Boardlurker? Read this!!
- Thread starter Vulcan59
- Start date
shijing
The Living Force
Hi tom32071 --
This happens to me a lot too -- maybe you can try to keep a notepad with you and write things down as they come to you? You might not get everything you want to write about, but even if you get a few, it's a start.
I was just reading some of the sessions last week where you were present, in 1995 or 1996 -- since you are participating here, it's nice to be able to put a "name" with a "face," so to speak.
That at least puts you ahead in the game, compared to so many people who think they know what they actually don't. It can take a lot of work to unlearn things that you have been taught are true and really aren't, and then try to figure out what's actually true. The effort is important -- we aren't ever going to figure it all out in this lifetime, but I think every little bit still counts, as the most fundamentally important thing we have to do is to gain knowledge and apply it.
I'm glad to hear that. It can be tough a lot of the time, but the more you do it, the easier it becomes, I think. It's also a good exercise in willpower (and organization, if you're busy) to hold yourself accountable for participating regularly. I hope to see more of you :)
tom32071 said:
This happens to me a lot too -- maybe you can try to keep a notepad with you and write things down as they come to you? You might not get everything you want to write about, but even if you get a few, it's a start.
tom32071 said:
I was just reading some of the sessions last week where you were present, in 1995 or 1996 -- since you are participating here, it's nice to be able to put a "name" with a "face," so to speak.
tom32071 said:
That at least puts you ahead in the game, compared to so many people who think they know what they actually don't. It can take a lot of work to unlearn things that you have been taught are true and really aren't, and then try to figure out what's actually true. The effort is important -- we aren't ever going to figure it all out in this lifetime, but I think every little bit still counts, as the most fundamentally important thing we have to do is to gain knowledge and apply it.
tom32071 said:
I'm glad to hear that. It can be tough a lot of the time, but the more you do it, the easier it becomes, I think. It's also a good exercise in willpower (and organization, if you're busy) to hold yourself accountable for participating regularly. I hope to see more of you :)
primechild
Jedi
Thank you Vulcan59 (pause why?) for starting this thread! (why?) finally made me get off my lazy butt and figure out why fourm wasn't letting me log in. (and because that was really dumb excuse) look at myself and figure out all the reasons why I stopped posting or why I didn't post before tech issues. contents (# means order it was written)
2. Lurker Technical difficulties
3. Thank you
1. Consequenses of being a lurker
(crying while writing this line) 4. list of why I don't post
4. Why Post reminder list
OMG if you made it this far into my ramblings I hope there was something useful in it. (back to top to write tech difficulties)[anchor=con]list of why I don't post [/anchor]
- logging in [is] an act of courage - aleana
- i'm afraid to look as someone who seeks attention. - sitta
- this has been said before - rhys
- I don't feel like I have anything to add - Axis Mundi
- the regular posters are way ahead of me on the learning curve - Redrock12
- failing utterly because I cannot put my thoughts in words and I give up - Snow
- don't want to post for the sake of posting and contribute noise - Flashgordonv
- told myself I would work on myself, then ended up quite misdirected, intermittantly lurking - mechanimated
- I'm not "good enough" to participate - tendrini
- the predator in you ...is scaring you - gandalf
- brings up a lot feelings that I would rather not have or acknowledge: self pity, pride, anger -tendrini
- It's not like when you're speaking and you can read others' expressions and they can read yours and there is less chance of misunderstanding. - tendrini
- it's painful to remember- sitta
[anchor=lurker]Why Post reminder list[/anchor] (going to read before checking sott too)
- You are good enough to participate - anart
- your participation is needed - anart
- What you have to say has value - truth seeker
- we are all here to help each other - Gandalf
- community for everyone to get to know each other and build relationships and a real network - Perceval
- simple interactions and sharing of simple understandings from each of our unique viewpoints - ""
- the goal is to demolish [our personality] anyway and to let in its place something genuine grow - Psalehesost
- line by line deconstruction [of posts] - tendrini, I like that part!
- I want to [transform] myself. With my fear, with my laziness, with my anger, with my shortcomings, with my pain. - sitta
- To learn and see you have to interact - Azure
- Those individuals who still think that you can get something for nothing will find themselves blocked - Cass/Vulcan59
- He who sits on fence gets splinters - ""
- I do have something to contribute, and will never realize the value unless it is offered - stowaway
- stop over-thinking & undermining myself - amelopsis (that's going to be a challenge for me to overcome)
ConfessionI used to look down upon/misunderstand people with alcohol/over-counter drug problems.
Now I don't. I may never know how it feels like with drugs/alcohol but I know how it feels like with trying not to eat Wheat, Dairy & Sugar. Craving it, Wanting it and giving in to it. These are drugs except there isn't a stigma to using these. Reminds me of THX1138 where the entire society is drugged.
I learned much with this gluten-free, soy, corn, dairy, msg, corn syrup free diet. It's hard to say no when someone just baked from scratch homemade pie or blue ribbon prize winning cookies made by a little girl scout that I lead.
I've also learned Why people in general (the ones that are more asleep than I am) would just want to give up and not face reality, knowingly hurting themselves (some think they don't but Inside they know something is wrong and don't have the motivation to do anything about it or don't know how) Working on myself not to judge.
Tarri said:
Thank you Tarri for your posts I just realized that is what I have been feeling since June last year.
P.S. a few months ago I started with Eiriu Eolas Breathing practice mp3s. In my townhouse not good idea i was afraid that the neighboors would camo over wanting to know if I was ok. Later I tried at the lake house where my mom & grandma wanted to know if I was ok and wanting to calm me down. Solutions I thought of so far: Tell mom & grandma is an personal growth excercise or convert a room with noise recuction cover windows in townhouse? ack search engines can read this... definetly figuring out how to change member name at least the display one.
ack! thunder I better post before something happens
edited: formatting for easier reading, finished code for quotes, formatted lists, next time I'll use the spell checker
Thank you Gandalf for modify post for me.
henry
The Cosmic Force
Tom and primechild, we can spend a lot of time lurking, but it isn't time wasted if we can watch ourselves while we are doing it. Of course, it shouldn't become an excuse to continue lurking. :)
But if we can identify the excuses we are making, it can be a good first step in learning about ourselves, about how our machine operates. It is good to see you both trying to get a handle on it. Looking forward to hearing more from both of you. :)
But if we can identify the excuses we are making, it can be a good first step in learning about ourselves, about how our machine operates. It is good to see you both trying to get a handle on it. Looking forward to hearing more from both of you. :)
Wunjo
Padawan Learner
I am a board lurker. I didn't really realize this until I decided to lurk through the the section about Lurking. Thank you everyone for your comments on the subject, thank you kokiri for posting your groupings of lists. I have been a lurker for two main reasons I've identified so far. I have one personality that is addicted to perfection and seeing that I have nothing along that nature to contribute decided to hand the buck off to the personality addicted to being insecure and his buddy the personality addicted to fear of attack, and so on. There is also the personality addicted to justifying my behaviors regarding the subject, using the notion of there being so much information to digest from people who are on track with the Work, who has time to post? Observing myself having these attachments to these notions is a good anchor fro noticing mechanicalness for a quick wake up. I will post more, thank you again.
truth seeker
The Living Force
Glad you decided to start posting more Wunjo! :)
tom32071 said:
Are you afraid that the same thing might happen here? If so, I don't think there is any reason to be afraid. I'm not saying that people will not misunderstand you here, but if there is a misunderstanding we all can figure it out, if we explain it to each other. It's all about sincerity. In the real world when people misunderstand each other, they're mostly not even aware of it or just let it be or otherwise. But here, if someone has misunderstood you, you can just quote that person and explain why you think s/he has misunderstood you and you could then try to explain your thoughts better.
Mostly when someone has misunderstood me, I try to look at myself first, see if I could've written or said something better. So I usually don't put the "blame" on the other.
If we never practice with how to communicate "correctly" then there isn't much space for growth. I also think that participating will help you with seeing how to be more externally considerate with writing (and maybe speaking as well). Basically we're all learning together and there is no reason to be afraid. All there is is lessons.
tom32071 said:
Here's something interesting Ark once wrote:
"I don't know. I know very little. But one of the very few things that I do know is that I am always thirsty for new knowledge, so I am spending every free minute to learn more and more and more. And the more I learn, the more I realize how deep is my ignorance. And then I smile, I thank God for giving me this opportunity, and I continue .... Perhaps it is not such a bad method?"
tom32071 said:
You don't have to believe in them, we (I assume) don't either. I think it's great that you open up the possibility. Here's another quote:
"And so, let me repeat: who wants to believe - let them believe. But I do not want to believe, I want to know."
(An old philosopher in "The lost future" by K. Borun and A. Trepka, SF novel - in Polish)
I'm looking forward to interact with you, Wunjo, kokiri and others :D
zhenqing
Jedi
I must thank you greatly, Vulcan59 and all of you, wonderful people, who contributed to making this thread. You made me realized that I'm indeed a lurker. Not only to this forum. I was being a lurker all my life.
After reding those thirteen pages, what amaze me the most is the fact that we all share/d the same/similar fears. I, too, was afraid of posting for the reasons that many of you had. Thinking that I have nothing important to contribute, that everything was shared before and I would only add noise. That I still know to little to even speak. That I can't express myself properly, English being my second language. And maybe the main reason was that I felt that deep down I was not good enough.
In my twenty four years of life, there were only few people who were interested with things I wanted to say, in knowing my view of reality, and my feelings. And they were mostly random. My mother loved me (at least, the only way she know) but she never wanted to understand me when I was a child/teenager. She didn't know how, and I suppose she felt her life was so miserable and complicated back then, taking a while to talk to her daughter without prejudice and nervousness was to much to handle. My father, on the other hand was an alcoholic who tended to being aggressive (mostly verbally) when he felt intimidated - and I really frightened him with my straightforward behavior and ability to tell the truth to persons face. So, it was only understandable that he didn't know how to love me, care for me and appreciate me. Similar scenarios played all my life. Either I had friends, who told me they liked me, but they only wanted something from me (love, attention, me being their psychologist for free, etc - and never bother to return the favor), or I had people bullied me, because they were afraid of me/ my proud and bold attitude pissed them of (yes, I wasn't the easiest person to be with). Through those years of painful experiences I've become more silent, more fake in expressing my true self, more secluded. I've started to observing things and people, but not really participated in anything. I created my own world and shut myself inside.
I don't even know when I've developed this state of almost paranoia, that people, whom I didn't even know (a mere pedestrians in some cases) are constantly watching me, scrutinizing me, judging me.
And even though I recognized many talents in myself, I realized at some point that I don't believe I posses a real worth. I did not believed in myself at all - and it showed. I couldn't even looked a man in the eyes (I was so afraid of things I might see in them).
It was only recently that I realized, that it's not other people fault that I fell like a victim and my life is a mess. It's my own fault. I choose self-pity instead of making a decision to do something about it. I didn't make an effort. I was too passive - the only time when I was truly active was that one year, when I was fighting my liver cancer (a malignant one).
It was Laura's work, which helped me to start working on my issues, to begin to see the constant presence of predator in my mind, my programs; and to understand my depression. It's been only two years, but it has really changed me and for that I'm grateful beyond words. Saying this, I must confess I did not believed much in networking. I thought that doing the Work alone will provide me with all necessary tools and I don't need other people. I was severely wrong (though it's another story why I come to this conclusion). I finally realize that all my life I missed the feeling of being part of group, which support each other, care about each other, and what's the most important - pursue the same objective. And I really need someone, who can show me (with as much objectivity as he can) rights and wrongs of my thinking. I obviously can't do it alone. And if - while still learning myself - I could somehow help other people, it would make me truly happy.
That's all from me for now, but I'm going to post as frequently as I can. And as always, I hope my English in understandable enough (I have some grammar problems
).
I'm looking forward to get to know all of you.
Btw, it was the longest post I ever written in english.
After reding those thirteen pages, what amaze me the most is the fact that we all share/d the same/similar fears. I, too, was afraid of posting for the reasons that many of you had. Thinking that I have nothing important to contribute, that everything was shared before and I would only add noise. That I still know to little to even speak. That I can't express myself properly, English being my second language. And maybe the main reason was that I felt that deep down I was not good enough.
In my twenty four years of life, there were only few people who were interested with things I wanted to say, in knowing my view of reality, and my feelings. And they were mostly random. My mother loved me (at least, the only way she know) but she never wanted to understand me when I was a child/teenager. She didn't know how, and I suppose she felt her life was so miserable and complicated back then, taking a while to talk to her daughter without prejudice and nervousness was to much to handle. My father, on the other hand was an alcoholic who tended to being aggressive (mostly verbally) when he felt intimidated - and I really frightened him with my straightforward behavior and ability to tell the truth to persons face. So, it was only understandable that he didn't know how to love me, care for me and appreciate me. Similar scenarios played all my life. Either I had friends, who told me they liked me, but they only wanted something from me (love, attention, me being their psychologist for free, etc - and never bother to return the favor), or I had people bullied me, because they were afraid of me/ my proud and bold attitude pissed them of (yes, I wasn't the easiest person to be with). Through those years of painful experiences I've become more silent, more fake in expressing my true self, more secluded. I've started to observing things and people, but not really participated in anything. I created my own world and shut myself inside.
I don't even know when I've developed this state of almost paranoia, that people, whom I didn't even know (a mere pedestrians in some cases) are constantly watching me, scrutinizing me, judging me.
And even though I recognized many talents in myself, I realized at some point that I don't believe I posses a real worth. I did not believed in myself at all - and it showed. I couldn't even looked a man in the eyes (I was so afraid of things I might see in them).
It was only recently that I realized, that it's not other people fault that I fell like a victim and my life is a mess. It's my own fault. I choose self-pity instead of making a decision to do something about it. I didn't make an effort. I was too passive - the only time when I was truly active was that one year, when I was fighting my liver cancer (a malignant one).
It was Laura's work, which helped me to start working on my issues, to begin to see the constant presence of predator in my mind, my programs; and to understand my depression. It's been only two years, but it has really changed me and for that I'm grateful beyond words. Saying this, I must confess I did not believed much in networking. I thought that doing the Work alone will provide me with all necessary tools and I don't need other people. I was severely wrong (though it's another story why I come to this conclusion). I finally realize that all my life I missed the feeling of being part of group, which support each other, care about each other, and what's the most important - pursue the same objective. And I really need someone, who can show me (with as much objectivity as he can) rights and wrongs of my thinking. I obviously can't do it alone. And if - while still learning myself - I could somehow help other people, it would make me truly happy.
That's all from me for now, but I'm going to post as frequently as I can. And as always, I hope my English in understandable enough (I have some grammar problems
).I'm looking forward to get to know all of you.
Btw, it was the longest post I ever written in english.
Hi zhenqing,
First of all, your english is just fine. :) Your whole post was very understandable.
This is a great step in conquering your programs, your predator, that are keeping your from networking. And you are right, you really cannot do the Work alone. You need that network of like-minded people, who have your best interests at heart, to help you see your programs and help you to Work on yourself.
I'm just wondering if you've had a chance to read the
Narcissism "Big Five", yet? They are a great help in getting to the bottom of our programs and helping us to overcome them. But you have to not only read them, but apply them to yourself while reading them.
I am hoping to see more of you around.
First of all, your english is just fine. :) Your whole post was very understandable.
This is a great step in conquering your programs, your predator, that are keeping your from networking. And you are right, you really cannot do the Work alone. You need that network of like-minded people, who have your best interests at heart, to help you see your programs and help you to Work on yourself.
I'm just wondering if you've had a chance to read the
Narcissism "Big Five", yet? They are a great help in getting to the bottom of our programs and helping us to overcome them. But you have to not only read them, but apply them to yourself while reading them.
I am hoping to see more of you around.
zhenqing
Jedi
Thank you for your kind comments, Nienna Eluch, dugdeep :)
I've not become familiar with this material yet, but Narcissism "Big Five" (among other necessary readings) is definitely at the top of my booklist.
Staying at home for another four weeks because of my broken leg, I guess I will have enough time to finally fill the holes of my knowledge in that area.
Nienna Eluch said:
I've not become familiar with this material yet, but Narcissism "Big Five" (among other necessary readings) is definitely at the top of my booklist.
Staying at home for another four weeks because of my broken leg, I guess I will have enough time to finally fill the holes of my knowledge in that area.
zhenqing said:
Hi zhenqing,
I'm glad you want to start posting more, and congratulations on beating your cancer. If you would like to share your story about networking, we'd love to hear it. Welcome! And yes, your English is just fine. :)
Herondancer
primechild
Jedi
zhenqing said:
I just realized that too. I do remember when it actually crystallized was when I wanted someone to TAGteach (Teaching with Acoustical Guidance) with and try techniques from Don't Shoot the Dog behavior book (methods for reinforcement of behavior, animal to human), breaking down the behavior step by step but you have to have someone else there to tell you when you are doing it right. Doing it by yourself is so much harder.
Your English is wonderful.
