AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

[nicklebleu]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Well I've been a grinder all my life - have to wear a splint at night ...

Finished my first cycle as "control". Not much happened, slight nausea, lack of appetite and foggy head, but I don't think that was a Herxheimer reaction, more like side-effects of the metronidazole.

I took 1600mg of metro divided in 4 doses and 900mg of allopurinol in 3 doses.

Was thinking of stopping everything right now, but in view of the bruxism I might finish the allopurinol cycle. I haven't decided if I'll continue with the next cycle though, as I don't feel much has changed either way.

I think you should do the whole thing. I didn't have a bit of nausea or fogginess yesterday on my second day of the second round so the med didn't do any of that to me. You may just be younger, tougher, and less infested!

OK then, I'll soldier on ... in the interest of science.

:)

 

[Bo]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

I caught up with this thread, first of all I wanted to thank you Laura for sharing your journal here, all this data on metro so far is really interesting.

I was wondering about two things though:

How do you guys get the metro and allo? via a doctor's note or can you guys buy it online?

*I want to try the metro as well, but I checked and here in holland you can buy generic Flagyl (metro 400mg 30 pills) for 21,34 euros, the 500 mg metro is only available through a doctor's note. And Allopurinol can't be bought online here in any form, you can only get that via a doctor's note as well. And doctor's here aren't usually open to requests from patients in giving out medicine. They have to have a good reason to give it out.*

My second question is,

If i get the generic Flagyl(400mg metro) but not get Allopurinol would it be okay to just use pro biotics with the flagyl(400mg metro)?

 

[Gimpy]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

I would love to try this for MS, but am a bit cautious.

I've also had issues with grinding my teeth. Its significant enough my dentist made me a mouth guard out of hardened material that I couldn't bite through.

If I can get Hubby's agreement, I'll report it here as I go along. There are a few hurdles to doing it, convincing the doctors here is just one.

 

[Gaby]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

And doctor's here aren't usually open to requests from patients in giving out medicine. They have to have a good reason to give it out.

Ideally it should be prescribed by your health care provider in case something goes wrong. Perhaps an accompanying article with references will help to open the mind of some physicians? I think we will have a clear idea in the upcoming weeks, and hopefully a case report or two and an article for physicians (including the closed minded!).

In Europe, the only physicians allowed to prescribe online are UK doctors. Or so it seems. This is how certain online pharmacies sell drugs. What they sell is the online consultation with a doctor licensed in the UK and depending on how that goes, he/she will write the prescription and the pharmacy will sell you the drug online regardless of the EU country you reside. An example: _http://www.dokteronline.com/ There should be dozens of those websites. It is the first one I came up with while doing some research though.

 

[Bo]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

And doctor's here aren't usually open to requests from patients in giving out medicine. They have to have a good reason to give it out.

Ideally it should be prescribed by your health care provider in case something goes wrong. Perhaps an accompanying article with references will help to open the mind of some physicians? I think we will have a clear idea in the upcoming weeks, and hopefully a case report or two and an article for physicians (including the closed minded!).

That would be really great.

An example: _http://www.dokteronline.com/ There should be dozens of those websites. It is the first one I came up with while doing some research though.

Yup, I am aware of that one, there is one website where you can get medicine online without a prescription, but only like the weaker or lower doses it seems _http://zonder-voorschrift.net/ (they seem to sell to several/most countries by mail), for the heavy ones you need a prescription.

 

[Possibility of Being]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

I would love to try this for MS, but am a bit cautious.

And you probably should be. I don't know, perhaps there are safe protocols nowadays, but just in case that's what Prosch had to say about MS:

Dr. Nelson has
been visiting my clinic 3-4 days each month, and we are developing
and improving these techniques that he originally discovered and
perfected and he has done a magnificent job in his research. We hope
to develop techniques to improve the healing as well as the functioning
of the deformed joints of patients with even long-standing arthritis.
One exciting breakthrough is that some patients with multiple
sclerosis are getting better and improving, but let me emphasize to
any physician here that he should never treat a patient with multiple
sclerosis with the anti-amoebic protocol as the patient can be made
worse. I hope to discuss this a little further tomorrow when I talk to
you about the intraneural injections.

You may want to check my previous post and the PDFs I linked, and other sources if you can find any, before you make a decision.

 

[RedFox]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

I would love to try this for MS, but am a bit cautious.

And you probably should be.

Agreed. It's possible that the protocol damaged nerves if the myelin sheath around nerves is damaged or missing.
If I'm right in my thinking that dead/dying amoeba release iron then that would indeed cause damage to nerves that are unprotected.

I have some data to post about successful myelin regeneration so I'll go do that asap.

 

[kujo]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Very interesting! If indeed infectious amoebas are the root of many of these "autoimmune" diseases, what a maddening and simultaneously relieving bit of info it would be for many people. For now we'll have to see how the protocol works for everyone. Thanks Laura, Gaby, Nicklebleu and all for testing and recording the data.

Maintaining a keto-paleo diet makes for a less hospitable environment for these "critters" to latch on and thrive so if this isn't the foundation of extended healing and cleansing of the body I can see the autoimmune/amoeba experience being a never ending swim against the current. Ever a reminder to stay on task.

Judging by the plethora of critters known and unknown, and considering the diets we've had before becoming more aware, I'd bet there is something that can be stomped out in many of us before it ever takes a strong hold or even presents itself in the first place.

Wondering if one were to try the protocol without having any auto-immune disease symptoms, if it would be beneficial at all, AND could there be a possibility of say, "pissing off" the potential amoeba/parasite causing something to stir up that was more or less just "loitering?"

The herxheimer reaction could feel like something was "pissed off' but I mean more or less the action coming from parasite itself, as an act of parasite retribution/defense, not just the toxins from die-off... or would it be more correct to see the toxins from die-off as the defense mechanism, like what Redfox just proposed with the iron release?

 

[Possibility of Being]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Agreed. It's possible that the protocol damaged nerves if the myelin sheath around nerves is damaged or missing.

Not so much the protocol itself, as it seems, as the reaction. From Lecture 1:

I should mention that no
patient with multiple sclerosis should be treated with the anti-amoebic therapy as they
may become worse and even paralysis can result. We believe this is due to the extreme
Herxheimer reaction that takes place at the nerve site which is involved and as the germs
die that are involving the myelin sheath. The increased edema and swelling of the
surrounding tissues causes further nerve damage.

That possible iron connection is interesting and worth looking into. :)

 

[Oxajil]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything on the antiamoebic effects of boron, though it might be that Dr. Newnham discusses this in his book 'Beating Arthritis and Beating Osteoporosis'. While searching around, I found something interesting here:

Boron may justifiably be understood as a general health enhancer, and we do not yet know it’s full range of influence. On page 69 of Beating Arthritis & Beating Osteoporosis there is an account of a retired lady with congestive heart failure and arthritis. After only 2 months on the Boron, both her arthritis and her congestive heart failure where considerably improved. Dr Rex Newham heard of a case of hay fever that was greatly improved with Boron. This is understandable if we consider that the improvement in calcium metabolism alone, for which much of Boron’s action is centred on, will tend to calm the system, tending to reduce allergies and the auto-immune reactions involved in many health conditions, not just Arthritis. Boron will help to incorporate all the other minerals into the bones reports Dr. Newman, so it is not unreasonable to assume that Boron may also help with the correct cellular uptake of minerals and trace elements into the cells. All types of arthritis may be helped by Boron and also systemic Lupus Erythematosis.

Perhaps it may have some antiamoebic effects, but either way, based on what I've read about boron so far, it definitely seems a useful supplement to take. A study published last year ('Update on human health effects of boron') summarized the 'plausible boron mechanisms of action':

The diverse responses reported for animals and humans deprived of boron have made it difficult to identify a primary mechanism for its possibly beneficial activity. The wide range of responses likely is secondary to boron influencing a cell signaling system and/or the formation and/or activity of entity that is involved in many biochemical processes.

[...] Recent findings suggest that the diverse beneficial effects of boron occur through affecting the presence or action of biomolecules containing adenosine or formed from adenosine precursors. These biomolecules include S-adenosylmethionine and diadenosine phosphates that have higher affinities for boron than any other recognized boron ligands in animal tissues [40]. Diadenosine phosphates are present in all animal cells and function as signal nucleotides involved with neuronal response. S-adenosylmethionine is one of the most frequently used enzyme substrates in the body [41]. About 95% of S-adenosylmethionine is used in methylation reactions, which influence the activity of DNA, RNA, proteins, phospholipids, hormones, and transmitters. The methylation reactions result in the formation of S-adenosylhomocysteine, which can be hydrolyzed into homocysteine.

[...] High circulating homocysteine and depleted S-adenosylmethionine have been implicated in many of the disorders that can be affected by nutritional intakes of boron, including arthritis, osteoporosis, cancer, diabetes, and impaired brain function. Further support for the hypothesis is that the bacterial quorum-sensing signal molecule, auto-inducer-2, is a furanosyl borate ester synthesized from S-adenosylmethionine [43]. Quorum sensing is the cell-to-cell communication between bacteria accomplished through the exchange of extracellular signaling molecules (auto-inducers).

Boron also strongly binds oxidized nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) [40] and thus might influence reactions in which it is involved. [...]. Boron in concentrations that are found in blood was found to decrease Ca2+release from ryandodine receptor-sensitive stores [45]. Thus, it has been hypothesized that boron is bioactive through binding NAD+ and/or cyclic ADP ribose and inhibiting the release of Ca2+, which is a signal ion for many processes affected by boron, including insulin release, bone formation, immune response, and brain function.

[...] However, the finding that the borate transporter NaBC1, which apparently is essential for boron homeostasis in animal cells, conducts Na+and OH−across cell membranes in the absence of boron[48], supports the suggestion that boron deprivation might affect the transduction of regulatory and signaling ions across cell membranes.

So it appears that boron plays a crucial role in cell to cell communication.

Regarding intake:

Both animals and humans deprived of boron exhibit positive health benefits when provided with intakes of boron that may be achieved through consuming foods of plant origin. In human depletion–repletion experiments, participants responded to a 3 mg/d boron supplement after consuming a diet supplyingonly 0.2–0.4 mg boron/day for 63 days [21,22,49]. Extrapolations from animal experiments indicate that to achieve optimal benefits of boron, intakes >0.5 mg/day are needed and that boron supplementation is unlikely to elicit a response in individuals consuming atleast 1 mg boron/day [50]. Thus, if an adequate intake level is ever established for the health benefits of boron, it is likely to be between 0.5 and 1.0 mg/d.

However, participants in Dr. Newnham's study were given 6 mg of boron per day, which appeared to benefit some of them. Another study also used this same approach. Fwiw.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

I caught up with this thread, first of all I wanted to thank you Laura for sharing your journal here, all this data on metro so far is really interesting.

I was wondering about two things though:

How do you guys get the metro and allo? via a doctor's note or can you guys buy it online?

*I want to try the metro as well, but I checked and here in holland you can buy generic Flagyl (metro 400mg 30 pills) for 21,34 euros, the 500 mg metro is only available through a doctor's note. And Allopurinol can't be bought online here in any form, you can only get that via a doctor's note as well. And doctor's here aren't usually open to requests from patients in giving out medicine. They have to have a good reason to give it out.*

My second question is,

If i get the generic Flagyl(400mg metro) but not get Allopurinol would it be okay to just use pro biotics with the flagyl(400mg metro)?

I take the 400mg metro tablets, doesn't have to be the 500mg ones - just make sure you get the total dose each day.

As to allopurinol, I wouldn't advise to do the protocol without the allopurinol, as it seems to be an integral part of killing the amoebas (it interferes with their metabolism).

Definitely try to go via your GP, or alternatively via these UK doctors sites, as Gaby suggested.

 

[RedFox]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

I have some data to post about successful myelin regeneration so I'll go do that asap.

See here :)

 

[Beau]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Wondering if one were to try the protocol without having any auto-immune disease symptoms, if it would be beneficial at all, AND could there be a possibility of say, "pissing off" the potential amoeba/parasite causing something to stir up that was more or less just "loitering?"

Lucky for us, I believe we have nickelbleu doing the protocol who is not suffering from an AI condition. Correct me if I'm wrong nickelbleu. I do tend to think that these amoebas could exist in people who do not suffer from an AI condition and that they perhaps manifest the effects of the amoeba differently, possibly based on genetics or other factors. But that's just speculation.

The herxheimer reaction could feel like something was "pissed off' but I mean more or less the action coming from parasite itself, as an act of parasite retribution/defense, not just the toxins from die-off... or would it be more correct to see the toxins from die-off as the defense mechanism, like what Redfox just proposed with the iron release?

It's possible, but I don't know if nature has imbued these particular organisms with any kind of defense mechanisms or not. The iron release can be dealt with for most people, it's just that those with MS are particularly sensitive to that But even that is associated with a herxheimer reaction due to die off, which I don't think is related to an action from the parasite itself. But yes, I'd say staying on a low carb, high fat diet can definitely provide a negative environment for these critters so it's another motivating factor to stay vigilant in that area. We know the standard American diet leads to autoimmune disorders, so it can be reasonably be assumed that that diet lead to these amoebas, assuming the connection between the amoeba infection and AI is what we think it is.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Lucky for us, I believe we have nickelbleu doing the protocol who is not suffering from an AI condition. Correct me if I'm wrong nickelbleu. I do tend to think that these amoebas could exist in people who do not suffer from an AI condition and that they perhaps manifest the effects of the amoeba differently, possibly based on genetics or other factors. But that's just speculation.

That's correct! Will be intersting to see.

Still suffer from some low-grade nausea, despite being off metronidazole. So it might be the allopurinol causing it. Thankfully the protocol demands allpurinol only for the first cycle. One thing I found out the hard way is that taking these meds on an empty stomach is not a good idea.

I know, it says on the box that you shouldn't do it ...

 

[kujo]

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

It's possible, but I don't know if nature has imbued these particular organisms with any kind of defense mechanisms or not. The iron release can be dealt with for most people, it's just that those with MS are particularly sensitive to that But even that is associated with a herxheimer reaction due to die off, which I don't think is related to an action from the parasite itself. But yes, I'd say staying on a low carb, high fat diet can definitely provide a negative environment for these critters so it's another motivating factor to stay vigilant in that area. We know the standard American diet leads to autoimmune disorders, so it can be reasonably be assumed that that diet lead to these amoebas, assuming the connection between the amoeba infection and AI is what we think it is.

Depending on the extent of the amoeba infection as well as other environmental factors, could be possible then that as the amoeba die off and release iron that the body can become overwhelmed by the "detritus" left behind (iron overload). It would appear as something to keep an eye on especially if one has had high iron levels in the past, and I can only assume that if the amoeba feed on iron that the most rampant cases would already have high levels within the host that are being absorb by the parasite?

When a parasite "feeds off of iron" (or another substance) is it considered then not part of the bodies "inventory?" I'm not sure how this works. For example, could someone with an amoeba infection such as we're discussing, be considered "iron deficient" if the little cirtters are in an eating frenzy, and then after treating and having die-off then have haemochromatosis?

Is there any info in the protocol and studies that discuss excess iron as a side effect and ways for its elimination - some sort of chelate or having blood drawn?