happyliza
The Living Force
Thank you from my heart for expressing so 'from the heart' all the observations into one post, that have personally affected me through the years Happy Poo.I'm commenting again as I def overreacted here I think, can truly see what some forum members are saying. But possibly it got to me because I could really sense the hurt coming from these guys too.. It genuinely didn't come across like flirting to me personally, a little bit perhaps, and again i can see how some perceived it like this.. Although after they did explain well I thought.
Still, though, don't think its great to make pre judgement and for me this thread was actually a lesson about that. But that's just my opinion..
Although can totally see what your saying Jenn when it comes to networking on a more personal level though, I really do hear you and I do understand. And mods admins definitely don't have an easy job here, I'd not want to be in your shoes. Its a difficult balance to get i can see.. Where to draw the line? No idea lol. I don't think I'm "right " necessarily either. At the same time the way it was handled could have been different in that Its not what is said but the way its said, its a cliche but a difficult one to live by in practice and trust im no angel its an issue I've been trying to deal with for a long time, I'd say the last post i put was a big fail in my eyes tbh, was trying to get something across, and didn't do it in the best way really.
It did look to me that Bhelmet didn't actually carry on with the interaction with jackygirl after Alejo commented, he asked the mods on their thoughts, albeit coming from a different perspective, so I didn't see a good reason for the reaction to his comment and imo there was no need for the pretty intolerant response. With something like Alejos latest comment up here, you know, just a more amiable and friendly reaction, but with the same sentiment, it may not have played out how it did. Newer members don't necessarily understand the dynamics here etc etc.
It didn't come across like two peoples programs running to me, call me naive or whatever but it just looked like two people connecting and having a laugh. The impression I get is that some of the higher esoteric concepts are getting in the way, with people posting stuff from books etc and projecting it onto individuals and situations when it doesn't necessarily apply.
Its like we are constantly looking for the "bad" and jumping to the worst conclusion , it's a cynical point of view imo, when what I see is that people are just trying to connect, as again its a natural tendency to wanna do this. For me its about focusing on the good in people too, not just finding the weakness in each other to highlight and correct them but also about trying to inspire , lift people up, and from what i can see most of us are having a crappy time and probably need a bit of love! I mean , there's lots of this on the forum which is amazingly loving too.. i do truly see that and am very grateful for it.
Alot of people here who are not more connected in real life to others in the work can be pretty lonely though in terms of in person connection, and in comparison it does come across like some of you guys are well surrounded ( and good for you lol:)! .. Its just that alot of us may not even know like 1 person in real life that can grasp this stuff. But I guess we have to do the best with what we have as its far from an ideal world.
That's not to say that the forum is a place where you can't connect, I had to comment again because it was not balanced what I put. There a loads of wonderful interactions here as Alejo said folks (and thank you for reminding me Alejo) folks have some great interaction!
In some situations feel its good to give people the benefit of the doubt if possible though, when I'm not sure, even if all things are pointing in a certain direction as its still so easy to get stuff wrong with so little info. And sometimes when my emotions get in the way, im not able to do this either so apologies for that.
It was difficult for me to read some of the opinions however, about the low quality posts, inane comments etc, because I think its subjective as to what can be perceived as an inane comment for example, and this does come across me a being a little elitist in terms of newer people and how long it may take for us to learn how to post and network. I've never once thought that any post was particularly inane or low quality. For some people, as it was for me many years ago, it may be difficult to make even 1 comment with a couple of sentences due to lack of confidence and worrying, so attitudes like this do risk to push people out who , in a few years could contribute more on the forum, energetically or in other ways. And in the situation we find ourselves in, as far as i can see, we need all the help we can get and the more people the better. As long as people aren't being rude or abusive to each other, I can handle a few posts that may not be up to scratch. I get that people are busy too.. Although When I see a post or thread that I don't wanna read, I just go to another one or scroll down so its never been much of an issue for me honestly..
I think of what the C'said about love = light = knowledge, and a deeper knowledge of each other which can also come from more casual informal interaction can lead to greater knowledge, and depth of connection, by sharing impressions, laughter, perceptions about even the more trivial moments of our lives, can be educational, so it isn't necessarily inane imo. For me the work of knowing self, isn't the only goal, its about unification too. Which is a difficult one as I also understand that sharing more personal stuff isn't always wise either in a public forum, so i def don't have the answers.
I totally get we need a feedback from folks and don't know ourselves, it more about the ways in which its done and again, taking into account the cold and cruel world that people come here from , often in a state of damage and wounds, it may not be helping to feedback in a way that some perceive to be sometimes judgemental and intolerant. Defensive reactions also come when people have already had a ear full of it for a lifetime as is the case for those of us oriented to light in a dark world from what I've Learned. Energy drainage can happen when someone Has misjudged me. Its an awful feeling to be misunderstood, as the song goes.. "o please don't let me be misunderstood " lol. I did feel that these guys made a lot of effort to explain to avoid this misunderstanding and the words came from the heart. Thats just how it felt to me.
I'm not really follower of Gurdieff, hence why some of my opinion may be at odds. I mean he was a great man no doubt, I've read In Search of the Miraculous, and he was a wonderful teacher, there was no one quite like him. Which is apparently why he slipped a bit too from what the C' s said.
The C's and haven't said to follow him in particular though, from what i can see, and also it came out that he was wrong about alot of things. Even if he was totally right about others and the ideas of the work on self are intrinsic to growth.. His ideas did come across like lacking love and understanding, the groups he created seemed sterile, his way came across too harsh and feel like some aspects of this have influenced things here, not necessarily in a good way imo . . Thats just how it comes across to me and it's just a personal opinion. I mean, his work it was actually amazing, it's more like to temper it with new stuff and always try to find ways to improve etc and not become to entrenched in one particular school of thought.
Its like the knowledge that we have been given now has superceded some of his ideas, and change from these ideas is not a bad thing imo.
I still think the mirror is controversial/difficult/risky thing to do in practice online it's very difficult to really get a good picture of a person and their life, I know its all we've got to go on but still, think its good to hold back on hasty judgement as again, its not easy to understand someone from a screen, I cannot see someone's body language, hear their voice, see their smile or sorrows, and I don't know what they are going through in their life as we speak. I guess the ideal would be to do this in person around people who know us better but again that's probably not gonna happen as groups like this in person are so rare, although to balance this any feedback could be provided in a kinder way, more understanding of people who aren't at a certain level or don't necessarily get it yet, well I don't really get it either! Which is probably what you guys think. I know im a bit simple . Ah well, maybe im not suitable for the Work, I do admit that too. I think in future I'll just stick to doing music etc and probably not get involved in all this stuff cause if I'm honest I don't really understand it very well.
Also I'm sorry if I threw my toys out the pram, there was no need for me to react in the way I did either, was a bit full on. I guess it really did trigger me and I'll try to be more open to what you guys have to say.. As my own ego does also get in the way.
You are so right in the need to consider what someone is actually going through at the time, even if they re still trying hteir utmost to follow the work despite their own background trauma or urgent health problems. I had this trauma embedded in me for years, doing all I could to release it before I could move on again. Or properly be even able to take things on board, as I was literally in 'survival mode'. I was already down the abyss, my own fault/bad choices, or otherwise. Plus I will still processing my deep grief and 'losses' despite enlightening myself with every helpful book/truth possible.
And I have said on here before 'Oh Lord, Please don let me be misunderstood' is my favourate song/lyrics of all time. The George Harrison's 'My Sweet Lord' - both re DCM connection since 11 years old.
When already hurting far more than you physically think it is possible to hurt, inwardly crying inside most of the time, further hurt just seemed so cruel. Similar when I was literally seriously dying due to acute health issues
Prior to saving my life my father and son had also confirmed to me that much of the Gurdjieff teaching was above my comprehension at the time. As I was trying so hard studying, writing a whole file/compendium just trying to connect the dots to comprehension, terminology and so far from being able to apply it yet because of that. It was a relief to be told not to beat myself up about it at the time.
You are also absolutely right in the fact that many of us do live alone, and I have related how reclusive I am atm particularly with everything urgent to deal with just to keep my home! But also I have realised recently how LONELY I actually am. I have refused to acknowledge that to myself for decades as it is not helpful at all for me to allow any 'self pity' thoughts to derail my mission nor let myself get depressed again - as I sure know the experience of being at the bottom of the abyss for years, and looking for books, activities, thoughts to keep up my hope and keep useless selfish suicidal thoughts at bay.
So yes this site is the only form of 'human' interaction that many of us have sadly. Though my thanks also go to my Brazilian Spiritist friends and our online meetings/studies to pull me back from the precipice eventually.
Many of us miss the support of our families, the camaraderie, even having a conversation in real life that is not just about the local 'to do list' tasks!
Also in the past I too had read all the rules, did not retain them all, nor much else for that matter as I was full on dealing with back to back psychopathic partners - - the most debilitating and energy vampiric lessons I felt I ever had in my life of incredibly wrong partner choices! and I certainly did NOT know myself nor have any self respect for myself at that time. I detested myself. So love was also missing inside me sadly.
So I was bleeding inside, just spiralling downwards and unable to truly take new advice on board. In fact deflecting and keeping any derogatory comments at bay, even if they were for my growth and benefit, was all I could do. It was a fast and cruel slippery slope - but I had caused it myself by my sheer neediness and looking for love in all the wrong places trying to put a band-aid on the grief and inner agony. Any agony just had to be brushed aside to survive.
I dont believe that someone can know anyone 100% online, only a facet of someone. Above I have have given my honest reasons for that. They can only see the attitude or behaviour but not the soul in crisis, or aspects surrounding a person. So maybe the see only the symptoms.
Also, not that long ago remember the C's particularly saying 'Be kind to each other'.
I think it maybe wise to follow up on what exactly they meant by that comment, other than the obvious.
Picking ourselves up, extricating ourselves from harmful experiences, even carrying on at the time can all be very deeply distressing and emotonally blinding experiences. I truly empathize and heartfully congratulate anyone here that has managed to do that, because for most it is beyond the realms of comprehension. However, think of just how much you have actually learned in the process - it is deeply etched into you now, and how helpful you are now as the correct type of support for those who ask. There is a great variety and a whole gamut of ways to suffer on our planet, and I think everyone here must have experienced many different versions of them to date. Big hugs
