AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

Thanks Gaby, great information.
In my case I'm dealing with autoimmune hypothyroidism, but apparently is something simultaneous with multiple sclerosis (still need to do some tests). I have already started making rounds of EDTA, and bought MSM, NAC, bromelain, curcumin, essential oil cloves. I'm taking twice daily 20 mg of doxycycline with food, but it seems that no longer makes much to stop inflammation.
I will give to my doctor the studies shared here. Question: is necessary to lower the antibodies and balance the hormonal production before starting to experiment with antibiotics?.
 
l apprenti de forgeron said:
Question: is necessary to lower the antibodies and balance the hormonal production before starting to experiment with antibiotics?.
Click to expand...

Ideally, the hormonal production has to be under control, even if that means you need to take some medication. Hyperthyroidism really can make things uncomfortable. But if you address the root of the problem, things will start getting better in all fronts.

I would recommend you get this book. The notes are glimpses here and there, but the case studies will clarify much. There is hope :flowers:
 
Thanks for the notes, Gaby. Lots of useful info and fascinating insights. I'll probably get the book and read it after I'm done with the two books currently on my list.

Just a note, l apprenti de forgeron said hypothyroidism in his post, where you replied about hyperthyroidism. Don't know if either is a typo, just wanted to mention it.
 
SeekinTruth said:
Thanks for the notes, Gaby. Lots of useful info and fascinating insights. I'll probably get the book and read it after I'm done with the two books currently on my list.

Just a note, l apprenti de forgeron said hypothyroidism in his post, where you replied about hyperthyroidism. Don't know if either is a typo, just wanted to mention it.
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It's the brain fog! :P

Yeah, hormonal imbalances does reduce your resilience to go through Herx reactions. If the imbalance is not manageable with diet and supplements, I wouldn't reject a temporary trial of thyroid hormones, especially if it makes the clinical condition better. Addressing the root problem could take care of the autoimmune reaction and subsequent hormonal imbalance, but if a person feels better on medication, then perhaps it is the best thing for the time being.

Hypothyroidism can cause cognitive issues and Herx reactions will probably compound that, at least temporarily.

Also, a severe adrenal imbalance will reduce the antibiotic's therapeutic effect. Horowitz describes a case where a person was treated for adrenal imbalances, and suddenly the protocol went better therapeutically speaking.
 
Very good information there Gaby.

It seems that it is a good book to have and show to physicians that are willing to learn more about about the subject.

How are you feeling now, btw?

I've been getting better the last couple of days. When I started the highest dose of Nystatin which is 500,000ui 3 times a day, I started having some reactions. Mostly body pain, fatigue, nausea during the night, no good sleep, anxiety, moodiness, brain fog, tachycardia, and some stomach discomfort.

But yesterday I started feeling much better, and today it seems that I'm capable of doing a little bit of workout to help in this process.

I started taking ALA, French Oak Extract, Bromelain, Vit D3 and Krill Oil again, and I think it's helping a lot because I started to feel better after a day or two with the supplements. ALA is making my urine smell strong. I was worried about it, but then I've found that it is normal. I also drink lots of green tea to help with detoxing and I might make some Aloe juice, because I have the plant here at home.

As I said before, I will also do a metronidazole/Saccharomyces boulardii/lactobacillus rhamnosus gg protocol prescribed by my doctor. I guess it will be a lower metronidazole dose than the one recommended in the protocol, but that will be defined when I get my blood testing back, because he wants to check my kidney and liver functioning first.

I wanted to ask if you think it's better to do the EDTA protocol before the metro or if it better to do the metro and then the EDTA?

From what I've read about EDTA, I assume that it'll be better to do the EDTA protocol first, since it weakens some of the microorganisms and that will make the metro protocol more effective. But I'm not sure if my assumption is correct.

ADDED: Another thing that I was wondering was that. If he wants me to do a metronidazole protocol, wouldn't it be better to do the antibiotic protocol althogether already? I mean, is it good if I just go with his metro protocol, and then, later on, I start with this antibiotic protocol, where I'll take metronidazole again? Would that affect the effectiveness of the treatment?

In any case, I can't do the antibiotic protocol now, because I won't get resting days at work, so I thought I should leave that for summer vacations... That also makes it more convenient to do the EDTA protocol before taking any antibiotic.
 
Gaby said:
Yeah, hormonal imbalances does reduce your resilience to go through Herx reactions. If the imbalance is not manageable with diet and supplements, I wouldn't reject a temporary trial of thyroid hormones, especially if it makes the clinical condition better. Addressing the root problem could take care of the autoimmune reaction and subsequent hormonal imbalance, but if a person feels better on medication, then perhaps it is the best thing for the time being.

Hypothyroidism can cause cognitive issues and Herx reactions will probably compound that, at least temporarily.

Also, a severe adrenal imbalance will reduce the antibiotic's therapeutic effect. Horowitz describes a case where a person was treated for adrenal imbalances, and suddenly the protocol went better therapeutically speaking.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much, Gaby! :flowers:
Yesterday they gave me the results of a new analysis, and now the hormone production is balanced. EDTA has certainly helped with that. In any case I will see a neurologist soon, because there may be autoimmune attacks that compromise myelin. For example, I have more spasms, numbness and really hurts in the lower back area. Also I will ask for the adrenal analysis. Thanks again!

Yas, you share the information with your doctor in English or you translate it for him?. Perhaps it would be good idea that we start to translating the protocol info to Spanish for those interested?.
 
This is another article I read on SOTT yesterday that I thought is relevant to this thread.

http://www.sott.net/article/300469-Unexpected-Trojan-horse-strategy-found-in-pathogenic-bacteria

All the reading related to this topic in the last several weeks is giving me the impression that there is a lot of conflicting/contradictory claims/evidence about antibiotic resistance out there. I've still got half way to go to finish Herbal Antibiotics, so I've also not looked at the details of some of the studies he cites, but he claims, particularly in an earlier chapter I already read, that the main problem with increasing resistance to pharmaceutical antibiotics (besides overuse & improper use/abuse) is the single chemical approach which makes it easy for the organisms to develop resistance to (and they are very adept at sensing anything harmful to them and going about neutralizing the threat). He says, convincingly, that using whole plant extracts, etc. makes it just about impossible to develop resistance because there are dozens, hundreds, or more synergistic substances, and the bacteria can't find the easy ways to dodge them like they do with single substance treatments.

That chapter is kind of alarming because, although I knew about the problem of antibiotic resistance for a long time, he uses a lot of quotes from MD's basically saying that the age of antibiotics will soon be over because of the exponential way resistance has grown (now some of the newer drugs have been seen to get resistant strains of microbes in two years or even 6 months from coming on the market).
 
Yes, the information out there concerning antibiotic resistance is mixed. Perhaps one aspect is location, Horowitz who hasn't seen that much antibiotic resistance resides in Germany, right? And e.g. Buhner lives in the US. So, at the very least, I suspect that abx resistance is higher/highest in the US where so many drugs are used in livestock etc.

One thing that surprises me with Buhner, is how he has apparently no problem with vaccines. I think that there's enough evidence, that at least some pathogens (and other problems) do come from vaccines, so that kind of surprised me. But he is an expert in his field, and has his blind spots in other areas, I guess.

And the other thing that made me think, is when he says how 'bacteria/virus have been here for millions of years, they are part of the ecosystem, without them we would die...' and that we shouldn't take the 'kill'em all' approach. This may be true, but if you add the hypothesis of virus/bacteria acting as genetic manipulators and/or a way to reduce the population, be it from alien origins, 4D STS or just clever evil scientist, then I'm sorry, I can't have much sympathy for them! I prefer having as little pathogens in my body as possible :)


Another interesting thing in his other book Herbal Antivirals book (I'm reading both books simultaneously :) ), that was new for me, was how the 1918 Spanish flu was actually the deadliest pandemic so far - even deadlier than the 'black death'. And, that when they examined this flu virus, they found that the reason it was so deadly, was because it caused a 'cytokine storm' in the body. Those with better immune defense, were actually more affected since the 'cytokine storm' was more severe in these people. And, that's why so many young(er) people died. So, in order to battle the Spanish flu, you would have had to use substances that reduce the cytokines, not things that strengthen the immune system.

ADDED: Ah, apparently Horowitz lives in New York. So much for that theory! I must have been thinking of Dr. Klinghardt.
 
Yes, factory farming definitely played a big part in the emergence of the resistance crisis, for sure. So you found out about Buhner having no problems with vaccines in the Herbal Antivirals book? (By the way the link is not active to that book - it doesn't go anywhere). Because I haven't run into anything about vaccines being OK yet in Herbal Antibiotics. If anything, vaccines have caused a much bigger health catastrophe in the last few decades than antibiotic misuse. I might want to read Herbal Antivirals too. Is it worth the read/is it as good as Herbal Antibiotics?
 
Yas said:
I wanted to ask if you think it's better to do the EDTA protocol before the metro or if it better to do the metro and then the EDTA?

From what I've read about EDTA, I assume that it'll be better to do the EDTA protocol first, since it weakens some of the microorganisms and that will make the metro protocol more effective. But I'm not sure if my assumption is correct.

ADDED: Another thing that I was wondering was that. If he wants me to do a metronidazole protocol, wouldn't it be better to do the antibiotic protocol althogether already? I mean, is it good if I just go with his metro protocol, and then, later on, I start with this antibiotic protocol, where I'll take metronidazole again? Would that affect the effectiveness of the treatment?

In any case, I can't do the antibiotic protocol now, because I won't get resting days at work, so I thought I should leave that for summer vacations... That also makes it more convenient to do the EDTA protocol before taking any antibiotic.
Click to expand...

Hello Yas,

I'm glad to hear you're feeling better! Addressing fungi is really very important. It could also make the heavy metal detox much easier.

I'm currently doing my third round of metro. So far, so good. I was supposed to start yesterday, but I moved it for today in order to be at home. The second metro round was pretty bad because I was no longer taking cortisone to palliate Herx reactions.

I felt like I was running a high fever, my lower limbs felt very weak, joint pains mostly in hands and feet and a little bit on knees. Pain is bearable, but it really made me very tired. I also woke up one day with pains on the soles of my feet. It was a very peculiar thing, something is definitely going on.

I also had PMS "on steroids". I doubled and then tripled my doses of CoQ10, ALA, NAC and vitamin C and felt better. I also worked on meditating on a couple of phrases which felt as useful for this moment in time and had lots of releasing tears. Then, I had shift work yesterday and felt much more grounded and with better energy levels.

I think it makes more sense to do a heavy metal detox with EDTA (or DMSA) before the metronidazol. The metro is probably going to do its work now, but for practical purposes, you could do EDTA now and save the metro for later according to time availability. Doing doxy and metro is VERY effective against intracellular bacteria. They both have mechanisms of action that complement each other and would eradicate bugs much more effectively. And doing some heavy metal chelation first, does seem a priority before proceeding with antibiotics.

Hope this helps and hope you'll feel better and better!
 
l apprenti de forgeron said:
Yesterday they gave me the results of a new analysis, and now the hormone production is balanced. EDTA has certainly helped with that. In any case I will see a neurologist soon, because there may be autoimmune attacks that compromise myelin. For example, I have more spasms, numbness and really hurts in the lower back area. Also I will ask for the adrenal analysis. Thanks again!
Click to expand...

I would bring up the possibility of chronic persistent infections such as Lyme disease or mycoplasma. That way, if they already have to run several tests including a spinal fluid test, they could have it in mind. They might not have access to the required lab tests, but still, it would be interesting to run a differential diagnosis and see what comes up.

Some tests can be very invasive and you've already gone through quite a lot of them. Let us know how it goes and how you're feeling and doing throughout this process.

I'm glad that this research exists at this moment in time. You'll find it very useful!! :flowers:
 
SeekinTruth said:
All the reading related to this topic in the last several weeks is giving me the impression that there is a lot of conflicting/contradictory claims/evidence about antibiotic resistance out there. I've still got half way to go to finish Herbal Antibiotics, so I've also not looked at the details of some of the studies he cites, but he claims, particularly in an earlier chapter I already read, that the main problem with increasing resistance to pharmaceutical antibiotics (besides overuse & improper use/abuse) is the single chemical approach which makes it easy for the organisms to develop resistance to (and they are very adept at sensing anything harmful to them and going about neutralizing the threat). He says, convincingly, that using whole plant extracts, etc. makes it just about impossible to develop resistance because there are dozens, hundreds, or more synergistic substances, and the bacteria can't find the easy ways to dodge them like they do with single substance treatments.
Click to expand...

Aragorn said:
Yes, the information out there concerning antibiotic resistance is mixed. Perhaps one aspect is location, Horowitz who hasn't seen that much antibiotic resistance resides in Germany, right? [...]

ADDED: Ah, apparently Horowitz lives in New York. So much for that theory! I must have been thinking of Dr. Klinghardt.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he is in the United States, home of "antibiotic resistance" land.

I noticed that a lot of material on antibiotic resistance applies for bugs that are not necessarily the "main concern" for the topic at hand. I know a lot of people suffer from bugs that are multiresistant to drugs and they would benefit from alternative approaches: diet, vitamin C, herbs, etc. But resistant staph, pseudomonas, streptococci, E. coli and so forth are the stuff you find in the intensive care unit or in a hospital setting. Or people usually have several debilitating conditions like diabetes, COPD, etc. These people have sepsis, organ failure, were connected to breathing machines, they eat lots of sugar, etc. Those are the cases of antibiotic resistance that I've seen.

For example, when describing pneumonia, you have to specify it it was acquired on a community setting or in an hospital setting. The latter one, is much more worse because bugs from hospitals are much more virulent. "Plague Time" book discusses the evolutionary aspects as to why.

You could say that in a sense, the bugs that concerns chronic diseases including autoimmune disease, are the stuff acquired in the community, even when they can be hard to eradicate.

They are very different from the usual bugs. The ones we are addressing hide inside the cells, they are intracelullar. Sneaky little things!!!

Richard Horowitz and related researchers have suggested higher doses of specific antibiotics and longer periods of treatment. They are sort of "pioneers" in this line of approach. Maybe that is one of the reasons they report no antibiotic resistance. They "nuke" it, no questions asked so to speak. They also combine treatments with herbs and other supplements, but also anti-malarials, acupuncture and other medicines.

Horowitz also admits that anti-virals are pretty much useless in his clinical experience and that alternative approaches probably are much more better and cost-effective.

In the end, it is not so white and black, although we'll have to be on guard against cognitive biases from both sides: the alternative medicine community and the mainstream one and all shades in between. That is why it is important to research and network, share data and compare. Hopefully people will heal from unnecessary suffering this way.

My 2 cents!
 
Gaby said:
For example, when describing pneumonia, you have to specify it it was acquired on a community setting or in an hospital setting. The latter one, is much more worse because bugs from hospitals are much more virulent. "Plague Time" book discusses the evolutionary aspects as to why.

You could say that in a sense, the bugs that concerns chronic diseases including autoimmune disease, are the stuff acquired in the community, even when they can be hard to eradicate.

They are very different from the usual bugs. The ones we are addressing hide inside the cells, they are intracelullar. Sneaky little things!!!
Click to expand...

The point about virulent VS non-virulent strain is very important. I think it was one of the most interesting ideas developed in Plague Time.

Basically virulent and non virulent strains are competitors (using same nutrient, same locations, etc.). While the virulent strains require quick transmission (before the host dies), non-virulent ones prosper when the transmission rate is weak.

That is why prevention: avoiding promiscuity, airport, cities, hospitals; consuming clean water and uncontaminated food, using mosquito nets, etc. is important. In this way we decrease the transmission rate. This favours non virulent strain which in turn overpower the virulent ones.

This evolutionary perspective has been demonstrated numerous times. One notorious case is HIV where the prevalence of the virulent HIV1 strain is higher in countries like Congo which exhibit high level of multipartner sexual activity (high transmission rate) while HIV2 is prevalent in countries like Senegal which display a lower level extramarital activities.

Our protocol can help destroying some nasty pathogens and help put our overloaded/confused immune system back on the right track.

In addition, according to Ewalt, reducing our exposition to external pathogens (prevention) should create an environment that favours begnin strains who will naturally eliminate virulent ones.
 
Possibly related to the main topic, has any of you given a look to Electrophoresis?

Electrophoresis is the motion of dispersed particles relative to a fluid under the influence of a spatially uniform electric field. This electrokinetic phenomenon was observed for the first time in 1807 by Ferdinand Frederic Reuss (Moscow State University), who noticed that the application of a constant electric field caused clay particles dispersed in water to migrate. It is ultimately caused by the presence of a charged interface between the particle surface and the surrounding fluid. It is the basis for a number of analytical techniques used in biochemistry for separating molecules by size, charge, or binding affinity.

Electrophoresis of positively charged particles (cations) is called cataphoresis, while electrophoresis of negatively charged particles (anions) is called anaphoresis. Electrophoresis is a technique used in laboratories in order to separate macromolecules based on size. The technique applies a negative charge so proteins move towards a positive charge. This is used for both DNA and RNA analysis. Polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis (PAGE) has a clearer resolution than agarose and is more suitable for quantitative analysis. In this technique DNA foot-printing can identify how proteins bind to DNA. It can be used to separate proteins by size, density and purity. It can also be used for plasmid analysis, which develops our understanding of bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics.
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So here are some possible protocol adjustments based on Horowitz's research (Why Can't I Get Better) and people's experiments and results.

Recall that Garth Nicolson suggested Hydroxychloroquine (brand name Plaquenil or Dolquine) which is an anti-malarial often used in Rheumatoid Arthritis and lupus. Richard Horowitz always suggests it. It alkalinizes the intracellular compartment and doxy can work better this way.

Richard Horowitz's protocols are included in Appendix A of his book. It includes full doses and suggested combinations. It is very similar to Garth Nicolson's protocol.

Horowitz suggests using metronidazol at the same doses we are trying, but 3 days per week instead of two. He reserves metro for his hard cases, i.e. babesiosis (typically people who have drenching sweats and lots of psychiatric symptoms, other than pains and related Lyme disease symptoms).

So if there is lack of improvement after a period of time and/or lack of Herx reactions, Hydroxychloroquine and one more day of metro could be tried.

Suggested dose of Hydroxychloroquine: 200mg twice per day. If a person is small, doing it once per day is reasonable.

A prescription is needed for Hydroxychloroquine and possible side effects should not be underestimated. They are dose dependent and rare according to clinical experience, but as always, expect the worse, hope for the best and take what comes!

If you have tingling and other nerve symptoms such as burning sensations and related neuropathic pain, always take methylated vitamin B to help decrease the possible side effects of metronidazol which includes neuropathy.

FWIW!
 
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