AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

[SMM]

Can't stress enough the benefits of arginine and glycine/NAC along with Vitamin C and B complex. They really kept me going.

Thank you for the update and the experience-based tips

Indeed, thanks for the update Laura.

It is good to hear you have finished the protocol as well as getting relief from the flashes from taking arginine, glycine/NAC, and the benefits in addition to vitamin C and vitamin B complex.

It would not be easy to find a doctor who approves of or is even aware of the antibiotics protocols so that the possibility herbal alternatives exists is something.

 

[Laura]

I read a reference to this book in another book so got and read through it quickly today:

5 Steps to Restoring Health Protocol: Helping those who haven't been helped with Lyme Disease, Thyroid Problems, Adrenal Fatigue, Heavy Metal Toxicity, Digestive Issues, and More! By Jay Davidson.

This book packs a LOT of stuff in there and most of it what we have learned. Only a couple of warnings: his take on milk/casein is not very educated and he's a bit of a fundie so that influences him a bit, especially on the topic of pork. However, some of the things he says in there should be read by everyone before they do anything.

 

[RGG]

It should be mentioned that any of you who are able can contact Gaby privately via her website for a consultation and individual guidance through the protocol. You will see that her fees for forum members are very minimal as she considers this as part of her service to others. She can also guide you as to where and how to obtain the needed meds once you have decided on the protocol you wish to follow.

http://health-matrix.net/

Thank you for posting this!

 

[nicklebleu]

I ordered a 6-month course of oral MAF from Saisei-Mirai clinic in Japan, because I was unwilling to go on the hard-core antibiotic protocol. Cost wasn't really a factor in the decision, as it would be similar to the protocol over the whole period.

I take one capsule orally in the morning and one capsule sublingually in the evening.

My experience so far (two weeks) has been:

The first 3 days I had some reaction that could be interpreted as Herx reaction - or not: Some muscle pain and head aches and generally feeling unwell. After three days this mostly went away. But some old joint pain in my fingers have flared up again and are still present. Funny enough the sublingual dose seems to produce a stronger reaction than the oral dose.

Apart from that I take vitamin D/ K and C and some cistus incanus extract to disrupt biofilms and have continued with turps (1 teaspoon twice weekly on a sugar cube). Will try to source some NAC, but haven't been able to do so due to my itinerant life.

Will report as I progress further and/or something new happens.

 

[987baz]

Will try to source some NAC, but haven't been able to do so due to my itinerant life.

This is the one I get from my naturopath locally, I'm pretty sure the good life health shops stock this too Nick for when you're up in Perth. _http://oxymin.com.au/54-n-acetyl-cysteine.html

 

[nicklebleu]

Will try to source some NAC, but haven't been able to do so due to my itinerant life.

This is the one I get from my naturopath locally, I'm pretty sure the good life health shops stock this too Nick for when you're up in Perth. _http://oxymin.com.au/54-n-acetyl-cysteine.html

Good to know - thanks, Baz!

 

[Keit]

I would like to ask for an advice. Almost a month ago I got sick and it progressed into bronchitis. I treated it for 5 days with Roxithromycin (a macrolide) and the acute symptoms disappeared, but lingering couch, phlegm and slight nasal congestion remained. So it made me think about mycoplasma.

Now, I planned on doing the protocol at some point, but thought to do it when won't have to be active everyday. But now it seems that perhaps I better deal with this lingering infection. So the question is, do you think that 200mg+100 on the first day, and then 100mg+100 on the next days is good enough? And for how long? Would 14 days be enough, or if I am doing it already, better do it for much longer?

I don't want to add more heavy duty antibiotics (like metro) because I need my brain in the working condition, but also don't want to create the situation when the critters will become resistant if I'll do the treatment incorrectly.

Beside that, 5 days ago started taking adrenal optimizer (my cortisol levels are below the norm) and NAC+ALA twice a day. Thank you in advance.

 

[nicklebleu]

I would like to ask for an advice. Almost a month ago I got sick and it progressed into bronchitis. I treated it for 5 days with Roxithromycin (a macrolide) and the acute symptoms disappeared, but lingering couch, phlegm and slight nasal congestion remained. So it made me think about mycoplasma.

Now, I planned on doing the protocol at some point, but thought to do it when won't have to be active everyday. But now it seems that perhaps I better deal with this lingering infection. So the question is, do you think that 200mg+100 on the first day, and then 100mg+100 on the next days is good enough? And for how long? Would 14 days be enough, or if I am doing it already, better do it for much longer?

I don't want to add more heavy duty antibiotics (like metro) because I need my brain in the working condition, but also don't want to create the situation when the critters will become resistant if I'll do the treatment incorrectly.

Beside that, 5 days ago started taking adrenal optimizer (my cortisol levels are below the norm) and NAC+ALA twice a day. Thank you in advance.

Keit, that's a hard one!

I think you may need to distinguish between "the protocol" and standard antibiotic treatment. If you are thinking about "the protocol" then it's six months or nothing. The aim is to eradicate hidden, deep-seated and hard to treat bugs most of us are infected with, but which SEEMINGLY don't affect everyone to the same degree.

Then there is standard antibiotic treatment, which eradicates most or at least many acute infections. By the sound of it yours could be a more acute thing, but that's hard to say, because it could be a reinfection of something more chronic. I think that depends how otherwise your overall health is, and why you thought it would be a good idea for you to go onto the "protocol" in the first place, as you said you were planning to do in the future.

So if I were you, I would probably do a 14-day course, and doxy seems a reasonable choice. You can then monitor your reaction and decide upon how you fare, whether to end after 14 days or expand into the full-blown protocol.

Anyway, that's my take on that - others may have a different view.

 

[Keit]

Keit, that's a hard one!

I think you may need to distinguish between "the protocol" and standard antibiotic treatment. If you are thinking about "the protocol" then it's six months or nothing. The aim is to eradicate hidden, deep-seated and hard to treat bugs most of us are infected with, but which SEEMINGLY don't affect everyone to the same degree.

Then there is standard antibiotic treatment, which eradicates most or at least many acute infections. By the sound of it yours could be a more acute thing, but that's hard to say, because it could be a reinfection of something more chronic. I think that depends how otherwise your overall health is, and why you thought it would be a good idea for you to go onto the "protocol" in the first place, as you said you were planning to do in the future.

Well, I was planning on doing it at some point in the future in order to do deep cleaning of more hidden stuff, and also because in the past I tested positive for the antibodies of Toxoplasma, so some antiparasitic protocol is also indicated (beside the herbal stuff that already did couple of times). I am sure there are other critters too. Also, for the past 4 years I've been having recurring and lingering respiratory infections, even was once for two weeks in the hospital with pneumonia. So yeah, it could have been an acute thing that triggered a chronic problem, because in my case simple cold usually transforms into bronchitis.

So if I were you, I would probably do a 14-day course, and doxy seems a reasonable choice. You can then monitor your reaction and decide upon how you fare, whether to end after 14 days or expand into the full-blown protocol.

Anyway, that's my take on that - others may have a different view.

Yeah, sounds reasonable. Will see how it goes. Thank you!

 

[Gaby]

So if I were you, I would probably do a 14-day course, and doxy seems a reasonable choice. You can then monitor your reaction and decide upon how you fare, whether to end after 14 days or expand into the full-blown protocol.

Anyway, that's my take on that - others may have a different view.

Yeah, sounds reasonable. Will see how it goes. Thank you!

I think that is reasonable as well. I would aim for 300mg of doxy throughout the entire experiment though. It is a good therapy if there is pneumonia or an upper respiratory tract infection by mycoplasmas. You could eat right away if you feel heart burn. Also, make sure to drink doxy with enough water and away from minerals. If there are significant Herx reactions which you cannot "afford", you can go as planned, decrease the dose to 100mg+100mg for the next days. Having some vitamin C at hand is highly useful for Herx reactions as well. You can drink it after an hour of your doxy dose.

Make sure to take care of gut flora. It really does help with resilience and everything in general. I would also take the supplements and/or herbs that could help and that you have access to.

Although I have a "heavy" daily schedule, I decided to go for the entire protocol. The opportunity was there and I couldn't see if it was going to be feasible to do the protocol down the road. It was more like a "nothing to lose" opportunity. I was getting increasingly tired and with painful joints despite everything. I thought that in worst case scenario, I would have to take a leave from work to get proper rest. That sounded to me like a great thing!

It has been quite difficult to say the least. I managed to complete 7 cycles of metro though. I withheld from more cycles (I still have Herx reactions with Metro) until I have a better chance to get proper rest. The metro cycles are very hard and if you don't have at least a day or two at home, I would not risk it. Also, I would not do them if you don't have high quality probiotics and/or nystatin/anti-fungals.

On the plus side, the side effect after recovering from the Metro cycles has been increased energy levels and mental focus and much less arthritic pains. Several people told me that I looked better and with more energy, specially after recovering from the metro cycles.

Right now I'm taking only doxy + plaquenil + supplements and herbs. I cannot take any anti-microbial after 24-hour shifts though. I tried three times and I always ended up vomiting. I aim to take everything every single day though, but I'm respecting the hit my body takes after shift work.

I got a special probiotic formula to restore gut flora in one week after the metro cycles. That was very helpful (and extremely expensive!!) and I felt much better after that.

Right now I'm getting ready to do a few cycles of cell wall drugs like zythromax. In general, people report feeling better after zythromax regardless of their problems, so I'm not weary about that one. It is a macrolide antibiotic like Roxithromycin.

So far I have had Herx reactions even to Oregano oil. I suspect mycoplasma fermetans is one of the parasites I'm dealing with due to the heavy vaccination schedule I went through until my early 20s. I look forward to finish this nuke protocol and continue with a more holistic approach with herbs and other supplements. Got all the other books to continue researching on that line.

FWIW.

 

[Siberia]

So yeah, it could have been an acute thing that triggered a chronic problem, because in my case simple cold usually transforms into bronchitis.

Hi Keit,

Two members of my family (my mother and my niece) have a similar problem: their simple cold easily transforms into bronchitis, you can even say that they have a chronic bronchitis.

The best cure they both came up so far is as follows: they take a special pork fat called "нутряной жир" in Russian. In English it is something like visceral or interior fat. So, before bed they anoint their skin in the bronchi area with this fat and also their feet (soles). Then they put on warm clothes (pyjamas, warm socks) and go to sleep. This recipe works magic for them.

We also have a similar, just a bit different recipe on Russian Sott:

От приступов кашля можно избавиться, растираясь мазью на основе свиного сала: 50 г сала растапливают на водяной бане, слегка остужают и смешивают с водкой (2 ст.л.); можно ещё добавить пихтовое масло - 5-6 капель. Смесь втирают в грудь, сверху прикрывают толстым полотенцем или шерстяным платком, и надевают тёплую одежду - свитер или рубашку. Можно оставить компресс на ночь.

We haven't tried this version, so dunno if it gives the same effect or maybe even better. Hope you feel better soon.

 

[riclapaz]

It has been quite difficult to say the least. I managed to complete 7 cycles of metro though. I withheld from more cycles (I still have Herx reactions with Metro) until I have a better chance to get proper rest. The metro cycles are very hard and if you don't have at least a day or two at home, I would not risk it. Also, I would not do them if you don't have high quality probiotics and/or nystatin/anti-fungals.

Yes, for me they are also quite strong, I'm about 15 cycles of Metronidazole, and yet I still herx reactions, not as strong, but much tiredness and slight nausea.

On the plus side, the side effect after recovering from the Metro cycles has been increased energy levels and mental focus and much less arthritic pains. Several people told me that I looked better and with more energy, specially after recovering from the metro cycles.

I have experienced an increase in energy, I never thought existed in me, some days a week I feel very good, and others I feel pretty bad.

I got a special probiotic formula to restore gut flora in one week after the metro cycles. That was very helpful (and extremely expensive!!) and I felt much better after that.

I suspect that my probiotics are not as good, I'm taking two different brands, in addition to the recommended lactobacillus rhamnosus gg, could you please say your brand is probiotic?

Right now I'm getting ready to do a few cycles of cell wall drugs like zythromax. In general, people report feeling better after zythromax regardless of their problems, so I'm not weary about that one. It is a macrolide antibiotic like Roxithromycin.

I had to jump to take zythromax due to an infection in the urinary tract, the effect they have more had are gastrointestinal, diarrhea, I've been taking 250 mg, twice daily, while waiting for other probiotics, the bacteria that aid in diarrhea.


I've just finished reading the book,"Why Can't I Get Better", buy it in electronic version, extracted in PDF, and an online translator I have been translating, well, I confess it's been very enlightening, I'm remembering my file clinical many years ago, and I have slight suspicions about my problems, this book has been for me an incentive to continue the protocol, thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Keit]

I think that is reasonable as well. I would aim for 300mg of doxy throughout the entire experiment though. It is a good therapy if there is pneumonia or an upper respiratory tract infection by mycoplasmas. You could eat right away if you feel heart burn. Also, make sure to drink doxy with enough water and away from minerals. If there are significant Herx reactions which you cannot "afford", you can go as planned, decrease the dose to 100mg+100mg for the next days. Having some vitamin C at hand is highly useful for Herx reactions as well. You can drink it after an hour of your doxy dose.

Thank you very much for the recommendations! I started taking doxy on Thursday (the first part of the day), usually with meals, and the first 24 hours were ok. Now it got progressively worse, maybe also due to the herx reactions. Personally, I do hope that it will have an effect soon, because had a rather difficult night with a non productive cough, heavy chest symptoms and muscle pains. :( Do you think that perhaps I should add roxythromicin if there won't be any improvement today?

The best cure they both came up so far is as follows: they take a special pork fat called "нутряной жир" in Russian. In English it is something like visceral or interior fat. So, before bed they anoint their skin in the bronchi area with this fat and also their feet (soles). Then they put on warm clothes (pyjamas, warm socks) and go to sleep. This recipe works magic for them.

Thank you, Siberia, for the tip! Tried it yesterday evening (well, not with visceral, but regular fat), and maybe will try it today too. For now it probably not that effective because I don't have phlegm yet. But will keep it in mind!

 

[Gaby]

Yes, for me they are also quite strong, I'm about 15 cycles of Metronidazole, and yet I still herx reactions, not as strong, but much tiredness and slight nausea.

How about taking a break until you can address your gut balance. You can always repeat a test cycle down the road.

I suspect that my probiotics are not as good, I'm taking two different brands, in addition to the recommended lactobacillus rhamnosus gg, could you please say your brand is probiotic?

Unfortunately that is often the case. My brand is from a Spanish company (Arkopharma), so it might no be available abroad. It has the following characteristics:

50.000 million active strains in 10 grams (l. paracasei, l. plantarum, l. rhamnosus, l. acidophilus). It is 10 grams each day for 7 days. In addition to that, I took megalevura, also from a Spanish company. It contains: Saccharomyces boulardii, lactobacillus rhamnosus gg and bifidobacterium bifidus. It is like 2-5 grams each dose for 10 days.

Worked like a charm!!

I had to jump to take zythromax due to an infection in the urinary tract, the effect they have more had are gastrointestinal, diarrhea, I've been taking 250 mg, twice daily, while waiting for other probiotics, the bacteria that aid in diarrhea.

It sounds to me like the diarrhea is from the metronidazol. I think you took too many cycles without appropriate probiotics. Also, nystatin and/or other anti-fungals are really necessary when you take metronidazol so regularly.

And unfortunately, zythromax is NOT for urinary tract infections. Macrolides are great for atypical bacteria such as mycoplasma pneumoniae. Urinary tract infections are usually caused by E.Coli and other anaerobes from the gut.

Typically fosfomicin, D-mannose (a type of sugar) or nitrofurantoin and maybe amoxicillin is useful for urinary tract infections.

You safe macrolide antibiotics such as zythromax for upper respiratory tract infections and/or as an anti-cell wall drug down the road in the protocol.

Try in your local pharmacy for a high quality probiotic, or look in the web for the following characteristics suggested by Horowitz:

-Over 200 billion colony forming units from acidophilus.
- Saccharomyces boulardii.

He reminds people that Saccharomyces boulardii, lactobacillus rhamnosus gg and probiotic mixtures decreases incidence of antibiotic diarrhea. Only Saccharomyces boulardii is effective against Clostridium difficile diarrhea.

Horowitz recommends the following brands, in case you can buy them on the web:

Ultra Flora, Saccharomyces boulardii (often available in local pharmacies), probiomax, therelac.

Alternatively, go to your local pharmacy and find out about probiotics for antibiotic related diarrhea and/or traveler's diarrhea. They should have Saccharomyces boulardii.

Do address the diarrhea. Some nystatin will be helpful too.

 

[Gaby]

Thank you very much for the recommendations! I started taking doxy on Thursday (the first part of the day), usually with meals, and the first 24 hours were ok. Now it got progressively worse, maybe also due to the herx reactions. Personally, I do hope that it will have an effect soon, because had a rather difficult night with a non productive cough, heavy chest symptoms and muscle pains. :( Do you think that perhaps I should add roxythromicin if there won't be any improvement today?

That is a good option. Typically, these upper respiratory tract infections are addressed with two macrolides in 2-3 weeks of treatment. An example would be two cycles of zythromax: 500mg in 3-5 days the first and second week, and claritromycin the second and third week. There can be several combinations of these macrolides, you could use what is available to you. Roxythromicin might actually work better!

The doxy probably is killing other stuff, so some Herx reactions might be overlapping here.

If it gets out of hand, you can decrease your doxy dose as you planned initially, and address the chest infection with roxythromicin.

Vitamin C and NAC will be very helpful too. Hope you get better soon!