Bad Boys

[BHelmet]

(I'll take 'Big Words' for a thousand, Alex. What is...anti-climactic?) (Seriously though, what was your word?)

I don’t have one. I was throwing the ball in your court since you’re me anyway and I couldn’t think of a non-triggering neutral word and anyway that’s not St Germaine to this topic anyway, so, forget I mentioned it.

So we are the walrus. "I am he. As you are he. As you are me. And we are all together"

Why do good girls want bad boys? Well there are tons of books on the subject by experts like Megan Fox. Machine Gun Kelly is a pretty boy, and a pretty bad boy apparently. Yeah, I could write a book or four too, lol.

I actually have an entire theory about this regarding a man's 'inner feminine' and a woman's 'inner masculine'. Jung's theory 'anima and animus' but I take it to a different place. Before I write anything, I must scrutinize whether or not it is a 'good' place, not just different.

Good need not apply. It’s the shadow place. I think this is as good a place as any. So let’s hear what ya got, fearless soul that you are. You show me your theory and I’ll show you mine. (Ooh la la!)

I don't even know if there IS a good place or bad place, or if they're all just places and we designate them as good/bad.

See above.

 

[jacygirl]

I don’t have one. I was throwing the ball in your court since you’re me anyway and I couldn’t think of a non-triggering neutral word and anyway that’s not St Germaine to this topic anyway, so, forget I mentioned it.


Good need not apply. It’s the shadow place. I think this is as good a place as any. So let’s hear what ya got, fearless soul that you are. You show me your theory and I’ll show you mine. (Ooh la la!)


See above.

Forget what?
Leave St. Germaine outta this. Don't get me on a saints and sinners track. I see your tactics, oh yes I do.
Fearless soul. Sucking up might just work. Compliments are always welcome.
Of course you would ask me to show you mine first. Typical. *dramatic eye roll*

Okay, I mean I'm not prepared but I like to fly by the seat of my pants. Do you want the: your inner other gender is actually your twin flame and we are all looking on the outside for out partner to make us complete...but that part of you is already inside waiting to be acknowledge...and merged...into one complete being. Only then are you truly ready to have a partner on the outside (mate/spouse).
*gasps for air*

Or do you want the other one that leads in with gender confusion based on emotions, thoughts regarding conflicting male/female interests, mannerisms, sexual partner preference...and that one can lead into some pretty epic emotional brouhaha...so best to avoid posting it on social media. As Offspring sings, "the kids aren't okay".

You are, by the way, inspiring me to think and I appreciate that. You're like my muse for now.
That works because I am definitely amused.

 

[BHelmet]

Forget what?
Leave St. Germaine outta this. Don't get me on a saints and sinners track. I see your tactics, oh yes I do.
Fearless soul. Sucking up might just work. Compliments are always welcome.
Of course you would ask me to show you mine first. Typical. *dramatic eye roll*

You’re funny.

Okay, I mean I'm not prepared but I like to fly by the seat of my pants. Do you want the: your inner other gender is actually your twin flame and we are all looking on the outside for out partner to make us complete...but that part of you is already inside waiting to be acknowledge...and merged...into one complete being. Only then are you truly ready to have a partner on the outside (mate/spouse).
*gasps for air*

No. Got that.

Or do you want the other one that leads in with gender confusion based on emotions, thoughts regarding conflicting male/female interests, mannerisms, sexual partner preference...and that one can lead into some pretty epic emotional brouhaha...so best to avoid posting it on social media. As Offspring sings, "the kids aren't okay".

No, not that either. That’s more like the swamp after we fall in.

You are, by the way, inspiring me to think and I appreciate that. You're like my muse for now.
That works because I am definitely amused.

Sigh, then I guess I better go first. If only to prove my coy strategizing inner femme is not dominating my hapless animus who needs to validate his worth by pursuing the piece of char-broiled steak dangling from the stick in front of him. (Carrots not gonna do it)

I’ll need some time though. The power has been off here and it’s too hot to go outside so I have been following right along tit for tat to “kill time”. Power just came back on so I have stuff to do like recharge my Solar battery that was running the fridge and other things around the house. Err, palatial mobile extravaganza. (Manufactured home: nice euphemism for an aluminum cracker box)

 

[jacygirl]

You’re funny.



No. Got that.



No, not that either. That’s more like the swamp after we fall in.



Sigh, then I guess I better go first. If only to prove my coy strategizing inner femme is not dominating my hapless animus who needs to validate his worth by pursuing the piece of char-broiled steak dangling from the stick in front of him. (Carrots not gonna do it)

I’ll need some time though. The power has been off here and it’s too hot to go outside so I have been following right along tit for tat to “kill time”. Power just came back on so I have stuff to do like recharge my Solar battery that was running the fridge and other things around the house. Err, palatial mobile extravaganza. (Manufactured home: nice euphemism for an aluminum cracker box)

You're funny too.
I absolutely understand your situation. Having suffered many power outages at my present abode, I wish you a speedy recovery. Not sure how I feel to be your "kill time tit for tatter", but quite honestly it killed time for me too. I should forage for food now.
I look forward to hearing your most superior theory. I can't wait to see who wins, your coy strategizing inner femme or the hapless animus. Can I place a bet? Later Gator!!

 

[BHelmet]

LOL. The animus tends to let the femme win because he tends to be a delusional romantic sap. Actually that’s just another BS story. They take turns, so, nobody is completely fulfilled or gets a big head. Whatever. My theory is just a hypothesis. I wrote it down somewhere. I’ll have to see if I still agree with myself.

 

[jacygirl]

LOL. The animus tends to let the femme win because he tends to be a delusional romantic sap. Actually that’s just another BS story. They take turns, so, nobody is completely fulfilled or gets a big head. Whatever. My theory is just a hypothesis. I wrote it down somewhere. I’ll have to see if I still agree with myself.

Ugh. Doncha just love it when you start disagreeing with yourself because you can see another perspective...? Yeah me either.
Delusional romantic saps never seem to get fulfilled, hence my second theory (but who's counting?).
Big heads are for big....hats.
Hypothesis is good. Most of my best work comes from a hypothesis.
I am patient, I will wait with eager anticipation. (I have to, I'm far too exhausted to stalk you for information)

 

[jacygirl]

LOL. The animus tends to let the femme win because he tends to be a delusional romantic sap. Actually that’s just another BS story. They take turns, so, nobody is completely fulfilled or gets a big head. Whatever. My theory is just a hypothesis. I wrote it down somewhere. I’ll have to see if I still agree with myself.

Just to let you know, if you are on and off the site while contending with life, I hope you feel free to respond to other threads if you want to. I won't be pouting that "you're ignoring me!", I promise.
My friend, who was coming to visit, just cancelled so I will be hanging out here...playing music and participating if I see something worthy, lol. (whole afternoon was me here waiting for her unpredictable arrival but it is what it is)

 

[BHelmet]

Playing? Piano? record player? Guitar? Kazoo?
Finger Symbols?

 

[jacygirl]

Playing? Piano? record player? Guitar? Kazoo?
Finger Symbols?

I wish. Any of your suggestions are better, to be honest.
In Canada (Ontario), in school...we were forced to learn to play (wait for it)...the 'Recorder'. Forced. Like that instrument ever inspired anyone to pursue music? Can it even be called an instrument? I mean, you can buy one for under $10. They call it a wind instrument, but you cannot buy a new clarinet or oboe for under $10.
The only decent song you can play on a recorder is the snake charmer song.
So, to answer your question...I am playing the snake charmer song on my recorder. Charming snakes seems to be a theme in my life...go figure.
Years later, still in school...in music classes we all actually had to learn to play a real instrument. My teacher assigned me a huge heavy brass instrument. So not cool. It seemed the entire universe was conspiring to sustain my geek/dork status. It literally took a lot of effort to end up as cool as I am today.

 

[BHelmet]

It’s never too late to begin. There are some cheapo 3 stringed instruments that are fun and relatively simple to make a sound to soothe the inner savage (distracted, antsy, stressed) inner beast. But yeah, plastic recorder, those clay Peruvian tourist flutes, Jews Harp… there are plenty of discouraging starter instruments that deter more than inspire.

So, 3 string dulcimers, cheap used autoharp, Loog (bad name/marketing dept) makes an interesting looking 3 string kiddie starter instrument. YMMV. There are lots of ethnic 3 stringers too. Things you have to blow into are not my thing. The pitch is important-like what frequencies resonate with your soul? EG, the Loogie sounds a bit like a 3 stringed Ukelele which is not everyone’s cup of tea for a sound. Dulcimers can have longer strings/scale so lower more grounding notes are possible. Whatevs. Too much info. Bottom line: cheap and easy AND sounds good/satisfying is a tall order.

Yet another side thread.

 

[jacygirl]

It’s never too late to begin. There are some cheapo 3 stringed instruments that are fun and relatively simple to make a sound to soothe the inner savage (distracted, antsy, stressed) inner beast. But yeah, plastic recorder, those clay Peruvian tourist flutes, Jews Harp… there are plenty of discouraging starter instruments that deter more than inspire.

So, 3 string dulcimers, cheap used autoharp, Loog (bad name/marketing dept) makes an interesting looking 3 string kiddie starter instrument. YMMV. There are lots of ethnic 3 stringers too. Things you have to blow into are not my thing. The pitch is important-like what frequencies resonate with your soul? EG, the Loogie sounds a bit like a 3 stringed Ukelele which is not everyone’s cup of tea for a sound. Dulcimers can have longer strings/scale so lower more grounding notes are possible. Whatevs. Too much info. Bottom line: cheap and easy AND sounds good/satisfying is a tall order.

Yet another side thread.

Spoken like a musician, lol...I'm assuming you play something stringed?
My first husband was a guitarist/drummer, our son is a ridiculously talented guitarist. Both tried to teach me at times but I was too busy with family to commit. A music teacher once told me I had "piano playing hands" (long and slender), but I had friends who took piano lessons (for years), and again commitment issues, lol.
I am now too poor to purchase anything, even a recorder...so I play music to listen to on my tablet...and if I must play something...there are always spoons.

 

[BHelmet]

Vewwy Funny. Most annoying noise maker: Recorder; Ukulele (apologies to Senor K), Banjo, Spoons; Jews Harp; Kazoo; Maracas…? Sounds like a Poll question. Like fingernails on blackboard or acrylic nails on nylon hosiery? (Nails on nylons instantly splits my head and makes my eyes bug out)

Ok I’m over-exaggerating. All these “instruments” have their time and place, I know.

As for music and raising a fam, I used to love playing slack key on an old resonator at night in our 1930’s plantation house (all wood single-wall Japanese style construction which accentuated the sound wonderfully) when my kids were falling asleep. A lullaby along with the coqui frogs. (People from Puerto Rico and Hawaii will know the sound of chirping coqui frogs)

 

[jacygirl]

Spoons are in the annoying classification? But..but..I've played the spoons. In-laws family get together sing-a-long either-you-play-or-you-sing. So I learned to play the spoons real fast.

Yes, calm down. I just described a very necessary time and place.

You played your kids a lullaby' and the coqui frogs accompanied you? (I'm not sobbing now!) That sounds so beautiful.
When my son was born (first kid), I didn't know any baby lullaby songs. So I rocked him and sang him Beatles' songs. He's musical and a Beatles' fan so I guess it didn't damage him. Good thing I didn't bail out and play him the spoons, eh?

 

[BHelmet]

OK I said I'd do this so I will keep my word. This is swamp-like conjecture and theorizing. A friend and I put it together. A good song representing the question is Joe Jackson's "Is She Really Going Out With Him?"

Caveat: this "take" will be potentially triggering. (Not for you, Jacygirl, of course!) It's shadow stuff. There is a reverse version of rusty bulldozers sunken in subconscious mud where guys are concerned too, I realize. I don't mean to be picking on women. There are women I know who are liberated from this. Part of this theory stems from the notion that developmental trauma is inevitable: another pitfall baked into the cake of this existence.

When we are young, at some stage, parental approval is huge, and that first time we blurt something "wrong" out or intentionally heave a crystal vase onto the concrete because we think it is funny, we get reprimanded and that approval goes away. (no diff for guys or girls) And that is where the mayhem begins. The child's mind and emotions go on a self-destructive rampage from this curve ball. (they don't love me anymore)

Anyway - here goes...

Thesis/Observation/Question: Why do (some) women (at various times/and some women all the time) gravitate and "fall for" men who treat them badly? (Bad Boys)

I'll get right to the conclusion: Because the behavior of these men reflects, validates and amplifies the negative self-image of those women. (Programming)

The negative self-image has plenty of sources - Not living up to Idealized Barbie Perfection; over-amplified parental disapproval, feeling inferior to other females in the competitive arena, Negative messages from the media, movies and music industry. Not living up to religious standards. The list is endless and I am sure you could add more - this is just the obvious idea. We all fight with an inner negative self-talk at times.

The fallout is that a crappy relationship with a "bad boy", mirrors this and reinforces it. "This is the best I can do, because, deep down inside, I am pretty sure I suck as a person, so I am getting what I deserve."

A fascinating aspect to any of these interpersonal dynamics is the fact there are huge payoffs for setting things up in a negative way.

1. A negative self image is a great justification for irresponsible behavior and blaming our partner for the crap content of our life.
2. You don't have to be responsible for how you feel either - you can blame others. (when I say you, I mean me, too. Anyone really)
3. And if you feel like you are being treated badly, you can do whatever the hell you want, yourself!
4. Martyrdom, of course, is another. These are just examples - the key is that for every supposedly bad situation, there is a payoff we get out of it that keeps us addicted. My crappy life is not my fault! It is all because of that other A-hole! In order to rise above, we have to recognize and let go of the payoffs.

Lastly - what's the way out? There isn't one, really! Those inner negative conversations (the temptations of the devil) are always going to crop up from time to time no matter how "enlightened" you are! (At least in 3D STS Land.) So, the trick is to create a context larger than the negative conversations which will allow more freedom to be, and allow us to see the wheels and gears when they kick in and have some perspective on it. Standing outside the machine and its programs is always the order of the day.

I realize I have popped open a family-size big box store mega can of worms. The lid can go right back on. It's always there. I am addressing this as a conversation with you, not so much a "hey y'all" kind of thing. (of course the more the merrier, so they say, but I am not sure I agree) So far, we seem to be seeing eye to eye in an odd way, so I am anticipating you taking this in stride with some valuable insights to share on it. It is an intense topic. I'd be curious about your thought on the good guys with bad girls aspect. Is it the same in reverse?

Whew, done!

PS - you know what, let's just drop it! LOL!!

 

[jacygirl]

OK I said I'd do this so I will keep my word. This is swamp-like conjecture and theorizing. A friend and I put it together. A good song representing the question is Joe Jackson's "Is She Really Going Out With Him?"

Caveat: this "take" will be potentially triggering. (Not for you, Jacygirl, of course!) It's shadow stuff. There is a reverse version of rusty bulldozers sunken in subconscious mud where guys are concerned too, I realize. I don't mean to be picking on women. There are women I know who are liberated from this. Part of this theory stems from the notion that developmental trauma is inevitable: another pitfall baked into the cake of this existence.

When we are young, at some stage, parental approval is huge, and that first time we blurt something "wrong" out or intentionally heave a crystal vase onto the concrete because we think it is funny, we get reprimanded and that approval goes away. (no diff for guys or girls) And that is where the mayhem begins. The child's mind and emotions go on a self-destructive rampage from this curve ball. (they don't love me anymore)

Anyway - here goes...

Thesis/Observation/Question: Why do (some) women (at various times/and some women all the time) gravitate and "fall for" men who treat them badly? (Bad Boys)

I'll get right to the conclusion: Because the behavior of these men reflects, validates and amplifies the negative self-image of those women. (Programming)

The negative self-image has plenty of sources - Not living up to Idealized Barbie Perfection; over-amplified parental disapproval, feeling inferior to other females in the competitive arena, Negative messages from the media, movies and music industry. Not living up to religious standards. The list is endless and I am sure you could add more - this is just the obvious idea. We all fight with an inner negative self-talk at times.

The fallout is that a crappy relationship with a "bad boy", mirrors this and reinforces it. "This is the best I can do, because, deep down inside, I am pretty sure I suck as a person, so I am getting what I deserve."

A fascinating aspect to any of these interpersonal dynamics is the fact there are huge payoffs for setting things up in a negative way.

1. A negative self image is a great justification for irresponsible behavior and blaming our partner for the crap content of our life.
2. You don't have to be responsible for how you feel either - you can blame others. (when I say you, I mean me, too. Anyone really)
3. And if you feel like you are being treated badly, you can do whatever the hell you want, yourself!
4. Martyrdom, of course, is another. These are just examples - the key is that for every supposedly bad situation, there is a payoff we get out of it that keeps us addicted. My crappy life is not my fault! It is all because of that other A-hole! In order to rise above, we have to recognize and let go of the payoffs.

Lastly - what's the way out? There isn't one, really! Those inner negative conversations (the temptations of the devil) are always going to crop up from time to time no matter how "enlightened" you are! (At least in 3D STS Land.) So, the trick is to create a context larger than the negative conversations which will allow more freedom to be, and allow us to see the wheels and gears when they kick in and have some perspective on it. Standing outside the machine and its programs is always the order of the day.

I realize I have popped open a family-size big box store mega can of worms. The lid can go right back on. It's always there. I am addressing this as a conversation with you, not so much a "hey y'all" kind of thing. (of course the more the merrier, so they say, but I am not sure I agree) So far, we seem to be seeing eye to eye in an odd way, so I am anticipating you taking this in stride with some valuable insights to share on it. It is an intense topic. I'd be curious about your thought on the good guys with bad girls aspect. Is it the same in reverse?

Whew, done!

PS - you know what, let's just drop it! LOL!!

Sorry if my toe tapping was getting on your nerves. I was hoping you would still post your conjecture and theorizing. (And you did!)

I do agree with what you've written. I think the dynamic of our birth family, relationships with parents, siblings, extended family (if any), all has an effect on who we grow into. These are our first examples/role models. Obviously they have very positive or negative (or both) impact on how we begin to navigate our own relationships throughout our lives. I don't think that certain results are the only results though. We can consciously choose not to be like our parents (their marriage/relationship & parenting skills)...or we can unconsciously follow on their rather unsuccessful path.

I am not offended if you want to describe heinous women. I've known a few myself. I'm also not a man-hater, I will make the jokes but I've known some remarkable outstanding men in my life...I even made one myself, lol.

I do think that most people grow up following unhealthy patterns without being aware that this is what they're doing. Deflecting blame, drinking/drugs, temper/abuse, abandoning, being abandoned...I can go on but you know what I mean. A life of strife and they may never understand why or how to change things.

Good girls are attracted to bad boys for many reasons. The same with good boys and bad girls. Do they subconsciously remind you of a stern/abusive father or mother? Is this the dynamic of your parents' relationship? Does the good girl get sick of being in her happy shiny good 'box' and want to take a walk/ride on the wild/free-er side of life? Do many believe that 'love hurts' or they should do anything for love, so they take it and keep trying to love him/her better? So many options, eh? So many reasons, I think.

You can open any can of worms you like with me, lol. Worms don't make me queasy. Just no spiders please. Please!?

You wanna know what I've noticed with the long term happy marriages that I've known personally...who are still together and happy? In each case, there was no boss. They took turns according to their strengths. Communication. Commitment. But I did notice that, for the most part, the wife was more alpha, in as much as she 'seemed' to run the roost. But in their homes with them, it became clear that when they were together they worked like a well oiled machine.

So, as we do seem to see eye to eye...I agree that we are both correct. I don't think you can narrow it down to one or two particular causes or reasons. I think the reasons are various and how they manifest in each child/grown up is unique depending on the strength and weaknesses of the child. And on that note, I would like to thank y'all for coming to our Ted Talk!!