Boardlurker? Read this!!

For me, posting was and sometimes still is about sticking my hand out... if I am thinking clearly then someone will take my hand. If I am awry then my hand will get smacked. I used to be afraid of the latter on this forum but now I know it is a benificial shock to help me awaken or be aware of some aspect of myself I cant see.
 
Nienna Eluch - Your totally right. I started thinking about what you said and how my inner demon/predator holds me back. And i think it would scare me to let go of it, to break free from it. Im so used to it. I think ive developed an internal relationship with it, similar to a child with an abusive parent. It keeps me safe.
As long as its there, nothing great will happen in my life, but ill probably survive. But thats not living, and ill never reach my potential in this incarnation.
 
melatonin, I could swear that if you keep on reading here on the forum and interacting in any way you can, the results are going to be more then you could expect. There is ONE thing I didn't know in the beginning here and that is, just how important ARE posts like yours and others that may think they have nothing interesting to say. You may not understand this fully until you yourself begin to thank the others for projecting you a mirror that would otherwise be unavailable. What I believe is that if what you say comes from the heart and you sincerely want to know more about yourself, then there is no wrong road. While you may hold the idea that you have nothing "super" to say ,like I did and do, that is only your perception and yours alone.
Hope this motivates a bit melatonin, since sometimes motivations is hard to get ;)
 
I've attempted to post a few times but each time find a way not to. It takes me awhile to formulate my thoughts and I have a tendency to be the person in a group, like in a meeting at work- to not say much if any at all and just listen and observe. The posts in this thread have really been helpful though and motivating so thank you. I feel self conscious even writing this but here goes... :)
 
Cleo said:
I've attempted to post a few times but each time find a way not to. It takes me awhile to formulate my thoughts and I have a tendency to be the person in a group, like in a meeting at work- to not say much if any at all and just listen and observe. The posts in this thread have really been helpful though and motivating so thank you. I feel self conscious even writing this but here goes... :)
Click to expand...

Nice job, Cleo! :)
 
As many have already written here, newbies lurk because we don't think we have anything to add, as we are still in intense learning mode; but also there are formal rules, I am not finding the pages very intuitive just yet, and we are told that if we have a question it has probably already been asked and answered. So bear with us, we will join you when we have something that feels it might be a relevant input. I might be a newbie here, but am middle aged and find things take me longer to learn than they used to when young; especially new ideas one is trying to fully absorb and integrate, while trying to also grow, learn and challenge oneself simultaneously.
 
monksgirl said:
As many have already written here, newbies lurk because we don't think we have anything to add, as we are still in intense learning mode; but also there are formal rules, I am not finding the pages very intuitive just yet, and we are told that if we have a question it has probably already been asked and answered. So bear with us, we will join you when we have something that feels it might be a relevant input. I might be a newbie here, but am middle aged and find things take me longer to learn than they used to when young; especially new ideas one is trying to fully absorb and integrate, while trying to also grow, learn and challenge oneself simultaneously.
Click to expand...
Just in case you're not aware of it, newbies are given consideration in terms of not knowing their way around. Perhaps one good place to start is with an introduction? It may help to view it as an opportunity to let others get to know who you are and also get a feel for how the members here respond. If you choose to post an intro, you'll be given information that may help you find your way around - a tour of the house. All of us here have had issues with self worth at one time or another and have found that when we give others a chance, positive things can come from it. :)
 
Hi,

When I started writing this post, I was gonna write something about why I do not post as often as I want to.
It would be reasons like being afraid of "negative" feedback, not feeling like a can contribute, I do not manage to cover all sides of a subject so that the post is coherent, I am an introvert so it is so much harder for me than it is for everyone else(would not have wrote that though, but still it is an annoying thought that pops up now and then).

I have read the wawe series, isotm, gnosis vol 1, 2 and other books from the recommended list. So I "think" I should have some ability to write and ask questions.

Since I found this forum and read some of the work of Laura and others, I feel that the learning curve has just continued reaching for the skies. I have also discovered that what I learned today, will be challenged by a new learning experience tomorrow.

However, there is one thing that got me thinking while writing this post after having to really think why I do not join discussions or post when I could.
Even if all those reasons already mentioned including many more is to be true to some degree, what I find by just sitting down and writing is that my focus is around the subject I am writing about.
In other words I can concentrate on that particular subject and stimulate thinking in a that direction (and if I post: even if it is wrong, I may be corrected and have a larger probability of detecting an erroneous conclusion than I would if being alone with my thoughts).

I have experienced some occasions where I have questions and would like to write, where farther out in the process I come up with a "satisfying" conclusion based on what members have already written or where I have remembered things I have read or contemplated in the past and feel like the post has little value anymore because it is so "logical" in my eyes, not comprehending that I probably am just hurting myself in the long run, and maybe others who may or may not see what I write as helpful.

So I find that just sitting down and start writing around a subject helps me conquer those thousand other thoughts swirling in my head, with both productive and non-productive origin.

After some contemplating about why I do not write for different reasons, the answer must be that they should not matter because I want to learn and grow, and that does not come easy anyway. Therefore I find that the conclusion of why I should write is what matters, rather than why I should not.

Further I see now that this is what actually is being advocated by this forum, namely networking.

So what I feel about how far I have come in my progress or how much I have read, has little value if I can not first contemplate it and discuss it with others, IMH0.

Before I start twisting and turning every written word it is suffice to say that,
after sitting down and having to think and direct my thoughts, the idea around networking finally appeared so "logical" in my eyes :)

But then again, what about yours? ;)

Hope this makes sense

Torstone
 
Hi Torstone

Torstone said:
So I find that just sitting down and start writing around a subject helps me conquer those thousand other thoughts swirling in my head, with both productive and non-productive origin.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good strategy to me, especially if it works for you.

Torstone said:
After some contemplating about why I do not write for different reasons, the answer must be that they should not matter because I want to learn and grow, and that does not come easy anyway. Therefore I find that the conclusion of why I should write is what matters, rather than why I should not.

Further I see now that this is what actually is being advocated by this forum, namely networking.

So what I feel about how far I have come in my progress or how much I have read, has little value if I can not first contemplate it and discuss it with others, IMH0.
Click to expand...

You have hit the nail on the head, writing about your experiences, good of otherwise, and networking this is what it is all about. Someone may pick up something of use to them in any of your posts.

Great post, and I look forward to more of your posts, and interacting with you in the future. :)
 
Thanks for the encouragement.

I have been working like a dog since the end of Sept to finish building a house for my wife and I. We are staying at a friends B&B (we are very lucky) and thing will get very busy starting in April... at which time we will need to vacate.

I look forward to greater participation this spring.
 
It was asked of the lurkers in general, possibly by Vulcan, why is it that they lurk? I thought, hey, I've been a lurker although I told myself I was just a quiet visitor on the sofa of the forum, problem is, if I look at that analogy more carefully, I was more of a quiet visitor sitting 'behind' the sofa!

Note these "reasons" come from the predators mind, but that is because I am cognizant of the fact the predators mind exists, but I realize more and more I sure am not able to see it very often (I probably think I see the predators mind rise up more than I actually do, and it most often goes unnoticed). Anyway I'll continue to explain some of my "reasons" for not getting involved:

"Reason 1 - gotta be ready first"
- I almost signed up in 2008, but I read the conditions, where it was suggested that Forum members are familiar with previous postings, and be familiar with various writings such as Gurdjieff and the Wave and others. I have said as an excuse that I "took this too seriously" - no Jefferson, you didn't network, you didn't listen to the group that you were lurking in, plain and simple.

Then I got this idea, that I have to be "ready" to sign up, to get "ready" to start doing the Work, and writing that seems ludicrous actually, as at the time I assumed by doing that reading, and not signing up, that I was doing some Work. But I intellectually knew from reading Gurdjieff, that Work can only be done in a network. Just because I was sharing these ideas one other person isn't a network. So even though I knew about the network, I didn't understand it, as I didn't use it. Well, Burma Jones told me straight that's "getting ready to do the Work" is nonsense - that was a lesson much needed. As I have carried this "pre-quantum future school" attitude up to very recently, as it is simple, you're either doing the Work, or not.

"Reason 2 - being a nuisance"
- signal to noise. This is a trap. The number one message has been to encourage people to get involved, when you start talking crap, it will be pointed out, if you are being too "noisy" it will be pointed out, and it can be corrected. As a lurker, I've seen it many of times. Nuthin to fear! However, I didn't listen to this, there's a stubborn, tenacious predator that that just doesn't listen at times. I felt (and still feel) that I had to have such well thought and researched posts before I posted anything. I smiled at the comment one of the moderators made one time asking a fairly verbose member to describe the difference between a "research forum" and a " internet discussion board". I smiled because it was to the point, non-threatening, and was an excellent way to have the forum member try to observe what he/she was doing. I thought, I can handle feedback, I wanna grow, it's the predator that can't take it!!

So for my ego, getting it pointed out to me that my postings were out of line or whatever I feared, was quite uncomfortable, to say the least, but for the longest time, I didn't think of it this way: I thought I was just getting "prepared". Sheesh. I ask myself, Jefferson, can you really learn to swim staring at the darn water??

Because I found the work of the network to be useful, I was thinking that I would be a nuisance and maybe I would somehow detract from it. Stupid eh, when I think a bout it. Just writing this, and expressing this reason makes the "reason" sound so absurd. I guess my persona and ego is so powerful that it could actually "detract" from this Work - yeah, ego does think quite highly of itself, don' it?

Also part of this "reason 2" is that I often felt nobody would really want to hear my story anyway (or poor predator, poor you, nobody likes you boo hoo), but the next week I would start thinking that " I have the greatest story ever!" - what did G say about being machines running on automatic most if not all of the time??

"Reason 3- no time"
- I have had extraordinary time constraints over the past few years but I know for sure I could have found time to post. I would say, "well I work so much on the computer anyway, I just can't start typing some posts that are useless (see "reason2"). I imagined all kinds of topics and posts and basically just entertained myself with all kinds of thoughts, but that is where they stayed. Well, I was lucky to have a friend to share these thoughts with over the years, but again 2 people is absolutely and completely not a network. So there was time to intellectually engage in this stuff, to read sott, read several books, most of the wave, and thats OK to read, but just think how good it would have been, back in late 2008, start posting about some of the stuff I was reading, and start to become acquainted with the network. Any lurkers reading this, best to just get involved now, nuthin to worry about here :-)

"Reason 4 - being found out by someone outside the Network"
- strategic enclosure can be taken too far, if I really knew what that term really means. Just an example on the side here, I was pointed out by Atreides how that I intellectually knew for example about G's writing on telling the truth, and that the situation needs to always be taken into account, and I proved some time ago that I totally blew that one, but hey, gotta deal with it. My point being is that with family considerations and so forth one has to be careful to an extent what one writes in a public forum BUT that does not stop one from posting. If sensitive stuff goes up by a newb, and you can't yet modify the post, that is why there are moderators here, to help with that stuff. Anyway, for me, I had a bit of an issue, which was based on fear, also possibly my ego, which had me concerned where I can post. I still struggle with that. I have some sensitive matters that I am bursting to share (and go back to "reason 2" I often feared that nobody would wanna hear my story anyway). Recently I was able to share some of these things with some of the elders of the fellowship, and I realize these matters are not so huge, and even if it were totally public, it wouldn't even be that big of a deal in the end.

"Reason 5 - wanting to keep predator alive"
I couldn't think of a suitable subtitle for this, but for me, I remember running into EE late in 2009, using a part of it it off and on at the beginning of last year, and saying, yeah, I gotta post my experiences, but then I thought after my separation, "if I start doing EE more, and posting my experiences, and posting more in general, well I may not have a chance to do a bit of predatorial feeding. if I start posting, I may be cautioned against this, and maybe I won't feel like doing this…and by the way, it really isn't feeding as they say, it is just mutual fun…" Great eh? I have to say when writing this that the predator can be quite repulsive, to say the least. Lessons were definitely learned, well, let's say some experiences were gained, and when I share them with network, they may turn into lessons. Anyway, more about that in another post.


These are just the top 5, and there may have been more, but I will post this now, as I have that program that will say "don't post it, just wait until you have thoroughly elucidated upon ALL possible reasons for lurking, you only have 5" - my ego likes admiration, it's great, "wow did you ever think of such wonderful reasons, I think you covered every reason in the book.." ok nuff said for now.


Jefferson
 
"The hardest thing is to see what is directly in front of you."
`Goethe


Thanks for this opportunity to step into the forum to talk about why newbies like me are so reluctant to talk. I KNOW it's "The Work", but it's also work. After my first introduction to ya'll, I decided it was better to read more, talk less. So "Boardlurker" is not exactly a term I'd ever call myself, but since it's here, I ought to just say YES, I suppose it's me too, and move beyond that. I've been reading threads and applying discernment to my life as I am able....I'm working at it to become more extraverted - hard for an introvert like myself.

After my initial cluster of awkward posts I was taken aback by what I felt was an "interrogation" a parsing of every line I would write.But it wasn't that at all, they were just questions. It was just my defensiveness throwing up a shield. The tag line of "Disturbance in the Field" just irked me. Right there I had a perceptual challenge I had to face. Was that me? Not being all that familiar with "Star Wars trilogy " I was confused. (Why did THAT bug me? Did they know already that I'm struggling with self-esteem? Was I pegged by the all-knowing C's as a annoyance, a hindrance, an intrusion ALREADY? Could that tag be changed by continuing, I asked myself?) So I just backed off and remained a diligent reader for quite a while. Every time I'd wish to write, I'd check posts and archives and see that someone else has said it before me. and very articulately at that.

On one hand, I CAN say that the benefits of listening are also a virtue, but it is probably slower learning than anyone needs. I see that. Then I was asked:why am I here? It was a valid question to ask why I'm here: if learning isn't directly involved in personal growth, than it's just incoming data collection. There was so much in my life needing changes, it's hard to even start to describe where and how. I was overwhelmed.

But upon reflection, over the following few days, weeks and months, I became aware that this defensiveness was my own making. I wanted to be liked - don't we all? - but what is that but childish neediness ,not deserving it by interaction. My fear of rejection. Getting beaten up as a kid. Being queer, different, an outsider has given me different challenges than most. I learned to handle it by not fighting except when it was important to. Openly gay and dealing with prejudice is not easy. It takes a courage most regular people just aren't even aware of.

But these forum questions were not at all hostile. I felt the kindness behind the words. I was reacting to something within myself. I admired the tone of conversation here - intelligent, inquisitive, skeptical, lighthearted at times, and analytical.... but my words of admiration looked obsequious, so I stopped myself from apologizing and saying thank you over and over... Questions are all we have to get something out in the open. I plan on participating more, regardless. I will. My goal is not approval but self-awareness. I knew I needed to change my Self, not worry about changing my "Disturbance' tag line. I'll accept that gladly, as someone said: Luke of Star Wars started out that way. It can stay as long as I can too.

My best friend said to me: accept criticism as an opportunity to examine oneself. Be grateful for the pain it takes to lose your ego.... Now to accept criticism was never my strongest attribute, but I am open and willing and here. I already have awareness of my deepest shortcomings. But it seems that without risk or courage there is no progress. I have a long way to go. Thanks, all. And good night.
 
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