AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

Found an interesting article which is related in an off-hand way to the topics discussed in this thread. A team of researches has shown how, contrary to what was previously thought, innate immunity does have immunological memory. They did this by administering the LPS molecule into mice, which has the effect of weakening the activity of the ATF7 transcription factor that silences the expression of innate immune genes. What they found was that 3 weeks after the administration of this molecule, the genes still showed increased activation of these innate immune genes.

_http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-08-epigenomic-key-innate-immunological-memory.html

Epigenomic changes are key to innate immunological memory

A research team led by Keisuke Yoshida and Shunsuke Ishii of the RIKEN Molecular Genetics Laboratory has revealed that epigenomic changes induced by pathogen infections, mediated by a transcription factor called ATF7, are the underlying mechanism of the memory of innate immunity.

It was long believed that acquired immunity—a type of immunity mediated by T- and B-cells—had memory, meaning that it could learn from new pathogens, making subsequent reactions more effective, whereas innate immunity—which is mediated by macrophages and other types of cells that react to certain molecules typically associated with pathogens—did not.

However, it gradually became clear that things were not so simple. Plants and insects, which only have innate immunity, also seem to have immunological memory. Further, it has been reported that herpes virus infection increases the resistance against bacteria in vertebrates. These phenomena suggest that innate immunity also has memory, but researchers have been reluctant to accept the hypothesis given the lack of a mechanism Now, in research published in Nature Immunology, a research team led by Keisuke Yoshida and Shunsuke Ishii of the RIKEN Molecular Genetics Laboratory has revealed that epigenomic changes induced by pathogen infections, mediated by a transcription factor called ATF7, are the underlying mechanism of the memory of innate immunity.

The research began from the discovery that in ATF7 knockout mice, macrophages appear similar to wild-type macrophages that have been activated by exposure to molecules that occur commonly in infections. The group had previously reported that ATF7-related transcription factors mediated epigenomic changes induced by heat shock or psychological stress, and that these changes were maintained for long periods after the exposure to the stress. Therefore, they speculated that infections by pathogens could induce epigenome changes in macrophages via ATF7.

The group discovered that ATF7 binds to a group of innate immune genes and by doing so silences their expression, making the cell less responsive to infections. However, upon administration of lipopolysaccharidel (LPS), a molecule found in the outer membrane of Gram-negative bacteria, into mice, ATF7 was phosphorylated, weakening its activity so that immune-related genes were no longer silenced. Shunsuke Ishii, who led the group, says, "We were intrigued to find that even three weeks after the administration, the genes still showed increased activation. In mice, this status was shown to lead to increased resistance to Staphylococcus aureus, a Gram-positive bacteria."

According to Ishii, this finding could increase our understanding of what is known as the "hygiene hypothesis"—the concept that pathogen infection and unhygienic environment during infancy reduces the risk of allergy later in life. This hypothesis has been put forward to explain why the incidence of allergies and asthma is increasing around the world despite better hygienic conditions. "Though many researchers believe the hypothesis," says Ishii, "there is great uncertainty about how pathogen infection is memorized until adulthood. Since our research demonstrates that the pathogen-induced epigenomic changes mediated by ATF7 are maintained for a long period, this provides a plausible explanation of how the changes are induced. It also means that the genes that are affected can be used for the diagnosis of allergy."

Another possible application of these findings is for the choice of adjuvants in vaccines. Adjuvants—the name used for substances that activate innate immunity—are a necessary ingredient of efficient vaccines. The effect of adjuvant has generally been thought to end within a few days, but the present research showed that its effect can be maintained for longer periods. Says Ishii, "These results could affect the selection method of adjuvants, and we hope that they will contribute to the development of more efficient vaccines."
 
Interesting article, Eboard10. While the mechanisms discovered are interesting, it's astonishing, once again, how these so-called scientists use reduction to oversimplify everything, including how the overall immune system functions. If things were as oversimplified and mechanistic as they make out, I don't think life would have survived this long with the number of pathogens it's exposed to....
 
SeekinTruth said:
Interesting article, Eboard10. While the mechanisms discovered are interesting, it's astonishing, once again, how these so-called scientists use reduction to oversimplify everything, including how the overall immune system functions. If things were as oversimplified and mechanistic as they make out, I don't think life would have survived this long with the number of pathogens it's exposed to....

Totally agree with you, SeekinTruth. What surprised me the most about the article (for someone with no expertise in the field) was the assumption that innate immunity has no memory and that plants and insects possess only such immunity. If that were the case, then I don't see how many of the species could have survived the constant introduction of new pathogens in our ecosystem and the mutation of existing ones, considering their effect on gene expression. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would render plants almost powerless in terms of adaptability to environmental changes.

edit: spelling
 
Hey gang, so I started the protocol yesterday. I'm not treating anything terribly serious. I've had a general sort of malaise that comes and goes, random skin issues (dry skin on my elbows, mild dandruff, random bouts of acne that mostly occur on my shoulders, upper arms and back. I get joint/muscle pain that seems excessive post-workout, 3-4 days. Also my ears can leak a clear fluid occasionally and it seems correlated with ingesting butter or eggs. It's a tad embarrassing to admit, but I've had quite a few sexual partners over the years, so likelihood of cryptic infections is pretty high.

I got the doxy from Fludan as well as the metro, but currently lacking health insurance, so I'm trying to avoid a visit to the doc. Not sure I'll be able to get the Allopurinol or the antivirals without a script, so I'm just going to do it without them unless I can figure out a way to acquire them. I have all the supplements and I'm taking them as prescribed in the protocol.

Yesterday I took 200mg of the doxy on an empty stomach and half a cup of coffee, after smoking half a cigarette I realized that was a huge mistake. I puked up a lot of water, later in the day I took the other 100mg dose in a large glass of water with some potato chips and didn't have a problem. I did have some light cramping in my abdomen, but that was it.

No Herximer reactions yet, at least none that I can detect. I'll continue along and report anything noticeable.
 
Puck said:
No Herximer reactions yet, at least none that I can detect. I'll continue along and report anything noticeable.

Potato chips and coffee? Puck, you've got to take more proper care! Taking doxy with coffee is just not done. And ideally, you shouldn't eat anything with your doxy's dose.

Pay attention to Horowitz research on anti-virals. I posted about it a few pages back. If that is the case, we'll probably scratch the anti-virals from the protocol, specially if other therapies or measures prove more useful.

I highly suggest Horowitz's book "Why Can't I Get Better", to be read in conjunction with this forum thread for anyone planning to do the antibiotic protocol.
 
Gaby said:
Puck said:
No Herximer reactions yet, at least none that I can detect. I'll continue along and report anything noticeable.

Potato chips and coffee? Puck, you've got to take more proper care! Taking doxy with coffee is just not done. And ideally, you shouldn't eat anything with your doxy's dose.

Pay attention to Horowitz research on anti-virals. I posted about it a few pages back. If that is the case, we'll probably scratch the anti-virals from the protocol, specially if other therapies or measures prove more useful.

I highly suggest Horowitz's book "Why Can't I Get Better", to be read in conjunction with this forum thread for anyone planning to do the antibiotic protocol.

I agree. I think you better read the thread and the papers. You are highly at risk and you seem to be just dabbling with this and probably will do more damage to yourself than good.
 
Puck said:
Hey gang, so I started the protocol yesterday. I'm not treating anything terribly serious. I've had a general sort of malaise that comes and goes, random skin issues (dry skin on my elbows, mild dandruff, random bouts of acne that mostly occur on my shoulders, upper arms and back. I get joint/muscle pain that seems excessive post-workout, 3-4 days. Also my ears can leak a clear fluid occasionally and it seems correlated with ingesting butter or eggs. It's a tad embarrassing to admit, but I've had quite a few sexual partners over the years, so likelihood of cryptic infections is pretty high.

If you haven't read Plague Time you probably should. The activity of various critters is amazing and scary, particularly how they spread, how they morph, how they hide, and how they can sit dormant for looooooooooooooooong periods of time waiting for the right conditions to activate and/or spread.

You might also consider re-reading Secret History again ( all the way through, uninterrupted by other reading, is more effective ) and pay close attention to discussions of the bodies that make up a person. It might cause you to reconsider what you allow in and around your entire physical body.
 
Puck said:
Hey gang, so I started the protocol yesterday. I'm not treating anything terribly serious. I've had a general sort of malaise that comes and goes, random skin issues (dry skin on my elbows, mild dandruff, random bouts of acne that mostly occur on my shoulders, upper arms and back. I get joint/muscle pain that seems excessive post-workout, 3-4 days. Also my ears can leak a clear fluid occasionally and it seems correlated with ingesting butter or eggs. It's a tad embarrassing to admit, but I've had quite a few sexual partners over the years, so likelihood of cryptic infections is pretty high.

I got the doxy from Fludan as well as the metro, but currently lacking health insurance, so I'm trying to avoid a visit to the doc. Not sure I'll be able to get the Allopurinol or the antivirals without a script, so I'm just going to do it without them unless I can figure out a way to acquire them. I have all the supplements and I'm taking them as prescribed in the protocol.

Yesterday I took 200mg of the doxy on an empty stomach and half a cup of coffee, after smoking half a cigarette I realized that was a huge mistake. I puked up a lot of water, later in the day I took the other 100mg dose in a large glass of water with some potato chips and didn't have a problem. I did have some light cramping in my abdomen, but that was it.

No Herximer reactions yet, at least none that I can detect. I'll continue along and report anything noticeable.
Have you tried the full ketogenic diet? Or a long period with out coffee? Candida cleanse or heavy metal detox? Have you researched about your skin conditions and tried supplementing to alleviate them?
 
Last night, my hands started to itch, and today my palms were red as if they were burned a bit, and I had a reddish kind of rash on my hands. I also have these red itchy spots on my legs, arms, back, belly, around my eyes, and my feet! It looks like it came from the little sun exposure I had, possibly from my way to work. :-[ Even though I had everything covered, except for my face and my hands, I'm surprised that my whole body seems to be having this reaction. Then again, clothing can't provide full protection. I've been putting aloe vera on the spots which temporarily relieves it, and I just repeat the process and things are looking a bit better now. I've also taken a short cold shower, and try to keep those areas as cool as possible, which has helped as well. I'll be using some natural sunscreen tomorrow (hopefully it'll help a bit) when I go to work and make sure to stay in the shades as much as possible.

Also, I checked my weight and since I started I've lost about 4 kilos, the weight I've possibly gained from inflammation seems to be disappearing!
 
SeekinTruth said:
Yes, factory farming definitely played a big part in the emergence of the resistance crisis, for sure. So you found out about Buhner having no problems with vaccines in the Herbal Antivirals book? (By the way the link is not active to that book - it doesn't go anywhere). Because I haven't run into anything about vaccines being OK yet in Herbal Antibiotics. If anything, vaccines have caused a much bigger health catastrophe in the last few decades than antibiotic misuse. I might want to read Herbal Antivirals too. Is it worth the read/is it as good as Herbal Antibiotics?

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, the impression of Buhner's okayishness with vaccines comes from reading Herbal Antivirals. He doesn't make any statements about them, but just mentions them as if they were part of accepted procedures. That book is quite similar by it's structure as Herbal Antibiotics. I got swamped with other work, so I haven't got to read the second half of it. But based on what I've read so far, it feels like a good book to have with you when the s**t hits the fan (when there's no pharmaceuticals to be bought). I'm looking forward of reading (in both books) the sections of preparing your own tinctures.

Actually, I kind'a made my first "tincture". I made some juice from a big ginger root and put it in small flasks. I gave one flask to my wife just as she was leaving on a trip and having flu symptoms. We'll see if it has any effect. ;)
 
Gaby said:
Puck said:
No Herximer reactions yet, at least none that I can detect. I'll continue along and report anything noticeable.

Potato chips and coffee? Puck, you've got to take more proper care! Taking doxy with coffee is just not done. And ideally, you shouldn't eat anything with your doxy's dose.

Pay attention to Horowitz research on anti-virals. I posted about it a few pages back. If that is the case, we'll probably scratch the anti-virals from the protocol, specially if other therapies or measures prove more useful.

I highly suggest Horowitz's book "Why Can't I Get Better", to be read in conjunction with this forum thread for anyone planning to do the antibiotic protocol.

Yeah, learned that the hard way. I haven't read the last 10 pages or so yet, so I'll go through them tonight and get caught up. Read a bunch of the papers, reading Plague Time and Infection Connection concurrently. I'll put Horowitz's book on the list.

lainey said:
Have you tried the full ketogenic diet? Or a long period with out coffee? Candida cleanse or heavy metal detox? Have you researched about your skin conditions and tried supplementing to alleviate them?

I went full keto for 2-3 months awhile back, but it didn't sit right. I had more lethargy issues and runny stools. I kept at it but about 9 weeks into it I went back to adding in carbs slowly and my body's performance enhanced dramatically. Now I'm eating about 70-100g's of carbs a day and that seems to fit the best. I have not done a candida cleanse since 2009ish, but figured my relatively low-carb diet would keep that at bay. I did some heavy metal chelation therapy when I first got my FIR sauna. It's all helped, and generally my health and energy levels have improved over time. I never did supplements specific for skin conditions because they're relatively minor and more of an annoyance than anything else.

I only started drinking coffee about 5 months back, prior to that I would get intense belching/gas, but that seems to have faded. Interestingly, my cat allergy has also vanished.

Laura said:
I agree. I think you better read the thread and the papers. You are highly at risk and you seem to be just dabbling with this and probably will do more damage to yourself than good.

Oh I don't mean to dabble. I'll go through the thread again after I get all caught up.
 
Puck said:
lainey said:
Have you tried the full ketogenic diet? Or a long period with out coffee? Candida cleanse or heavy metal detox? Have you researched about your skin conditions and tried supplementing to alleviate them?

I went full keto for 2-3 months awhile back, but it didn't sit right. I had more lethargy issues and runny stools. I kept at it but about 9 weeks into it I went back to adding in carbs slowly and my body's performance enhanced dramatically. Now I'm eating about 70-100g's of carbs a day and that seems to fit the best. I have not done a candida cleanse since 2009ish, but figured my relatively low-carb diet would keep that at bay. I did some heavy metal chelation therapy when I first got my FIR sauna. It's all helped, and generally my health and energy levels have improved over time. I never did supplements specific for skin conditions because they're relatively minor and more of an annoyance than anything else.

I only started drinking coffee about 5 months back, prior to that I would get intense belching/gas, but that seems to have faded. Interestingly, my cat allergy has also vanished.
Ok but you know you don't have to live with a mild annoyance? It strikes me as strange that you would be happy to leave a mild skin condition yet want to blast internal parasites with strong drugs for "general malaise" how do you know the cause of the rashes aren't also the cause of the malaise and you could fix yourself up and feel great without undergoing this intense protocol? I'm not a doctor so I don't know what could be the cause of your rash but I'm thinking maybe another candida cleanse might help.
Did you try digestive enzymes on keto or lowering your fat intake?
 
Continuing with a review of Horowitz's book "Why Can't I Get Better", the next next 100 pages or so.

- Mercury exposure produces similar symptoms such as fatigue, joint pains, muscle pains, tingling and numbness, memory and concentration problems, and emotional problems.

- Heavy metal burden refers to exposure to metallic elements whose specific gravity is about 5 or greater, especially those that are poisonous: mercury, lead, arsenic, cadmium, nickel, aluminum.

- Blood analysis for mercury and other heavy metals are not reliable, unless there has been a recent acute exposure. Hair analysis shows a certain amount but nowhere near the more representative results of a DMSA urine challenge test.

- Urine tests with a DMSA challenge test reflects the heavy metals stored in the tissues.

- Heavy metal toxicity may explain chronic symptoms, especially those suffering from chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia symptoms, neuropathy, cognitive difficulties, tinnitus, and neuropsychiatric problems.

- Mercury may act as an hapten on the outside of the cell causing autoimmune reactions.

- Environmental toxins (xenoestrogens, pesticides, heavy metals, ETC) are very important because their effects can mimic just about every medical condition found in the doctor's office. They can cause exactly the same symptoms seen in persistent Lyme disease and co-infections.

- Mold exposure at home (such as Stachybotrys) is often a silent factor that can cause a lot of physical and neurological symptoms.

- Some toxins such as quinolinic acid are produced internally in the body and can cause devastating neurological effects. Quinolinic acid is a neurotoxic metabolite of certain biochemical pathways (i.e. nitric oxide pathway) which is produced in the brain by activated microglia and macrophages. It can be a result of co-infections and heavy metal toxicity and it is involved in neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's, MS, Alzheimer's, Lou Gehrig's, Lyme's disease, etc. This toxin plays a key role in mood disorders and cognitive issues in Lyme patients and other co-infections. It could explain why patients persist with symptoms despite adequate antibiotic therapy. To suppress this neurotoxin, curcumin, green tea extracts and anti-inflammatories are necessary.

- Mercury can penetrate into the nerves and bind to acetylcholine receptors in the brain, resulting in neurological dysfunction. In the central nervous system, it can cause multiple sclerosis like syndromes, ADHD, etc.

- Lead can cause fatigue, impaired concentration, short-term memory problems, GI symptoms, insomnia, anxiety, depression, irritability, peripheral nerve dysfunction. Lead is stored in bones so it can be dumped into the blood as men and women develop age-related osteopenia. It can raise blood pressure.

- Arsenic can cause paresthesias and peripheral neuropathy among others.

- Cadmium is linked to CFS, toxic brain syndrome, emphysema, osteopenia, prostate cancer, and renal dysfunction. It competes with zinc binding sites.

- Aluminum is a potent neurotoxin which has been associated with abnormal speech, ALS, Parkinson's, etc.

- Zinc deficiency leaves you susceptible to a variety of pathogens. It impairs immune function.

- Heavy metal detox possibilities: DMSA, cuprimine, EDTA.

- Dr. Sherry Rogers suggests DMSA three days on, 11 days off, very similar to our forum protocol from Sidney Baker.

- Lyme disease patients do tend to have severe Herx reactions with DMSA though. NAC and alpha lipoic acid are needed to help chelate and palliate Herx reactions. Low doses of DMSA (like our forum protocol, designed originally for children by the Autism Research Institute) are relatively well tolerated and could easily be mixed with EDTA suppositories if a high lead level is also present. Horowitz doesn't like oral EDTA because it doesn't get absorbed very well. Neither DMSA is very well absorbed. But it has to be kept in mind that his patients are VERY sick and he needs results "fast", and these are patients who never tried detox protocols before.

- From his clinical practice, heavy metal chelation improved the symptoms of 20% of his resistant Lyme-MSIDS patients, including fatigue, joint pain and neurocognitive function.

- Oral DMSA will remove mercury, lead, cadmium, arsenic and other heavy metals. Oral and IV DMPS is more specific for mercury and rectal and IV EDTA more specific for lead. These all exist in oral forms. Cuprimine can be used in those allergic to DMSA.

- In his experience, oral DMSA with EDTA suppositories (detoxamine) if high leads are present will work well in his patients with heavy metal burden. DMSA is initially started in low doses to test for tolerance (100mg every third night), as some patients get severe Herx reactions.

- Other effective protocols, as mentioned above: DMSA 3 days on, 11 days off, using NAC, ALA and supplementing minerals and magnesium on the days off.

- If high levels of aluminum are present, adding malic acid is necessary because aluminum does not bind well to DMSA.

- Mercury increases susceptibility to chronic infections.

- MSIDS patients with heavy metals are deficient in one or more minerals such as iodine, magnesium or zinc.

- Minerals are essential for detox reactions. Undetoxed metabolites may accumulate, causing toxic brain symptoms.

- Cognitive dysfunction in chronic infections may be caused by mercury toxicity, active infections on the brain, neurotoxins such as quinolinic acid, a build up of chloral hydrate (due to a lack of zinc deficiency), etc.

- Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) exacerbates symptoms of psoriasis, don't use it if you have psoriasis.

- Glutathione supports detox through the phase II conjugation pathway of the liver. Glutathione takes fat soluble toxins which are not easily eliminated and helps make them water soluble so they can be removed from the body. It also helps to make hormones, new genetic material, detox enzymes, it modulates the immune system, etc. It helps people detoxify and it diminishes Herx reactions and its concurrent cytokine storm. Many antibiotics also "slow down' the liver's detox pathways, so susceptible patients might need extra support in the form of glutathione precursors such as NAC, ALA, glycline. Many people report improvement in fatigue, pain, mood swings, headaches, balance, dizziness, speech problems and cognitive function within 30 min of glutathione administration. Keep this in mind when having severe Herx reactions! I tripled my dose of NAC and ALA and saw a clear benefit. Some of us have very sluggish livers!

- Horowitz reports: "I have found that for treatment-resistant patients with symptoms unresponsive to antibiotics and other interventions, we clearly see marked clinical improvement when we enhance their detoxification pathways using glutathione. That is why we recommend a three step process of detoxification, chelation, and nutritional supplementation to all patients who come to our office."

- Important and useful measures. FIR sauna, probiotics, enough hydration, NAC, ALA.

- Patients may have difficulty tolerating new chemicals (i.e. pesticides) when they are on several different medications (i.e. antibiotics).

- Magnesium deficiency may result from an excess exposure to environmental toxins. Mg is related to 300 or so chemical detox pathways and some symptoms may get reversed just by restoring magnesium.

- Many toxic chemicals are fat soluble, so they have a direct pathway to the brain, which is comprised of 60% fat. These then disturb the brain chemistry, causing a host of "unexplained" neurological symptoms. When the detox pathways are overloaded, or when there are nutritional deficiencies affecting the phase I and II liver detoxification pathways, these chemicals back up, producing neurotoxic metabolites. This translates into brain fog, dizziness, headaches, slurred speech, exhaustion, mood swings. Chronic infections further compound this situation.

- To be continued.
 
Oxajil said:
Also, I checked my weight and since I started I've lost about 4 kilos, the weight I've possibly gained from inflammation seems to be disappearing!

Sounds good!

And yeah, it seems sun exposure do cause a lot of skin flare ups when taking antibiotics such as doxy.
 
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