Bad Boys

[jacygirl]

It might be considered as a digression from the original 'Bad Boys' but there are certain behavioral patterns that point to a cognitive switch in girls. For instance, girls that chose the military as a career, girls in martial arts, girls as firefighters, girls in the police force, girls as prison guards, girls as mine workers, girls as crane operators etc. That pattern may stop when the girl in case enters into matrimony and has children or if the work environment permits it can continue.
I have not seen any study that explains this preference but I believe it is more commonplace to previous and current Communist countries, and also it was probably quite common during the WWII when men jobs had to be done by women.
Can this cognitive pattern be related to a undeveloped or suppressed rather emotional center or to just an experience path of romanticized and misunderstood man's virtues,status and power?

Can a cognitive pattern be related? Absolutely, I'm sure in some circumstances. But not in all circumstances. In the jobs you mentioned I already see a lot falling into the 'savor/hero' complex of wanting to save everyone.
Some daughters follow the family footsteps into military, firefighters, police, even construction. I think those jobs are more women-heavy now because of equality. Why was it more commonplace to previous and current Communist countries? Perhaps those countries actually had more equality in jobs out of some sort of necessity or it began after a war, as you mentioned WW2 which had that same effect in Western countries too.
I think parental relationships have a huge impact. Early life trauma. Creative interests in pursuing something considered inappropriate for a girl. (I wanted to take drafting and pursue architecture. My mother forced me to take typing so I would "always have a job because architecture is a man's job.) Our family has a huge influence on who we are. This is not something that can be assumed because each soul's journey has been unique. The reasons for their behavior are just as unique, as no two people have the exact same experience.

 

[jacygirl]

Can a cognitive pattern be related? Absolutely, I'm sure in some circumstances. But not in all circumstances. In the jobs you mentioned I already see a lot falling into the 'savor/hero' complex of wanting to save everyone.
Some daughters follow the family footsteps into military, firefighters, police, even construction. I think those jobs are more women-heavy now because of equality. Why was it more commonplace to previous and current Communist countries? Perhaps those countries actually had more equality in jobs out of some sort of necessity or it began after a war, as you mentioned WW2 which had that same effect in Western countries too.
I think parental relationships have a huge impact. Early life trauma. Creative interests in pursuing something considered inappropriate for a girl. (I wanted to take drafting and pursue architecture. My mother forced me to take typing so I would "always have a job because architecture is a man's job.) Our family has a huge influence on who we are. This is not something that can be assumed because each soul's journey has been unique. The reasons for their behavior are just as unique, as no two people have the exact same experience.

And then we have this:
"No one wanted to be white girl who likes boys because that was known as the oppressor.”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1835997570621165775

 

[Ina]

In previous Marxist-Leninist or Communist systems and perhaps the current ones in North Korea, China and Cuba, there was no case made of manhood and womanhood, and no differentiation in terms of appellation as everyone was addressed with comrade and surname, or simply surname (in school). Fun. Of course there was recognition and differentiation between genders in sports for instance, and the society had explicit principles of equality of rights between man and woman from matrimony to work / occupation and remuneration. In some of the Eastern Block countries (maybe all) the girls in the tertiary education also had to do compulsory military training in arms compatible/complementary with/to their field of study.
This is a case of highly programmed society in terms of behavior, where choice is limited to one's aptitudes. If you have high aptitudes you could enter into good tertiary education which can offer better opportunities.

 

[jacygirl]

In previous Marxist-Leninist or Communist systems and perhaps the current ones in North Korea, China and Cuba, there was no case made of manhood and womanhood, and no differentiation in terms of appellation as everyone was addressed with comrade and surname, or simply surname (in school). Fun. Of course there was recognition and differentiation between genders in sports for instance, and the society had explicit principles of equality of rights between man and woman from matrimony to work / occupation and remuneration. In some of the Eastern Block countries (maybe all) the girls in the tertiary education also had to do compulsory military training in arms compatible/complementary with/to their field of study.
This is a case of highly programmed society in terms of behavior, where choice is limited to one's aptitudes. If you have high aptitudes you could enter into good tertiary education which can offer better opportunities.

No doubt every country/culture has it's own social parameters of 'roles' that are acceptable, and those that are not. Do I believe that men and women should be treated as equals? Yes. But I don't think that means that they are the same. Different strengths and weaknesses obviously, but one gender is not superior to the other (to me).
I don't know what their compulsory military training was like, but I would imagine that it was positive for some and negative for others. Not based on physical ability but more about character (for both genders)

It seems that most societies are limited in choices. There are acceptable roles you may assume, but these are your available choices so find a box and put yourself inside it. People aren't cats, they don't like being in boxes. It can get confining and claustrophobic, especially if you are needing/wanting to do or express something that is not approved. It makes some rebellious and they break out of the box. But all the other box dwellers point and whisper, because now you are a rebel, an outcast...maybe even a 'bad boy' or 'bad girl'. Tsk, tsk.

Tolerance is taught, as long as it's tolerance of those who are alike. The 'different' ones are not tolerated quite so well. So some people stay in their box, in their character, all their lives. Some get depressed with the "Truman Show"movie theme of 'the rinse and repeat cycle of a life lived small'. Some have low expectations, so they are content to live a small life, as long as it's secure.

I really can't conclude that there is any one given set of factors that creates a 'bad boy' any more than a 'savior' or any other title/stereotype. I think there are so many that you could have a hundred different discussions and there will still be no definite 'cause thus effect' reason.

 

[BHelmet]

Obviously, I have been pondering how to proceed for some time now.

The part about off-purpose, and distracting social interaction posting was correct, but anything beyond that is guesswork, speculation, and unnecessary projection. It is impossible know the inner workings of another soul, as was thoughtfully said. That type of judging is based on subjective impressions subject to misinterpretation.

Before I gave myself a time out, I did notice a number of comments about STS feeding. 1. I was not taking negative shots that might drain anybody else that I am aware of. 2. if there was any feeding going on, it was positive, mutual and agreed upon between jacygirl and I.

People who have never been married or had kids or been in a serious long-term committed relationship, should have second thoughts about making proclamations about anything to do with relationships where others are concerned. It doesn’t matter what you have read or what seemingly brilliant videos you have watched. Observers who have limited in-game experience, sitting in the stands, kibitzing the action on the field, are often going to be making comments lacking real perspective and depth.

Certainly I can see how the impression came across that there was some sexual context, but, sometimes two old souls recognize each other and it is nothing more than that. (although that is certainly something)

On a certain level, I am just a reflection in a mirror of your own soul and what you see in me may only be what you harbor within yourself. Externalizing personal shadows onto other beings is a standard thing. I understand that is how it often goes.

Suggestion: reread Paul’s letter to the Corinthians and ask if you have lived up to that in this thread. (if that is an aim and a standard of yours) I must acknowledge that It was wonderful to read the supportive comments of so many. So, If none of this applies to you, congratulations! I salute You!

I have pondered: why say anything further at all? People are going to think what they think. It is usually easier to say nothing. There are plenty of big lessons here. Perhaps the silly banter had a bigger purpose than it seemed at first.

To bring it back to the thread title: The a priori open question: where does the “Bad” or "Good" come from? Who decides what that is and by what process?

That’s it. I am ready to move on.

 

[happyliza]

I think it is a fairer system for women now in the fact that if you wish to aim for a particular job, trade, career now, that it is generally open to you and that there are no 'eyebrows raised' per se
However, I also think that there could be a tendancy to be too leftist about this, as there is really a physical limit to things that men are actually better performing, safetywise too.
At least thankfully we have come a long way since I was at school and the career 'advice' for women was so stereotyped, pigeonholed and of much lower expectations. The general consensus being 'well you will find yourself a husband and be having children' so that will be the end of any thoughts of a career.
Plus no university encouragement (though I feel I actually benefitted from not going to university). It was secretarial work, caring/nursing, bank cashier or shop assistant!
Actually ironically I WAS the first in my year to settle and have children lol. But I also surprised my former teachers (as I was also a regular school reunion attendant), to have competed against 64 other candidates in Scottish Gas just for a junior management position as my first job! Which I left afte about 4 months to visit my boyfriend's parents with him in Abu Dhabi, where after having 3 jobs - am,pm and teaching english in the evenings set up my own property company after 6 months at age 19. Which university would not have taught me to do. It wa the University of Life that taught me that.
That was a very brief couple of years in my life when I DID believe in myself. Short-lived until shortly after the boyfriend became husband. Then I sure wish, in hindsight, I had had a copy of Women who love psychopaths! I can only vaue the experience now, but there is then the Sliding Doors effect. Could I, or would I, have changed my life around with the knowledge from that book? I think it would have definitely prevented me from a long string of fallin for one after another for a very long time.
So there is the regret of the majority years of my life 'wasted', and what I may have done, or could have done far better with that time, had I had the prior knowledge.
I can't beat myself up about that as it is what it is. And I am sure I am not the only person here who may have such thoughts of past actions/choices.
Also some inner 'knowing' never accepted the school 'careers advice'. I sensed the it unfair and a purely local thinking, when there was a huge world out there. However, I DID listen to my mother re the typing/shorthand course - which DID actually act as my springboard abroad. But I didn't listen to her advice and all her good reasons NOT to marry the uy I did! Repent at leisure!!

 

[jacygirl]

I think it is a fairer system for women now in the fact that if you wish to aim for a particular job, trade, career now, that it is generally open to you and that there are no 'eyebrows raised' per se
However, I also think that there could be a tendancy to be too leftist about this, as there is really a physical limit to things that men are actually better performing, safetywise too.
At least thankfully we have come a long way since I was at school and the career 'advice' for women was so stereotyped, pigeonholed and of much lower expectations. The general consensus being 'well you will find yourself a husband and be having children' so that will be the end of any thoughts of a career.
Plus no university encouragement (though I feel I actually benefitted from not going to university). It was secretarial work, caring/nursing, bank cashier or shop assistant!
Actually ironically I WAS the first in my year to settle and have children lol. But I also surprised my former teachers (as I was also a regular school reunion attendant), to have competed against 64 other candidates in Scottish Gas just for a junior management position as my first job! Which I left afte about 4 months to visit my boyfriend's parents with him in Abu Dhabi, where after having 3 jobs - am,pm and teaching english in the evenings set up my own property company after 6 months at age 19. Which university would not have taught me to do. It wa the University of Life that taught me that.
That was a very brief couple of years in my life when I DID believe in myself. Short-lived until shortly after the boyfriend became husband. Then I sure wish, in hindsight, I had had a copy of Women who love psychopaths! I can only vaue the experience now, but there is then the Sliding Doors effect. Could I, or would I, have changed my life around with the knowledge from that book? I think it would have definitely prevented me from a long string of fallin for one after another for a very long time.
So there is the regret of the majority years of my life 'wasted', and what I may have done, or could have done far better with that time, had I had the prior knowledge.
I can't beat myself up about that as it is what it is. And I am sure I am not the only person here who may have such thoughts of past actions/choices.
Also some inner 'knowing' never accepted the school 'careers advice'. I sensed the it unfair and a purely local thinking, when there was a huge world out there. However, I DID listen to my mother re the typing/shorthand course - which DID actually act as my springboard abroad. But I didn't listen to her advice and all her good reasons NOT to marry the uy I did! Repent at leisure!!

I used to believe that no matter which decisions or choices you make in your life, you are always going to have regrets.
For myself, I have reached a place where I can see that they all had to happen to bring me to where and who I am today. I look at everything as a lesson and I remind myself of all the lessons I've learned (and continue to learn).
By putting things in a different perspective I can appreciate both the immense suffering and the moments of pure joy. They all have their place and can no longer be judged as 'good' or 'bad'. (funny thing to say in this thread about 'bad boys' and labels, and judging...and assumptions...almost ironic!)
Granted there is a lot that I would never choose to live through again, they left their scars externally and internally. The external ones still hurt but the internal ones have pretty much been laid to rest. If only we could see all angles and versions of every situation or person that appears in our life, but we can't. So we do what we can at the time, and when we know better we do better. (Maya Angelou quote)

 

[Alejo]

The part about off-purpose, and distracting social interaction posting was correct

ok then.

Everything else you said, about everyone else being technically wrong, well ok then too.. no one knows what goes on in your mind and heart (which is true) and as such, unless you're asking, everyone else should pretty much keep their likely wrong opinions to themselves. I suppose that's fair enough.

I think the conclusion is, however you explain the level of interaction you choose to have with another human being, this forum isn't the best place (nor is it its purpose) to have a private one on one. So, kindly, please take that elsewhere. Not kicking anyone out, just.. private stuff is private, have it privately, away from the forum please.

 

[Alejo]

It's mind blowing how people can find a way to rationalize their way of deciding that you are somehow inferior to them, and therefore it's ok for them to do/say whatever they want to you. Usually stuff that enforces their belief that they are superior. When I witness this behavior being played out in front of me, I know that there is a much larger dynamic beneath surface level.

This is actually probably the default state of every human psyche, there's a bit of evidence that suggests that our conscious self isn't truly in charge of making decisions as much as explaining them away after they have been decided by something else altogether. Johnathan Haidt offered the analogy of an elephant and its rider, and the rider's job is to serve the elephant by writing narratives for the choices it makes, including rationalizing why the rider "wanted" whatever the elephant wanted to do in the first place.

This includes not just everyday emotional choices and reactions, but also our own self perception, and the perception we want others to have of us, we defend it to the bitter end truth be damned. This includes the groups we feel we belong to, so people are really unlikely to question the validity of whatever specialness they perceive or receive from belonging to that group.

If you really think about it that way, and ever ponder about how the elephant actually makes its choices, we realize we're truly stranger to ourselves, bringing it back to the bad boys topic, the choices we make when finding someone appealing or irresistible, might not be ours at all, they simply feel magical for some reason, which could be explored, but for the most part they simply get explained by the rider or excused away in very romantic terms, by the time the realization of the pattern being repeated, it's most often too late.

 

[BHelmet]

ok then.

I already stated this in an earlier post.

Everything else you said, about everyone else being technically wrong, well ok then too.

Everyone Wrong? No. Just the element of doubt is in play. I gave serious consideration to everything everyone said.

. no one knows what goes on in your mind and heart (which is true) and as such, unless you're asking, everyone else should pretty much keep their likely wrong opinions to themselves. I suppose that's fair enough.

Not “likely wrong”. Just not absolutely certain. That’s a big difference. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

I think the conclusion is, however you explain the level of interaction you choose to have with another human being, this forum isn't the best place (nor is it its purpose) to have a private one on one. So, kindly, please take that elsewhere.

I already acknowledged this twice. Why do you feel the need to restate this?

Not kicking anyone out, just.. private stuff is private, have it privately, away from the forum please.

Please stop beating a horse that should be allowed to die. Let’s let this go.

 

[BHelmet]

Bear in mind there is one helluva big full moon up there right now. Emotions tend to run high in such circumstances. Try not to lose your sense of humor if you have one. I’m thinking I should back off from posting anything for a while. I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Ina]

Bear in mind there is one helluva big full moon up there right now. Emotions tend to run high in such circumstances. Try not to lose your sense of humor if you have one. I’m thinking I should back off from posting anything for a while. I’ll leave it at that.

Enjoy MIA timey mate, maybe add a dash of mustard to your coffee like an old Uni friend of mine wanted in my dream last night, that made wake up in tears. Tell you what, this eclipse is something else.

 

[jacygirl]

Every morning I come in here and it's like this. It's like "Show and Tell" at school and everybody brought their ego.
It's like the party the kids have when the parents are away, and they leave a mess of beer bottles and pizza boxes. But here, I come in and step over bruised egos instead of bottles. So once again, Mom is going to attempt to clean up.
For one thing, why are y'all so attached to your ego? And being right? Can you even handle being wrong, and if not why?
Being judgy wudgy and assuming superiority is not how you go about achieving 4D STO candidacy. Wrong campaign strategy.

Why do words on a screen, written by a stranger, cause an immediate emotional reaction? (Good topic for a thread) Do you feel personally insulted? Attacked? Does shaming another person make you feel better about yourself?
Random questions, no individual is being targeted here, it's just something I notice that happens all the time...everywhere. Can you not care? Can you accept that this is one person's perception of you, based on who they themselves are...nothing really to do with you?

Every discussion doesn't have to be an argument. Maybe it's a debate. Each participant picks a side to defend. That still sounds rather argumentative to me. Perhaps sometimes you have to just agree to disagree. It's okay, the sun will still rise tomorrow.

I was recently described as "a loose canon", lol. I prefer to be a blow dart into that hard crusty shell around your heart. Love isn't judgy, it is accepting of a person's 'flaws' and loving them anyway. Can you love somebody you don't know personally? Sure, I can, have and do. How can you do that jacy??? Well...how can anyone decide to hate somebody they don't know personally? That happens all the time, especially online. Some people choose hate, others choose love. Oh look! it's a choice! It's your choice.

There is a lot of good discussion in this thread. Sometimes we need to have the tough talks, the talks that people don't normally have because of 'hurt feelz' and all that. But if you can get past your emotional reactions and pay attention to who is talking, and what is being said...you can learn something. I'm still learning and I'm ancient. You can 'teach an old dog new tricks'.
Oh, and you young whippersnapper..get off my lawn!!! (is that more age appropriate for an old bird?)
I still love all y'all.

 

[Beau]

Why do words on a screen, written by a stranger, cause an immediate emotional reaction?

I don't see anyone being emotionally reactive, immediate or otherwise. You seem to be a bit upset by what's been written though.

Let me ask you this. If you were a guest in someone's home for the first time and you started complaining about the color of the carpets and drapes, and how the furniture is placed, how do you think that would go over?

 

[Turgon]

Every morning I come in here and it's like this. It's like "Show and Tell" at school and everybody brought their ego.

Including yourself. Thankfully in this school you aren't forced to attend class everyday if you don't like what you see. There's a great quote from Rumi: If you're irritated by every rub, how will you polish your mirror?