AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

[shijing]

Any other suggestions most welcome.

I don't know enough to comment on your comprehensive blood and stool results, but there are a couple of points I can say something about:

MTHFR was also found on one gene so I'm having my B12 and folate levels checked.

The compound heterozygous C677T and A1298C combination is moderately bad -- there's some discussion of it in this article (and much more additional info on the MTHFR thread):

http://mthfr.net/mthfr-a1298c-mutation-some-information-on-a1298c-mthfr-mutations/2011/11/30/

It will be good to see where your B12 and folate levels are. I never had mine checked (I have to pick and choose tests according to practical (mostly financial) considerations to try to get the most 'bang for my buck'). But if you have this combination, it's very likely you'll need to make some adjustments if you haven't already -- certainly cutting synthetic folic acid from your diet if you're getting any in either food or supplements (synthetic folic acid is often added to processed foods such as breakfast cereals, so if you avoid these you're already ahead of the game), and supplementing with B12 as methylcobalamin to bypass the methylation blockage. If possible, it's best to do this with a knowledgeable doctor who can help you adjust your levels over time; if not, there's at least some good information available on the web.

It also seemed odd that no pathogens were found like I had been run through an autoclave wash n' rinse. Couldn't be right. Maybe the tests were not extensive enough.

It looks like they tested for some of the more obvious pathogens -- FWIW, it's good to have these ruled out! If you're considering mycoplasma and other cell-wall deficient forms that have been discussed on this thread, the problem is that they penetrate your cells and hide in your tissues, so a blood test isn't capable of finding them. The most common test that I've seen is a PCR (polymerase chain reaction) test, but it can be expensive and potentially hard to come by depending on where you are. In my understanding, this can also be an issue with identifying certain virii, which can hide out in nerve cells and other parts of the body and won't be detectable via a blood test.

Another problem that's been recently discussed is biofilms -- if you have microorganisms lodged in a biofilm colony, they will be protected there and enter the blood in planktonic form only sporadically. These could be detected with a blood test if you get lucky and do it at the right time, but it's hit-and-miss.

Not really sure where to go from here but I think it's better to do a full heavy metal detox and repeat the iron test again before I do anything more.

This is probably a good idea -- also because if you host a biofilm colony, EDTA can help break it down, releasing both the microorganisms and sequestered heavy metals a bit at a time. Again, best to do with a doctor's supervision if possible. Be aware that this may result in cyclical low-level herxheimer reactions -- nothing on the order of what happens during long-term antibiotic therapy, but in my experience they do seem to occur during the chelation phase of the detox.

 

[Renaissance]

Yep, me too, RedFox. I'm one of those that tolerated (and really enjoyed ) almost anything dairy. When I stopped with cow milk [and joint pain stopped), I tried goat milk and tolerated/enjoyed it too though I still came away with the symptoms from it that you mention.

I've heard the same thing with camels milk. Sean Croxton who has the show Underground Wellness had been a big promoter of raw milk for a while but after having consistent congestion he decided to give it up for a while and found his breathing cleared up. He was promoting camels milk for a while after but eventually found the same health issues coming back. I can't find the specific show, but I remain a bit skeptical of any milk.

 

[Drea]

Whew, this thread has kept me entertained for weeks! Thanks for all the hard work and digging everyone did to find this great info.
I met with my GP about 2 weeks ago and explained to her about the protocol and also had with me Garth L Nicolson's paper showing the infection/disease relationships.
She is a younger doctor and seems to be open to new things and told me that there is a lot of research being done in this area which I was surprised to hear.
Ultimately though, after a few days she responded that she didn't feel that she had enough knowledge of the subject and decided against it.
She recommended that I go see someone from Infectious Diseases but it seems futile to get help from the medical establishment with this.

After reading about the Camel's milk I got curious and did a little search to find out if there is anywhere nearby that sells it and there happens to be a farm close to me who I can buy it from.
Cow's milk is a huge no no for me and causes me all kinds of pain so I'm a little apprehensive about milk in general but if it really is as beneficial as it's touted to be then it'd be worth a try.
Camel cheese would be amazing but it sounds incredibly difficult to make. *sigh* Anyway, if I decide to jump in and try the milk I'll report back but I'm eager to see what else comes up on this thread.

 

[stellar]

Any other suggestions most welcome.

I don't know enough to comment on your comprehensive blood and stool results, but there are a couple of points I can say something about:

MTHFR was also found on one gene so I'm having my B12 and folate levels checked.

The compound heterozygous C677T and A1298C combination is moderately bad -- there's some discussion of it in this article (and much more additional info on the MTHFR thread):

http://mthfr.net/mthfr-a1298c-mutation-some-information-on-a1298c-mthfr-mutations/2011/11/30/

It will be good to see where your B12 and folate levels are. I never had mine checked (I have to pick and choose tests according to practical (mostly financial) considerations to try to get the most 'bang for my buck'). But if you have this combination, it's very likely you'll need to make some adjustments if you haven't already -- certainly cutting synthetic folic acid from your diet if you're getting any in either food or supplements (synthetic folic acid is often added to processed foods such as breakfast cereals, so if you avoid these you're already ahead of the game), and supplementing with B12 as methylcobalamin to bypass the methylation blockage. If possible, it's best to do this with a knowledgeable doctor who can help you adjust your levels over time; if not, there's at least some good information available on the web.

It also seemed odd that no pathogens were found like I had been run through an autoclave wash n' rinse. Couldn't be right. Maybe the tests were not extensive enough.

It looks like they tested for some of the more obvious pathogens -- FWIW, it's good to have these ruled out! If you're considering mycoplasma and other cell-wall deficient forms that have been discussed on this thread, the problem is that they penetrate your cells and hide in your tissues, so a blood test isn't capable of finding them. The most common test that I've seen is a PCR (polymerase chain reaction) test, but it can be expensive and potentially hard to come by depending on where you are. In my understanding, this can also be an issue with identifying certain virii, which can hide out in nerve cells and other parts of the body and won't be detectable via a blood test.

Another problem that's been recently discussed is biofilms -- if you have microorganisms lodged in a biofilm colony, they will be protected there and enter the blood in planktonic form only sporadically. These could be detected with a blood test if you get lucky and do it at the right time, but it's hit-and-miss.

Not really sure where to go from here but I think it's better to do a full heavy metal detox and repeat the iron test again before I do anything more.

This is probably a good idea -- also because if you host a biofilm colony, EDTA can help break it down, releasing both the microorganisms and sequestered heavy metals a bit at a time. Again, best to do with a doctor's supervision if possible. Be aware that this may result in cyclical low-level herxheimer reactions -- nothing on the order of what happens during long-term antibiotic therapy, but in my experience they do seem to occur during the chelation phase of the detox.

Thank you Shijing. I will re read the mthfr thread and have ordered the Iron Elephant book. In the meantime I have ordered DMSA and supplements including ALA, Zinc, Selenium, B6, E, Melatonin Taurine and NAC. I am not sure if Vit C would be wise to take until after the chelation cycles as they may be counterproductive to bringing down the iron levels.

I was on a strict keto diet for almost 3 years and then from about xmas last year I toned it down to paleo diet and by some coincidence , or not, my health issues started to make a come back. The last test in 2013 was only a little lower than today but I felt so much better. Maybe because relative to years of misery I was excited about the improvement and didn't pay attention or bother to listen to my body until now.

At least, as you say, this detox may loosen the critters and bring them out in the open ready for the protocol if necessary.

 

[shijing]

In case anyone wonders about taking colostrum because it's a dairy product, it appears that colostrum is very different from regular cow milk. It does not contain any casein and very little lactose.

Thanks Pierre, that's good to know -- I now have a bottle of colostrum, and am going to begin introducing it tomorrow. And FWIW, my experience with dairy has been similar to what RedFox and 1984 described above -- I grew up eating a lot of dairy, and lactose intolerance was never a problem for me. However, it was one of the things that contributed to brain fog and joint/muscle pain, and may also be one of the foods that causes my skin to break out -- I didn't realize that until I took it out of my diet for a few months, which I first tried around 2010.

I was on a strict keto diet for almost 3 years and then from about xmas last year I toned it down to paleo diet and by some coincidence , or not, my health issues started to make a come back. The last test in 2013 was only a little lower than today but I felt so much better. Maybe because relative to years of misery I was excited about the improvement and didn't pay attention or bother to listen to my body until now.

The holiday season can be a difficult time to navigate food-wise -- it's the most dangerous time of the year for me! If reverting to the paleo diet did lead to some issues resurfacing, maybe it's good to get back on a strict keto diet again and see if they start to reverse. I've also recently started experimenting with the mono-food schedule recommended by Drs. Rostenberg and Myhill, where you eat a single food at a sitting, doing smaller meals four or five times a day. It's something additional you can try to help heal your gut, in case that's relevant to any of the symptoms you've mentioned.

 

[Shared Joy]

Hello Shared Joy, research still continues on this issue, I would like to wait a little longer, the issue of biofilms, I see it as a necessary protocol before the protocol with doxycycline, at least for me, about two years ago, take serrapeptase my reaction was horrible, I felt a sort of tingling in the intestines, dizziness, and therefore no longer take, two other people also took it in them did not cause any reaction, that was weird, was not exactly like this in the intestines ie in the last study, the only problem I found was an inflammation in the colon, long only ate meat and fat, anything caused me many gastrointestinal problems.

After the protocol of metronidazole and allopurinol, I tolerate the onion, I'm testing with coconut oil, I'm making bombs fat with a liter of coconut oil and ghee, which use about one week, another thing that has changed I feel much more energy throughout the day, I feel more clear thoughts, even some improvement in short-term memory, like remembering number of telephones, names etc, the results of blood tests, red formula, all within the normal range marked by the laboratory, and iron profile, my serum iron, resulted below the minimum range of the laboratory, ferritin as also a little low, and other markers therefore outside the senior high lab, the body is desperate for iron, or at least that was the impression that I have, in a month I'll be redoing the iron profile, and see if there are any changes, I think that the issue of iron to the protocol, may be under control, it is low.

Hi Riclapaz, thanks for your answer.

I'll go on to see what the Metro-Allopurinol combination would trigger.

I am not exactly happy that this process involves medication (which I haven't taken a loooong time ago) but there's no free lunch.
Today I felt kind of blue, but some turmeric with a pinch cayenne pepper solved the problem for now. Maybe the change in the gut biota
demonstrated for me too that our moods depend on it!

Has anyone some experience in this field?
Thanks, and all the best for all of you!

Joy

Edit=Quote

 

[Pierre]

Here is a quick update about my reactions to the doxycycline treatment:

d3r2
Headache (1), foggy brain (3), fatigue (4), stiff neck (2), shoulder pain (2), sleepdisturbance (2)

d4r1
Nausea (4), foggy brain (2), fatigue (4), stiff neck (2), shoulder pain (2)
d4r2
Nausea (1), foggy brain (2), fatigue (2), stiff neck (2), shoulder pain (1), sleep disturbance (1)

d5r1
fatigue (1), stiff neck (1), shoulder pain (1)
d5r2 (had physical activity - 2 hours chainsawing - for the first time since the beginning of the protocol)
fatigue (2), stiff neck (2), shoulder pain (1), headache (2)

d6r1
fatigue (1), brain fog (1), headache (1)
d6r2
fatigue (1)

d7r1
fatigue (1), nausea (1)
d7r2
fatigue (1)

As you can see from day 1 to day 4 it was pretty rough. Then on day 5 most symptoms disappeared or drastically diminished. Over the whole week, symptoms can be summarized as fatigue + pain + brain fog. Today is day 8 and I took my first doses of metronidazole and allopurinol about 4 hours ago. It's too early to know the side effects yet, but I'll keep you posted :)

Here is the 3rd update about the symptoms (probably) due to the antibiotic protocol

w2d8r1 [adding allopurinol and metronidazole to doxycycline]
running nose (2), bloked left ear (3), nausea (3), fatigue (2), brain fog (2)
d8r2
bloked left ear (3), nausea (2), fatigue (4), brain fog (3), shoulder pain (1)
d8r3
bloked left ear (3), nausea (3), fatigue (5), brain fog (3), headache (3)

w2d9r1
running nose (1)
d9r2
nausea (2), fatigue (2), painful right ear (2)
d9r3
nausea (2), fatigue (2), stiff neck (1)


w2d10r1 [Stop metronidazole]
nausea (5 - vomit), fatigue (3), running nose (2), sinus pain (2), toothache (2), headache (1)
d10r2
fatigue (3), brain fog (2), stiff neck (1)
d10r3
fatigue (3), headache (1)

w2d11r1
fatigue (1), nausea (1), stiff neck (1)
d11r2
fatigue (2), stiff neck (1)
d11r3
fatigue (2), stiff neck (2), headache (1)

w2d12r1
---
d12r2
fatigue (1), stiff neck (1)
d12r3
fatigue (2), stiff neck (2), lower back pain (2)

w2d13r1
fatigue (1), lower back pain (1), running nose (1)
d13r2
fatigue (2), stiff neck (1), lower back pain (2)
d13r3
fatigue (2), stiff neck (2), lower back pain (2)


w2d14r1 [stop allo, resume metro]
fatigue (2), tummy cramps (3), foggy brain (2)
d14r2
fatigue (2), stiff neck (1), lower back pain (2), foggy brain (1)
d14r3
fatigue (3), stiff neck (2), lower back pain (2)

w3d15r1
fatigue (2), stiff neck (2), lower back pain (2), tummy pain (1)
d15r2
fatigue (2), stiff neck (1), lower back pain (1), foggy brain (1)
d15r3
fatigue (3), stiff neck (2)

w3d16r1 [metro off]
fatigue (1), foggy brain (1), running nose (1)
d16r2
fatigue (1), stiff neck (1)
d16r3
fatigue (2)

w3d17r1
fatigue (2), stiff neck (1)
d17r2
fatigue (2), stiff neck (2)
d17r3
fatigue (2), stiff neck (3)

As you can see from the above the symptoms are mostly fatigue and pain. In my case, metronidazole takes a bigger toll than allopurinol or doxycycline.

Notice that I spread the daily absorption of doxicycline over three takes instead of two in order to reduce the nausea caused by the morning dose.

The stiff neck is a recurring feature, it seems to be exarcebated by physical or even intellectual efforts. It grows into a radiating pain from the back of the right shoulder to the head, then if the effort is extended it transforms into migraine.

Physical activity seems to trigger pain in the areas involved. Maybe exercise increases blood supply in the used muscles and joints, which in turn increases antibiotic supply trigerring local Herxeimer reactions.

Over time the symptoms are decreasing which suggests that the die-off is slowing down.

 

[MusicMan]

Pierre, it seems to me that you are fairly tall, have you considered that your neck and shoulder pain may be due to your posture.
Here's a web site that talks about ergonomics, and correct posture:
_http://www.glasnevinphysicaltherapy.com/posture_plan.html

If you do a lot of work on the computer, you may be stressing your spinal structure.
Just a thought.
All the best.

 

[SeekinTruth]

FWIW, when I was first starting out on the Paleo diet in 2010, after eliminating grains and dairy, I tried reintroducing them after a few months just to see what, if any, reactions I would have. Well, I had much worse reaction to cheese than even bread. And I was a huge cheese lover and consumer all my life (just about every kind of cheese on the market) and overall high dairy consumer. Though I didn't drink much milk as an adult (I drank a lot as a child up to about age 6), I did consume a lot of condensed milk (REALLY evil), cheese, as I said, and thing like sour cream, yogurt, ice cream, cheese cake, etc. When I tried cheese after a few months of eliminating it, I felt like I had the flu and got constipated for the next couple of days (tried to reintroduce it couple of times).


Your ferritin IS on the high side, stellar. Anything above 150 really raises the risks for many serious health problems (e.g. cancer, heart disease/heart attacks, strokes, infections, etc.). So you should take care of that, and you'll probably feel better/energized for a while (if you decant blood), though you can have some herx reactions and short periods of tiredness when using EDTA.


By the way, Hulda Clark's zappers use RF (radio frequency).

 

[Laura]

I am not exactly happy that this process involves medication (which I haven't taken a loooong time ago) but there's no free lunch.
Today I felt kind of blue, but some turmeric with a pinch cayenne pepper solved the problem for now. Maybe the change in the gut biota
demonstrated for me too that our moods depend on it!

Has anyone some experience in this field?
Thanks, and all the best for all of you!

Joy

One thing I know for certain is that cayenne pepper is highly inflammatory to anyone with any of the conditions being discussed in this thread. Sydney MacDonald Baker, in "Detoxification and Healing", says that, if you are dealing with any kind of inflammation, the ONLY pepper one should consume is black pepper. No other peppers allowed since ALL of them are inflammatory. That is all nightshades should be excluded entirely. That actually includes goji berries.

Potatoes that have been completely denatured by turning them into instant potatoes can be consumed in small quantities, occasionally, but other than that, I haven't found a way around this. One pinch of cayenne in a whole pot of sauce can put me in hurt city for days!

 

[loreta]

I am reading this long threat and just wanted to thank all of you for all this information. This threat is a "mega" threat, I was not aware. The information that is here is absolutely flabbergasted. I thank Chu to have put to many of us to read this threat to understand more clearly about parasites but evidently this threat is much, much more that that. Thank you very much, really.

 

[LQB]

Studies show, that at least 1Mhz of carrier frequency is needed in order to penetrate the cells fully. Otherwise, it will mainly have an effect on the tissue (like the muscle stimulating T.E.N.S. devices). This is why the Hulda Clark zapper devices are probably not working that well against serious conditions. It seems like these zapper devices with inefficient power (no carrier wave, using only low audio frequencies. Rife used Radio Frequencies ranging from 139,200 hertz to 1,604,000.) do give some results, because they stimulate the immune system (e.g. the T-cells), but the do not efficiently kill any bad guys! See here:

Yes, as the RF frequency gets higher than about 2 KHz, you begin getting penetration of the flesh (as opposed to propagation along the skin). So the higher RF carrier frequency achieves penetration and the modulation frequency achieves the treatment.

This is why the zappers won't do much internally unless they produce very high frequency harmonics. I think zappers do work on pathogens carried in the blood via close proximity of surface blood vessels to the zapper electrodes. This is why I think the zapper should be used on the wrist or lower leg with something that improves conductivity at the electrodes. Also I think that zapper treatment times should be increased to ensure that the majority of the blood gets a chance to pass in the vicinity of the electrodes.

 

[aragorn]

Studies show, that at least 1Mhz of carrier frequency is needed in order to penetrate the cells fully. Otherwise, it will mainly have an effect on the tissue (like the muscle stimulating T.E.N.S. devices). This is why the Hulda Clark zapper devices are probably not working that well against serious conditions. It seems like these zapper devices with inefficient power (no carrier wave, using only low audio frequencies. Rife used Radio Frequencies ranging from 139,200 hertz to 1,604,000.) do give some results, because they stimulate the immune system (e.g. the T-cells), but the do not efficiently kill any bad guys! See here:

Yes, as the RF frequency gets higher than about 2 KHz, you begin getting penetration of the flesh (as opposed to propagation along the skin). So the higher RF carrier frequency achieves penetration and the modulation frequency achieves the treatment.

This is why the zappers won't do much internally unless they produce very high frequency harmonics. I think zappers do work on pathogens carried in the blood via close proximity of surface blood vessels to the zapper electrodes. This is why I think the zapper should be used on the wrist or lower leg with something that improves conductivity at the electrodes. Also I think that zapper treatment times should be increased to ensure that the majority of the blood gets a chance to pass in the vicinity of the electrodes.

Thanks for your input, LQB. I think we could really use your expertise regarding this rifing- and zapping business! I've built several Clark zappers, and also the so called Bob Beck blood purifier, and my feeling is that the latter is more effective (it's several years since I've used them). While the former is supposed to work through sending "electrical frequencies" (DC) through the body, the latter purifies the blood with a weak AC current, according the the principles given in the patent by Kaali et al., here:

http://www.google.com/patents/US5188738

It's just my personal take, but I think that Clark was definitely on to something, but her device isn't that effective. The Beck purifier is based on tested scientific principles, and is probably quite good for cleaning the blood, but for a "major" treatment of pathogens in the whole body, a rife-type of apparatus - or perhaps a combined use of these devices - is needed (if we just focus on this electromedicine option).

Oh, in case you aren't familiar with the Beck-device, you can find schematics e.g. here:

_http://www.cancertutor.com/bobbeck-schematics/

 

[JEEP]

More on antineoplastons - from greenmedinfo.com dated 4/22/12:

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/antineoplastons-cure-cancer-ignored-45-years

Antineoplastons are a group of naturally-occurring peptides and amino acid derivatives which control tumor growth, and have been proven in clinical studies on a number of advanced cancer cases to be highly effective and non-toxic, relative to chemotherapy.

First identified by Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski in human blood in 1967, he observed "[T]here were significant differences in the peptide content in the serum of cancer patients as compared with the control group."

Owing to the fact that similar peptide fractions are found in human urine and can be purified as a bulk source of antineoplastons, Dr. Burzynski began a research program "for the identification of antineoplastic peptides from urine" known as the Burzynski Research Institute (BRI), which was incorporated under the laws of the State of Delaware in 1984.

The discovery that urine contains therapeutic compounds is not novel. According to Dr. Burzynski:

"Medicinal use of urine and urine extracts has been known for centuries in ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, India and North and Central America. In modern times, the first study of growth-inhibiting substances in urine was conducted in 1937. The research on urinary peptides has a long history and was initiated by a Polish researcher, S. Bondzynski, in 1897."[ii]

Dr. Burzyinski’s research lead to the discovery of five different peptide fractions which he named Antineoplaston A1, A2, A3, A4 and A5. The first active component was identified as 3-phenylacetylamino-2,6-piperidinedione and was named Antineoplaston A10. Two synthetic derivatives of Antineoplaston A10 were named Antineoplaston AS2-1 and Antineoplaston AS2-5.

GreenMedInfo.com has done an exhaustive index of the research on the topic as found on the National Library of Medicine, which can be found on its Antineoplastons research page. The information found there indicates the preventive and/or therapeutic value of antineoplaston therapy in up to 30 diseases.

 

[Laura]

More on antineoplastons - from greenmedinfo.com dated 4/22/12:

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/antineoplastons-cure-cancer-ignored-45-years

Antineoplastons are a group of naturally-occurring peptides and amino acid derivatives which control tumor growth, and have been proven in clinical studies on a number of advanced cancer cases to be highly effective and non-toxic, relative to chemotherapy.

It's kinda hard to evaluate a therapy like this. If you read the linked papers, you find that the patients treated with it all had one or another of the standard therapies and this was used only as an adjunct. So whether it is curative or only makes the damage of chemo or radiation less aggressive, it is hard to say.

Also, it makes no claim to deal with infections and this thread IS ABOUT INFECTIONS and their relationship to acute and chronic conditions. Let's try to stay on focus.