf

(7) Rath M, Pauling L. A Unified theory of Human Cardiovascular Disease Leading the Way To the Abolition of This Diseases As A Cause for Human Mortality. J Orthomolecular Med, Vol 7, First Quarter 1992, p 5. Free full text download: http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1992/pdf/1992-v07n01-p005.pdf

(8) Rath M, Pauling L. Plasmin-induced Proteolysis and the Role of Apoprotein(a), Lysine and Synthetic Lysine Analogs. J Orthomolecular Med, Vol 7, First Quarter 1992, p 17. Free full text download: http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1992/pdf/1992-v07n01-p017.pdf

For More Information:

Fonorow O. Practicing Medicine Without a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease. 2008. Lulu.com. ISBN-10: 1435712935; ISBN-13: 978-1435712935. Reviewed in J Orthomolecular Med, 2009. Vol 24, No 1, p 51-5.

Hickey S and Roberts H. Ascorbate: The Science of Vitamin C. 2004. ISBN-10: 1411607244; ISBN-13: 978-1411607248. Lulu.com. This book contains 575 references, and is reviewed at http://www.doctoryourself.com/ascorbate.html

Hickey S, Saul AW. Vitamin C: The Real Story. Laguna Beach, CA: Basic Health Publications, 2008. ISBN: 978-1-59120-223-3. This book contains 387 references, and is reviewed at http://www.doctoryourself.com/realstory.html

Levy TE. Stop America's #1 Killer: Reversible vitamin deficiency found to be the origin of all coronary heart disease. 2006. ISBN-10: 0977952002; ISBN-13: 978-0977952007. (Dr. Levy is a board-certified cardiologist.) Reviewed in J Orthomolecular Med, 2006. Vol 21, No 3, p 177-178. This book contains 60 pages of references. To download the review: http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2006/pdf/2006-v21n03-p175.pdf

Pauling L. How to Live Longer and Feel Better (Revised edition). Oregon State University Press, 2006. ISBN-10: 0870710966; ISBN-13: 978-0870710964. Reviewed in J Orthomolecular Med, 2006. Vol 21, No 3, p 175-177. To download the review: http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2006/pdf/2006-v21n03-p175.pdf

On the Web:

The Vitamin C Foundation http://www.vitamincfoundation.org

AscorbateWeb, a historical compendium of 20th-Century medical and scientific literature demonstrating the efficacy of vitamin C. http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/

Putting the "C" in Cure: Quantity and frequency are the keys to ascorbate therapy. http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v05n11.shtml

Vitamin C Saves Lives. http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n02.shtml

RDA for Vitamin C is 10% of USDA Standard for Guinea Pigs. http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v06n08.shtml

Vitamin C: What Form is Best? http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v05n10.shtml

 

[robinhoods123]

Nice info about vitamin C, And from my point of view, Vitamin C has potent antiviral and immune-boosting properties. I find that, when I feel like I'm coming down with any illness, taking 1,000 milligrams of vitamin C per hour prevents the illness from progressing. This procedure, called the ascorbic acid flush, should only be performed using buffered or esterified varieties of vitamin C with no added yeast, wheat, milk, or preservatives.

 

[andi]

Thkx Psyche for the update! :)

 

[Be Like Water]

So one day , me and my wife , we were visiting out friends and we had a small chat about what i discovered. So one of my friends suggested to look for Ascorbic acid in veterinary stores.
Idea was to find Vit C for animals :D
I must admit that it was brilliant idea :D
It is logical that Ascorbic Acid that is sold for small chickens will be cheapest and most effective choice because a lot of healthy chickens = money.

I think you are on to something here.

So I thought to myself "why would one want to give an animal that can produce it's own ascorbic acid more??". At first I thought it illogical.
But battery chickens are now presented with more environmental pressures than ever before, and much research has been done on how to stop them being sick.

After a quick search, I found this:

Effect of ascorbic acid supplementation on the immune response of chickens vaccinated and challenged with infectious bursal disease virus

Abstract

One-day-old chickens were divided into two groups and reared under similar conditions. One group was fed a diet supplemented with 1000 ppm ascorbic acid and the other group was fed an identical diet, but not supplemented with ascorbic acid. Both groups were vaccinated against infectious bursal disease (IBD) at 7 days of age and challenged orally with 4×105 of 50% embryo-lethal-dose IBDV 14 days later. The number of anti-IBDV antibody secreting cells, production of interleukin-2 (IL-2) by splenocytes, number of CD4+, CD8+ and IgM+ cells in spleen and IgM+ cells in bursa of Fabricius were compared between the two groups at 7 days (prior to vaccination), 21 days (14 days post-vaccination and prior to challenge) and 31 days (10 days post-challenge) of age. The number of CD8+ in spleen at 7 days of age and IgM+ cells in bursa at 7, 21 and 31 days of age were significantly higher in ascorbic acid supplemented group (P<0.05). Production of IL-2 by splenocytes was higher as indicated by higher stimulation indices in ascorbic acid supplemented group. The number of anti-IBDV IgG antibody secreting cells in spleen at 21 and 31 days of age were significantly higher in ascorbic acid supplemented group (P<0.05). Dietary supplementation of ascorbic acid may ameliorate the immunosuppression caused by IBDV vaccination and improve humoral and cellular immune responses.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD5-40086MB-C&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F19%2F2000&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=902057c14aa23d0626cf6ac6b782f700

So the above is basically saying more ascorbic acid, more antibody production, chickens handle immunisation better.

There seems to be a good amount of available material about ascorbic acid and its effects on chickens, a lot of it is harder to read than the above.

So, animals that can produce thier own ascorbic acid can still benefit from more. Maybe we should put this in the water instead of flouride??? ;D

 

[D69]

I am still eating my 'Chicken' Vitamin C.
It is pure L-Ascorbic Acid , without any additions.
All Vit C products that I have bought in a store , were basically insoluble in water , which means wax cover of some sort was put on it. I did some research on it.
They say it is to slow down ingestion, so you will not pee it out too early.
Personally I don't think that is true. They are covering it with wax and other crap just to slow down general intake. Then they make a research which proves that big part of Vit C that one took, will be excreted. And thats true ! Because when something is covered with wax , it will not dissolve so it will have to be put out of the system.
Thats where all research measures come from IMO.

 

[chachazoom]

It's a good idea if slugging back ascorbic acid to rinse with baking soda to neutralize (for teeth)

 

[Gaby]

In France, pharmacists are telling people that more than 3 g per day of vitamin C is bad. Here is a rebuttal :) :

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, October 12, 2010

About "Objections" to Vitamin C Therapy

(OMNS October 12, 2010) In massive doses, vitamin C (ascorbic acid) stops a cold within hours, stops influenza in a day or two, and stops viral pneumonia (pain, fever, cough) in two or three days. (1) It is a highly effective antihistamine, antiviral and antitoxin. It reduces inflammation and lowers fever. Administered intravenously, ascorbate kills cancer cells without harming healthy tissue. Many people therefore wonder, in the face of statements like these, why the medical professions have not embraced vitamin C therapy with open and grateful arms.

Probably the main roadblock to widespread examination and utilization of this all-too-simple technology is the equally widespread belief that there must be unknown dangers to tens of thousands of milligrams of ascorbic acid. Yet, since the time megascorbate therapy was introduced in the late 1940's by Fred R. Klenner, M.D. (2), there has been an especially safe, and extremely effective track record to follow.

Still, for some, questions remain. Here is a sample of what readers have asked OMNS about vitamin C:

Is 2,000 mg/day of vitamin C a megadose?
No. Decades ago, Linus Pauling and Irwin Stone showed that most animals make at least that much (or more) per human body weight per day. (3,4)

Then why has the government set the "Safe Upper Limit for vitamin C at 2,000 mg/day?
Perhaps the reason is ignorance. According to nationwide data compiled by the American Association of Poison Control Centers, vitamin C (and the use of any other dietary supplement) does not kill anyone. (5)

Does vitamin C damage DNA?
No. If vitamin C harmed DNA, why do most animals make (not eat, but make) between 2,000 and 10,000 milligrams of vitamin C per human equivalent body weight per day? Evolution would never so favor anything that harms vital genetic material. White blood cells and male reproductive fluids contain unusually high quantities of ascorbate. Living, reproducing systems love vitamin C.

Does vitamin C cause low blood sugar, B-12 deficiency, birth defects, or infertility?
Vitamin C does not cause birth defects, nor infertility, nor miscarriage. "Harmful effects have been mistakenly attributed to vitamin C, including hypoglycemia, rebound scurvy, infertility, mutagenesis, and destruction of vitamin B-12. Health professionals should recognize that vitamin C does not produce these effects." (6)

Does vitamin C . . .
A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled 14 day trial of 3,000 mg per day of vitamin C reported greater frequency of sexual intercourse. The vitamin C group (but not the placebo group) also experienced a quantifiable decrease in depression. This is probably due to the fact that vitamin C "modulates catecholaminergic activity, decreases stress reactivity, approach anxiety and prolactin release, improves vascular function, and increases oxytocin release. These processes are relevant to sexual behavior and mood." (7)

Does vitamin C cause kidney stones?
No. The myth of the vitamin C-caused kidney stone is rivaled in popularity only by the Loch Ness Monster. A factoid-crazy medical media often overlooks the fact that William J. McCormick, M.D., demonstrated that vitamin C actually prevents the formation of kidney stones. He did so in 1946, when he published a paper on the subject. (8) His work was confirmed by University of Alabama professor of medicine Emanuel Cheraskin, M.D.. Dr. Cheraskin showed that vitamin C inhibits the formation of oxalate stones. (9)

Other research reports that: "Even though a certain part of oxalate in the urine derives from metabolized ascorbic acid, the intake of high doses of vitamin C does not increase the risk of calcium oxalate kidney stones. . . (I)n the large- scale Harvard Prospective Health Professional Follow-Up Study, those groups in the highest quintile of vitamin C intake (greater than 1,500 mg/day) had a lower risk of kidney stones than the groups in the lowest quintiles." (10)

Dr. Robert F. Cathcart said, "I started using vitamin C in massive doses in patients in 1969. By the time I read that ascorbate should cause kidney stones, I had clinical evidence that it did not cause kidney stones, so I continued prescribing massive doses to patients. Up to 2006, I estimate that I have put 25,000 patients on massive doses of vitamin C and none have developed kidney stones. Two patients who had dropped their doses to 500 mg a day developed calcium oxalate kidney stones. I raised their doses back up to the more massive doses and added magnesium and B-6 to their program and no more kidney stones. I think they developed the kidney stones because they were not taking enough vitamin C."

Why did Linus Pauling die from cancer if he took all that vitamin C?
Linus Pauling, PhD, megadose vitamin C advocate, died in 1994 from prostate cancer. Mayo Clinic cancer researcher Charles G. Moertel, M.D., critic of Pauling and vitamin C, also died in 1994, and also from cancer (lymphoma). Dr. Moertel was 66 years old. Dr. Pauling was 93 years old. One needs to make up ones own mind as to whether this does or does not indicate benefit from vitamin C.

A review of the subject indicates that "Vitamin C deficiency is common in patients with advanced cancer . . . Patients with low plasma concentrations of vitamin C have a shorter survival." (11)

Does vitamin C narrow arteries or cause atherosclerosis?
Abram Hoffer, M.D., has said: "I have used vitamin C in megadoses with my patients since 1952 and have not seen any cases of heart disease develop even after decades of use. Dr. Robert Cathcart with experience on over 25,000 patients since 1969 has seen no cases of heart disease developing in patients who did not have any when first seen. He added that the thickening of the vessel walls, if true, indicates that the thinning that occurs with age is reversed. . . The fact is that vitamin C decreases plaque formation according to many clinical studies. Some critics ignore the knowledge that thickened arterial walls in the absence of plaque formation indicate that the walls are becoming stronger and therefore less apt to rupture. . . Gokce, Keaney, Frei et al gave patients supplemental vitamin C daily for thirty days and measured blood flow through the arteries. Blood flow increased nearly fifty percent after the single dose and this was sustained after the monthly treatment. (12)."

What about blood pressure?
A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study showed that hypertensive patients taking supplemental vitamin C had lower blood pressure. (13)

So why the flurry of anti-vitamin-C reporting in the mass media? Negative news gets attention. Negative news sells newspapers, and magazines, and pulls in lots of television viewers. Positive drug studies do get headlines, of course. Positive vitamin studies do not. Is this a conspiracy? You mean with unscrupulous people all sitting around a shaded table in a darkened back room? Of course not. It is nevertheless an enormous public health problem with enormous consequences.

150 million Americans take supplemental vitamin C every day. This is as much a political issue as a scientific issue. What would happen if everybody took vitamins? Perhaps doctors, hospital administrators and pharmaceutical salespeople would all be lining up for their unemployment checks.

A skeptic might conclude that there is at least some evidence that the politicians are on the wrong side of this. After all, the US RDA for vitamin C for humans is only 10% of the government's USDA vitamin C standards for Guinea pigs. (14) But conspiracy against nutritional medicine? Certainly not. Couldn't be.

References and Additional Reading:

(1) Cathcart RF. Vitamin C, titration to bowel tolerance, anascorbemia, and acute induced scurvy." Medical Hypothesis 7:1359-1376, 1981. http://www.doctoryourself.com/titration.html

See also: http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v05n09.shtml and http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v05n11.shtml

(2) Saul AW. Hidden in plain sight: the pioneering work of Frederick Robert Klenner, M.D. J Orthomolecular Med, 2007. Vol 22, No 1, p 31-38. http://www.doctoryourself.com/klennerbio.html and http://orthomolecular.org/hof/2005/fklenner.html

Dr. F.R. Klenner's Clinical Guide to the Use of Vitamin C is posted in its entirety at http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinical_guide_1988.htm

(3) Pauling L. How to Live Longer and Feel Better. Corvallis, OR: Oregon State University Press, 2006. Reviewed at http://www.doctoryourself.com/livelonger.html . Linus Pauling's complete vitamin and nutrition bibliography is posted at http://www.doctoryourself.com/biblio_pauling_ortho.html

(4) The complete text of Irwin Stone's book The Healing Factor is posted for free reading at http://vitamincfoundation.org/stone/

(5) http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v06n04.shtml

(6) Levine M et al. JAMA, April 21, 1999. Vol 281, No 15, p 1419.

(7) High-dose ascorbic acid increases intercourse frequency and improves mood: a randomized controlled clinical trial. Brody S. Biol Psychiatry 2002 Aug 15; 52(4):371-4.

(8) McCormick WJ. Lithogenesis and hypovitaminosis. Medical Record, 1946. 159:7, July, p 410-413.

(9) Cheraskin E, Ringsdorf, Jr. M and Sisley E. The Vitamin C Connection: Getting Well and Staying Well with Vitamin C. New York: Harper and Row, 1983. Also paperback, 1984: New York, Bantam Books. "Vitamin C in the urine tends to bind calcium and decrease its free form. This means less chance of calcium's separating out as calcium oxalate (stones)." [page 213] See also: Ringsdorf WM Jr, Cheraskin E. Nutritional aspects of urolithiasis. South Med J. 1981 Jan;74(1):41-3, 46.

(10) Gerster H. No contribution of ascorbic acid to renal calcium oxalate stones. Ann Nutr Metab. 1997;41(5):269-82. See also: http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n07.shtml

(11) Mayland CR, Bennett MI, Allan K. Vitamin C deficiency in cancer patients. Palliat Med. 2005 Jan;19(1):17-20. See also: http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n09.shtml and http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v04n19.shtml

(12) Free full text paper at http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/99/25/3234
See also: http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v06n20.shtml and http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n02.shtml

(13) Duffy SJ, Gokce N, Holbrook M, Huang A, Frei B, Keaney JF Jr, Vita JA. Treatment of hypertension with ascorbic acid. Lancet. 1999 Dec 11;354(9195):2048-9.

(14) http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v06n08.shtml

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[Guardian]

Hey Psyche, have you (or anyone else) ever heard/read of anyone who couldn't take Vitamin C at all (in foods, supplements, etc.) without experiencing a severe reaction?

 

[Gaby]

Hey Psyche, have you (or anyone else) ever heard/read of anyone who couldn't take Vitamin C at all (in foods, supplements, etc.) without experiencing a severe reaction?

I've never heard of anyone having a reaction to pure vitamin C. Some people have allergies, but usually it is to natural compounds that are bounded to proteins in vegetables or fruits. For example, sulfur is natural and found in our bodies, but when it is bounded to certain proteins in vegetables, it may become allergenic for sensitive people. I'm allergic to sulfur containing foods like garlic. But I tolerate DMSO just fine. I'm also allergic to citrus fruits, so getting vitamin C from citrus fruits is not for me.