AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

[shijing]

Now, here’s some information about the works done at Hansa Centre on Lyme disease and other ailments:

Sounds more like a promo job. I'd like to hear from REAL patients. Is there a discussion forum somewhere online talking about treatments?

I unfortunately haven't been able to find more than Shared Joy posted in the way of discussion forums, but I did have this book on hand and finally had a chance to begin reading it last week (I'm about halfway through it at present). I agree that the amount of product promotion is a bit of a turn-off, but several parts of the book are good in terms of theory, regardless of whether one were to try the recommended products or not. I'd been waiting to comment on this until I'd had a chance to read at least part of the book.

For example, there is a short part in the beginning (p. 16-17) where Jernigan discusses using fractionated colostrums as immune enhancers, because whole colostrums are at risk of being contaminated with Lyme spirochetes from infected cows. Chapter 3 is entitled "'Fiber Optic' Communications of Microbes", and may present a way to understand how parasites act as receivers in the way that the Cs described a few sessions ago. I just finished a section on core body temperature, and how parasites promote and thrive in a slightly lower than average core temperature because this leads to a slower electrical oscillatory rate in cells which in turn leads to increased viscosity of bodily fluids; this then retards the elimination of intercellular toxins, and can result in a variety of symptoms including the "trigger points" of fibromyalgia, edema, and hormone disruption. It seems to be in line with the research on cold thermogenesis, one of the goals of which is to increase core body temperature.

And speaking of which, I also enjoyed listening to yesterday's interview with Jack Kruse on the Health and Wellness show -- I spent a couple of weeks last month listening to several of his interviews and plan to begin reading his book as soon as I'm done with Jernigan's. Dietrich Klinghardt mentioned in one of his interviews that there has been a basic dichotomy between the West and Russia in treating chronic disease, with the West following a chemistry-based approach and the Russians following a physics-based approach (Klinghardt tries to combine them, but feels that the latter is ultimately superior). Richard Horowitz has done the best research that I've seen so far using the Western model.

On the other hand, Jernigan and Kruse seem to fall in line more with the Russian approach -- they are both influenced by people like Robert Becker, Gerald Pollack and Mae-Wan Ho, who all work in their respective ways on the body as an electrically-driven crystalline matrix that is responsive to variations in energy frequency. This approach focuses less on killing parasites and more on restoring the integrity of the body so that it's able to deal with parasites in the natural way that it's designed to do. Jernigan goes so far as to suggest that Herxheimer reactions are a sign of poor elimination pathway drainage, poor organ support, and ultimately poor treatment.

I just wanted to post some preliminary thoughts on this, since both Jernigan and Kruse have come up recently on the forum.

 

[Gaby]

Just watched this documentary on Lyme's disease. It was jaw dropping!

https://youtu.be/RWFFiIZgr6U

_http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/under-our-skin/

In the 1970s, a mysterious and deadly illness began infecting children in a small town in Connecticut. Today it's a global epidemic.

A real-life thriller, this shocking festival hit exposes the controversy surrounding chronic Lyme disease. Following the stories of individuals fighting for their lives, director Andy Abrahams Wilson reveals with beauty and horror a natural world out of balance and a human nature all too willing to put profits before patients.

The film follows six individuals including major league ball player Ben Petrick who report chronic symptoms, which they attribute to persistent Lyme infection. The majority of the film is devoted to the storyline of these patients and their reported recovery.

The film also focuses on state medical board investigations of Joseph Jemsek and Ray Jones, two physicians who prescribe long-term antibiotics for "chronic" Lyme disease.

More info at:

Chronic Lyme Disease: A silent epidemic the government chooses to ignore
http://www.sott.net/article/301870-Chronic-Lyme-Disease-A-silent-epidemic-the-government-chooses-to-ignore

 

[riclapaz]

Yes, for me they are also quite strong, I'm about 15 cycles of Metronidazole, and yet I still herx reactions, not as strong, but much tiredness and slight nausea.

How about taking a break until you can address your gut balance. You can always repeat a test cycle down the road.

Thanks for your advice Gaby, i forgot mention that these 15 cycles, are from the end of May, have not been followed, I had break of one or two months before starting this protocol with doxy, and since then I have been taking probiotics daily

I suspect that my probiotics are not as good, I'm taking two different brands, in addition to the recommended lactobacillus rhamnosus gg, could you please say your brand is probiotic?

Unfortunately that is often the case. My brand is from a Spanish company (Arkopharma), so it might no be available abroad. It has the following characteristics:

50.000 million active strains in 10 grams (l. paracasei, l. plantarum, l. rhamnosus, l. acidophilus). It is 10 grams each day for 7 days. In addition to that, I took megalevura, also from a Spanish company. It contains: Saccharomyces boulardii, lactobacillus rhamnosus gg and bifidobacterium bifidus. It is like 2-5 grams each dose for 10 days.

Worked like a charm!!

I had to jump to take zythromax due to an infection in the urinary tract, the effect they have more had are gastrointestinal, diarrhea, I've been taking 250 mg, twice daily, while waiting for other probiotics, the bacteria that aid in diarrhea.

It sounds to me like the diarrhea is from the metronidazol. I think you took too many cycles without appropriate probiotics. Also, nystatin and/or other anti-fungals are really necessary when you take metronidazol so regularly.

And unfortunately, zythromax is NOT for urinary tract infections. Macrolides are great for atypical bacteria such as mycoplasma pneumoniae. Urinary tract infections are usually caused by E.Coli and other anaerobes from the gut.

Typically fosfomicin, D-mannose (a type of sugar) or nitrofurantoin and maybe amoxicillin is useful for urinary tract infections.

You safe macrolide antibiotics such as zythromax for upper respiratory tract infections and/or as an anti-cell wall drug down the road in the protocol.

Try in your local pharmacy for a high quality probiotic, or look in the web for the following characteristics suggested by Horowitz:

-Over 200 billion colony forming units from acidophilus.
- Saccharomyces boulardii.

He reminds people that Saccharomyces boulardii, lactobacillus rhamnosus gg and probiotic mixtures decreases incidence of antibiotic diarrhea. Only Saccharomyces boulardii is effective against Clostridium difficile diarrhea.

Horowitz recommends the following brands, in case you can buy them on the web:

Ultra Flora, Saccharomyces boulardii (often available in local pharmacies), probiomax, therelac.

Alternatively, go to your local pharmacy and find out about probiotics for antibiotic related diarrhea and/or traveler's diarrhea. They should have Saccharomyces boulardii.

Do address the diarrhea. Some nystatin will be helpful too.

Again thank Gaby, if I had read about Zithromax for pneumonia infections, how strange is that if relief, or possibly help with the infection in the orinarias roads, also have taken Nystatin, since I started the protocol with doxy at intervals, D-mannose tambie was taking.
I will try to find a local probiotic, however it is quite frustrating and desperate, locally I can not find anything, I sometimes feel that the current carries me, but I try to swim against, online ordering, it takes about two months to arrive but I will do my best to find some high quality probiotic, thanks.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Just wanted to post some thoughts and updates. I finally was able to sit down with my mother and have her take the Horowitz Lyme-MSIDS Questionnaire several days ago. She got a 107 - and that's, in my opinion, conservative because some of the symptoms come and go with a month or more in between, so she gave some a lower score (mild, moderate, severe), I think. I had posted in the questionnaire thread an estimate for her by me. But I finally got her to sit down and give a more accurate account as I don't know how severe or mild each symptom is as accurately as she does.

I've also hit a wall myself in the last few months. I have pretty serious insomnia/sleep disturbances. And I'm quite fatigued because of it. I also have quite a few of the symptoms of Lyme and coinfections, but not as severe as my mom.

After reading Healing Lyme Coinfections: Complementary and Holistic Treatments for Bartonella and Mycoplasma, twice, and taking better notes on the second read, I've ordered a bunch of herbal tinctures and supplements because my mom has about 90% to 95% of the symptoms for both bartonella and mycoplasma, and I have about 30% to 40%. Problem is that I've been ordering from iherb and they use Air Mail service of USPS (instead of International Priority), which has an $80 limit per package (and also a 4 pound limit for weight).

I'd been ordering supplements from iherb for a few months instead of Swanson's because Swanson began international shipments being only available via DHL several months ago. I've had problems before with anything that is not USPS which generally ends up at customs even if the threshold to do so is avoided. And it's a real pain in the neck bureaucratic runaround and waste of time and energy for each package, plus a 32% customs charge on the total invoice including shipping if it does hit the customs law threshold.

So, I've had to order these multiple orders, like six in a month from iherb. But the customs law keeps changing, generally being relaxed, but still quite restrictive. So the latest change is that the same person can have up to $400 of packages per month and I'm probably going to be over that when all the recent orders come in, as they were made just over a few days. I'm thinking of alternating the signature and passport number between me and my brother for the packages to avoid customs issues. Plus to get all or most of the protocol supplements and herbs, it's going to take quite some time this way. Will have to see how it works out. I'm going to look into other websites to order from that's in the book's sources too when I have some time, so I might be able to get some stuff iherb doesn't have and also get more/bigger orders if they can ship USPS International Priority.

So just wanted to update about these stealth infections issues in my family. My mother is in pretty bad shape. She also has insomnia - a common symptom of Lyme and coinfections - and sometimes alternates with very deep sleep for 9 or 10 hours. She just turned 72 years old, and I'll be 49 in February. I'll update as needed.

 

[Keit]

That is a good option. Typically, these upper respiratory tract infections are addressed with two macrolides in 2-3 weeks of treatment. An example would be two cycles of zythromax: 500mg in 3-5 days the first and second week, and claritromycin the second and third week. There can be several combinations of these macrolides, you could use what is available to you. Roxythromicin might actually work better!

The doxy probably is killing other stuff, so some Herx reactions might be overlapping here.

Thank you very much for your help! Yesterday, after I started taking Roxy, I had a fever that broke at night, and now continues as low grade fever. I still have a constant almost dry cough, but it does feel like the disease progresses somewhere. In any case, I don't want to take more space in this thread or your time. I think it should be ok eventually. Thank you again for the help!

 

[LQB]

I've also hit a wall myself in the last few months. I have pretty serious insomnia/sleep disturbances. And I'm quite fatigued because of it. I also have quite a few of the symptoms of Lyme and coinfections, but not as severe as my mom.

ST - my own sleep has been less continuous and restful over the last month or so. I listened to part of the Sott H&W interview with Jack Kruse and was surprised to hear him talk so strongly about not blocking UV (with sunglasses) - I (almost always) use sunglasses when outdoors. So, the last two days I have made sure to spend some outdoors time without sunglasses. The following two nights have resulted in much better, continuous 8-hr sleeps. Maybe the strong UV performs a reset function of some kind. Or this could just be a coincidence - but I'm going to stay with it and see. FWIW

 

[Laura]

It seems, according to this book: Beyond Lyme Disease: Healing the Underlying Causes of Chronic Illness in People with Borreliosis and Co-Infections, that the main reason for the extraordinary fatigue during the protocol is a pre-existing adrenal fatigue condition. So, the key seems to be to definitely support the adrenals throughout that protocol because I don't think it is a good idea to leave off killing the cyst forms until taking the metro no longer evokes a reaction. It was about round 16 or so when I stopped having reactions.

So, I would suggest that those people who think about doing the protocol - or something like the protocol - should work on the adrenal fatigue issue first. If you've already started and it is proving to be a problem, then you need to definitely kick in some support for the adrenals, as much as you can without countering the protocol.

 

[Gaby]

So, I would suggest that those people who think about doing the protocol - or something like the protocol - should work on the adrenal fatigue issue first. If you've already started and it is proving to be a problem, then you need to definitely kick in some support for the adrenals, as much as you can without countering the protocol.

Adrenal fatigue does a ring a bell for a lot of people. During my first few cycles with metro, I supported with adaptogens and phosphatidylserine at night to help me sleep when I'm too energized late at night.

I'll add a low dose hydrocortisone to see if it helps my next few cycles of metro. That will give me courage (and adrenal support!) to carry on.

 

[Pierre]

the key seems to be to definitely support the adrenals throughout that protocol

For the ones interested in knowing more about adrenal fatigue and how to cure it, there is a dedicated thread here.

 

[riclapaz]

It seems, according to this book: Beyond Lyme Disease: Healing the Underlying Causes of Chronic Illness in People with Borreliosis and Co-Infections, that the main reason for the extraordinary fatigue during the protocol is a pre-existing adrenal fatigue condition. So, the key seems to be to definitely support the adrenals throughout that protocol because I don't think it is a good idea to leave off killing the cyst forms until taking the metro no longer evokes a reaction. It was about round 16 or so when I stopped having reactions.

So, I would suggest that those people who think about doing the protocol - or something like the protocol - should work on the adrenal fatigue issue first. If you've already started and it is proving to be a problem, then you need to definitely kick in some support for the adrenals, as much as you can without countering the protocol.

Thanks Laura for your help and recommendation.

the key seems to be to definitely support the adrenals throughout that protocol

For the ones interested in knowing more about adrenal fatigue and how to cure it, there is a dedicated thread here.

Thanks Pierre, I am fully in this thread and taking notes.

 

[SeekinTruth]

I've also hit a wall myself in the last few months. I have pretty serious insomnia/sleep disturbances. And I'm quite fatigued because of it. I also have quite a few of the symptoms of Lyme and coinfections, but not as severe as my mom.

ST - my own sleep has been less continuous and restful over the last month or so. I listened to part of the Sott H&W interview with Jack Kruse and was surprised to hear him talk so strongly about not blocking UV (with sunglasses) - I (almost always) use sunglasses when outdoors. So, the last two days I have made sure to spend some outdoors time without sunglasses. The following two nights have resulted in much better, continuous 8-hr sleeps. Maybe the strong UV performs a reset function of some kind. Or this could just be a coincidence - but I'm going to stay with it and see. FWIW

Thanks for the tip LQB. I almost never wear sunglasses - I actually like to get plenty of sun in general whenever I can. But I haven't been getting that much lately because the weather turned chilly and it's been cloudy a lot in the last several weeks (with really weird electrical phenomena - some of the most intense lightning and thunder at nights). So it's a good reminder to get out and get some sun now, for the vitamin D too, as the sun is out. By the way, I'm going to catch that SOTT H&W show with Kruse as soon as I can.

It seems, according to this book: Beyond Lyme Disease: Healing the Underlying Causes of Chronic Illness in People with Borreliosis and Co-Infections, that the main reason for the extraordinary fatigue during the protocol is a pre-existing adrenal fatigue condition. So, the key seems to be to definitely support the adrenals throughout that protocol because I don't think it is a good idea to leave off killing the cyst forms until taking the metro no longer evokes a reaction. It was about round 16 or so when I stopped having reactions.

So, I would suggest that those people who think about doing the protocol - or something like the protocol - should work on the adrenal fatigue issue first. If you've already started and it is proving to be a problem, then you need to definitely kick in some support for the adrenals, as much as you can without countering the protocol.

Yeah, from all the reading I've done, it's really important to support the systems most negatively impacted - not just adrenal burnout, but there's a lot of technical details about bartonella and mycoplasma and what they do in the body in the book I mentioned. So supporting all the systems that get damaged is the key to recovery and improving quality of life, it seems. Also, my experiment for myself and my mom is going to be based on such support of immune, nervous, lymphatic, mucous, etc. systems because the tests to verify what exact infections one has are supposed to be notoriously unreliable for false negatives - up to 60% false negatives, in fact. So I figure to strengthen and support all the major systems in the body will be a good thing whatever infections one might have, while tackling the infections with systemic antimicrobials. Plus if my mother has to go through major herx reactions, it's gonna get real ugly for her to be able to continue with the treatment protocols (as her symptoms are pretty brutal already a lot of the time), so the better the major systems can be functioning, the easier she'll be able to cope....

 

[JEEP]

Just read the following article & watched the 45 1/2 min youtube video from the article:

_http://www.wakingtimes.com/2015/10/16/mother-cures-over-100-cases-of-autism-with-this-treatment-but-doctors-wont-offer-it/

Kerri Rivera at AutismOne 2015 - The Facts About CD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWrCEq_8CWY

The video especially makes a compelling case for the safety & effective healing in using Chlorine Dioxide w/ scientific study citations.

From the article:

Rivera developed the Chlorine Dioxide (CD) autism treatment protocol that addresses the presence of pathogens, such as fungi, bacteria, heavy metals, parasites, candida, etc., found in almost every child with autism. She believes that CD treatment effectively kills off these pathogens that are causing inflammation and autoimmune response, which in turn manifest themselves into a complex of symptoms, which we call autism, that produce near complete impairment of social interactions.

At 14:17 min of the video, biofilm removal by CD is cited; @ 16:10 min:

The European Commission designates Sodium Chlorite as a medicinal product for ALS.

I found that quite shocking as my understanding is Sodium Chlorite is what MMS is composed of > SC plus water.

Rivera has developed a 7-step protocol (@ 29:15 min) and as a result, "181 people have lost the autism diagnosis in the past 4.5 years with CD/Parasite Protocol".

The last step is gcmaf/MAF. When considering ALL the information contained in this video, along w/ the gcmaf/MAF component, I have to wonder if there is some connection to the continuing mysterious deaths of holistic doctors, the last one while vacationing in Hawaii. It's effectiveness re viruses & possibly parasites might be something that the PTB doesn't want promoted - and certainly not at affordable cost.

Of course, it's just one video & it would seem that more definitive studies/evidence are necessary, although anecdotal evidence should strongly factor in. But, it does appear that CD is a very viable treatment for a whole range of significant health challenges that most of the population is being afflicted. I'd be interested in Gaby's take on this video presentation.

p.s. I did note previous references on the forum re Kerri Rivera & MMS/Humble. In the video, Kerri makes a point that 'no church' is a part of her protocol promotion & the video also covers the bleach aspect & why CD is NOT bleach.

 

[Shared Joy]

the key seems to be to definitely support the adrenals throughout that protocol

For the ones interested in knowing more about adrenal fatigue and how to cure it, there is a dedicated thread here.

Hi,
I just watched this video of dr. R Horowitz, who tried to extend the action range of his protocol, adding some herbs, addressing adrenal fatigue, heavy metal detox .

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Nt0VD28fk

It's quite an info loaded presentation, I had some problems just organizing it, and some of the slides aren't very well visible due to color. But other than that it is useful to take notice of his findings, as he admitted that many of the clients relapsed after a lengthy treatment with antibiotics.

Therefore he presents the complementary medicine protocol in the beginning

minute 12 / present autism and the hiding places of microbes where antibiotics cannot penetrate

minute 16 / a summary of the chronic infections and their neurobiological effects.

minute 19 / starts to present the various toxins

minute 25.33 / toxic metals, effects, detox methods, also provides a simple chelation protocol with DMSA

minute 37 / hormonal problems, adrenal fatigue, controls, research, treatment protocols,
minute 41/ two case presentation worth listening to

minute 46 / detailed presentation of the Cowden protocol (uses herbs) and several trials he made, combining it with antibiotic treatment.

Well, it is worth listening to it, according to my opinion

Joy

 

[Altair]

I have a short question (sorry if it's offtopic). I had root end surgery today and the doctor prescribed me Clindamycin 600 mg for 2 weeks. I don't have any autoimmune disorders and currently don't plan to go on the protocol. Does it make sense to take this antibiotic or colloidal silver and oregano oil will be enough to prevent possible infection?

 

[Gaby]

I have a short question (sorry if it's offtopic). I had root end surgery today and the doctor prescribed me Clindamycin 600 mg for 2 weeks. I don't have any autoimmune disorders and currently don't plan to go on the protocol. Does it make sense to take this antibiotic or colloidal silver and oregano oil will be enough to prevent possible infection?

The later ones could well be enough. Some vitamin C will be helpful too. I think it is a little bit over the top to prevent an infection with clindamycin. I would file the antibiotic though, keep it in stock and/or take it at the first sign of infection.

My 2 cents.